The new Space Race?

[Ginyard]

Would anyone here not volunteer to go into space?

Gonna have to stick my hand in the air for that one. Adventure is good. I waltzed round the amazon for a year in search of that. But space?. Until I can see a nice juicy planet populated with sexy women who've lost their male population and is reachable in a week then I'm not interested. "Oh look, a dusty crater and some fucking moon rock. Only 200 generations till we get to sanctuary". Fuck off.

[Alberon]

A report from the Orlando Sentinel on how completely fucked up NASA's Project Constellation is.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-asecconstellation02040209apr02,0,3437916.story

Oh and as for wanting to go into space. Yes please!

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Some of us want to live long enough to see how Lost ends though.

Probably the only thing in existence likely to end in a worse way than Red Dwarf.

(dragging us semi back on topic)

[purlieu]

STOP TALKING ABOUT THE END OF RED DWARF I'M DEPRESSED ALREADY.

Go into space?  Nah, not really.  It's a bit black, then there's some rock, then you come back.  Other planets, galaxies and such - yes!  Everything else - no.

[Alberon]

The Guardian on the latest delays to hit NASA's Constellation programme. The Orion capsule has already been cut from carrying six people to orbit to four and now the Ares V heavy lifter is falling behind schedule, pushing the programme's moon landing from 2018 to 2020 at the earliest.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/apr/23/nasa-moon-launch-budget-delay

In short it looks like the same sort of budget cuts and compromises that turned the Space Shuttle from a truly reusable spacecraft into an expensive white elephant.

[mothman]

It's not like reducing the crew capacity from six to four is really going to save all that much money either, surely? Just make it less versatile.

[Alberon]

I think they've had a real problem getting the Ares I rocket to be able to lift the required weight into orbit. Dropping the crew capacity not only means the weight of two people, but all the support apparatus for them too. I've read that the design chosen allows them to switch easily to a six-person capsule at some point in the future, but whether that will ever happen is anyone's guess.

I've also seen some muttering about the reduction in testing that seems to be going on. The Ares 1-X launch will be in July (which will launch the real first stage of the rocket while the next three stages above will be dummies), but the Ares 1-Y (set for 2013) test might be abandoned under the new plan. Also Orion 3 might become the point the system is deemed to be fully operational rather than Orion 4.

[Alberon]

Some more updates.

NASA might be about to abandon plans for permenant moon bases to concentrate on Mars. While I want to see men land on Mars, I really think we need proper moon bases. If only to store all the world's nuclear waste (what can go wrong?).

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17052-nasa-may-abandon-plans-for-moon-base.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

A proper moonbase (ten years behind schedule I might add).


Meanwhile, the Russians are showing off. They want their Soyuz replacement to land using rockets rather than parachutes. Seems needlessly over-complicated to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8024590.stm

[MojoJojo]

Some more updates.

NASA might be about to abandon plans for permenant moon bases to concentrate on Mars. While I want to see men land on Mars, I really think we need proper moon bases. If only to store all the world's nuclear waste (what can go wrong?).

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17052-nasa-may-abandon-plans-for-moon-base.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

Why not just shoot it into the sun?  Man's age old dream - to nuke the fucking sun.

A proper moonbase (ten years behind schedule I might add).


Meanwhile, the Russians are showing off. They want their Soyuz replacement to land using rockets rather than parachutes. Seems needlessly over-complicated to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8024590.stm

[biggytitbo]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but well worth a read, the amazing story of space age hackers -
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1302/lost_in_space.html

[George Oscar Bluth II]

The lost cosmonauts give me the chills. The idea of drifting through space, completely helpless as you suffocate to death is terrifying.

[Serge]

Got quite excited seeing Neil Armstrong on TV yesterday. Buzz Aldrin will turn up for anything, but ol' Neil isn't quite so outgoing. Has anyone read 'Moondust'? After years of vaguely thinking that the moon landings might have been a conspiracy, that book finally convinced me that they weren't.

[_Hypnotoad_]

Cheers for that, will order from Amazon

I just bought Buzz Aldrins book, but my favourite Appollo related book is this, full of interviews and amazing insights from the Astronauts themselves. The vivid descriptions of the journey and on the moon itself make for compelling reding

[Serge]

Might have to look into that one myself!
I've got the 'In The Shadow Of The Moon' DVD, which covers a lot of the same ground as 'Moondust', but also features some breath-taking footage of the moon landings, but I really must get hold of a copy of 'For All Mankind' too.

[An tSaoi]

The problem with space is that while it's cool, there's fuck all there. Back in the day they thought there'd be bases on the Moon, and life on Mars, and we'd all be jetting about to have a chat with aliens every couple of hours. Instead it takes months or years to get to any interesting places, and when you do they're barren and useless.

Now deep sea exploration, that's where you find the really nifty stuff.

[boxofslice]

That trip to Mars might be getting closer after this earlier in the month. It's obviously the next step as while moons are ok, planets are where it's at.

[_Hypnotoad_]

NASA haave taken photos ofthe Apollo hardware left on the moon, truly stunning stuff. Frozen in time for 40 years.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/apollosites.html

[biggytitbo]

That looks uncannily like nothing. It's a bit like those photos where people point out faces or alien forts on the moon and there's nothing there, but from the other end of the spectrum.

[Blumf]

What NASA doesn't want you to know!!

[The Region Legion]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but well worth a read, the amazing story of space age hackers -
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1302/lost_in_space.html

That is absolutely amazing, thanks for that. Had never heard of them.

You've probably all seen this, but I only heard about it about a year ago and it blows me away just as much now.

On August 16, 1960 a guy called Joe Kittenger flew up in a balloon to 102,000 feet... and then jumped out of it. Luckily, he took a video camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Y0_iJrRl0

Footage from space there from before The Beatles existed. So Yuri Gagarin can fuck off.

[Pylon Man]

One thing that I find slightly disturbing about going to Mars is that several people, including Buzz Aldrin, have suggested it should be a one way trip. Who'd volunteer for that?

I think the Moon landings are the greatest human achievement to date, so I hope NASA gets back into gear, bloody massive disappointment they've been since 72. I don't know why it has to be diffenent countries competing against each other though, surely they'd get more done cooperating. Not that we'd contribute much since the UK is to space what BBC3 is to good television.

[Blumf]

Not that we'd contribute much since the UK is to space what BBC3 is to good television.

We do have a well regarded satellite production industry. It's mainly that the UK has sensibly (IMHO) decided not to waste time and money on manned space exploration. It just doesn't work, having to lug all that life support kit and supplies about when a robot can do work for much longer, for less money and little risk.

I'd rather see what meagre funds the UK devotes to science being put to more practical use, like ITER or renewable energy stuff. Let the robots handle space till we actually have something to do out there, there's a reason we haven't been back to the moon.

[JesusAndYourBush]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but well worth a read, the amazing story of space age hackers -
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1302/lost_in_space.html

I'm surprised they didn't link to the audio (unless I overlooked something), but you can hear some of the audio here.

[Serge]

One thing that I find slightly disturbing about going to Mars is that several people, including Buzz Aldrin, have suggested it should be a one way trip. Who'd volunteer for that?

Deluded misanthropists?

I became aware of the Kittinger footage when Boards Of Canada used it in their video for 'Dayvan Cowboy', which rather unexcitingly dribbles out into unrelated footage of a guy surfing at the end. But the Kittinger stuff is really freaky - I love it.

[Pylon Man]

We do have a well regarded satellite production industry. It's mainly that the UK has sensibly (IMHO) decided not to waste time and money on manned space exploration. It just doesn't work, having to lug all that life support kit and supplies about when a robot can do work for much longer, for less money and little risk.

But that's absolutely boring. People weren't captivated by the Moon landings because we could find out the chemical composition of moon rocks, but because actual people went there.

[Blumf]

But that's absolutely boring. People weren't captivated by the Moon landings because we could find out the chemical composition of moon rocks, but because actual people went there.

If you check up you'll see most people were bored of the moon landings by the time they were stopped. Hence why nobody wanted to front the huge costs to continue.

[Pylon Man]

Well I suppose I was a bit glib there. Probes sending back images from the furthest reaches of the Solar System is quite exciting to be honest, it's just it's nowhere near as much as exciting as sending humans.

[biggytitbo]

Vyger will be coming back to earth soon won't he?

[ThickAndCreamy]

I honestly think it's more exciting. The idea of going to any planets that have so far been found to be able to sustain life due to their distance from a star (there are now over 10 discovered I believe) is much more exciting than sending humans to a pointless expedition to mars. The idea of colonisation and terraforming is economically implausible for now and for hundreds, maybe thousands of years.

I'd much rather a probe visit a nearby galaxy and explore it in depth, it's both much more interesting and scientifically needed. Otherwise it's like fighting a war where you don't actually attempt to win, merely stage a set of show pieces to delight the nation you are fighting for.

[Melody Lee]

To me, what's especially interesting about future space exploration is the (possible!) ways we might actually be doing it. By that, I mean things like Arthur C. Clarke's idea of a 'Space Elevator' as a placeholder for something we haven't imagined yet. Perhaps thinking about how to get rockets off the ground and remain relatively cost effective is a dead-end?
Like the idea in the late 1800's that ocean liners would supposedly (as someone at the time worked out) be able to cross the atlantic in 7-8 hours by the 60's, if their speed increased exponentially... only that wasn't really feasible and at the time they knew it (friction would melt the ship's steel hull etc).
Turns out it was planes that were making trips in that sort of time by the 60's, so perhaps future leaps in space exploration are waiting for some means of travel we just haven't bothered to imagine yet? A rocket/nuclear propelled craft making an incredibly long journey to a nearby star would perhaps be overtaken by newer technology, though I don't like the sound of all the 'waiting around' implied by that possibility. I would want to see someone on Mars before I crumble to bits, at least that's do-able with the rockets etc, thought expensive... (like that should get in the way of us getting off this one planet and increasing our survival odds a bit).

(I'm nabbing a bit of info from a book for this post, but it stuck in my head... quite interesting).