The Sopranos prequel - The Many Saints Of Newark

[Vitalstatistix]

Well it's taken me nearly 10 years but I finally got around to watching 'Not Fade Away'. It was... fine!?

Some nice lines but could've done with a bit more narrative thrust and weirdness. Also, the main bloke's face was annoying which was a bit of a blocker for me. 

[Waking Life]

There's no such thing as a decent prequel film. Godfather 2 worked, but that was only a half-prequel.

Fire Walk With Me does a good job, but obviously a very different tone. The intrigue of that is baked in to the premise of the main show. Temple of Doom too, but prequel element irrelevant.

I think it can work if it dispenses with most of the foreshadowing, which can be feel quite cheap. It also needs to work as a good standalone story, rather than purely a  bildungsroman 'origin' story. Otherwise it ends up being clichéd with the retrofitted foreshadowing.

[lb99]

Fire Walk With Me does a good job, but obviously a very different tone. The intrigue of that is baked in to the premise of the main show. Temple of Doom too, but prequel element irrelevant.

I think it can work if it dispenses with most of the foreshadowing, which can be feel quite cheap. It also needs to work as a good standalone story, rather than purely a  bildungsroman 'origin' story. Otherwise it ends up being clichéd with the retrofitted foreshadowing.

I don't think Temple of Doom is regarded as a decent film, and I quite liked Fire Walk With Me but again nowhere near as good as the series.

[Wet Blanket]

Just seen this and am firmly in the 'meh' camp. It has its moments as a fairly generic gangster film but it's not The Sopranos. Some effective cameo casting - Big Pussy, Uncle Jr, some awful - Silvio... I thought the relentless soundtrack was pretty irritating. The voiceover was completely surplus to requirements, I wonder if it was shoehorned in at the last minute, and is it just me or did it sound like it was recorded in WhatsApp voice note quality?

Two gabagools outta five.

[Waking Life]

I don't think Temple of Doom is regarded as a decent film, and I quite liked Fire Walk With Me but again nowhere near as good as the series.

I would disagree on both counts there (in particular, Fire Walk With Me post-Season 2 is a remarkable about turn), but that wasn't really my point. They are examples of prequels that avoid the typical trappings or serving as a 'knowing' prologue, which is why prequels for me are usually poor. As opposed to individual / subjective judgements on the film quality, where the fact that it's a prequel is neither here nor there.

[non capisco]

On my last viewing of Raiders I realised when Indy says to Marcus near the start "Oh, Marcus, I don't believe in magic, a lot of superstitious hocus pocus" this is coming from a man who's already been brainwashed into following the will of Kali Ma the goddess of death after drinking some blood out of a skull. He's quite the stubborn article, Indiana Jones.

[Custard]

Admittedly I'm a total Sopranos fan boy, but I ended up really liking it. The two hours absolutely fly by. It's satisfying as a standalone film, yet leaves you wanting more.

Will write more thoughts later, but yes, if you're a fan of the show deffo check it out on the big screen. I thought it captured the feel and (hehe) tone of the show very well, but a bit more cinematic, if you know what I mean. It looks bloody gorgeous

[jobotic]

Just looked up "gabagool".

https://www.esquire.com/food-drink/a25837043/what-is-gabagool-sopranos/

[Custard]

There's a bit of on the nose fan service, but honestly I found most of it funny and keeping in with the humour of the series. Especially the return of one of my favourite lines from the show, and it made sense that it would be repeated here. It actually made me proper laugh out loud, which I haven't done in a cinema in years

It feels a bit like people doing impressions of characters at times, and it does jar a bit as the characters are (re)introduced. Though I soon found myself just going with it, and enjoying the younger versions.

Livia is nailed by Vera Farmiga, and although she's in it a fair bit, I still wanted to see far more of her. You do see more of the gentler side of Livia, and that maybe she wasn't completely terrible. But within seconds she snaps back into being the horrible woman we all remember. It's a brilliant performance

Jon Bernthal is also good as Johnny, but really doesn't get much to work with. I'd have liked to have seen more of his interplay with his kids and Junior.

Junior himself doesn't really tally with the older version we know, he's much taller here for starters. But he gets a couple of standout moments here that I won't spoil. Again, I wish he'd been in it more

Alessandro Nivola is great as Dickie Moltisanti, and it makes you wish this had been a series, instead of a one off two hour film. I can see people saying the character isn't really given time to fully form, but I found him fascinating. He's not Tony Soprano, but he's fantastic to watch.

Young Tony himself was also excellently played by Michael Gandolfini, and blimey, he's the absolute spit of his old man. It was spine tingling at times with certain looks or grimaces.

I really enjoyed it, and hope to see it again soon. It's not as deep or as slow burning as the series obviously, as it's two hours instead of 87 hours. But it's a very solid gangster film, and fascinating for any fans of the series. Even seeing the pork store made the ol hairs pop up. It's The Sopranos. At a different time, and it's so good

I hope they do make at least one more, focused on Tony's rise, as I want to see more of these younger characters and earlier times

By the way, there's a very brief Marvel style mid credits scene, which I didn't expect. Doesn't add much, but I thought it was funny The Sopranos doing a Marvel!

[Seedsy]

This is how i feel after watching it custard. I just totally went with it on Saturday watching it
Im a total sopranos nut tho

Should have been at least a mini series i feel flesh it outa bit more.

Do not like what they did with Uncle Junior tho. His storyline actually jars.

[selectivememory]

I saw this today. I kind of enjoyed it, while simultaneously finding it all a bit silly and redundant. I loved all of Livia's scenes; they really got her spot on. And Michael Gandolfini did a very decent job as Tony, and I quite liked what we saw of him. I probably would have liked a film focussing on those two much more than what we actually got. The Dickie stuff was fine and reasonably compelling, but I didn't really need it to be honest, and I'll probably forget it pretty quickly. 

Mixed feelings about most of the other younger versions of the series characters. Paulie was OK, in part because the guy was restrained and he didn't have much screen time. Same with Pussy. I don't think they got Junior right though. The wrong actor, and I don't think the writing really captured him either. And the big reveal at the end involving him didn't really work for me. 

And what they did with Silvio was a disaster. Terrible performance, and also he's apparently now like 20 years older than Tony for some reason. What? They were supposed to be fairly close in age in the series. I don't know how they can fuck that kind of thing up. It's very sloppy stuff.

Three bags of popcorn then, but it would have barely scraped two if it wasn't for Vera Farmiga.

[colacentral]

I thought Junior was by far the best performance of an existing character because he was one of the few that wasn't doing an impression, and his few scenes, without giving it away, were the one part of the film that captured one of the defining elements of the show, that being the ridiculous pettiness of the characters. What he does near the end is absolutely in character for him. Remember how petty he is in the first season particularly.

Livia's performance was often times so over the top it genuinely felt like local theater. Dickie's performance was good but he wasn't an interesting or funny enough character to focus the whole film around. Ray Liotta was dire and single handedly deducts a point from the film himself. Decades of straight to DVD crime films has broken his brain.

This just felt like too many things crammed into one film. I wanted to spend more time with characters talking. Wouldn't it be important for us to see a bit more of Tony with his father, with his uncle, with his sisters? We hardly see Dickie with baby Christopher. I didn't particularly feel any real bond with him and Tony. How about Tony's coach? How about seeing a bit more of Johnny and Livia? Or Johnny and Janice?

It's frustrating because there were hints of a better film here - the prison visits, the school therapist, the scene with the stolen speakers. Those scenes felt the most like the series and stuff like that really should have been the focus, rather than the gang war gubbins.

Also,

Spoiler alert

The film all but confirms that Tony dies in Halston's, doesn't it? Blizzard setting, like the final episode. Tony sits at the bar and looks out the door waiting for someone (who he thinks of as family), someone he never gets to see alive. That person gets shot in the back of the head and doesn't see it coming. Tony symbolically connects with him in his coffin. I'm trying to think if there's anything else to it.

I also sort of feel that Junior's motivation for the killing rebuffs one of the inane arguments against Tony being dead that the likes of the idiot Alan Sepinwall lean on, that being that the war was settled. The show clearly establishes that these people will kill another person over any small perceived slight, real or imagined, and Tony has virtually no close friends left to protect him by the end.

[close]

[colacentral]

Just seen this and am firmly in the 'meh' camp. It has its moments as a fairly generic gangster film but it's not The Sopranos. Some effective cameo casting - Big Pussy, Uncle Jr, some awful - Silvio... I thought the relentless soundtrack was pretty irritating. The voiceover was completely surplus to requirements, I wonder if it was shoehorned in at the last minute, and is it just me or did it sound like it was recorded in WhatsApp voice note quality?

Two gabagools outta five.

Spoiler alert

The voice over definitely felt tacked on. I almost feel like it was studio mandated, like Harrison Ford's narration of Blade Runner. The thing that annoyed me most about it was that it didn't even sound like Christopher. Why is Christopher saying this? What has anything he says really got to do with what the film is about? "He choked me to death." Okay, thanks for that. Isn't this film mostly about Dickie though? I wonder what someone unfamiliar with the series would think of it. "Why does this baby we saw for five seconds in one scene keep talking about this other kid who's barely in it?"

[close]

[El Unicornio, mang]

This is now on HBO Max/"available"

[Custard]

Ooh nice. Second viewing tomorrow!

[Rizla]

Hope there's a bit where baby Furio says "stupida facking game" about I dunno hungry hippos or something.

Has anyone made that joke yet, I can't be arsed to check.

[frajer]

Hope there's a bit where baby Furio says "stupida facking game" about I dunno hungry hippos or something.

Has anyone made that joke yet, I can't be arsed to check.

You got a larva on yo 'at

[neveragain]

Oh dear, this was a bit of a muddle, wasn't it? Picked up in the second half but still felt as though they were telling the wrong story. Predictably, IMDB users have cried "BLM!" at the significance of the riots subplot... and, despite disagreeing with their agenda, I did feel there was a bit too much time spent with Harold and friends. Yes, it set up a feud but we still needed more time with the regulars. As I said, there were a few more nice scenes with characterful dialogue near the end but not enough that I felt satisfied.

[Custard]

Yeah, IMDB is full of cunts going on about how David Chase has "gone woke" and The Sopranos was never about black people. Complete fucking idiots

I think a lot of them didn't bother reading any interviews or blurb before the film, and went in expecting it to be solely about the young Tony. Whereas it's meant to be a document of that time, which Chase himself lived through, featuring Sopranos characters old and new. Admittedly the Tony centric trailer didn't help get this message across, and Chase had said he was angry with the trailer as it was mis selling the film

Some fud on IMDB was even moaning because they thought it was a sequel to the telly series! None of the advertising or anything sold it as that. Again, fucking idiots.

Dunno what else to say really. I really liked it. Horses* for courses, etc

*Til Ralphie burns it to death

[Custard]

One bloke on there was even moaning that he had to sit through "27 minutes of adverts". Like that isn't the case for every film ever

Nope, that's Chase going woke!

[Doomy Dwyer]

I saw this the other night. Oooff, madone. It really only works when viewed in terms of an origin story for Silvio's syrup. Beyond that, it was abject. There was too much and not enough at the same time. And two Ray Liotta's? That's a liotta Ray.

Does anyone else think that the dog in the scene where Young Tony is crying and throwing his speakers out of the window is supposed to be the same dog that Johnny Boy gives to his JFK porking goomar in the series? I hope so. That's the kind of fan service I demand. That dog has intrigued me for years now. 

[neveragain]

I liked the two Liottas.

[colacentral]

Apparently David Chase wants to write a sequel with Terrence Winter. I hope that happens because i'd hate to get glimpses of what could have been here and then that's it. It could have done with an extra hour on the run time with the characters we actually care about.

I liked the two Liottas.

I liked the second one, first one ruined every scene he was in.

[Custard]

Yeah, I agree that an extra hour would potentially has fleshed it out and made people care more. I wonder if there will be a director's cut. There must be stuff on the cutting room floor

I'd love a sequel too, and I think it'll happen. There's a clear story to tell there, focused fully on the young Tony, the fallout from this last film, Johnny's health issues, Tony and Carmella starting out, holding up the Feech card game.

I can't help feel, even though I really enjoyed this, that it would have been better served as a mini series or full prequel series. It'd have had so much more time to spread it's legs, and set the scene at a leisurely pace. But I don't think Chase has an interest in TV anymore, and I guess he's been there done that. So if it's going to be two or even three films, that'll do me

[Custard]

Spoiler alert

Chris' voiceover I'm not sure about. I liked that as we pass the gravestones each one was narrating it's own life story. And the slow pan to his grave gave me the chills. I'd be surprised if that was a studio demand though, as Chase is hardly known for giving in to outside pressure

Chris' dialogue was a bit weird too. "This is the man I went to Hell for" was really on the nose at the end, and not needed, and even I'd say lessened the impact of that closing moment where Tony is clearly turning a corner into something else

[close]

Small gripes though really. The show itself is my favourite thing ever, yet that had weird stylistic choices and jarring moments too

By the way, did anyone spot that animal, I can't even say his name, Tony Blundetto in this? He wasn't, was he? I remember his name being mentioned, but he didn't appear did he? So they could whack him in a potential sequel too

Maybe they could cast that bloke who played the young version of Buschemi in Boardwalk Empire

Fun fact: Terence Winter originally wanted James Gandolfini for the role of Nucky in BE, but Gandolfini rightly thought it was too similar a role to Tony. He certainly would have been more fearsome, like the real life Nucky

[Keebleman]

An enthusiastic, and idiosyncratic, take from Tyler Cowen:

Much better than its reviews, though the drama only works for those with an intricate knowledge of The Sopranos proper, and perhaps of Northern New Jersey as well.  The performances are uniformly excellent and the historical detail remarkable (where did they get that Bamberger's delivery truck?  The store disappeared in 1986.)  The younger versions of the characters are simply uncannily accurate, though perhaps young Carmela struck me as a bit too modern looking?  I view the core theme as one of unfreedom and determinism.  As a viewer, you see the characters as unfree because you already know what is going to happen to them.  As the story unfolds, you see how much they are unfree in a more fundamental sense as well.  No one talks conceptually, except for the uncle in prison, who also is the only free person in the story.  Recommended, but probably for the dedicated only.  To really follow and understand the film, you need to have all the images of the earlier Sopranos scenes, including settings and not just characters, filed away in your mind.

NB Cowen grew up in northern New Jersey.

[Magnum Valentino]

Does what

Spoiler alert

June

[close]

does mean that Tony is conclusively bullshitting Chrissie in the episode where he gives him that, er, gift? The name and address.

As I remember, the Sopranos left that deliberately vague but this confirms that Tony was lying to him to get him on side.

[Waking Life]

Fun fact: Terence Winter originally wanted James Gandolfini for the role of Nucky in BE, but Gandolfini rightly thought it was too similar a role to Tony. He certainly would have been more fearsome, like the real life Nucky

The real life Nucky wasn't very fearsome though, just a corrupt overseer. BE took big liberties in making Nucky more of a gangster (killings etc) than the real life one, which I think is a shame. The show might have been better had it leaned more into the politics, rather than the slightly cartoonish gangsters (I'm thinking Gyp Rosetti - not even real - and latter day Al Capone). Didn't know about the Gandolfini thing, although that would have been poor casting. As it was, I actually thought Buscemi nailed the part.

Derailing topic because I finished watching it recently, but BE had great potential and missed the opportunity. It didn't know whether it wanted to be a story about corruption in the the time of prohibition, or the rise of the Mafia (Luciano and the Commission really). They were inherently linked, but it jumped around far too much to service either properly, which is why the last season time jolt doesn't work (essentially to conclude with the Castellammarese War; prohibition ending has become irrelevant). As a result, the whole thing lacked focus and it was just contrived with the way characters were shoehorned into multiple plots. There's probably a really good series to be made on the rise of the five families and the associated real-life drama, but the diet version in BE was too thin. Still a superior series nonetheless.

Token back on topic, I think I might rewatch The Sopranos once I've seen this prequel - does it inspire that? I'm slightly dreading the time investment though.

[Custard]

Ah ok, I thought I read that the real Nucky was well feared. Maybe it was for more his power than his physical prowess

This thread is making me want to rewatch Sopranos for the 98th time, or Boardwalk Empire for the 22nd

I'd recommend Godfather Of Harlem, if you haven't seen that. It's not quite the standard of the above shows, but it's a decent watch. Forest Whitaker is excellent

[colacentral]

Isn't the thing with Boardwalk Empire the same as Deadwood, particularly the portrayal of George Hearst, in that him being a murderer isn't historically recorded but it's far enough in the past that the writers can take creative license with them a bit? I mean, they were both corrupt politicians living in times where it was much easier to be successful if you were a murderer, particularly if you were rich to boot. There's no way to know for sure that Nucky and Hearst weren't closer to their TV portrayals than you might think from just what's on record.  You can do horrible things and not get caught.