Hillsborough

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

I'm thinking in the couple of years after Hillsborough. By 1992 there was nowhere near the same levels of hooliganism than, say, 1985.

hmmm, when did all seater stadia start to become commonplace? that was the tipping point from memory, created a completely different atmosphere in the stadium

you could no longer assemble large groups of hoolis together at that point

[doppelkorn]

But a lot of people who were formerly involved in the fringes of violence still go, my anecdotal evidence would suggest.

[monkfromhavana]

We had the first all-seater stadium in England in the early 1980s. They just used to rip out the chairs and throw them at each other.

The fences coming down, the fans being treated better, a natural ebb, MDMA, and better stadia all played their part.

[MojoJojo]

hmmm, when did all seater stadia start to become commonplace? that was the tipping point from memory, created a completely different atmosphere in the stadium

I think it became law after Hillsborough.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

I don't buy that MDMA explanation at all

I stand by my assertion, you are right people did tear up chairs and throw them at each other in the death throws of hooliganism

but it died out when terraces disappeared, which they started to do at a faster pace after the Taylor report

a whole new atmosphere was created at football then, and it just became impossible to assemble large groups of likeminded thugs

we struggled for years at QPR to get an atmosphere going because the people who used to stroll in pissed a 2.55pm to the same spot every week were suddenly split all over the ground

[monkfromhavana]

The MDMA effect is one put forward by a lot of ex-hooligans, as many of them got involved in the rave scene in the late 1980's. Breaking down barriers (mental. not physical),dancing in clubs/raves on each others turf etc etc etc.

You still had terraces in a lot of grounds (not necessarily Premier Lague grounds) until well into the 1990's, with no incidences of major hooligan activity.

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Indeed. Hooligans rarely go to the games any more - they contact each other to arrange the trouble well away from the ground so they are less likely to be interrupted. They even have a kind of code of conduct: "scarf boys" (genuine supporters who are there purely for the game) are out of bounds. They only really want to ruck with those definitely up for it. That's how it was explained to me by one of the "top boys" in the West Ham crew, anyway.

This is true. As someone too young to have gone to football pre-Premier League (my first game was in 1992, in fact) it seems amazing that it was ever any different.

The whole hooligan culture has completely changed to the point that the match is purely incidental, the fixture list just tells you which firm will be facing which.

Just this season we cancelled a friendly with Leicester because of intelligence of planned hooligan activity, but the hooligans turned up in the city centre and had a ruck anyway. A few years ago Hull hooligans smashed up a city centre hotel because the police were about to escort them to the game and they didn't want to go.

[massive bereavement]

I used to go to football fairly regularly in the 1980's and have to admit that I really do miss the nasty atmosphere. Teams used to come out separately before kick-off in those days, the sight of the opponents taking to the field would be greeted with a chorus of "Who the fuckin' hell are you?" and the full-on hatred would just carry on from there. When the crowd got into a proper song, the players would pass the ball back to the keeper (who could pick it up in those days) and keep doing that until the song died down so that all the focus would be on the fans singing. The skirmishes in the stands were another entertaining distraction when there was a bit of a lull in play.

I never got involved in the physical stuff myself as I was far too young and, as an agoraphobic and the nervous type, would always try to take up a place at the very back of the terrace pressed up against the wall next to some old blokes, from where I could see what everybody was doing in front of me. I couldn't handle being in the middle of the crowd, though it was quite an experience to be swept off your feet and carried forward 20 meters and then back again when a goal was scored.

Just for that 90 minutes, every once in a while, it was such a glorious rush to be a part of something so horribly aggressive and male. There's really been no substitute for that since. I miss it terribly.

[fat_abbott]

Another day, another apology, Sir Lord and Master Irvine Patnick, tries to weasel out of his role by saying sorry. Sometimes my naivety reaches unprecedented levels, here was me thinking he must have been dead as he has had 23 years and numerous other enquiries to put the record straight, but it takes him being named directly to make him "sorry".

The only sorry he is, is sorry he got caught out. Fucking scum.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

I used to go to football fairly regularly in the 1980's and have to admit that I really do miss the nasty atmosphere. Teams used to come out separately before kick-off in those days, the sight of the opponents taking to the field would be greeted with a chorus of "Who the fuckin' hell are you?" and the full-on hatred would just carry on from there. When the crowd got into a proper song, the players would pass the ball back to the keeper (who could pick it up in those days) and keep doing that until the song died down so that all the focus would be on the fans singing. The skirmishes in the stands were another entertaining distraction when there was a bit of a lull in play.

I never got involved in the physical stuff myself as I was far too young and, as an agoraphobic and the nervous type, would always try to take up a place at the very back of the terrace pressed up against the wall next to some old blokes, from where I could see what everybody was doing in front of me. I couldn't handle being in the middle of the crowd, though it was quite an experience to be swept off your feet and carried forward 20 meters and then back again when a goal was scored.

Just for that 90 minutes, every once in a while, it was such a glorious rush to be a part of something so horribly aggressive and male. There's really been no substitute for that since. I miss it terribly.

It's a difficult thing to rationalize in a thread like this, but I agree, football is not the same and it's worse for it

It's something I've gone on about lots, but it's just so different from a spectating point of view. It's been completely sterilized, and some would say that's a good thing as it happened in part because of things such as Hillsborough, meaning such tragedies are incredibly unlikely to happen again. But it's lost it's soul along the way

It was quite something to be part of IMO, it was always 3pm on a Saturday, it was special because there was no saturation of live coverage, there was no over-use of the national stadium so FA Cup felt special, there were terraces, a real edge to proceedings, no mascots, no goal music, no families with flags, no lining up like an international to show how nice we all are, no gazillionaire superstars throwing tantrums. It was always a unique experience to spill onto the terrace half cut at 2.55 and start the build-up, bit of banter with the terrace at the other end.......jumpers for goalposts. We used to drink in the community centre in the heart of the white city estate. The walk to the ground was always past the away end and was always exhilerating.

I miss it too, and am now a fully paid up member of the Sky armchair crowd.

[monkfromhavana]

Terraces in themselves aren't inherently dangerous. German clubs manage to have 20,000 fans on their standing terraces with no threats of crushes. Clubs could get more people in and (theoretically) lower the prices. As long as their are no fences, and there is a maximum number of people to be let in, it would work fine.

We still stand anyway, regardless of seating. Sky murdered football.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

There has been a Safe Standing movement for some time now, but it's obviously an emotive subject in this country

Not sure how far they ever got. I guess the lack of terraces in the Premier League is the best indicator

Not sure a sterilised version would really be that good anyway. The terrace at QPR was only shallow, but it still felt dangerous/exciting. Being packed in for a big match with the inevitable surge to the front when a goal was scored was quite something. Fuck knows what it must've been like at Maine Road or on the Kop

[Unfundibulum]

 Norman Bettison apologising for yesterdays apology (scroll down). Very 'the Thick of It' (but not as funny as it used to be)

http://www.itv.com/news/2012-09-14/itv-news-exclusive-hillsborough-police-chief-not-ashamed/

Look out for the bit where he says there wasn't a black ops unit and he wasn't part of it. hmmm. Looks like someone gave him the treatment last night. Check out the body language. Never seen him look so worried. Wonder why?

[spock rogers]

That Bettison interview is amazing. The imbecile looks like an android that's malfunctioning in the middle of an interrogation. I half expected him to start vomiting milk.

[Unfundibulum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R4oiBxXfNE&feature=youtu.be

better here though

[weirdbeard]

Hey, here's the Match of the Day that went out that night in '89.  Dishy Des deals with it well, nowadays you'd have a fucking Adele instrumental over half of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypE5TG2UPNk

[babyshambler]

I was lucky enough to stand on the Elland Road Kop a few times before they ruined it with seating at the end of the '93/'94 season. Now, even when it's full and in good voice, it's not the same. If you want the choice to stand at games, please consider signing this petition on the football supporters' federation website: http://www.fsf.org.uk/petitions/safestanding.php

[baptist]

You have to admire the Bastard's chutzpah: "It wasn't my fault I printed a load of fucking lies. Honest!"

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R4oiBxXfNE&feature=youtu.be

better here though

Isn't that bloke trespassing?