Pool

[Famous Mortimer]

Anyone into a bit of pool?

The 9-ball version popped up on my recommended videos a while ago, and I've been thoroughly into it. The fast pace works for my attention span, too. Matchroom (Barry Hearn) is gradually dominating the 9-ball world, with the biggest thing being the Mosconi Cup, where the USA takes on Europe. It's just celebrating its 30th year, but what I didn't realise until I watched this documentary is that it started as the best American pool players taking on a mix of European snooker and pool guys - Steve Davis, Jimmy White, and Alex Higgins all represented Europe in its early days.

Given how big a snooker fan I was at the time, it's weird that I never learned that. It must have been on British telly, too. Anyway. Europe is the pool powerhouse at the moment - they just thrashed the USA, although the Philippines are pretty shit-hot too (Matchroom is hoping to do a winner of the Mosconi vs. the Philippines extra tournament soon).

My favourite is the WPA 8-ball variety, which is largely the same version you'd see in pubs (although the table is a bit bigger), and is largely dominated by the same people you'd see on the 9-ball version. Shane van Boening and Francisco Sanchez Ruiz are the two most recent world champions in both disciplines (although neither won both in the same year).

Maybe the thing holding it back is the number of variations. There's Ultimate Pool, which is played on "pub tables" and has a smaller cue ball; 9-ball and WPA 8-ball; Chinese 8-ball (played on snooker-size tables); 10-ball (like 9-ball, just with a bit extra); and one-pocket (which does not seem particularly exciting to watch, but maybe I'm missing something). There are also a variety of governing bodies with their own rules.

As some of these styles don't have TV deals, there's tons of it on Youtube, which is nice. Mark Selby hadn't played pool since 2007, apparently, but decided to compete in Ultimate Pool in 2021 perhaps because he had a spare week? Using his wife's cue, he thrashed a bunch of people and ended up winning the Pairs Championship with Gareth "Name Too On The Nose" Potts, who I just discover is Selby's brother-in-law which perhaps explains it.

Plus, it's a lot of fun to play.

Any other fans? Favourite varieties or players?

[Endicott]

Chris Melling.^[1]

I prefer 8 ball on a UK style table (curved rather than sharp angled cushions around the pockets), and there has to be a clock otherwise they spend far too long dithering on shot choice. Think I've been watching some of that recently under the banner 'Ultimate Pool'.

Is Shane van Boening the one who can't shut his trap? If so can't stand that cunt.

_{[1] needs to be said in style of Fast Show CH9}

[Gulftastic]

I like 9ball as a spectator sport but some of the crowds, especially in the Mosconi Cup, are unspeakable cunts who have mistaken it for the darts.

[Famous Mortimer]

Is Shane van Boening the one who can't shut his trap? If so can't stand that cunt.

He's the deaf fella, who deals with hostile crowds by just turning his hearing aids off. He doesn't speak much...you might be thinking of Jayson Shaw?

I like 9ball as a spectator sport but some of the crowds, especially in the Mosconi Cup, are unspeakable cunts who have mistaken it for the darts.

It's nice to have a crowd, I think. Some of the tournaments I've been watching have one row of seating (in the pre-final rounds) and to distract from the silence pump music in, only quietly, so it's like they're playing pool while their friends are having a party next door.

Although, the chants of "boring" at any safety play from the "away" team does make me wish these fools would have an original thought every now and again.

[Endicott]

He's the deaf fella, who deals with hostile crowds by just turning his hearing aids off. He doesn't speak much...you might be thinking of Jayson Shaw?

Apologies to Shane! 95% sure now that I was thinking of Earl Strickland.

[shoulders]

I'm vaguely interested in three cushion after encountering loads in Northern Czech pubs, but the vagueness of the interest hasn't extended to playing it or understanding the point of it.

[Famous Mortimer]

Apologies to Shane! 95% sure now that I was thinking of Earl Strickland.

Yes, that's the fella! Always moaning about something or other. He's also featured in that mini-doc I shared above.

[Gulftastic]

Yes, that's the fella! Always moaning about something or other. He's also featured in that mini-doc I shared above.

And popped up in a Kid Rock video.

[sevendaughters]

I like all cue sports but find the pool varieties the least rewarding, on the whole. They intersect with a kind of Americana I like, and the films featuring it have usually been good. But modern pool is like one miss and you're fucked and with winner breaks it can be like 4 frames or more until you shoot again. I realise that's part of the game, but it strikes me as less interesting than 3 cushion and at least you get to come back next frame if you fuck up in snooker.

[Gurke and Hare]

I used to play pool, but then I moved and being away from the people I played with, I got out of the habit. About 15 years passed and a group of work colleagues started going to a club near the office after work and invited me along. I'd got glasses in the meantime, and it turns out they make it fucking impossible to play properly. Hence Dennis Taylor getting those goggles I suppose.

[The Crumb]

I like the clean, bright snooker-pool hybrid aesthetic of Chinese 8 ball, and I'd love to have a go on a table.

[Mr Banlon]

Italian Billiards:

A cross between Carom and losing your rag whilst playing Cluedo

Russian Pyramid:

Pool played on a snooker table with balls the size of grapefruits (like your dad)

[Famous Mortimer]

Italian Billiards:

A cross between Carom and losing your rag whilst playing Cluedo

Until the late 1980s, the game (with some rules differences) was a form of pocket billiards

I bet it was, the dirty old bollocks

[Endicott]

Great match this. Really gets going at 22:20 when they're 3 all.

[Famous Mortimer]

I just watched the 2023 WPA 8-ball final, Shane van Boening vs. Sanjin Pehlivanovic, and it was a curious one. The commentators spend an entire frame mocking SvB's choice of chalk, and refer negatively to it several more times, while Albin Ouschan (former world 9-ball champion) compliments his own chalk, made by the company sponsoring the tournament. The same company made the table and the triangle, but the ref having an absolute nightmare of a time getting the triangle to work properly is of course never mentioned.

It shows how much skillful or enthusiastic commentators can add to a game like this. They're unhappy with pretty much every shot both players make; it might have been a good sign that they swap one of the commentators out at around the 1:10 mark, but the guy who's in there for the last half-hour is even less colourful than the first one.

As both players made many dry breaks, there wasn't a lot of flow to it, so...I don't know. If it pops up in your recommendeds, maybe give it a pass.

[The Crumb]

Russian Pyramid:

Pool played on a snooker table with balls the size of grapefruits (like your dad)

I love playing this when I get a chance on holiday. Absolutely nails but incredibly satisfying when it goes right. The pocket clearance is tiny.

[Gulftastic]

When I was a kid my only only experience of pool was playing at Pontins in holiday or at the Northern Snooker Centre where my Mum worked and it was always spots and stripes.

I remember later when I started going to pubs being shocked at how rare that was, and it was pretty much reds and yellows everywhere. Was there a definite time when this switch happened?

[Mr Banlon]

I love playing this when I get a chance on holiday. Absolutely nails but incredibly satisfying when it goes right. The pocket clearance is tiny.

They had a table at the snooker club in Acton when it was the Hurricane Room. Since it changed to London Snooker, they no longer have it. Yeah, it's well hard.
The club is no longer open 24hrs a day 365 days a year either, which is probably a good thing as it was getting pretty fucking sketchy in there.

[Endicott]

When I was a kid my only only experience of pool was playing at Pontins in holiday or at the Northern Snooker Centre where my Mum worked and it was always spots and stripes.

I remember later when I started going to pubs being shocked at how rare that was, and it was pretty much reds and yellows everywhere. Was there a definite time when this switch happened?

Difficult to remember, and I think it may have varied round the country. In the SE at least, I think it might have been very approximately late 80s to early 90s, maybe.

[Endicott]

Been mulling this over and I think that might be too early by at least 10 years, ha ha. My memory is shocking.

[sevendaughters]

love watching this video of Roland Forthomme, who looks like he just knocked off driving the 142 to Halesowen, putting together a record run in 3-cushion.

[Famous Mortimer]

Today's recommended was the 10-ball world teams championship, GB vs the Philippines. I like the rule tweaks from 9-ball - no golden break, but you can get an early 10 at any point afterwards; and you have to nominate a pocket for everything. Get it in the wrong pocket, and your opponent can either put you back on, or take over.

[Famous Mortimer]

3-cushion

I enjoyed that video, thanks. It's like every shot is a little puzzle. I did like this Wikipedia bit, when reflecting on his score of 28:

Three-cushion billiards is a very difficult game. Averaging one point per inning is usually national-level play, and averaging 1.5 or more is world-class play. An average of 1 means that for every turn at the table, a player point success rate is 50%. An average of 2 means a success rate of roughly 67%.

I had a look, and there's a case to be made that 3-cushion billiards was invented / codified in St Louis (my current home). The first tournament was held at a place called Mussey's Billiard Room, but your guess is as good as mine as to where it actually was, as there's no address listed in any of the old books I was able to search. I appreciate this isn't interesting to anyone else.

[sevendaughters]

I had a look, and there's a case to be made that 3-cushion billiards was invented / codified in St Louis (my current home). The first tournament was held at a place called Mussey's Billiard Room, but your guess is as good as mine as to where it actually was, as there's no address listed in any of the old books I was able to search. I appreciate this isn't interesting to anyone else.

I think there is a consensus that it was codified in America as straight billiards (no cushion) had been perfected by about 1900 by pros who could make the game incredibly boring by gathering the balls in a corner and lightly nursing them. 3-cushion was one of many attempts to develop the game past this idea, and probably the best one. Pool obviously wins in the States partly for economic reasons. No idea why it landed so well in the Low Countries, but Asia are big on it now.

[Famous Mortimer]

I've noticed "straight pool" mentioned in articles, so I did a smidge of reading and it's another early 20th century attempt to rectify a crucial rule in the main (at the time) game. Continuous pool was where you'd break, and if you cleared up, you'd break again and go on until you missed. Players would often win without their opponent even getting their hand on the table, so some bloke said "how about we leave the 15th ball on the table, re-rack the other 14, and make your first shot have to be potting the remaining open ball and caroming into the pack?"

This seemed to crack the problem, and it was very popular til 8-ball and 9-ball took over.  But you'd still get bonkers long breaks, with the record standing at 526 for yonks until Jayson Shaw got 669 a couple of years ago. Perhaps for the best it's not a thing any more.

I've watched videos of both 3-cushion billiards and 1-pocket pool recently, and while I admire the skill in both, they seem like games designed for playing more than watching. I understand how good Efren Reyes is at 1-pocket without having any desire to see him play the game ever again.

EDIT:  I just learned about the 7-ball variant, too. Blimey, there's no wonder snooker did better.

[Famous Mortimer]

This is pretty impressive. Chris Melling absolutely destroys his opponent, who broke dry four times and watched Melling never miss a single ball.

[Mr Banlon]

If myself and my mates have paid for an all-day session at the billiard hall we'll start with a few frames of snooker, then on to an American pool table for a few games of 8-ball, then 9-ball (if there's more than two of us it'll be mainly 9-ball) then lastly on to the 6x3 'pub' pool tables. After playing on the 12x6 and 9x4.5 the pub pool tables are a piece of piss to play good on, and it almost feels like miniature pool.
I don't like the two-shot penalty in English pool. Much prefer the ball-in-hand (yeah, I bet you do)
I would ideally like to play 14.1 continuous, but most of the clubs I play at don't have scoreboards in the pool areas and the American tables are Sam Billards 'K' tables without a rotary score-counter built in like a decent Brunswick one would have.

[Famous Mortimer]

A Steven Hendry / Earl Strickland Chinese 8-ball match from 2015 popped up in my recommendeds:

It seems from the banter as if they're both having a laugh, and there are moments where it looks like Hendry is actually trying and makes it look easy, but Strickland wins pretty comfortably. I do like Chinese 8-ball, nice amount of tactics to go with the speed of pool.

[shoulders]

Two shot carry-on (ie. Pot first shot , miss second shot and get a third shot) is a shit rule for pub pool. It's an overly generous penalty and ruins good games.

No problems with two shots itself though.

[shoulders]

I love playing this when I get a chance on holiday. Absolutely nails but incredibly satisfying when it goes right. The pocket clearance is tiny.

Looks like that is Dynamic Pyramid rather than Free pyramid if I'm reading wiki correctly

Dynamic pyramid (also known as Siberian pyramid or Nevsky pyramid)
Only one ball is the cue ball. Players can pocket the cue ball with a carom shot off another ball and then the scorer must choose an object ball to be taken off the table. The player then has ball-in-hand and may place it anywhere on the table but may not pocket it until the next stroke, otherwise it is a foul