Our continuing loss of privacy and freedom...

[Pinball]

American Airlines Admits Disclosing Passenger Data

American Airlines recently became the third commercial airline to
admit turning over passenger information to the United States
government or its contractors without the knowledge or consent of
affected passengers.  American announced that Airline Automation, a
vendor working for the airline, gave 1.2 million passenger records in
June 2002 to four companies that were competing for contracts with the
Transportation Security Administration.  

The airline conceded that it had authorized the records to be
disclosed to the agency, but not the contractors.  

Airline Automation disputed American's version of
events, contending that the airline merely said that it would receive
instructions from the Transportation Security Administration, which
then asked that the data be transferred directly to the contractors
"testing aviation security systems" for the agency.

The Transportation Security Administration has repeatedly denied to
Congress and the public that actual passenger information has been
used to test the controversial second generation Computer Assisted
Passenger Prescreening System, or CAPPS II.  

The Department of Homeland Security, parent agency of the
Transportation Security Administration, has announced that it is
investigating the government's role in the disclosure.

In related news, the European Parliament has passed a resolution
challenging the European Commission's temporary agreement to share
airline passenger data with the United States government.  The
Parliament also asked the European Union's top court to determine
whether the agreement violates European privacy laws and whether the
Parliament's consent is necessary for the agreement to enter into
force.  If the court finds that the agreement violates European laws,
it will be annulled or declared invalid.

For more information about the E.U./U.S. agreement to share passenger
data, see EPIC's EU/U.S. Passenger Data Disclosure Page:

     http://www.epic.org/privacy/intl/passenger_data.html

Bear in mind this all happened two years ago, so you can be sure it's a done deal now. Now the only issue is which agencies get to see the data, in addition to the obvious ones. Inland Revenue? Customs? Councils? Just think of the creative ways public bodies will be able to destroy you/set you up. Could it be easier for them? We are expected to trust millions of civil servants with this data now in various countries around the world, and hope none of it is sold to criminal organisations or otherwise misused (e.g. by companies, who will also want this data). This sort of data collection will create more terrorism and crime than it prevents IMO, but more importantly it will extinguish our freedoms in a vicious circle of political self-righteousness. How many 911s will be needed before the UK becomes a military state, as each atrocity leads to ever more draconian measures?? Not many I suspect, and the attacks sadly will probably happen...

<Let me be the first to shoot anyone who says "if you've done nothing wrong...">

[Pinball]

The many faces of the technology of government spying on you

Remember Carnivore? Well that's old hat now. It's not good enough that they record all incoming and outgoing emails at ISPs, now they want to attack encrypted emails too. Here's how they do it:

Magic Lantern was devised primarily to overcome the problems raised by suspects who were savvy enough to encrypt their data. It operates in the following manner. The FBI first installs Magic Lantern directly onto the suspect's computer by way of a Trojan horse virus, sent via email. Once installed, the software records every single keystroke that the suspect types. The FBI can then secretly break into the suspect's home to download the recorded data. This data is then analyzed to determine the suspect's encryption passwords. With these passwords, the FBI can then gain access to all of the suspect's encrypted data, without his knowledge.

Would I be cynical in proposing that Microsoft has included this monitoring technology in Windows, such that we are all "accessible" to the spooks? Is that what it is to live in a free country? What a joke.

[9]

The FBI can then secretly break into the suspect's home to download the recorded data

I was quaking in my boots until i read that part. This seems like a fairly bollocks way to get back the info that the trojan records, especially if you have to do it repeatedly.

Nevertheless its depressing to read how much of our money is being spent on 'advancements in national security'' like this, rather than other stuff that actually matters.

[Pinball]

The FBI can then secretly break into the suspect's home to download the recorded data

I was quaking in my boots until i read that part. This seems like a fairly bollocks way to get back the info that the trojan records, especially if you have to do it repeatedly.

Nevertheless its depressing to read how much of our money is being spent on 'advancements in national security'' like this, rather than other stuff that actually matters.

I reckon the concept of the FBI needing to break into your home to download data is as quaint as the idea of court orders required to tap a phone, when in reality everything everywhere is recorded all the time by Echelon, and has been since 1971. I suspect the reality is that the "trojan" is already embedded in Windows, and that the FBI, if they wanted, could upload whatever the hell they want from your PC directly without needing to "break in" to our homes. The fact is - they're already in our homes, virtually speaking. I believe the new Longhorn operating system from M$ has this functionality, even if XP doesn't (though I expect XP does...). Also, what about the "Windows update" feature - shurely a gift to the spooks!!!! Who fucking knows what we download from there!!!

[Still Not George]

I have to admit being occasionally worried by the amount of stray traffic that seems to wander along my upstream, given that most of the time I'm not uploading anything (Torrents/edonkey notwithstanding). So I did run a packet sniffer over my connection a while ago, but I couldn't spot much of importance. There are an awful lot of 'Windows Services' that seem to use up bandwidth and not do much. Still haven't decided how paranoid I want to be about that.

[Purple Tentacle]

Also, what about the "Windows update" feature - shurely a gift to the spooks!!!! Who fucking knows what we download from there!!!

Hehehe, I remember you telling some unfortunate virtual-pox ridden whore to keep XP updated reguarly to stop themselves getting virii...... which is it to be??


Given the hysteria over child pornography, and MSN shutting down their chatrooms for this very reason, isn't "LongHorn" a rather inappropriate name?

[Munday's Chylde]

<Let me be the first to shoot anyone who says "if you've done nothing wrong...">

Fascist!

[gazzyk1ns]

I reckon the concept of the FBI needing to break into your home to download data is as quaint as the idea of court orders required to tap a phone, when in reality everything everywhere is recorded all the time by Echelon, and has been since 1971.

I'm sure I'm not meant to tell anyone but I don't care -

BT develop/manufacture/supply phone taps which require no physical connection by wire to the phone line. Most are supplied for fairly genuine purposes, i.e. to employers who want to check what their workers are using business phone lines for. But I know that they supplied some to MI5 a while ago. MI5 and BT have various dealings with each other, BT circulate MI5 job application forms to a lot of the guys working for Exact (their R&D section) regularly, and everyone at BT assumes that MI5 does a similar thing.

The taps are basically a wire with a sensor at one end and a DAT recorder of some kind at the other. All they require is to be literally sellotaped/blu tacked/paperclipped onto the single copper pair coming from the line you want to record, no stripping or other preparation required - i.e. it leaves no evidence.

I've never seen one myself and have no idea how they could work, I'm sure someone like Sheep could guess - something to do with electromagnetics?

[TraceyQ]

I'm not sure about all this.

Why on earth would any government agency be bothered about me? I'm nothing of interest.  And if they're not bothered about me, why should I be bothered about them? It's a genuine question. I would really like to know why Pinball, Bill Oddie and the like are so worried.

[Munday's Chylde]

I'm not sure about all this.

Why on earth would any government agency be bothered about me? I'm nothing of interest.  And if they're not bothered about me, why should I be bothered about them? It's a genuine question. I would really like to know why Pinball, Bill Oddie and the like are so worried.

The ultimate fear is 100% state control, like in them films and books about... state control. They get upset when they see what they percieve as the seeds being planted for this nightmare vision of the future... from tiny acorns etc. But secretly they want it to happen I reckon else when they're old and grey and we all live in Utopia they'll realise they wasted half their life worrying about something instead of dancing with kittens.

[TraceyQ]

Join Us!!!!

[Munday's Chylde]

Yes! Come on! It's a beautiful world out there! Everything's fine!

[hands cold, liver warm]

I think a lot of this technology is being used for sinister purposes and there are a lot of shawdowy people who would love a 1984 style society.

However they have a problem. Its easy enough to gather information on people. Its much harder to actually analyse all that vast information and use it. An instance is the american secret services and 9/11. They had gathered enough info to know what was going to happen, but they couldn't read through it all in time to prevent it.

The soviet system in the 30's was what undoubtedly inspired 1984. However Stalin's system of controlling his people was not based on actual, true information. It was based on innuendo, rumour, fear and lies. They didn't need fancy technology, they just had a quota of people that were to be sent to the gulags and forced them to sign fantasy confessions.

so the question is: does the loss of privacy bring forward a 1984 esque nightmare when there are much simpler ways of achieving it. Why would a government bother gathering correct information on people, when they could just falsely accuse suspects and lock them up (like the soviet union)?

[Des Nilsen]

[Pinball]

Also, what about the "Windows update" feature - shurely a gift to the spooks!!!! Who fucking knows what we download from there!!!

Hehehe, I remember you telling some unfortunate virtual-pox ridden whore to keep XP updated reguarly to stop themselves getting virii...... which is it to be??


Given the hysteria over child pornography, and MSN shutting down their chatrooms for this very reason, isn't "LongHorn" a rather inappropriate name?

Ah, so true. It's a risk benefit calculation I guess, although I wonder if the "supply and demand" aspect of using Windows Update is being instilled into us by means of government worms... ;-)

[Pinball]

The taps are basically a wire with a sensor at one end and a DAT recorder of some kind at the other. All they require is to be literally sellotaped/blu tacked/paperclipped onto the single copper pair coming from the line you want to record, no stripping or other preparation required - i.e. it leaves no evidence.

I've never seen one myself and have no idea how they could work, I'm sure someone like Sheep could guess - something to do with electromagnetics?

It's by impedance, like how a motor works (that doesn't make physical contact either). An extreme example is the transatlantic fibreoptic communication links. Apparently Echelon have had "taps" wrapped around those since the 70s, and fuck knows how they work (probably the same principle I suppose)!

[Krang]

This is partly the reason why i have decided to have no private life. You hear about Dirty Den, his secret lives uncovered. Its more than likely that eventually, someone will come across your stash of dog porn, or your garage of drugs. Clearly, having everything stored in my brain, means that no one can get to it... i hope.

Anyway, when people die, everything gets cleared up, and things come to light to reveal the true or "darker" side of the person who has passed away. I dont want this to happen. Obviously, ill still have a bank account, and all the other essentials, these will remiain private etc. but my personality will be true of myself, and i no longer have to worry about being at the centre of a scandal.

As a disclaimer, i would like to add i do not have any dog porn or a garage full of drugs.

edit: some spelling

[Pinball]

I'm not sure about all this.

Why on earth would any government agency be bothered about me? I'm nothing of interest.  And if they're not bothered about me, why should I be bothered about them? It's a genuine question. I would really like to know why Pinball, Bill Oddie and the like are so worried.

That's a reasonable reaction. But I would ask - if it's of no value to them, why do they do it? Why does the US spend $450 billion per annum when we're all such kittens? The answer is that it's not about us, it's about them. It's about what they want. The joke is that "they" are supposed to represent "us".

hahahahahahahah

[TraceyQ]

That's a reasonable reaction. But I would ask - if it's of no value to them, why do they do it? Why does the US spend $450 billion per annum when we're all such kittens? The answer is that it's not about us, it's about them. It's about what they want. The joke is that "they" are supposed to represent "us".

hahahahahahahah

I dont think I get it.

[Pinball]

That's a reasonable reaction. But I would ask - if it's of no value to them, why do they do it? Why does the US spend $450 billion per annum when we're all such kittens? The answer is that it's not about us, it's about them. It's about what they want. The joke is that "they" are supposed to represent "us".

hahahahahahahah

I dont think I get it.

I think most people are decent, law-abiding and non-aggressive. Indeed, if this were not the case we wouldn't have societies, we'd still have warring tribes. However, not everyone is like that, unfortunately, meaning those who seek to exploit on an industrial scale - quite literally. This military-industrial complex and ruling elite runs the world, and don't want that situation to change. The politicians are actually largely irrelevant. Bush, Blair and their ilk are just large bluebottles flying around piles of shit. Politicians come and go, but the military-industrial complex remains. What is the military industrial complex? Easy - follow the money. Who gets the contracts out of the $0.45 trillion annual US "defense" budget? Who gets the contracts in conquered Middle Eastern countries? Halliburton, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Exxon etc. etc.   And Bush works for 'em. That's it really (IMO).

And so we have our world, dominated by scum like Bush and those they represent (by whom I don't of course mean "the people").

"The USA - raping, buggering, torturing, murdering and pissing its way around Iraq to make the world a safer place"

[hands cold, liver warm]

thats exactly my point

[Pinball]

To paraphrase Holmes, it's not so much what the cat did, as what the cat didn't do ;-)

[Gazeuse]

Anyone fancy a swift half???

[Marcus Or Relius]

I fear the idea of the erosion of privacy from the authorities because I have lots to hide. Fucking loads.

That's what I'm going to tell people from now on if, during a discussion about this sort of thing, they whine "But if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear," whilst grinning like a frigged chimp, proud and happy in their belief that no-one has ever used that empty line before.

[Pinball]

With the degree to which people are exposed to the State now, they wouldn't know what fucking hit them if they were ever investigated. "Nothing to hide"? Yeah right. If "they" get you on one tiny little thing, they'll destroy you. A sort of quantum theory of investigation I guess.

Everyone has a private life, even innocent holier than thou rabbits, that's why it's called private. It's nothing to do with the State. They can fuck off. When the ID card arrives I will refuse to cooperate. They can imprison me but I will not submit to it. If enough people did that it would fail. But do you think the sheeple will baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa loudly enough, or just accept it like the weak scum they are? Hmmm.

[Peking O]

This is partly the reason why i have decided to have no private life. You hear about Dirty Den, his secret lives uncovered. Its more than likely that eventually, someone will come across your stash of dog porn, or your garage of drugs. Clearly, having everything stored in my brain, means that no one can get to it... i hope.

You have a garage full of drugs stored in your brain? Wow. I'm guessing it must be some bad shit if you're still able to type and post here. Damn.

[Gazeuse]

You'll burst a boiler if you keep on like this.

[Peking O]

Everyone has a private life, even innocent holier than thou rabbits, that's why it's called private.

He says, while keeping a keen eye out for any passing scum to capture on his zillion gigabite home security camera system.

[Crazy Penis]

I know plenty of people who use the "I've nothing to hide" line. I've usually replied with "Yes but one day you might have." Meaning it as a joke. But I suppose It's a serious comment to make. I can't recall having a reply to that either.
I do like to know that I can choose to break the law without there being consequences for what I have done. I am a firm believer in the "If they're not hurting anyone then leave them be." phrase. I'd probably have a different point of view if I was completely law abiding, but I'm not and never will be.
I don't like being watched over at work and pranks aside, I've never done anything wrong there. If I'm made to feel uneasy I'm more likely to do something wrong.
I can only compare having an I.D. card to when my family would make comments about drug taking even two years before I started taking drugs. The fact that I felt the sentence had already been passed  made it easier for me to start.
I dont want a card sat in my wallet reminding me of every little thing I've done wrong.

[Pinball]

You'll burst a boiler if you keep on like this.

Who me?