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March 28, 2024, 12:51:32 PM

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Anyone still playing the Hitman games?

Started by Retinend, March 17, 2022, 09:37:47 AM

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Retinend

I'm going to break my forum cherry with this thread. Is anyone still playing these games? Since recently getting back into gaming I've revisited my favourite developers from the PS2 days and I've fallen big time for the new generation of Hitman games, which I've gotten to enjoy in one massive blast, with the most up-to-date gloss over the whole 3-season package.

I view them more like episodes of a TV show than levels of a game. Each one has a plot that is at first confusing, but which becomes more comprehensible as you play through with a different plot strand (Mission Stories) and unravel the bigger picture.

For me, as a casual, this is satisfying because a lot of the time in the game you have to sit around and do nothing. It's better to spend that time watching little dramas play out than doing nothing. The last one I played was Hitman 2 Silent Assassin, in which you were cornered and confused most of the time - it was ALL trial and error. This time around, you feel smart for waiting in one place and watching the wheels go around.

The writing is pretty good most of the time during the levels, I think. The problem is with the overarching plot. Half of the levels (KGB Airport, Japan, China, Vermont, Sgail, Berlin, the last one) clearly do have characters that overlap, but the other half are irrelevant to the overarching story. This would be bad storytelling in a novel, but it makes sense as part of an ongoing TV serial.

But anyway, I wrote way too much already for an OP and I haven't even talked much about the part where you play the game! The point of my making the thread was that the game is incredibly addictive. They really have a good formula for cranking out variations on a theme and giving entertaining results. My mind reels at the amount of additional material, besides the main story missions, there is for me after I've exhausted the main part. I've poured more hours than I care to say into these story missions, and I've hardly scratched the surface of what else there is to do on the "World of Assassination" platform of IOI's.

So is anyone else really into this game? How do you find new ways to enjoy it? What are the best missions? What are the best non-mission modes?

Retinend

I considered bumping this one, but decided against it:
https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=90195.0
Hitman
Started by Mobius, October 18, 2021, 10:44:01 PM

falafel

The only level I have played of the reboot series was Sapienza but I absolutely loved it and spent a fair few hours just pottering. It felt like a mini version of what they were trying to originally do with Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, where the story played out in real time, with the bonus that you could brain people with an assortment of household objects.

I barely have time for games now so have resigned myself to picking the rest up 'at some point' but it's comforting knowing that at this point there are something like twenty little murder dioramas waiting to be tucked into. Plus I want to play it in VR. It also feels like a potentially great Steamdeck game. A streaming version came out on Switch but the implementation was panned.

Pink Gregory

Really want to get into this but I find these games so hard to commit to, only ever finished Silent Assassin on the Xbox.

It's the wanting not to save scum and not being happy with anything but perfection.  I have this problem with my favourite series ever (Dishonored) as well, so I don't want to invite it in a less flexible (?) game like Hitman.

I have heard on the podcasts that doing oen playthrough with opportunities on to learn the level and then replaying for challenges is rewarding enough.  True or not, do you reckon?

falafel

So I think the answer Retinend is no, anyone with time on their hands is playing Elden Ring and the rest of us are just miserable.

Chairman Yang

I am! Every now and then I'll get an itch to go back and murder a specific type of bastard. Sometimes I want the glossy James Bond point and click adventure of the modern games and other times I want to stab a pimp with a meat hook in a strip joint.

I think the Hitman games, for all their ridiculous affectations, deserve to be played by as many miserable people as possible. It's not like they're particularly great games but no other series has so consistently embraced the spirit of 'titting about' than Hitman.

If you meet the game halfway you can have a gripping roleplaying game, skulking around and picking off your target by the skin of your teeth, or you can dress up like a flamingo and throw a fish at someone through a wall, they're brilliant.

My favourite level of the reboots is probably the Isle of Sgail for its elaborate map and gorgeous set design, or Berlin for the free-form challenge of picking off the (ostensibly) elite ICA agents.

I LOVE HITMAN. It also runs on a PS4 unlike Elven Ring.

Chairman Yang

#6
Quote from: Pink Gregory on March 17, 2022, 12:38:09 PMIt's the wanting not to save scum and not being happy with anything but perfection.  I have this problem with my favourite series ever (Dishonored) as well, so I don't want to invite it in a less flexible (?) game like Hitman.

I went through "Hitman 2" like this, just grinding my way to a flawless run first before trying the silly side-missions later, and while it's cool that you can do that I think it's the worst way to go.

The Hitman games are so imprecise and complicated that frequently, especially at launch, people would just detect you and fuck up a whole run. I think if you go into them trying to have a bumble around and watch the stories unfold you might have a better time?

Edit: Also the Elusive Targets mode where you only get one chance to kill special DLC targets is so exciting because you can't be flawless. You end up having to stumble your way through these clockwork levels, buggering up your perfect hit and streaking away like an evil, bald Chuckle Brother. It's fantastic!

Cold Meat Platter

I believe your saves are limited on higher difficulty modes? I've played Hitman 1 recently but not exhaustively, will really need to go back and go through it and the other 2 now its on gamepass.
It is incredibly tense when you've set up a kill after a 'eureka' moment and you're waiting for it all to go off and this tension is lessened by knowing you can reload, but on the highest difficulty all assists are off so only for once you'd really learned the level.

Yeah been playing the Hitman games since the start on and off, love them.
Remember filling my wee shed in Hitman 2 with all the weapons, great times.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Chairman Yang on March 17, 2022, 04:29:38 PMYou end up having to stumble your way through these clockwork levels, buggering up your perfect hit and streaking away like an evil, bald Chuckle Brother. It's fantastic!

Wonderful description.

The Culture Bunker

I've not played Hitman 3 yet, probably waiting till the Gold Edition or whatever is going for £20 or so, but looking forward to it after enjoying the previous one a lot. Think my favourite moment was the episode at the grand prix, and managing to time it right so I tipped the old man off the bridge onto his daughter's speeding race car below.

Mobius

I'm waiting for them to release that new level codenamed "Rocky"

Retinend

I agree on the genius of the household objects. It's fun to replay a mission with a minimum of gear (e.g. just the silenced pistol and one trump card - in my case my fave - the emetic syringe), and see how far you can get picking up random shite lying around. Geniusly, the game is so designed that you never need a particular item for a particular section: you can do with your bare hands (or with legwork) everything that can be done with any other object.

Re: save-scumming: As I was going through my first playthrough, I was save-scumming to hell and back.  Then, after exhausting the mission stories, I did the "Master" difficulty level and I realized that the limitation of having only one save was improving my ability in the game massively. So it's like this for me: I'm a complete control freak and it's obvious that I am going to save scum and reiterate a scenario in a dozen ways out of curiosity... but I still think things like elusive targets and master difficulty and the "escalations" (which all have no saves) are essential, in order to restore some of the immersion that saving-every-12-seconds removes.

beanheadmcginty

Can't believe they haven't done a level set in a late 80s provincial nightclub

Noodle Lizard

I tend to play real classy like. No guns, no gadgets other than maybe a lockpick, Silent Assassin. I wish Silent Assassin Suit Only was more realistically attainable, but most of the time it requires some rather silly, immersion-breaking arsing about.

Best levels in the new series are Sapienza (though I wish that last section in the underground lab was optional), Sgail and Dartmoor, for my money. One from each release, lovely. I think Bangkok and New York had a lot of potential as locations, but they weren't particularly satisfying overall, and honestly Dartmoor's only really fun when you create your own assignments (like snuffing off the entire family in order of most to least annoying, for instance). It's a really mixed bag, but I'm glad it's there.

Retinend

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on March 18, 2022, 01:09:37 AMCan't believe they haven't done a level set in a late 80s provincial nightclub

What's a suitably late-80s-themed, brick-like object that could feasibly incapacitate a bouncer? A pint of snakebite? A bust of Michael Jackson? Rubix cube? (no... that would be a banana-like object that causes a someone to rub their eyes for a few seconds - can be used to buy a few seconds escape time, I believe).

The Guppy

I played the fuck out of the Hitman Trilogy. The episodic nature of Hitman 1 forced me to play each map to destruction before moving on, and I found that rewarding so I stuck with it for Hitman 2 and 3.

I'm not still playing it though. I've done everything in it, and the DLC for Hitman 3 was expensive so I'm gonna wait a while and get it all cheap.

Quote from: Retinend on March 18, 2022, 09:16:26 AMWhat's a suitably late-80s-themed, brick-like object that could feasibly incapacitate a bouncer?

beanheadmcginty

Quote from: Retinend on March 18, 2022, 09:16:26 AMWhat's a suitably late-80s-themed, brick-like object that could feasibly incapacitate a bouncer? A pint of snakebite? A bust of Michael Jackson? Rubix cube? (no... that would be a banana-like object that causes a someone to rub their eyes for a few seconds - can be used to buy a few seconds escape time, I believe).

Michaela Strachan's earrings

Retinend

#17
I checked out the non-main-release missions, but I wasn't impressed. The first one I tried was a Christmas themed Japan map, with a single target who promptly goes to the bogs to look in the mirror. You trigger the malfunctioning toilet and he goes to inspect. So kill him in the toilet. Mission complete. How disappointing! Others were similarly non-challenging. Which of the map "reskins" are actually rewarding?

Mobius

To be honest I find all of the escalations, contracts, 7 deadly sins stuff pretty crap.

I just like doing the main missions from the 3 Hitmans. If you haven't gotten them already the Haven Island and New York levels are good.

Cold Meat Platter

I'm back at the start of Hitman 1 now after downloading it for xbox on gamepass.
Just choked out my fashion show doppelganger and arranged a meeting with Dalia. The other dude's fate is unclear.

Striding out of the level totally unnoticed while everyone goes berserk following a death is just chef's kiss level quality. One of the most satisfying things in gaming for me.

The 'original' Hitman 2 had a great mission where a cult leader was having an operation in an underground medical facility in his cult base, in India, I think.
Infiltrating, nicking a doctor's outfit and ID (injecting him with anaesthetic), travelling down to the secret hospital, putting on surgeon's scrubs, entering operating theatre with the cult leader anaesthetised on the table, unseaming him from the nave to the chops.
Strolling out of the theatre and changing into doctor's uniform, going back up to the Doc's room, changing back into my nice suit with the red tie and fucking off.

I have to be in the mood for them but they are incredible games.

H-O-W-L

I haven't touched Hitman 3 yet because I think the developers have revealed themselves to be totalcunts. I played through all of H1 and 2 and the expacks for them before this though. Been a fan of the series all my life but the anti-consumer shite of H3's Steam release has just put me off, probably for good now.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: H-O-W-L on March 22, 2022, 07:09:29 AMI haven't touched Hitman 3 yet because I think the developers have revealed themselves to be totalcunts. I played through all of H1 and 2 and the expacks for them before this though. Been a fan of the series all my life but the anti-consumer shite of H3's Steam release has just put me off, probably for good now.

Would you mind elaborating or linking to something about this? I know there were some grumbles about server issues when H3 released and people being disappointed in the lack of extra stuff, but I don't know what happened with the Steam release.

Capt.Midnight

I enjoy the game way better once I've gone through the largely tedious Mission Stories (just to get a hang on what's going on in each level). Once I know that, it's way more fun to make it up as you go, or plan a specific approach out. I remember watching an interview with the developers, who mentioned that the Mission Stories weren't originally in it. I can't remember who, but it was heavily suggested that they add the Mission Stories to hold the players hand and reveal the story in a streamlined way. I still don't think they work though, largely being too 'on the rails'.

One thing I think goes unnoticed is how top notch the sound design & environmental damage can be, as most players adopt a quiet, stealth approach.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I have still not made a proper start on Hitman 2, which I bought back in 2020.

Natnar

There's the new Freelancer mode coming later this year which looks interesting with the return of a Safehouse for 47
https://www.keengamer.com/articles/features/opinion-pieces/five-reasons-to-be-excited-for-hitman-3-freelancer/

H-O-W-L

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on March 22, 2022, 04:17:54 PMWould you mind elaborating or linking to something about this? I know there were some grumbles about server issues when H3 released and people being disappointed in the lack of extra stuff, but I don't know what happened with the Steam release.

The TL;DR is that Hitman 3 was Epic Games Store exclusive on PC for a year. This pissed plenty of people off in the first place (as it did me) because most of us have our progress saved to our Steam Cloud accounts and IOI Accounts. They also refused to transfer said progress from Steam to EGS despite owning the servers said progress is saved on, and also said that at launch, owners of the prior games would not get the prior games' content in H3 for free despite that being standard for H2.

This was resolved but it left a sour taste in everyone's mouths.

Cut to Hitman 3's launch on Steam. After a year of exclusivity on another platform -- an exclusivity deal which earned IOI millions because Epic pay upfront for a certain amount of copies, ensuring H3 made a profit before it even launched -- the game launched at full price with an expansion pass ontop, meaning the deluxe edition (which has a majority of content) is 79.99 and it doesn't include the prior hitman games if you don't own them-- they're another thirty quid despite being a four year old and six year old game. And then ontop of this, the Seven Deadly Sins content is another thirty quid on top of that!

It was such a slap in the face to those who had the patience to wait for it to come back to their chosen platform, and showed just how little, IMO, IOI give a shit about the end consumer. When this came out and H3 got review-bombed (rightfully so) they started upgrading people's purchases for a week, but it's too little, too late IMO, and they're not going to redeem themselves from this merely by giving out frankly vastly overpriced DLC for free in a limited time period.

What doesn't help is that Hitman 3 is a level short. Despite me loving the Romania level (I played through H3 on friend's PC) it's definitely not a full Hitman level, and there are other gameplay quibbles that complicate 3 into not being worth the full fifty-sixty quid price tag, IMO. It's far more of an expansion pack wrapped in gold colored tinfoil than Hitman 2 was, despite Hitman 2 being heavily accused of that.

This comes in after IOI claimed that their independence from both Squenix and WB would mean they wouldn't cashgrab so much any longer, and after they left Hitman 2 abandoned with some genuinely game-breaking bugs that make certain challenges nearly impossible, which was already a bit of a bastard. Nevermind the fact the servers, at Steam launch, were so full that people were getting 30+ hour queue times. That, and the VR support is absolutely horrific -- I tried it on the GamePass version and legitimately felt ill despite being pretty much invincible to VR motion sickness.

IOI have tried hard to win back fan faith after the absolute turkey that was Absolution, and despite the fuck-ups of H2016 being always-online and episodic, people (including myself) came back and gave them a chance. H2 was fine at launch, but gradually got buggier and was never truly fixed after being broken once.

I love the new Hitman games but IOI have shown themselves to be a barrel of bastards, business wise, so I doubt I'll support the series in future.

Pink Gregory

Quote from: H-O-W-L on March 23, 2022, 01:54:57 AMH2 was fine at launch, but gradually got buggier and was never truly fixed after being broken once.


I guess they expect people to play all the H2 levels through H3 now?

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: H-O-W-L on March 23, 2022, 01:54:57 AM[litany of IOI crimes]

Thanks for the breakdown! Yes, that does seem awfully tedious and shit of them. I definitely ended up overpaying for a few things, felt a bit like being punished for doing everything "right". I was an early bird season subscriber for the first season, but never got a discount on the DLC whereas most people seemed to be able to get the whole bundle for cheaper than my initial payment as soon as the episodes had started being released, and I ended up having to supplement (digitally pre-ordered) Hitman 2 with a physical release of the Gold Edition later on in order to get the DLC cheaper than paying for the upgrade directly. I may be misremembering this sequence of events as it was all a bit confusing, but I'm sure I ended up paying more than I probably should have for the first two releases. I put this all down to a kind of haphazard experimental release structure, and I didn't really mind throwing IOI some extra money considering all the chatter about how they'd gone independent and basically needed every purchase. Shame that they appear to have thrown their audience under the bus at the earliest convenience, though.

And yes, I agree about Hitman 3 being a level short. Romania really belonged in Absolution. It's fine that it exists, but it's no substitute for a proper Hitman map.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: H-O-W-L on March 23, 2022, 01:54:57 AMH2 was fine at launch, but gradually got buggier and was never truly fixed after being broken once.
Oh, plops. Does that include the PS4 version?

H-O-W-L

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 23, 2022, 06:35:37 PMOh, plops. Does that include the PS4 version?

No clue. It still generally works but pathfinding is somewhat fucked and you will probably never get the toilet drowning challenges without daisy-chaining coins while they're nauseous (no, fucking really) because they will never pathfind to toilets. Sniper detection is also fucked.