The best thing he [Morris] has done?

[El Unicornio, mang]

Slightly off-topic, but in relation to the BES, I've noticed that over here there doesn;t seem to be half as much of a 'taboo' regarding paedophilia. Comedy shows regularly make jokes about the subject, and satirical shows aren't afraid to make gags about news stories involving children being sexually abused, something which seems to be a no-no in the UK.

American films, too, seem not to have a problem with it. I watched Great Balls of Fire the other day, and the scene in which Jerry Lee Lewis has sex with his 13-year old bride is presented in a very jovial, light-hearted way (interestingly, it was the British press who got him in trouble). Also, there's that great joke in National Lampoon's Vacation when the young girl is discussing french kissing and says "Daddy says I'm the best at it".

I really don't think there'd have been much fuss if the BES had been shown here. Odd, given that the US is so much more puritan than the UK (although Japan is even more sexually repressed and they produce stuff which is far beyond what either countries produce.)

[alan strang]

Even if it had been 'camp' (which it wasn't), what's the fucking point of parodying a documentary about some children who were murdered with shocking brutality in the 1980s but whose killers were never fully brought to justice because of an arbitrary decision by the DPP? Who's it supposed to be 'satirising' with its witty jokes about the fact that one of them was abused to death by a gang of men in a caravan? The victims' families? The victims themselves? Ooof, bang on target there

Oh TJ, stop being so 'reactionary'! Honestly, you're just like the Daily Mail. Or Jim Davidson.

[Lumiere]

American films, too, seem not to have a problem with it. I watched Great Balls of Fire the other day, and the scene in which Jerry Lee Lewis has sex with his 13-year old bride is presented in a very jovial, light-hearted way.

Very odd. I guess because there had been so much (un-justified) controversy over earlier BE episodes, and Morris was somewhat the tabloid whipping boy.

[TJ]

I didn't actually see the documentary in question so find the discussion of it very interesting.  I think that, knowing his opinion of it, I find it a bit strange that he stuck in the "This was the last thing..." gag.  Something bothers me about that, it seems like an own goal.

Short summary of the doc - in the mid-1980s, several young boys were killed - literally abused to death - by a group of paedophiles than included Sidney Cooke, Leslie Bailey and around a dozen or so other men. There are three confirmed victims, one of whose body has never been found, and possibly a dozen or so rent boys who nobody missed. In fact, none of the disappearances, murders or even trials ever gained that much attention from the papers, at least in comparison to other similar cases, leading to the police team investigating the murders to dub them 'The Lost Boys'.

Cooke, Bailey and two others were convicted of one murder. Bailey confessed to all of the others (including ones that the Police were never able to put names to), but the DPP decided that he had a reputation as a 'fantasist' and so the other individuals could not be brought to trial. Bailey was later killed in his cell by another inmate; the others served a token amount of time for 'manslaughter' (clearly because killing a teenage runaway from a broken home doesn't count as 'murder') and were released in the late 1990s.

Which is where the documentary came in. Made shortly after they were all released, it sought to investigate why they had never been brought to account for crimes they were clearly and unarguably guilty of. The documentary maker traced the history of the whole sickening (in the literal sense) story, interviewing men who had survived attacks at their hands as children, the victims' families, people who gave evidence in court, and a detective who reputedly lunged at the DPP in desperation and anger when he was told they could not be brought to trial. They also visited Cooke's caravan, still in the same place as it was when the boy who has never been found was murdered. Aside from a couple of possibly ill-judged linking devices, there was no Vordermanesque sensationalism, simply an attempt to tell an uncomfortable story that has otherwise not been told. It was shocking, but in all honesty, the actual details are shocking.

I know what's what in terms of cheap, senstationalist, lying television. And I did not come away from that programme 'infuriated'. Well, not in the sense that TV's Mr Satires implied, anyway.

[TJ]

Oh TJ, stop being so 'reactionary'! Honestly, you're just like the Daily Mail. Or Jim Davidson.

Yeah, I know. Morris is a Godlike Genius, I think I'll find, and what he was essentially trying to do was satirise how the media presents the issue. Keep in mind he's got us a lot of machines. Sit Ubu, Sit.

[Pulped Yam]

This is my first proper visit to the site - came to the internet late.

I've still got a shitload of stuff to check out (I'm only six) particularly the GLR/Radio 1 stuff, so I can't claim to be comprehensive in my knowledge, but from his TV stuff, I'd have to nominate Jam. TDT and BE work brilliantly as satire, and are more consistently hilarious, but Jam genuinely approaches art; it's just on another level. The mood, the visuals, the command of how surrealism works, the language, the maddeningness of it. My best individual sketch would either be bending over for Ryan or the 40/1 - 1/40 suicide - just the way it's delivered. There are a few sketches that don't work too well, and it's not all side splittingly hilarious, but I don't think that's always the point.

Also, the monologues from Blue Jam, and also the Geefe columns - no-one has the same mastery of language as he has.

[Neil]

but Jam genuinely approaches art; it's just on another level.

That's what really pisses me off.  Ever since I first heard that he'd be displaying the show as part of the London Tokyo Exhibition at the Barbican,  I have felt that Morris has gone right up his own arse.  And now he's moving into Directing...  is he too important to piss about on the fucking radio these days?  Is playing a casio keyboard over songs a bit too uncultured for our darling "media terrorist"?  What about his refusal to go back on the Breezeblock after the BES, because he "had to think very carefully about what his first public appearance would be after the show."  I get the feeling he's started taking his work, if not himself, far too seriously.

[Jemble Fred]

That's my complaint about pretty much every comedian I've ever admired. It seems that fun counts for nothing these days.

[Peking O]

but Jam genuinely approaches art; it's just on another level.

That's what really pisses me off.  Ever since I first heard that he'd be displaying the show as part of the London Tokyo Exhibition at the Barbican,  I have felt that Morris has gone right up his own arse.  And now he's moving into Directing...  is he too important to piss about on the fucking radio these days?  Is playing a casio keyboard over songs a bit too uncultured for our darling "media terrorist"?  What about his refusal to go back on the Breezeblock after the BES, because he "had to think very carefully about what his first public appearance would be after the show."  I get the feeling he's started taking his work, if not himself, far too seriously.

I agree with you to some extent, but if he started pissing about with a casio again I bet there'd be a slew of posts on here about him lazily repeating old ideas. I'd guess that he wants to go into directing to try out something new...

[hencole]

Brass eye special was the best individual episode (most complete, and the one with a point to make), but I prefer the day today as a series.

Slightly off-topic, but in relation to the BES, I've noticed that over here there doesn;t seem to be half as much of a 'taboo' regarding paedophilia. Comedy shows regularly make jokes about the subject, and satirical shows aren't afraid to make gags about news stories involving children being sexually abused, something which seems to be a no-no in the UK.

Don't think thats true. Plenty of programmes make jokes about paedophillia, particularly in relation to the clergy.

[Pulped Yam]

I mean art in it does something completely unexpected and completely original; there are precedents for TDT and BE, but Blue Jam / Jam and takes you somewhere else; it contains the most subversive use of language, logic and ethics and manages to be f**king hilarious - at its peak moments I've laughed more than BE has made me laugh. I dunno, you can call it pretentious that he's showing it in art galleries, but fair enough... It's natural medium is TV and radio, but if it works in a gallery, why the hell not? It's better that's thought of as art than unmade beds and graffitied pottery.

I think he's always taken risks and raised the bar with each of his new projects - going back to pissing about on radio would be fun - like I say, I'm yet to hear most of this material - but you can understand why he wouldn't want to retread over the same ground. I guess he's in a really difficult position now, a victim of his own success and notoriety, and the fact that most of the media idolise him, and the other half are too suspicious of him for much of his stuff to work. (I'm sure there's been a lot of discussion about this here before)... Also, he's influenced so much of the comedy around now; even if no-one can match his stuff, he's been at the vanguard of a lot of current trends.

I think the thing he's uniquely brilliant at is subverting language - like the Geefe columns and the Blue Jam monologues - no-one else can write like that... I hope whatever he comes up gives full vent to that.

[Purple Tentacle]

it contains the most subversive use of language (......) and manages to be f**king hilarious

Hee hee.

[DuncanC]

I think the thing he's uniquely brilliant at is subverting language - like the Geefe columns and the Blue Jam monologues - no-one else can write like that...

Except, maybe, Robert Katz.

[thatmuch]

I mean art in it does something completely unexpected and completely original; there are precedents for TDT and BE, but Blue Jam / Jam and takes you somewhere else; it contains the most subversive use of language, logic and ethics and manages to be f**king hilarious

I don't really think the word 'subversive' means anything any more. It's much too optimistic about the effect art can have on people (and what exactly is being subverted anyway?).
Otherwise I agree with you about Blue Jam, although as the other people are pointing out, it wasn't all his own work. It does mess around with language, logic and ethics in a really exceptional way, and deadly funny. In terms of its effect on me, and my mentality, nothing on radio or television has approached it.

[Lumiere]

There are a few sketches that don't work too well...
.

Like the bending over for ryan sketch.

[mayer]

i really liked Jam, it was the first Morris thing i ever saw/heard and i really enjoyed it, but i have to disagree with much of what Pulped Yam has said (sorry, and sorry if i sound like a whinging bitch when you've only just got here)

I think he's always taken risks and raised the bar with each of his new projects - going back to pissing about on radio would be fun - like I say, I'm yet to hear most of this material - but you can understand why he wouldn't want to retread over the same ground.

like i said, i loved Jam, but that was in the main going over old material in a new format no?

It's better that's thought of as art than unmade beds and graffitied pottery.

*looks around for the Saatchi Fire and John Cage threads.* Emin is an artist. she creates art. just because you don't like it it doesn't make it any less artistic. i was watching Yes, Minister on UK Gold yesterday evening.

CIVIL SERVANT: Art and Television together? But they're complete opposites!

your inverted snobbery is no different.


pointless and rather bitchy aside:

f**king hilarious

ok, that just annoys me anyway. if you're a sweary type, go for it... if not, just say "really hilarious"[/size]

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Surely all comedy is art, whether put into a bloody gallery to show off to the self-same people Morris satirises in those monologues or not?

I'd say the Jimmy Tinker inserts from OTH have more artistic merit than Jam - which plays up to a large number of preconceptions people have about art.

[RHX]

There are a few sketches that don't work too well...
.

Like the bending over for ryan sketch.

That's one of the four Jam sketches I have seen (I know I should see the rest before I comment), but I felt that they were over-acting with the low, slurred speech, which works on radio as it's the best way to get the situation across, but on camera just seemed like being forced for "weird's" sake. I still found it funny, but I didn't like the way they spoke in the sketch. Maybe I'm just a picky git.

[Lumiere]

I found it exceedingly boring. Three people sitting around a table, slurring their words. The premise could have been funny, but it's not done very well. Also, the distorted visuals are rather lame. I think that scene epitomises a lot that's wrong with JAM - a scene that was fine on the radio is tedious on TV, just because nothing's happening.

[Pulped Yam]

Jesus - looks like I've stepped into a hornet's nest without really thinking. Should have known to take care with wording on a Morris site. Oh well, I take the points you've made - of course Katz co-wrote Geefe, Jam was a re-hash of Blue Jam, and asterisks are just habit, having been thrown off other forums for swearing... So yeah, I still think Blue Jam/Jam is the best thing he's ever done, for more or less the reasons I've said above. Pretentious twat that I am...

[hencole]

pointless and rather bitchy aside:

f**king hilarious

ok, that just annoys me anyway. if you're a sweary type, go for it... if not, just say "really hilarious"[/size]

Pointless and bitchy yet still said. Well done. If someone thinks somehting is fucking hilarious then they think its fucking hilarious. Really hilarious doesn't convey how fucking hilarious he found it. At least he blanked out the offending letters. ; )

[thatmuch]

Jesus - looks like I've stepped into a hornet's nest without really thinking. Should have known to take care with wording on a Morris site. Oh well, I take the points you've made - of course Katz co-wrote Geefe, Jam was a re-hash of Blue Jam, and asterisks are just habit, having been thrown off other forums for swearing... So yeah, I still think Blue Jam/Jam is the best thing he's ever done, for more or less the reasons I've said above. Pretentious twat that I am...

Don't let them knock it out of you. There aren't nearly enough pretentious twats on this forum.

[hencole]

wooo! nice to finally get some details on the fucker.

i reckon that the Sun writers will just distract us with a bullshit headline apology, no doubt before pissing on us and rifling through our pockets. EDIT. the fucking scum.

Mayer, a prize to you if you can guess which member of the forums said the above? No clues I'm afraid!

EDIT: Sorry just realised your annoyed at the stars rather than the word. F**k

[Fur Q]

I'm torn between Blue Jam and Brass Eye, both excellent in their own way.

[Lumiere]

I must listen to more Blue Jam.

[Shade]

Out of the four or five new sketches on Jam, "Overprotective Parents" was probably my favourite. I just love watching the parents slowly break Kevin Eldon's character down.

As for my favourites, probably Brasseye, since it was what got me interested in Morris, and Blue Jam, as it was his first bit of radio work I heard.

[mayer]

EDIT: Sorry just realised your annoyed at the stars rather than the word. F**k

heh, no worries.

just to re-iterate... i fucking love Jam.... and i love Blue Jam as well. i never saw all of TDT till the DVD came out.... it's fantastic too. Brass Eye i like, but, as i mentioned in a CC thread ages ago i don't like most of the celeb-duping. even if you're doing satire, that's unnecessary. the jam festival bit in TDT was funnier than all the celeb bits in BE.


the radio stuff i've got from here is fantastic, especially the Music Show, as Morris unfortunately pisses on every R1/XFM/Whatever DJ about now even based only on the tunes he plays.


i loved Bending Over For Ryan, i loved all the weird bits in Jam, i loved the idea and the excecution  of Jaaaaammmmmm (though i would've mixed/changed around the music up just a touch more), and i think that re-hash of material or not, Jam was an amazing, original, funny and interesting show. i thought (and think) it was fucking great.


EDIT: er, to answer the question... Blue Jam and the Music Shows. and of the telly lot, Jam and TDT neck and neck.

[RHX]

Jam was an amazing, original, funny and interesting show.

Reading this reminded me of something I've been wondering for a while (which may have been asked before, I don't know):

Would people have liked Jam more had Blue Jam never existed, and the show was straight to TV instead?

(I've yet to form a decent opinion on Jam so far, as I've only seen the first 4 sketches of Episode 1 - I'm getting the DVD early next week so I'll be able to answer my own question)

[Lumiere]

I saw JAM before I heard Blue Jam...some bits of JAM I found bloody funny, some truly unfunny. A lot of the unfunny stuff I found worked excellently upon hearing it on Blue Jam, merely because the boring visuals were gone and the atmosphere Blue Jam created formed the perfect backdrop.

Also, you must do more than watch the first four scenes of JAM ep. 1. That is the worst episode by far.

[Shade]

What? Episode one had some great sketches:

Over protective parents
Doc Knee(better than the Blue Jam version)
Symptomless coma
4ft car
Kilroy losing his mind
and that rape sketch.

Plus a few random filler sketches.