Bittersweet Symphony is fucking shit

[Paul Calf]

I always thought The Las were the band that The Verve should have been.

[badaids]

I saw the Verve at glasto in 95. Seismic is the right word. It had been pissing with rain the morning and when they hit the first chord of The Sun The Sea the clouds split and the sun blasted through - Richard was going mad up there. Barefoot in his massive Lionels and green Fred Perry.

Then the guitar rig went pop, so they had to do a jam. I think that formed the basis of Rolling People.

I was over the moon when the verve reformed, and it was obvious that the reformed group were just used as session musicians around Ashcroft. It's spot on that Urban Hymns is really a dull Ashcroft solo record with McCabe and Jones adding what they can.

If he hadnt made it big, Ashcroft would have spent the last 25 years driving around Wigan estates in his Jaguar saloon acting the peacock in pubs trying to sell weed and telling everyone about his 24ct gold chain and genuine Ray bans.

Have we talked about his live8 performance of BSS yet?

[dontpaintyourteeth]

anyone remember that gospel-soul band he tried to do? hilarious

[popcorn]

The first two Verve records A Storm In Heaven and A Northern Soul were written by all four members of the band whereas Urban Hymns was predominantly written by Richard Ashcroft. Was there a different dynamic making that album to what you'd experienced previously?

McCabe: That's a contentious point because this is his revisionist slant on it. If you want to talk about what songwriting is per se they originated with four chords on an acoustic guitar, but if you want to talk about the music that was created around them that's a band construction. It wasn't that much different from the processes that went into the earlier records. We all developed ideas on the spot and things happened additively. The same thing happened with Urban Hymns, so every bit of music you hear - all those different parts that make up the record - they weren't products of Richard's mind. We dressed the acoustic guitar and the voice. So I'm not particularly happy about that revisionist version of events because I know what my part was in making that record. A lot of those tracks bare his name because we had a manager who encouraged that line of thinking at the time.

https://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4151276-urban-hymns-at-20--dis-meets-nick-mccabe

[dontpaintyourteeth]

Is Rolling People the one that rips off Aphrodite's Child at the end, with the vocal bit?

[dontpaintyourteeth]

Is Rolling People the one that rips off Aphrodite's Child at the end, with the vocal bit?

Playing Aphrodite's Child's album 666 now and that Verve song absolutely rips off The Four Horsemen. Also, Altamont has the lyric "we are the rolling people" in it haha. Where does he get his ideas

[The Culture Bunker]

https://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4151276-urban-hymns-at-20--dis-meets-nick-mccabe

Eh, thing is, McCabe can point fingers at Ashcroft, management and so on - but the legal nature of music publishing is against him. Ashcroft wrote the chord structures and the lyrics, so it's his song - from what McCabe saying there, he's lucky that he's got a slice for the first two albums.

Not saying it's fair - but writing a guitar part/solo or bassline to go on top of some chords the other guy brought in doesn't mean you get a slice of the publishing.

[sevendaughters]

McCabe's comment there gives me pause. I'm not interested in the legal and administrative wranglings - just what comes across to me as a listener. I think you can hear the band coming to the fore in something like The Drugs Don't Work, and I think the way his guitar curls around some of the vocals is what really brings out the emotion (unashamed fan of it, but also a guy with a dead parent AND from Wigan). The run of slow-to-mid acoustic boreathons from Lucky Man to Velvet Morning...I'm sorry, they all still sound like demonstrations for Ashcroft's debut. Even on Sonnet, which I like, doesn't have the same ensemble energy.

Wonder if they'll do a 25 year tour of it next year. Christ I am old.

[buzby]

I saw the Verve at glasto in 95. Seismic is the right word. It had been pissing with rain the morning and when they hit the first chord of The Sun The Sea the clouds split and the sun blasted through - Richard was going mad up there. Barefoot in his massive Lionels and green Fred Perry.

Then the guitar rig went pop, so they had to do a jam. I think that formed the basis of Rolling People.

They had already recorded the first version of The Rolling People by then (at thaat time it was called Funky Jam), during the A Northern Soul sessions at Loco Studios in Wales. Come On was also initially recorded during the A Northern Soul sessions. Both were included on the bonus disc of the 2016 collectors edition of the album.

[Famous Mortimer]

Hang on, hang on, the article, from Feb 2022, they are just about to release their second album?

Assuming they true, and it eventually comes out, will there ever be a longer gap between first and second records.

I know this is just a reissue, but to answer your wondering, and ignoring folkies and self-released second albums, the longest gap is probably The Sonics, at 48 years between "Introducing The Sonics" and "This Is The Sonics".

[Spiteface]

McCabe's comment there gives me pause. I'm not interested in the legal and administrative wranglings - just what comes across to me as a listener. I think you can hear the band coming to the fore in something like The Drugs Don't Work, and I think the way his guitar curls around some of the vocals is what really brings out the emotion (unashamed fan of it, but also a guy with a dead parent AND from Wigan). The run of slow-to-mid acoustic boreathons from Lucky Man to Velvet Morning...I'm sorry, they all still sound like demonstrations for Ashcroft's debut. Even on Sonnet, which I like, doesn't have the same ensemble energy.

Wonder if they'll do a 25 year tour of it next year. Christ I am old.

I remember Nick McCabe doing an online Q&A a few years back, and he was lamenting that a reunion in 2015 to mark 20 years of A Northern Soul didn't happen, he was even willing to reconnect with Ashcroft and produce an album for him.

Considering how bitter McCabe was in 98 when they imploded, that's quite the turnaround.


I also seem to recall a feeling that the 2007/8 reunion was just Ashcroft trying to get his solo career back off the ground again.

That breakup seemed more on Ashcroft's end. The fact that McCabe and Simon Jones continued working together as Black Submarine, involving some musicians they worked with on Forth, indicates they wanted to do more. There's some good stuff on the Black Submarine album.

[popcorn]

This is a pure classic song that has and still will transcend the times music like this never dies it lives on forever

[Kankurette]

I've only heard "Urban Hymns" once and, despite me being of the right age and hair type, I hated it. It was almost like an old fashioned pre-Beatles album- 3 singles and a whole load of filler. Only the Verve did dirgey "jamming" rather than knocking out some quick cover versions. Jamming is what happens when a songwriter can't write songs.

Richard gave hope to knee-faced men all over the nation and inspired so many local bands to think that listening to "There's A Riot Goin' On" once meant you could list Sly And The Family Stone as an influence when in fact your band sounded like Oasis at half-speed.

Someone else compared his face to naan bread.

[phantom_power]

Does anyone know why Ashcroft went from blissed-out space wizard for the first two Verve albums to chippy agro-looking Gallagher clone afterwards? Did he just stop taking drugs? Did he get his eyes on the stardom prize and it changed him? Was it all an act from the start and he just dropped or changed it?

I suppose the path from drughead peacenik to conspiracy-nut right winger is a well-trodden one. I have known many who have taken that stroll

[sevendaughters]

read a think on the Hoffman boards that in 96 there was a demo tape floating around execs from Ashcroft was getting several people very excited - had on half of Urban Hymns and some future Ashcroft solo tracks - but Ashcroft got weird about being a solo guy and insisted McCabe return and then it became a new Verve record.

[badaids]

Playing Aphrodite's Child's album 666 now and that Verve song absolutely rips off The Four Horsemen. Also, Altamont has the lyric "we are the rolling people" in it haha. Where does he get his ideas

Wow - I had now idea, it's a stone cold rip off isn't it?  How did they get away with it?  Looking forward to trolling all those Aphrodite's fans on You Tube now.

Listening to the lyrics of Rolling People again for the first time again in 20 years, he's even plagiarising himself.

I've decided to listen to Forth tonight, I'll let you know how I get on.

[badaids]

Bloody hell, lyrically this is terrible.  Proper 'makes you think' meaningless drivel.

And the sampled 'woo hoo' on love is noise...

It sounds like Jones has been told to just chug away on the root notes, which is a terrible waste, meanwhile McCabe is trying to bring some life and character to things but it doesn't sound like his heart is in it.

[badaids]

 She said a latte double shot for Judas.

[badaids]

Ooh, there's a song that actually sounds like the proper verve, that is until Ashcroft starts getting involved, then the mix goes to shit and McCabe is turned right down.

I bet you can guess which one it is.

[badaids]

The drums really sound cheap on this record.

[badaids]

On this one someone clearly said 'let's make it like late 90s Primal Scream.'

[MiddleRabbit]

"You're a slave to money, then you die"

That's not "bittersweet", Richard, "shit" is what that is.

[willbo]

I had a friend at college who loved the Verve and bought Ashcroft's solo album on vinyl from HMV the day it came out. He was a cool guy.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

To be honest, if they've still got it, they could probably sell it for a decent amount- median price on discogs is £77

[willbo]

he was a record collector who was also into DJ-ing and had "white labels" of all sorts of stuff. He's probably got loads of records by now.

I remember back then thinking of "hymns" era Verve, Robbie Williams and "everything" era Manics as part of the same sound, like we were in some big orchestral indie pop era

[popcorn]

I remember back then thinking of "hymns" era Verve, Robbie Williams and "everything" era Manics as part of the same sound, like we were in some big orchestral indie pop era

Britpop?

[willbo]

I thought it was the next thing after britpop. Then after that was Travis/Coldplay/Muse.

[sevendaughters]

there definitely was a point where orchestras and rock had a happy co-existence, also The Kick Horns got employed a lot. mostly for singles, I note, shit costs money.

[famethrowa]

I thought it was the next thing after britpop. Then after that was Travis/Coldplay/Muse.

Shocked and ashamed to discover that Urban Hymns came out after OK Computer.

[willbo]

Shocked and ashamed to discover that Urban Hymns came out after OK Computer.

yeah, but maybe it was later that the real hype around "ok" started (Q magazine etc), and then later still till the rip off bands started proper careers.