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March 29, 2024, 09:44:43 AM

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RTD back for Doctor Who

Started by Jack Shaftoe, September 24, 2021, 04:17:47 PM

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Replies From View

Should also watch Heaven Sent from series 9 as a standalone.  Ignore the fact it ends setting up the final episode.

lipsink

Quote from: Replies From View on August 09, 2022, 08:02:26 AMShould also watch Heaven Sent from series 9 as a standalone.  Ignore the fact it ends setting up the final episode.

Heaven Sent is a great piece of work. It's the only episode of Series 9 I can sit through. I have the first episode a go a while back and it was just unwatchable. Just felt like a dire, depressing era to be a fan too.


Series 10, as others have said, is just magnificent. Like Moffat got his mojo back after the time off. He's sussed out how to do the 12th Doctor, Bill is just perfect for Capaldi's Doctor and the Cyberman finale is a work of art. I sometimes imagine if Series 10 was Capaldi's first series and he'd had 3 series with Bill and Nardole.

Seems like Moffat struggled with the workload unlike RTD who seems to thrive on the chaos. Moffat probably needed a year between each series to flesh out the characters though probably that wouldn't be ideal for viewers!

thr0b

Moffatt was also of course producing/writing non-Who-related stuff through much of his era, so he was probably close to burnout for a lot of it.

lipsink

You can really tell that he was burnt out between S6 and S9. There's still some absolute gems but the show has just lost momentum at that point. Series 10 was a great comeback and I was sad we didn't get more of the Doc12/Bill/Nardole crew.

mjwilson

Quote from: lipsink on August 09, 2022, 04:48:21 PMYou can really tell that he was burnt out between S6 and S9. There's still some absolute gems but the show has just lost momentum at that point. Series 10 was a great comeback and I was sad we didn't get more of the Doc12/Bill/Nardole crew.

It's genuinely incredible that someone who we thought had played all his cards could come back for one more season and do something so fresh.

Mister Six

I honestly think 8 and 9 have a much worse rep than they deserve, but I'm holding back on watching them again, as I'd like the rewatch thread to go that far.

Replies From View

Quote from: Mister Six on August 09, 2022, 05:27:26 PMI honestly think 8 and 9 have a much worse rep than they deserve

Same.  Capaldi brought something very special to the role, and for three glorious series remember we had no Chris Chibnall episodes.

McDead

I always thought he would be perfect for the role, perfect physicality, obvious intellect, a great head of hair, something otherworldly. But honestly I just found him too passive in the part. I don't know if passive is even the right word, sort of too removed, lackadaisical somehow. A quiet actor in a loud role.

Mister Six

Quote from: Replies From View on August 09, 2022, 08:02:40 PMSame.  Capaldi brought something very special to the role, and for three glorious series remember we had no Chris Chibnall episodes.

And even the one Stephen Thompson episode - Time Heist - wasn't that bad. Although it did have a Moffat co-writing credit.

Mister Six

Nice little thing by RTD on Gatwa for Time magazine.

Quote

The man is like a thunderbolt, and he keeps winning new ground: Ncuti Gatwa's creation of Eric Effiong in Netflix's Sex Education went soaring around the world. The character of the gay sidekick is meant to stay in the shadows. Not Eric! He strutted in, stole the spotlight, and I think a gracious, awestruck cast simply stood back and allowed him the room.

I'd watched him onscreen, and thought I had the measure of him, until he walked into the room for Doctor Who audition. Bang! Thunderbolt. And bear in mind, for U.K. TV, the part of the Doctor is the Crown Jewels, it's history, it's tradition, it's ... Oh, sod that, I said, and threw it at him.

He's conquered the world. Now all of time and space is his.

That's the whole article. Short but sweet, eh?

Thomas

And we have a lil interview with Tennant. Includes the first officially filmed behind-the-scenes footage of him in action. Seems those lockdown Twitter watch-alongs might have inspired his return:

QuoteThat's where this all started", explains Tennant.

"At a certain time and day everyone would press play on a certain episode and some of the people who had been involved in those episodes were tweeting along."

Afterwards the three of them "were just having a text exchange and Catherine said, 'wouldn't it be fun to do it again?'"

He adds: "Russell said, 'We could do a one off, maybe they'd let us'."

"We said, 'yeah that would be a laugh,' and then it all went quiet."

But last year Davies announced he was back as Doctor Who's showrunner. And Tennant and Tate received a surprising offer.

"Suddenly Russell let us know that he was taking over the show again and he would be back fully in charge and would we come and play a little bit for him?" says Tennant.

"So I don't know if we gave him the idea to take Doctor Who back but certainly we thought if he's doing it, we can't let these young people have all the fun.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63073710

Also yes series 10 is magnificent (Extremis is glorious, but you do need to skip the following two episodes and imagine a conclusion yourself). It firmly installed Capaldi as the default Doctor in my mind. So pleased he had a properly great series before he left. Bill, one of the best companions. And the end of Missy's story! Wonderful.

I even love the apparently divisive Twice Upon a Time (though I agree with Zetetic's occasionally raised complaints about the truce bit). There's something quite sweet about the fact that his finale features no villain - not to mention the crossover with the First Doctor. The bravado of that opening sequence! '709 episodes ago'. Coming right after the conclusion of the Master's story, it would have been a very fine place to pause the show for a while.

But then we'd have missed the 30-or-so good minutes of Villa Diodati. And nothing else.

Norton Canes

And the 40-or-so good minutes of Village of the Angels

Thomas

Hmm. I didn't get onboard with that one. Is that the episode where the village is isolated in time, but that old couple don't notice till they're standing at the very edge? And then the bloke explodes because Angels can only touch you once? And no one cares? And the old lady is the girl but there's no substance to the reveal?

I will grant it two collective minutes of nice imagery + one likable Jericho.

daf

Quote from: Thomas on September 30, 2022, 11:52:13 PMone likable Jericho.

Almost by accident Chibnall comes up with a cracking character . . . then immediately goes and kills him off - Idiot!

(I don't think there's even a gap for any Big Finish adventures with him, is there?)

Mister Six

I suspect that was Maxine Alderton and the actor making Jericho compelling.

I still reckon there are a few good non-Alderton episodes in the Chibnall run: It Takes You Away... um.

Okay, one good episode plus a few decentish episodes: The Woman Who Fell to Earth (yes), The Witchfinders, Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror. And Rosa and Demons of the Punjab were okay, but had that faintly dour, leaden tone that permeates Chibnall's first season in particular. A sort of dull worthiness, like doing some minor charity work with a very mild hangover.  And they took The Doctor far too close to recent historical atrocity for comfort.

Oh fuck it, just bin the whole thing. It's like trying to pick Parma Violets out of dogshit.

Replies From View

Quote from: Mister Six on October 01, 2022, 12:32:38 AMA sort of dull worthiness, like doing some minor charity work with a very mild hangover.

It's like trying to pick Parma Violets out of dogshit.

Good analogies.

BritishHobo

Quote from: Thomas on September 30, 2022, 11:34:51 PMI even love the apparently divisive Twice Upon a Time (though I agree with Zetetic's occasionally raised complaints about the truce bit). There's something quite sweet about the fact that his finale features no villain - not to mention the crossover with the First Doctor. The bravado of that opening sequence! '709 episodes ago'. Coming right after the conclusion of the Master's story, it would have been a very fine place to pause the show for a while.

I'm a big fan of HBomberguy's video essay on Sherlock, but thought the one he did on this episode was so off the mark. He goes in really hard on the 'no evil plan' reveal, which feels like a really unimaginative response to me. He criticises Moffat's Who for being generic, but then cannot accept an episode that does something different and doesn't just adhere to a standard plot formula.

He also (wrongly) says Moffat has no memorable characters in his era so has to 'only' bring back Capaldi's companions to say goodbye to (which is terrible, somehow?), and complains that Moffat didn't do a full series explaining how the Doctor ended up teaching at the university. Bizarre.

Mister Six

What? Those opinions are insane.

Quote from: Replies From View on October 01, 2022, 08:42:20 AMGood analogies.

This one, however, is quite good.

Replies From View

Quote from: BritishHobo on October 01, 2022, 11:40:23 AMHe also (wrongly) says Moffat has no memorable characters in his era so has to 'only' bring back Capaldi's companions to say goodbye to (which is terrible, somehow?), and complains that Moffat didn't do a full series explaining how the Doctor ended up teaching at the university. Bizarre.

Is there a reason this person has been brought out of the "bog-standard idiotic viewpoint on the internet" bin?

There must be, as there are otherwise too many of them to bother.

Edit:  oh, you did say you like his Sherlock opinions.  Fair enough.  Believe it or not I've yet to see Sherlock, or anyone's videos about it.

Replies From View

I would need to rewatch Twice Upon A Time to check, but doesn't the controversy around the truce involve people thinking the Doctor caused or triggered it?  Which I thought at the time the episode carefully specified wasn't the case.  Did I misunderstand the dialogue?

BritishHobo

Quote from: Replies From View on October 01, 2022, 04:02:12 PMIs there a reason this person has been brought out of the "bog-standard idiotic viewpoint on the internet" bin?

There must be, as there are otherwise too many of them to bother.

Edit:  oh, you did say you like his Sherlock opinions.  Fair enough.  Believe it or not I've yet to see Sherlock, or anyone's videos about it.

Yeah he is generally an amazing critical voice,  especially against alt-right types online - and did that incredible fundraiser for Mermaids, infuriating Graham Linehan and going far above and beyond the target. I feel bad criticising him because he's done far more good than I ever have. Still a BAD TERRIBLE OPINION sorry though

Replies From View

News is that RTD will be continuing as showrunner for series 15 (this was not confirmed before).

Mister Six

Ooh good. I assumed he'd be sticking around for at least a couple of years, though, while they got the ratings back up, created a sustainable plan for future showrunners and found someone willing to take the job.

bobloblaw

Rusty says climate change will be a regular presence in his reboot...


from Broadcast:
Doctor Who is to feature dedicated storylines about climate change after Russell T Davies identified it as a huge concern for youngsters.

Speaking to BBC chief content officer Charlotte Moore at the Climate Creatives conference today as he prepares to take the reins of BBC1's sci-fi drama, Davies said the issue needs to be addressed head on.

"It has to become part of the atmosphere of the whole show because it's true and it's part of the world we are living in now," he said.

He revealed that his approach as the writer for the 2004 reboot was to stop young people worrying about death and destruction. He recalled the Doctor, portrayed by Christopher Eccleston, making what Davies now considers to be a "hopelessly naïve" speech about how the human race always survives threats against it.

"My approach in 2022 is still to bring optimism and hope, but I have to be a bit more honest now. [If I wasn't] the young audience would say 'Don't be stupid, you've got to talk about this or you are letting us down hugely'," he said. "Now I'm in a position where I have to listen because young viewers are engaged and passionate about this."

Davies believes more dramas will place climate change centre stage over the next decade, driven by young writers who care deeply about the issue.

He compared it to the emergence of gay characters on screen.

"For decades, people asked why there was no queer representation on screen," said Davies, who also created Channel 4's AIDS-focused series It's A Sin.

"It doesn't happen overnight. A lot of good people have to chip away on soaps, dramas, and in theatre until it reaches a consensus and suddenly the gay and queer characters are centre stage and on screen.

"Climate change is now in the margins of the picture and is starting to step forward and enter into the dialogue. One day we will reach the point when we think 'How were we ever not talking about this all the time?'"

He highlighted the efforts of Coronation Street, in which character Maria is using environmentalism as part of a local councillor election campaign, as the sort of "stepping stone" storyline which is helping to make the issue more prominent.

Davies hinted at his plans with Moore to make climate change a bigger focus in all of his projects over the next few years.

"We have a plan which will absolutely stare this down," he said. "It's going to be the thing I am most proud of."

Davies revealed his disappointment that his attempt to tackle climate change in 2019's BBC1 dystopian drama Years and Years didn't attract a big audience. "It is very hard to get right," he said.

"It's the 18–21-year-olds who will start to write about this stuff as though it's natural," he said. "For older generations [writing about these issues] it's like ticking a box, whereas if you're 16 and in school, it's part of your life, your friends, your system. I eagerly anticipate that wave of dramas that will make people like me look very old fashioned."

He urged commissioners to identify young writers and pair them up with established production teams to learn skills that will help them deliver scripts.

"Once you get new talent coming in with that production background then we'll have more young ideas and more first-time writers on board," he said. "They are the ones who were talking about the climate issue when they were five. It's in their language, and it's innately view of their world."

Replies From View

He's talking about Thomas' generation there!

All that young blood you have in you, Thomas!  Stirring through your veins and every bodily organ.

purlieu

I wonder if people who found Chibnall's run too "woke" will find the same issue with RTD's, or whether they'll be too stupid to notice and only spotted these kinds of things in Chibnall's run because those messages were so ham fisted and on the nose.

Mister Six

I don't even think it's about being on the nose - Aliens of London's "massive weapons of destruction" and the various gay characters (including Bill, the actual first lesbian companion of colour, bollocks to Yaz) were hardly subtle.

I think it's simply that those episodes were fun, whereas so much of Chibnall's run is leaden and bland, even when it's trying to do high stakes spectacle.

It's the difference between preaching and lecturing. Preachers are by necessity also entertainers. They have a weighty message to sell you, so they sweeten the pill with a big tablespoonful of song and dance and audience participation. Lecturers are just there to drone on and on and until the bell rings.

Replies From View

It also doesn't help that Chibnall's ethics don't seem to be rooted in anything tangible beyond I think there was one episode saying pollution is bad.  The rest of the time it's something like Kerblam where the worker is the bad guy, not the corporation, or it's fine to let the Nazis deal with the Master once they can see his true ethnicity. 

You get a kind of 'lecturing' vibe off Whittaker's Doctor quite a lot, but at its core it's always meaningless babble, like the way adult conversations sound to a child sitting at the dinner table.


So with Chibnall's version of 'being woke' it's more that the audience is constantly feeling some kind of dissonance because they're experiencing such contradictory ethics, but also, like you say, it's no fun.  It's not dramatic or exciting - there's nothing there.  It's just exposition and info dumps.

olliebean

Quote from: purlieu on October 05, 2022, 07:03:23 PMI wonder if people who found Chibnall's run too "woke" will find the same issue with RTD's, or whether they'll be too stupid to notice and only spotted these kinds of things in Chibnall's run because those messages were so ham fisted and on the nose.

I suspect it will depend less on the actual content of the show, and more on whether they find a black Doctor as objectionable as a female Doctor. So, yeah, probably.

purlieu

Yeah, I didn't really want to bring up the clashing ideas thing again, I was just thinking of the very long lecture about pollution and stuff. There's a good message there, but it's done in such a clunky way that it doesn't even feel like dialogue. Whereas if it's done with a bit more subtlety, I think the more reactionary end of the fanbase might not notice. Like Star Trek fans who moan when it says anything remotely left-wing who happily ignored the whole social structure of the show because it was always used as a background rather than being directly aimed at the audience.

But yes, they'll probably just moan because the Doctor is black.