Record fairs. Any point to them thesedays?

[holyzombiejesus]

Thanks!

[Pauline Walnuts]

There's a guy who drives over from Glasgow to the big car boot at Errol near Dundee (Scotland's largest I understand) who has tables of albums all around £20 a pop, but they're all bootlegs. Mostly coloured vinyl and pressed in Czech Republic (he says) it's interesting seeing all these albums by The Smiths, Pink Floyd, Nirvana etc on colours that were never intended to be pressed in, the audio quality won't be as good as originals of course.

Bootlegs as in audience live recording or a rip off an official album?

[monkfromhavana]

Discogs really fucked a lot of the enjoyment for me, previously you were rewarded for having deep knowledge/passion for particular genres/artists/scenes by being able to find bargains from sellers who weren't aware that it held a particular value amongst a certain section of music fans. Everyone won, the dweeb with deep knowledge got something 'underpriced' and the thrill of searching for something and finding a gem and the seller made their profit, plus the thrill of the unknown.

Whereas now with discogs that previously small slither of music fans who would be willing to pay a high price and so label it as rare/expensive when selling to them and them only instead dictate the price to a mass audience, and almost every shop, fair and charity shop around is consulting it and setting their own price based on it. It makes it feel a bit pointless unless you're in a really well curated shop that you go to for music discovery and being there in person has some added value, otherwise you're just spending ages rattling through bins only to find the exact same thing at the exact same price on discogs from the comfort of your own home.

This, especially when the tag they put on the sleeve of the record to give you an indication of what it sounds like is copied verbatim from the "Notes" section on Discogs.

[lazyhour]

This, especially when the tag they put on the sleeve of the record to give you an indication of what it sounds like is copied verbatim from the "Notes" section on Discogs.

Counterpoint: that's helpful and shows that the seller has spent some time and effort on their stock. Would you prefer just a pound sign and a price? Or would like the seller to listen to the entirety of all of their stock and write essays for you?

Sorry for sour attitude, I'm in a bad mood this morning.

[Head Gardener]

Bootlegs as in audience live recording or a rip off an official album?

both! copies of Ziggy Stardust album for example on orange vinyl & Smiths demos on blue vinyl, crackers

[Glebe]

[Sebastian Cobb]

Went to the one at QMU today and was quite disappointed, was mostly entirely stock of dad rock and prog, plus a load of expensive represses (sorry, I see no advantage to buying Leftism or Rhythm and Stealth for 35 quid when I've got them on cd).

Still came away with this for £3.



Worth it for

[lazyhour]

Leftfield aren't the best example, to be honest, as they're one of the few acts whose reissues are much, much cheaper than the originals. In general though, I totally agree with you.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Leftfield aren't the best example, to be honest, as they're one of the few acts whose reissues are much, much cheaper than the originals. In general though, I totally agree with you.

The reason I chose that (and there were other artists of similar vintage) is I can't see any point in ever wanting to get it on vinyl unless you did at the time.

Even if you half embrace the 'warmth' debate then that isn't happening with that sort of stuff.

If you're a DJ you've probably got a digital copy.

Who is this for?

[NattyDread 2]

The reason I chose that (and there were other artists of similar vintage) is I can't see any point in ever wanting to get it on vinyl unless you did at the time.

Even if you half embrace the 'warmth' debate then that isn't happening with that sort of stuff.

If you're a DJ you've probably got a digital copy.

Who is this for?

If you have a mostly vinyl based hi-fi setup then some of these reissues can be a godsend if the originals are going for silly money and you didn't pick them up back in the day.

Doubt I'd pay £35 for many records mind you, but if vinyl is what you're into and it's an album you love, you'll probably want it in your collection on that format if you've invested a bit in a turntable setup.

The sheer amount of stuff being reissued is pretty incredible though. Hard to see a demand for some of it but presumably it's there. So much for the pressing plant crises we were all hearing about. Can't be that bad, although the quality of a lot of stuff is going right down the pan.

These days if there's a new record I'm after, I'll usually resort to Amazon through gritted teeth just because the rate of defects is so high and the returns are so easy. I hate having to bother real record shops with returns.

[lazyhour]

Yep, plenty of music people don't have CD players these days - just a record player or digital streaming for albums they don't own.

[Sebastian Cobb]

If you have a mostly vinyl based hi-fi setup then some of these reissues can be a godsend if the originals are going for silly money and you didn't pick them up back in the day.

Doubt I'd pay £35 for many records mind you, but if vinyl is what you're into and it's an album you love, you'll probably want it in your collection on that format if you've invested a bit in a turntable setup.

I get your point, but to have a 'mostly vinyl setup' is pure zealotry.

I have an ancient quad system, nice deck and at this point probably more records than cd's.

But still no interest in buying that sort of album era on vinyl. It's pointless.

These modern represses are also often mastered quite poorly, even if they try their best. Most modern presses do. The elephant in the room is all the equipment is worn out, the best mastering engineers who could do black magic are deaf because they're ancient, and flimsy pressings of albums mastered by mediocre engineers in the 80's often sound better.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Oh at the place as well I overheard a guy haggle an old seller over a 7" single, £75.

"I it's from my personal collection, but I don't think I've played it"

"yeah I don't play any of my records, I just collect them"

Same as buying children's toys and not taking them out the wrappers.

[NattyDread 2]

I also get your point and completely agree about the poor quality of a lot of stuff. It doesn't apply to everything though. Recently heard a repress of that Kruder and Dorfmeister record at a mates which very nearly tore me a new one. There are a fair few releases which knock the originals out the park. Super Furries Rings Around The World was famously shite sounding and going for hundreds before the tremendous sounding repress.

I don't agree that a vinyl based setup is pure zealotry though. Surely it just depends on how many records you have.
I've slimmed my collection down a bit but there's still around 2000. I probably have fewer than 150 cds. There are 3 systems in the house. Only one has a cd player and we have an alexa in the kitchen. Our internet is shite so kitchen listening is about our limit for streaming. I'd be mad to not base any setup around the vinyl.

I know 2000 is quite a few records but I think the same would hold true scaling it down.

[lazyhour]

Same as buying children's toys and not taking them out the wrappers.

It's exactly the same, and it's not what I'd do, but what's the harm?

[Sebastian Cobb]

It's exactly the same, and it's not what I'd do, but what's the harm?

There's no harm at all but I get a bit glum, toys are made to be played with and records are made to be played.

I've got a few records that are worth a few bob, never through any shrewdness on my part, but I still listen to them.

[NattyDread 2]

It's exactly the same, and it's not what I'd do, but what's the harm?

Any music fan would likely see this as a bit daft. Records are nice objects but I can't imagine buying one to never play.
It does mean that those records will possibly appear completely immaculate in some charity shop one day.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I don't agree that a vinyl based setup is pure zealotry though. Surely it just depends on how many records you have.
I've slimmed my collection down a bit but there's still around 2000. I probably have fewer than 150 cds. There are 3 systems in the house. Only one has a cd player and we have an alexa in the kitchen. Our internet is shite so kitchen listening is about our limit for streaming. I'd be mad to not base any setup around the vinyl.

You do you and all that but I wouldn't call you a zealot. If you allow CDs and streaming you're not.

I'm thinking more of audiophiles who steadfastly refused to entertain CDs to begin with.

The best one of those I met had several grand of ekectrocompaniet amp, another few of mc preamp, several grand of speaker, then smeared their mucky mitts all over the records and left them flat on the doghaird carpet.

All better than 44.1/16 digital though.

[NattyDread 2]

The best one of those I met had several grand of ekectrocompaniet amp, another few of mc preamp, several grand of speaker, then smeared their mucky mitts all over the records and left them flat on the doghaird carpet.

Oh aye. It's incredible how many 'audiophiles' on youtube who love showing off their stuff don't even know how to take a record out of the sleeve and play it without sticking their hands all over it. Does my nut in.

[Sebastian Cobb]

The guy above refused to allow a cd player even be connected to his system.

He got very upset when he realised my dad had a thorens deck and sme arm connected to a mediocre Sony amp. It also had a (shock horror) Philips CD-104 near it. Plague material, probably.

[NattyDread 2]

The guy above refused to allow a cd player even be connected to his system.

He got very upset when he realised my dad had a thorens deck and sme arm connected to a mediocre Sony amp. It also had a (shock horror) Philips CD-104 near it. Plague material, probably.

Can relate. My setups are very similar but nowt as good as an SME arm on my Thorens (Rega RB250). How mediocre was the amp? I have a mid-range 70s Sony in one room. On paper it's shite compared to modern amps, but it sounds superb, especially with vinyl and looks the absolute tits too.
I bet that Philips sounded great.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

I have defo known people that considered owning an album on cd as not counting

All cunts too

Sorry if this offends

[dontpaintyourteeth]

anything from after like 1980 or something is going to sound better on cd anyway. downvote me all you like!!!!

[Sebastian Cobb]

And a lot of those flimsy thin 80's pressings are still mastered better than modern 180g efforts.

[lazyhour]

Counterpoint: a lot of them aren't. Have you heard the original Hounds Of Love? Or the original 3 Feet High & Rising? Anything other than a stunningly near mint copy will sound pretty rubbish.

[lazyhour]

(though I agree with the general point that modern record manufacture is a bit of a joke)

[kngen]

And a lot of those flimsy thin 80's pressings are still mastered better than modern 180g efforts.

And a lot of those 180g presses are done in the Czech republic where hairy caterpillar auto-mastering is the order of the day. Pretty depressing to pay 100 quid for one of Rhino's Super Deluxe box sets and find out they were pressed at CZ. That's why I always look for original presses with a TML stamp because ... (Editor's note: the rest of this post boomeranged back to the Steve Hoffman forum, where it rightfully belongs.)

[Sebastian Cobb]

I'm not sure why they need to master new pressings beyond marketing, I'm sure for a lot of these they could make new stamps from the existing master plates.

When you say 'auto mastering' does that just mean they've effectively just shoved it through the RIAA curve?

[kngen]

I'm not sure why they need to master new pressings beyond marketing, I'm sure for a lot of these they could make new stamps from the existing master plates.

I don't really know what the process with Rhino stuff is - I would hope they pay enough to get them mastered by a human. And a lot of the material is unreleased and on vinyl for the first time, so there would be some mastering required somewhere along the chain. I've heard that Back in Black (who were the first big reissue label to use CZ, as far as I know) used the CD versions as the source for the straight-up reissues, which isn't great. Maybe they've improved their process now, but that put me off them for life.

I'd be happy to be proven otherwise, but I'm fairly sure the big US labels aren't sending their stampers over to the Czech republic for that bunch of cowboys to use.

When you say 'auto mastering' does that just mean they've effectively just shoved it through the RIAA curve?

Pretty much, but with little regard to the dynamic range, so old recordings will be subject to modern sound compression trends, too, and with little-to-no oversight. Maybe the bigger labels will get more of a say in the mastering process, but that's definitely par for the course for smaller indies. Having had records pressed both in the Czech Republic and - luxury of luxuries - US plants like Erica, the difference can be astounding.

[Head Gardener]

I've booked a stall for the Reading fair at the University on March 17th, LP's a tenner & singles 2 for a fiver, all good stuff aye.