Tories EXTREMELY unfunny.

[Borboski]

The main point of me posting was to say that people always diss tories, always blame them for everything, and completly gloss over the fucking labourite wankers who do worse!.

Tory = 17 (?) years of attacks on the state and local government, totally undermining civic solidarity, deregulation of the markets and general private sector, massive economic recession.

New Labour = Economic prosperity, low consistent low unemployment, reduced crime, minimum wage, devolution, working families tax credit...

Stop fekking whining alright? Remember 1993? I do, it was shite.

Remember the Matrix affair. Aitken, Hamilton, Archer - PROPER corruption?

[Alberon]

My Dad's a tory, not rich or privilaged either, was involved with the local conservative party when he was much younger and was almost pursuaded to run for a local governent seat.

He's pro-european though and doesn't feel that the party reflects him that well anymore.

I've voted Labour most of the times I can over the last decade or so, though I'm not sure what to do with the upcoming ones, I was thinking of Lib Dem, but I'm more worried about the Tories gaining too much ground on Labour. As much as I despise the modern Labour party the idea of the Tories led by Michael fucking Howard is too much.

As for the Iraq war, if it was to remove a brutal dictator (as Saddam was) then why are we still dealing with many equally brutal dictatorships around the world? Why was Blair off having tea with Colonel 'Fartpants' Gaddaffi? He's not the exactly the beacon of democracy is he?*

The Americans know that the origins of Al-Quaida are Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the whole point of this war was to make sure they had an oil-rich friend in the middle-east. It's all blown up in their faces now, and they do run the real risk of turning the whole region against them and destabilising the few friendly regimes it has left.

* And Gaddaffi isn't much better either (I thank you).

[fanny splendid]

Ignoramus.

Firstly the larger bit is larger as in beer larger. Didn't quite work did it.

Oh, you mean lager!

Why should people work at all? Maybe thay shouldn't. Why should I bother driving this bus? why should I bother removing tumors. If I don't become a teacher, someone else will. Wont they?

It would be great if we all lived, but did nothing wouldn't it

It's not a case of doing nothing. I would argue that doctors and teachers are in the professions that they are for reasons that are more varied than purely being in search of a salary. Okay, bus drivers are a little different. I don't know, perhaps there are people out there who love driving buses, I know there are people who love driving trains and cars. I think the technology is available to pretty much make them redundant, anyway. My point is, that given a choice, and by that I mean a true choice, and not one restricted and governed by present social and political laws, the majority of people wouldn't be doing whatever it is they are doing now.

Now, there will be people who will reply to this by suggesting that nothing would happen, not technological changes or refuse collection, would be achieved without the base animal instincts of 'getting one over your fellow man', but I disagree. I don't think competition is so important. I think we are better than that.

Which is why I'm not a capitalist.

[fanny splendid]

As for the Iraq war, if it was to remove a brutal dictator (as Saddam was) then why are we still dealing with many equally brutal dictatorships around the world? Why was Blair off having tea with Colonel 'Fartpants' Gaddaffi? He's not the exactly the beacon of democracy is he?*

Indeed, and why are we currently entertaining the Chinese premiere? It surely can't be all to do with the half-a-billion pounds worth of trade that will come out of this meeting, can it?

China is turning itself into a great business powerhouse. A rapidly emerging free trade economy, with a billion strong slave labour workforce, and no ridiculous labour laws.

China PLC, buy your shares now.

[largerthanlife]

We will all end up part of the Nitrogen Cycle whoever we are.

Lets just all concentrate on taking the piss from those who deserve it.

Like Ann Widicombe

[fanny splendid]

So, you're  a Buddhist, now?

Or a comedian?

Or in the audience at a comedy show where the comedienne is a Tory...

Are you even allowed to say 'comedienne'?

People only take the piss out of Ann Widdecombe because it's easier to emphasise her eccentricity towards current appearance trends, than to engage in a debate with her about her policies.

[largerthanlife]

People only take the piss out of Anne Widdecombe because it's easier to emphasise her eccentricity towards current appearance trends, than to engage in a debate with her about her policies.

Probably because her warped views aren't worth debating.

[fanny splendid]

What warped views?

[MonkeyDrummer]

I do love a good ol' Tory bashing first thing on a Monday.

[largerthanlife]

What warped views?

Zero tolerance policy on drugs.
Opposition to women priests.

[smoker]

why are they warped? they're just views, she's not saying drug users and women priests should be burned at the stake

i think if you read a lot of the threads on here the labour party come in for a lot of stick, easily as much as the tories, though for different reasons.

i can't claim to be expert, since i only really became politically aware around the time of september 11th, but you do seem to be talking a lot of spin here largerthanlife

ps fanny, what did you have on your cereal today, liquid bitchiness? ;)

[fanny splendid]

What warped views?

Zero tolerance policy on drugs.

Drugs are illegal. Why should we tolerate illegal behaviour? You wouldn't tolerate racist behaviour, would you? You're not insinuating that you take drugs, are you?

Opposition to women priests.

This isn't a party, or a political matter. It's one for the Church of England to decide.

[largerthanlife]

Remember the Matrix affair. Aitken, Hamilton, Archer - PROPER corruption?

Yeah, like the PROPER corruption of Peter Mandelson and the hinduja brothers. The Mandelson Robinson affair. [/quote]

[Santa's Boyfriend]

B-N-P!  B-N-P!

[fanny splendid]

ps fanny, what did you have on your cereal today, liquid bitchiness? ;)

I don't think I'm being bitchy. I'm just asking questions, and exploring the beliefs of others.

Anyway, I don't eat cereal. I had bitchy peanut butter...

Fucking crunchy? She does it on purpose. It's almost enough to make me do my own shopping. Almost...

[largerthanlife]

What warped views?

Zero tolerance policy on drugs.

Drugs are illegal. Why should we tolerate illegal behaviour? You wouldn't tolerate racist behaviour, would you? You're not insinuating that you take drugs, are you?

Opposition to women priests.

This isn't a party, or a political matter. It's one for the Church of England to decide.

Fanny, you are right.

But it will be hard to have a zero policy on drugs when no one can be bothered to be a policeman!.

I think also there is a big difference between drug taking and racism. Linking the two is barmy.

[fanny splendid]

B-N-P!  B-N-P!

Better interest rate than Barclays...

[smoker]

I don't think I'm being bitchy. I'm just asking questions, and exploring the beliefs of others.

ignoramus? that's not like you

Fucking crunchy? She does it on purpose. It's almost enough to make me do my own shopping. Almost

what's he got to do with it?

Drugs are illegal. Why should we tolerate illegal behaviour? You wouldn't tolerate racist behaviour, would you? You're not insinuating that you take drugs, are you?

yes but racism is, by and large, inexcusable. whereas there's a lot of room to manouevre on drugs

I think also there is a big difference between drug taking and racism. Linking the two is barmy.

he's not

[MonkeyDrummer]

Please excuse my spelling, I went to state school.

all i want you to do is explain this little nugget. is this meant to be a joke?

[largerthanlife]

Please excuse my spelling, I went to state school.

all i want you to do is explain this little nugget. is this meant to be a joke?

Yes. A joke it was. Just trying to convey the message that athough i'm a tory (center right) I haven't got a high paid job, friends in high places, privilage, rich parents, a private education.

I went to state school and came out with good grades. I'd send my child to state school.

I hope the nugget is explained.

[DuncanC]

Heh. Change racist behaviour to murder and you have that Brass Eye bit about slaughter cafes...

[fanny splendid]

But it will be hard to have a zero policy on drugs when no one can be bothered to be a policeman!

I wasn't arguing in favour of the continued illegality of certain drugs. merely countering your argument within the framework of current drug laws.

Personally, I am in favour in the legalisation of [/i]all[/i] drugs, which I believe, combined with an appropriate level of education, would lead to self regulation, and self policing.

I think also there is a big difference between drug taking and racism. Linking the two is barmy.

Both are currently illegal. You are accusing Widdecombe of being warped because she will not tolerate illegal behaviour. Following your logic, we should allow those who shout 'p**i' to the Indian in the street to do so, because the perpetrator gets pleasure from doing so. They are not linked because they are intrinsically connected, but because they are both forms of illegal behaviour. Both of which are 'tolerated' within certain social and ethnic groups within this country.

[largerthanlife]

Both are currently illegal. You are accusing Widdecombe of being warped because she will not tolerate illegal behaviour. Following your logic, we should allow those who shout 'p**i' to the Indian in the street to do so, because the perpetrator gets pleasure from doing so. They are not linked because they are intrinsically connected, but because they are both forms of illegal behaviour. Both of which are 'tolerated' within certain social and ethnic groups within this country.

However one hurts others and has no benificial effects. The other can only 'hurt' the person 'using'. You probably will argue that drug taking does hurt other through theft etc. I agree. But someone smoking a spliff is isn't going to harm/hurt anyone else. Someone doing a Ron Atkinson offends/hurts many.

[fanny splendid]

I don't think I'm being bitchy. I'm just asking questions, and exploring the beliefs of others.

ignoramus? that's not like you

Ah, okay.




Edit: nevermind.

[king mob]

Remember the Matrix affair. Aitken, Hamilton, Archer - PROPER corruption?

Yeah, like the PROPER corruption of Peter Mandelson and the hinduja brothers. The Mandelson Robinson affair.

[/quote]

The Westminster housing fiasco, Heseltine & the Westland affair, the General Belgrano cover up, Thatcher's part in selling weapons to Iraq just before Gulf War1, Back to Basics, Poll Tax,Clause 28.

Now thats a taste to add to the scandals the tories inflicted on this country, i am nowhere near excusing the mess Labour have us in right now but the Tories were in it at the expense of us as a people & and as a Nation from day one.
At least Labour have done something to help out with social policies, something the Tories never cared for as it wouldnt have made them any money.
The Tories are nothing like the party that was around pre Thatcher, they're right wing & callous & you cant fool people as they remember what it was like when they were in power & Howard is still a evil bastard.

[fanny splendid]

However one hurts others and has no benificial effects. The other can only 'hurt' the person 'using'. You probably will argue that drug taking does hurt other through theft etc. I agree. But someone smoking a spliff is isn't going to harm/hurt anyone else. Someone doing a Ron Atkinson offends/hurts many.

Why can't those being racially abused just ignore it?

Maybe the point of being racist is to have fun and relax, which is beneficial. Beneficial not only to the person doing the abusing, but also to the majority. A capitalist society needs an underclass. Whether that be the jobless, the single mothers, or the immigrants, it gives the low paid working class something to rail against. It makes them feel better about their own life. No matter how bad things get, they're not that bad.

However, I'm just being picky.

[hotvans]

[You are accusing Widdecombe of being warped because she will not tolerate illegal behaviour. quote]

um not exactly the same argument but if anyone wants to see what ann the oh so liberal against law breaking etc thinks have a look at a comment in yesterdays independent - she is warped oh yes

http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=519398

[fanny splendid]

I am in no way a fan of Ms Widdecombe.

I just can't see how you can call yourself a Tory, and think her Ideas are warped. Her way works. It's just not a very nice, or fair way of doing things. It would get results, though. Results that would be beneficial to a right wing government, and beneficial to say perhaps the young Tory entrepreneur looking to start his own business.




To most of you out there, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, anyway.

[MonkeyDrummer]

Yes. A joke it was. Just trying to convey the message that athough i'm a tory (center right) I haven't got a high paid job, friends in high places, privilage, rich parents, a private education.

I thought you were trying to convey the message that you can't spell because you went to state school.

[megatwat]

beneficial to a right wing government

Why does everyone on here associate ALL tories with being autoritarian and socially illiberal. That applies to SOME authoritarian tories, but it is the natural preserve of the nanny state loving left.

The next stage for conservatism in this country is to recognise that economic liberalism is correct and we have won the argument on that one, but to then move forwards into the social liberalism which ic also naturally a tory set of beliefs.

If the tories got their act together, thre would be no need for a liberal party, because they would be that party. The tories should go into the next election promising lower taxes and more efficient publice services l;ike they always do, but they should also move into other areas. They should talk about legalising cannabis, welcoming EXTRA immigrants (we will need them as the baby boomers retire), making our prison system more about reform and an ethical foreign policy.

All of this is ideologically compatable and VERY right wing. The reason most of you guys don't think it is right wing is because you have a biased view of what being right wing is. A view partially generated by Thatcher (economically but not socially liberal) and partially generated by so-called intellectuals.