Tories EXTREMELY unfunny.

[Nearly Annually]

Diddly diddly diddly diddly muahaha.

[largerthanlife]

So we should have carried on subsidising them?

[fanny splendid]

Sing and rejoice!

[fanny splendid]

So we should have carried on subsidising them?

And we don't now?

We never offer tax breaks and grants, and great wads full of tax payers money to industries, both privatised, Plc, and Ltd, now?

Why aren't you at work?

[chand]

So we should have carried on subsidising them?

Even that great bastion of laissez-faire economics, the USA, subsidises some of its own industries (notably agriculture). Sometimes the state has to pick up where capitalism fails.

[hencole]

All privartisation does is add profits for individuals into the equation. They therefore are wasteful and have to find the money somewhere which turns into a) higher price b) shodier product or c) shitter rights for workers d) all three. Simple really, even a GCSE student could do the maths. Why don't politicians relaise this, or am I missing some secret rule of economics here?

[MojoJojo]

Gah, some tory MP who's diaries were published (may have been Alan Clarke, this was quite awhile a go and it was my brother that read it) was the unemployment minister in the last tory government. His entire job was trying to work out ways of fiddling the numbers... nothing to do with actual unemployment, because that was the treasuries job.

Are you honestly saying that you think the current unemployment figures are not something that Labour Government should be proud of?  They are probably far more honest than under the last tory government, simply 'cos they don't have anything to hide.

And yes, many people now employed are in crappy jobs. That is still considerably better than being unemployed, which drags the entire job market down.

Oh just like to mention Minimum Wage, which was opposed by the tories on the grounds that it would cause unemployment. Shows what they know about unemployment.

So, can anyone here honestly say that labour has not managed the economy well? And have the tax rises been an unbearable burden upon you? Or do you not care what happens to the economy and public services (because you work hard, you are guaranteed finacial security, no matter what, obviously), but think having an extra £50 in your pay slip every month would be nice?

[largerthanlife]

So we should have carried on subsidising them?

And we don't now?

We never offer tax breaks and grants, and great wads full of tax payers money to industries, both privatised, Plc, and Ltd, now?

Why aren't you at work?

I am at work, thanks for your concern.

We may subsidise companies now, but not to the extent of the 70's 80's. Government isn't there to run business, its job is to run the country. Thats its business. I admit some of the privateisation were completly fucked up, but others wern't.

This thread is going nowhere. I suggest we all eat cake.

[fanny splendid]

The, not-so-secret-rule of economics is, that if you personally benefit, for no matter how long, or how little, then it's a good idea.

[Nearly Annually]

largerthanlife, earlier.

[fanny splendid]

I am at work, thanks for your concern.

Is it your company, or are you stealing from your employer?

We may subsidise companies now, but not to the extent of the 70's 80's. Government isn't there to run business, its job is to run the country. Thats its business. I admit some of the privateisation were completly fucked up, but others wern't.

When we owned the companies, it was in our interest to invest in them.

[largerthanlife]

When we owned the companies, it was in our interest to invest in them.

Not quite, we didn't invest, we were blead by unions. There is a difference in investing and throwing money at red tape.

I'm not stealing from my employer. I get an hours lunch which I take in bits over the day.

Why aren't you at work? Or are you living life?

[fanny splendid]

Not quite, we didn't invest, we were blead by unions. There is a difference in investing and throwing money at red tape.

Are you just picking random sentences from the Blue Bible, now?

I'm not stealing from my employer. I get an hours lunch which I take in bits over the day.

Why aren't you at work? Or are you living life?

You're lucky you have a lunch hour. Those pesky unions, eh?

I am self-employed.  

I work as I see fit.

[glitch]

Does that make the liberals Panda Pop?

Only if it means that the BNP is Fanta ;)

[megatwat]

Bloody hell! You go away to do some work and it all kicks off doesn't it?

Doesn't that mean you should support the Lib Dems then?

No, there 3 reasons I could never vote lib dem. They are very pro-europe, they support unilateral nuclear dissarmament and they are against all nuclear power.

Megatwat didn't say anything with his tax cut post. He suggested an extremely hypothetical and simplistic scenario.

Bit difficult to do anything else when you are talking about a general principle. That principle being that there must be an optimum level for taxation and that we are approaching or have just exceeded it, and that in the fullness of time, that optimum level can drop.

As far as industry goes, I think you have to play it by ear. I have some close experience of the utilities and think privatising them was a mistake. The way in which the railways were privatised was also a mistake. Most other privatisations were very good ideas and have served us well. The stupidest privatisation I have ever seen is Blair's privatisation of DERA (defence research thingy).

And for the record, I think the BNP are cheap supermarket orangade. It seduces people with no taste, but in general it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

[largerthanlife]

And for the record, I think the BNP are cheap supermarket orangade. It seduces people with no taste, but in general it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

OK, I have to ask. Who would be Rola-Cola? (Any Peter Kay fans?)

[chand]

Bit difficult to do anything else when you are talking about a general principle. That principle being that there must be an optimum level for taxation and that we are approaching or have just exceeded it, and that in the fullness of time, that optimum level can drop.

Of course there's an optimum level. 0% taxation is too little, 100% is too much. However, given the state of our economy I'd suggest that we're not doing too badly.

[thomasina]

The only reason I couldn't be bothered posting more than once in this thread before was because I have no interest in defending Blair, Blunkett and Mandelson.  BUT -

they, their spin, their 'Teflon' qualities, their 'I'm not a racist, but I don't want to alienate those of you who are..' policies, all the things I hate about them, i blame on Thatcherism.

Those 17 years made some deep, deep cultural scars which are still there.  

The things we whine about on this board, the chavs, the cunts, the culture in which generations are brought up to think that the only purpose in life is to acquire as much as possible for as little effort as it takes - Does anyone else see a link to phrases like 'There is no such thing as society...' ?  Yuppie cunts/chav handbag-snatchers - both believe that little piece of wisdom, don't they?  The whole premise of  Thatcher's political philosophy was that human motivation is to grab as much as you can for yourself.   Therefore, you cut taxes - more money in your pocket, who gives a shit about public services?  

The culture in which our most prized role models are bling-encrusted parasites who've 'done well for themselves' - we don't have any right to criticize that.  If the single universal human quality is the urge to have stuff,  those who have the most are logically the most perfectly developed human beings and deserve everything they get.

The privatised industries - those we now describe as 'businesses' - we thought of them as services.  Why do we whine now about crap public transport systems, when, by definition, their function is not to provide a service, but to make a profit?  

The trouble is, New Labour bought into this shite too - they were told that it was the only way to get re-elected and they went for it.  And some things have been genuinely beneficial and genuinely popular - tax credits mean that the vast majority of families are genuinely better off working.   The New Deal for 18-25's, for a while, genuinely did mean that young people who needed a job or a training place could get one.  But the culture of selfishness, the perceived need to appease Daily Mail readers instead of educating them and the political method of getting yourself out of trouble by word manipulation is so deep in some of the stuff that this government does that it sickens me.

[megatwat]

Who would be Rola-Cola?

Hmmmm, tricky. The natural law party?

[largerthanlife]

I was thinking UKIP might be Rola Cola.