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Forums => Deeper Into Movies => Topic started by: Alberon on February 10, 2015, 01:16:11 PM

Title: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Alberon on February 10, 2015, 01:16:11 PM
It's not too much of a surprise this one, but after Amazing Spider-Man 2 was not a big a success as hoped Sony has done a deal with Marvel that will see the jizz-handed superhero making his way to the MCU.

QuoteUnder the terms of a deal struck by Sony Pictures and Marvel Studios, a new Spider-Man will debut in a thus-far unspecified movie within the Marvel cinematic universe. After that, Sony will release the next installment in its own Spider-Man series.

Furthermore, Sony's next Spider-Man movie now has an official release date - July 28th 2017.

Lest you be in any doubt that this is an about turn for the screen adventures of Spider-Man, the official press statement declares that "together, [Marvel and Sony] will collaborate on a new creative direction for the web slinger". That sounds to us like the plans that Sony had been working on for its own Spider-Man movie universe have been set aside.

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/spider-man/34028/confirmed-spider-man-heading-to-marvel-cinematic-universe

What this suggests is the various Spider-Man spin-off movies (Sinister Six and Venom) have probably been canned, at least in the immediate future.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 01:21:34 PM
See, what I'd have done in Sony's shoes is make both 'The Amazing Spider-Man' films good rather than quite weak.  It was their call though.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Milverton on February 10, 2015, 03:08:46 PM
That's good news, innit?

We just need the new FF movie be a disaster now. Johnny Storm isn't black. He's either white or shades of red and orange. Whatever next? Thor with tits?
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: biggytitbo on February 10, 2015, 04:29:20 PM
(http://images.halloweencostumes.com/products/3008/1-1/kids-deluxe-muscle-spiderman-costume.jpg)
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Kelvin on February 10, 2015, 04:35:50 PM
Even that doesn't hide your bald head.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: MuteBanana on February 10, 2015, 04:53:03 PM
He'll look stupid walking around with the rest of them in that mask.

'I can't take it off because I need to work. Bills don't pay themselves you know.'

Loser.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: checkoutgirl on February 10, 2015, 04:54:10 PM
But Spiderm'n is a Marvel thing. Why is it news that Marvel owns a Marvel thing? Why is this even news? I'll illegally download the film when it comes out and not a minute before.

Spiderman 2 with Alfred Molina remains the only Spiderm'n film I really enjoyed and I can't see that changing in the next million years or so. I think we are given too much information about films these days. Shit like this used to be done behind closed doors and now they announce it to the world. I'm not sick of it or anything but it's a bit tedious.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 05:07:16 PM
Marvel didn't own the film rights to Spiderman so he couldn't appear in any of their films. Same with the X-Men. This has paved the way for Spidey to join the Avengers
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Tiny Poster on February 10, 2015, 05:07:47 PM
The film rights to Spider-Man were owned by a different studio to the one that does the Avengers. Now they can exist in the same shared cinematic universe, due to a deal.


There, not so hard.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 05:10:53 PM
Keep up
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:14:34 PM
Quote from: checkoutgirl on February 10, 2015, 04:54:10 PM
Spiderman 2 with Alfred Molina remains the only Spiderm'n film I really enjoyed

There was a good one in the 70s where Spider-Man mostly beat up Kung fu Masters, and the main villain was a bloke who hypnotised people with a weird noise that made them go up onto roofs.  Peter Parker was about 45 years old in it, and his Spider-Man costume was just some baggy pyjamas.  The film ended with Peter Parker saying the line "I believe!" and then grinning and walking off so you could see his arse in his tight trousers for the whole time it took until the credits had ended, which was ages.

I think it wasn't actually a film so much as a double-episode pilot thing, but it still counts.  Basically that and the film with Alfred Molina are the best ones so far I reckon.


Edit:  here's that 1970s one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uRLgeEepzg
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Tiny Poster on February 10, 2015, 05:14:55 PM
Wonder if it'll be Miles Morales this time?
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Spiteface on February 10, 2015, 05:17:19 PM
Screw that, gimme Takuya Yamashiro!

(http://tokusatsu.rangercentral.com/database/1978_spider-man/images/sm-hr-takuya.jpg)

(http://www.lasertimepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/leo1-e1276568986859.jpg)
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 05:18:01 PM
I just don't think any of the films have got the essence of the character right. Like or loathe the 'proper' Marvel films, at least the people making them seem to know their characters and the films are based around them, even if they often descend into the same sort of ending
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:18:28 PM
Quote from: Tiny Poster on February 10, 2015, 05:07:47 PM
The film rights to Spider-Man were owned by a different studio to the one that does the Avengers. Now they can exist in the same shared cinematic universe, due to a deal.


There, not so hard.

Okay so I presume the Avengers are really brilliant and well worth having in a film, great.

How will all of this make the next Spider-Man film better than when the seeds for some Sinister Six stuff was being hurried through the plot of The Amazing Spider-Man 2?

One way or another it always seems like the priority is to shove in loads of super villains or super comrades rather than simply get the knack of making a decent standalone Spider-Man film or three.


Also it seems that the release date for the next Spider-Man film is mid 2017, yet aren't they planning to shit out an MCU film featuring Spider-Man before that?  I'm confused.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 05:28:41 PM
I imagine he will be a small part of a MCU film before the new Spiderman film. If Marvel are making the new film it means they might have a better grasp of the character. If not it may not make much difference
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:30:43 PM
I hope the Spider-Man 2017 film is a new origin story.  That would be brilliant.


Quote from: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 05:28:41 PM
If Marvel are making the new film it means they might have a better grasp of the character. If not it may not make much difference

Apparently Sony will be making it after Marvel have done their MCU one.  I'd hope Marvel have an active part in Spider-Man 2017, though, and they're not merely giving Sony a better springboard than the Sinister Six stuff would have been.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: biggytitbo on February 10, 2015, 05:31:53 PM
Hopefully recasting Andrew Garfield will finally give Nicholas Lyndhurst the opportunity to play the role he was born for.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Tiny Poster on February 10, 2015, 05:34:31 PM
Rumour is that he'll appear in the next Captain America film, and then have his own solo film.


Sony are still going ahead with that Sinister Six thing, apparently, but they're getting rid of Garfield. So I'm not sure if the Amazing films will be junked in favour of a reboot; I'd be surprised if Marvel bothered to do another entire film devoted to his origin (unless they do Morales instead).
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:35:57 PM
Oh yeah because Garfield was definitely the problem with the Amazing Spider-Man films.  Well done Sony.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Tiny Poster on February 10, 2015, 05:37:14 PM
Quote from: Spiteface on February 10, 2015, 05:17:19 PM
Screw that, gimme Takuya Yamashiro!

(http://tokusatsu.rangercentral.com/database/1978_spider-man/images/sm-hr-takuya.jpg)

(http://www.lasertimepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/leo1-e1276568986859.jpg)


He's recently appeared in the comics, along with pretty much every other version of Spidey conceived:


(http://cdn1.sciencefiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Amazing-Spider-Man-12-art.jpg)
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 05:42:24 PM
Quote from: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:35:57 PM
Oh yeah because Garfield was definitely the problem with the Amazing Spider-Man films.  Well done Sony.

Yeah. I think Garfield was the best part of the new ones, and a much better fit for the character than Maguire
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Mango Chimes on February 10, 2015, 05:48:48 PM
Leopard On? Leo Pardon?
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Spiteface on February 10, 2015, 05:51:53 PM
Leopardon. All one word.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 05:54:56 PM
Le opar don, boss of the french opar gang
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:58:10 PM
Quote from: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 05:54:56 PM
Le opar don, boss of the french opar gang

Not as good as the Italian gang of it.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Tiny Poster on February 10, 2015, 06:04:43 PM
Quote from: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:35:57 PM
Oh yeah because Garfield was definitely the problem with the Amazing Spider-Man films.  Well done Sony.

I'm assuming it's partly because Marvel will want a teenage superhero in their line-up (the rest of them are all 20-50 something), and good as Garfield was, he can't really play a high-schooler while he's in his mid-30s.

The high-school thing is pretty vital to the character's arc, too.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: phantom_power on February 10, 2015, 06:22:10 PM
Good point
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: biggytitbo on February 10, 2015, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: Tiny Poster on February 10, 2015, 05:34:31 PM
Rumour is that he'll appear in the next Captain America film, and then have his own solo film.


What, Nicholas Lyndhurst?
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 07:07:58 PM
Nicholas Lyndhurst looked like a pensioner when he was 8 years old, and has continued to look like that.  Marvel-Sony have made the terrible mistake of thinking that his unaging visage must be an indication that he appears youthful and would therefore befit the high-school Peter Parker, but he does not and would not that.

They will never get Spider-Man right, the flaming idiots.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: CaledonianGonzo on February 11, 2015, 07:38:36 AM
Quote from: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:35:57 PM
Oh yeah because Garfield was definitely the problem with the Amazing Spider-Man films.  Well done Sony.

He wasn't the worst thing about the new films, but neither was he so perfect a fit for the role that he's irreplacable.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Replies From View on February 11, 2015, 08:13:23 AM
I'm just surprised that they couldn't muster a decent single trilogy with Garfield.  It seemed for the first film of the reboot that they had some kind of plan worked out for where his story might go, but clearly by the second film they'd already lost momentum, and now they effectively just want to start again with Peter Parker back in high-school rather than college.  I'd have thought the reboot would have been the opportunity to get everything right in the first place.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: biggytitbo on February 11, 2015, 08:35:02 AM
More of this in the new film please -

(http://digthatbox.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/TOYS/21_Spider-Man_Sports_Figures.jpg)
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: checkoutgirl on February 11, 2015, 09:36:57 AM
Quote from: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:14:34 PM
There was a good one in the 70s where Spider-Man mostly beat up Kung fu Masters, and the main villain was a bloke who hypnotised people with a weird noise that made them go up onto roofs.  Peter Parker was about 45 years old in it, and his Spider-Man costume was just some baggy pyjamas.  The film ended with Peter Parker saying the line "I believe!" and then grinning and walking off so you could see his arse in his tight trousers for the whole time it took until the credits had ended, which was ages.

I'll definitely be having a look at that, it sounds like a lot of fun.

That reminds me of the 1970s film adaptation of Captain America. If I remember correctly he was just some Flash Gordon looking bloke with blond hair whizzing around on a motorbike with a shit plastic shield. I don't remember much about it but I seem to recall the denouement being in an oil refinery or steel works like so many action films are. I mean, look at the state of that.

(http://www.pium-pium.com/wp-content/uploads/captainamerica1979movie.jpg)

For more cheesy Marvel based cheap action you should check out Fantastic Four from the 1990s. Classic stuff.

(http://content9.flixster.com/site/10/24/32/10243271_ori.jpg)
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Alberon on February 11, 2015, 11:08:53 AM
That Fantastic Four film was produced by Roger Corman for about a $1m and most people think it was never intended for release, but purely to keep the rights to the licence.

Which makes me want to see it much much more than any of the other Fantastic Four films that have been made or are in production.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Spiteface on February 11, 2015, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Replies From View on February 10, 2015, 05:14:34 PM
There was a good one in the 70s where Spider-Man mostly beat up Kung fu Masters, and the main villain was a bloke who hypnotised people with a weird noise that made them go up onto roofs.  Peter Parker was about 45 years old in it, and his Spider-Man costume was just some baggy pyjamas.  The film ended with Peter Parker saying the line "I believe!" and then grinning and walking off so you could see his arse in his tight trousers for the whole time it took until the credits had ended, which was ages.

I think it wasn't actually a film so much as a double-episode pilot thing, but it still counts.  Basically that and the film with Alfred Molina are the best ones so far I reckon.


Edit:  here's that 1970s one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uRLgeEepzg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uRLgeEepzg)

The TV series of that had a funky as hell theme song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbG9SKN7bBA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbG9SKN7bBA)

Sounds like they were told it was for a Blaxploitation film that got canned so they stuck it into Spider-Man.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Bad Ambassador on February 11, 2015, 11:58:40 AM
I've seen it - there are loads of bootlegs floating around, so it's not difficult to get hold of.

It's a lot more entertaining that the two "real" films, and looks more expensive that just $1m, thanks to Corman's ability to stretch  a budget.

My favourite bit was the final shot, of Reed Richards' big long pipe-cleaner arm waving through the sunroof of a limousine.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Mango Chimes on February 11, 2015, 12:03:55 PM
The high school thing's a real problem with a live-action, franchised Spider-Man.  Unless you really commit to Harry Pottering a load of films in quick succession, he's too old in the space of a couple of outings.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Ignatius_S on February 11, 2015, 12:25:48 PM
It was being mooted a few months ago that this would happen (and remember it being touched upon in a superhero thread discussion). At that time, I felt – and still do – is that Sony wouldn't sign away total rights and we would still see Spiderman in Marvel and Sony films.

Here's some of a Variety article looking at the deal:

Quote....Marvel Studios won't pay Sony Pictures for the rights to put Spider-Man in "Captain America: Civil War," the "Avengers" franchise or its other superhero films, as part of its new partnership with the studio, according to sources with knowledge of the deal. At the same time, Marvel won't receive a cut of the box office for any of Sony's films that feature Spider-Man. Sony won't receive a percentage of the revenue Disney makes from Marvel's films that have Spider-Man, either.

There may be some opportunities for Marvel to benefit financially from the Sony films, with payments tied to certain box office milestones. The financial relationship is likened by sources to the kind of compensation structure a producer would receive.

Marvel had originally wanted to buy back Spider-Man from Sony. But its resulting partnership, which was in the works since October, is just that — an arrangement that enables both Sony and Marvel to mutually benefit at the box office by having Spider-Man appear in their movies.

The deal actually benefits both sides significantly.

Sony needed to breathe life into its "Spider-Man" franchise; by lending its character to Marvel, it has a way to generate more exposure for its bigscreen hero. Doing so also creates some serious goodwill among Spider-Man fans, who have wanted to see the character become part of the Avengers.

Marvel now gets access to one of the comicbook company's most popular characters — it already controlled the rights for TV, merchandise and other platforms, but the holy grail for Disney has lately been film, where it has been able to launch franchises that impact the bottom line of all of its various divisions.

Character crossovers across studio films are virtually unheard of and have been considered too cost prohibitive in the past. They're so rare that Marvel and Fox cast different actors to play Quicksilver in "The Avengers: Age of Ultron" and "X-Men: Days of Future Past."

But with Sony looking for a creative way to put a spotlight on its franchise, and Marvel so eager to get its hands on Spidey, Hollywood actually figured out a way to work together for once....

The studio is still moving forward with the Spider-Man villain-centric "Sinister Six," and "Venom" spinoff, as well as a film that features female characters in the "Spider-Man" universe. "The Amazing Spider-Man 3″ has been cancelled. While Marvel's Kevin Feige is involved with Sony's new "Spider-Man" films, he is currently not expected to be creatively involved with the spinoffs, sources say.
http://variety.com/2015/film/news/details-spider-man-appear-in-sony-and-marvel-movies-1201429039/

Pretty sure that when Disney bought Marvel, it was very keen to get Spiderman in the films – would have been surprised if Sony would have relinquished all rights but it was only a matter of time before there was some kind of deal.

Quote from: Mango Chimes on February 11, 2015, 12:03:55 PM
The high school thing's a real problem with a live-action, franchised Spider-Man.  Unless you really commit to Harry Pottering a load of films in quick succession, he's too old in the space of a couple of outings.

Yeah, that's a good point about that kind of setting.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Alberon on February 11, 2015, 12:41:04 PM
But presumably Marvel must have some creative input into the Sony Spider-Man films They wouldn't just let them do anything that might potentially harm the bloated cash cow that is the MCU.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Tiny Poster on February 11, 2015, 12:44:48 PM
If Kevin Feige is producing them, having more control than the clueless Avi Arad, then they have a strong chance of improving significantly.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Ignatius_S on February 11, 2015, 12:59:11 PM
Quote from: Alberon on February 11, 2015, 12:41:04 PM
But presumably Marvel must have some creative input into the Sony Spider-Man films They wouldn't just let them do anything that might potentially harm the bloated cash cow that is the MCU.

There will be creative input – the next Spiderman film, I believe is being produced by the head of Marvel Cinema and his team. This makes sense, rather than being a necessity.

With what you said, I think the other way round would be better - Sony has the rights, not Marvel; it's not up to the latter (or rather Disney) to dictate what Sony can or can't do. Both parties have something to gain by this deal and if Sony did do something, for instance, to damage the Spiderman brand, it's shooting itself in the foot. I don't think Marvel have too much to worry about there, but there are going to be clear benefits working together to maximise profits make the best damned films possible.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Don_Preston on February 11, 2015, 01:00:24 PM
Quote from: Spiteface on February 10, 2015, 05:17:19 PM
Screw that, gimme Takuya Yamashiro!

(http://tokusatsu.rangercentral.com/database/1978_spider-man/images/sm-hr-takuya.jpg)

(http://www.lasertimepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/leo1-e1276568986859.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG-xuLDhXLU&list=PLU5_9iBqQdzbz_E1C66M1Cbyhf1pKZqr6#t=935

This van chase scene with Samson must be included.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Ignatius_S on February 11, 2015, 01:02:06 PM
Quote from: Tiny Poster on February 11, 2015, 12:44:48 PM
If Kevin Feige is producing them, having more control than the clueless Avi Arad, then they have a strong chance of improving significantly.

Yup, I would certainly go along with that.
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: greenman on February 11, 2015, 01:42:29 PM
Rather than going black maybe Italian?

http://vimeo.com/42254051
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Leo2112 on February 11, 2015, 11:17:09 PM
Quote from: checkoutgirl on February 11, 2015, 09:36:57 AM
For more cheesy Marvel based cheap action you should check out Fantastic Four from the 1990s. Classic stuff.
(http://content9.flixster.com/site/10/24/32/10243271_ori.jpg)


It will be difficult for any rebooted FF to ever better this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPcpD07LzGU
Title: Re: Spider-Man absorbed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Post by: Delete Delete Delete on February 12, 2015, 12:19:43 AM
Quote from: Leo2112 on February 11, 2015, 11:17:09 PM

It will be difficult for any rebooted FF to ever better this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPcpD07LzGU
Big fan of Roger Cormans work, directed or produced. I've been collecting the Us releases of Roger Cormans cult classics and have yet to be disappointed. If your into B-movies and low budget movies he is the undisputed king. There is no Genre he won't milk. Looking at my shelf you have Rock N roll high school, futuristic death Race, Star Wars Rip offs, Jaws Rip Offs, Alien rip offs, Chase movies, Gangster movies, sword and sorcery, classic horror. This is one of my favorite Corman related clips.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTmWsD-p98