Cook'd and Bomb'd

Forums => General Bullshit => Topic started by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 30, 2020, 03:56:03 PM

Title: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 30, 2020, 03:56:03 PM
Hey, so I think the last Beers thread is locked. Most people I talk to are getting used to home drinking, which is not something I have favoured over the years, much prefer the pub. But due to Coronavirus it seems like a good time to discuss what we are drinking and where we are sourcing some good deals right now.

I picked up 12 x Bocktoberfest Doppelbock 440m cans from Vocation & Co for £34

By sharp contrast I just found a mixed Brooklyn pack of 12 x 355ml cans - at Home Bargains of all places - for the ridiculous price of £6.99

How are the online stores doing right now? Any good voucher codes/deals?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pink Gregory on March 30, 2020, 04:49:33 PM
Picked up a box of Moor beer cans for the lockdown, haven't done much of making it last; only had the core range which is a shame, but still excellent beers.  Two stouts, two porters, one IPA and one bitter left.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on March 30, 2020, 05:15:48 PM
By sharp contrast I just found a mixed Brooklyn pack of 12 x 355ml cans - at Home Bargains of all places - for the ridiculous price of £6.99


Was that online or in store?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 30, 2020, 05:22:20 PM
Was that online or in store?

In store!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on March 30, 2020, 05:22:26 PM
Wer bestellte dunkel?


(https://i.imgur.com/vKwTyAX.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 30, 2020, 05:39:30 PM
Ooh you fucker

Gutmann and Weltenburger are fantastic. Haven't had a bad anything they have done. I don't recognise 3rd from the left and 4th from the right.

The Vitus will be a pale Weizenbock though, if you haven't had one of those yet.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on March 30, 2020, 05:42:09 PM
I would say Paulaner Salvator, but I've just spotted the Ayinger Celebrator. That's one immense beer (and you get a free toy goat too).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on March 30, 2020, 05:51:14 PM
I don't recognise 3rd from the left and 4th from the right.

Looks like a Dampfbierbrauerei Zwiesel Dunkel Hefeweisse and a Hofbrauhaus Freising Dunkel to me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Voltan (Man of Steel) on March 30, 2020, 06:06:16 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/D05Z3KZg/C99191-AA-9-D09-42-FE-9-BD9-67-B616-BA277-C.jpg)

Sorry to lower the tone. Holsten for me, Stella for my better half. (I’m as common as shit, me).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on March 30, 2020, 06:17:28 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/D05Z3KZg/C99191-AA-9-D09-42-FE-9-BD9-67-B616-BA277-C.jpg)

Sorry to lower the tone. Holsten for me, Stella for my better half. (I’m as common as shit, me).

Nice. I like that your better half only gets half as much beer just to balance things out.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: gib on March 30, 2020, 06:29:04 PM
Just had 3 cases of Maldon Gold delivered and a case of Nut Bastard. The latter is a bit too strong for my tastes but i got a good price so will get it down me. They seemed keen to shift some stock now the pubs aren't taking it, so i would suggest asking your local brewery if they are now doing home deliveries.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on March 30, 2020, 07:22:12 PM
The Vitus will be a pale Weizenbock though, if you haven't had one of those yet

Vitus is pretty much my favourite beer, so I had to sneak one onto the order. Had the Gutmann (from Titting! Who says the Germans don't have a sense of humour?) last night, it was a little more delicate than the very liquorishy Erdinger dunkels I'm used to but bloody lovely.

I was intending to make this order last a month. Not sure if I'll manage to make it last until the end of tomorrow night.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on March 30, 2020, 08:25:06 PM
My Beerhawk order has been dispatched!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: purlieu on March 30, 2020, 08:33:32 PM
Wer bestellte dunkel?


(https://i.imgur.com/vKwTyAX.jpg)
Well this looks bloody great.
Here's my haul from last week:
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0jbCKYC/germanbeer1.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Voltan (Man of Steel) on March 30, 2020, 08:38:29 PM
Nice. I like that your better half only gets half as much beer just to balance things out.

We both started with the same amount but she drinks more than I do. She’s also likely to bully me out of my share if I’m not careful.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on March 30, 2020, 08:47:54 PM
What's the best lager I can buy in a supermarket? I've tend to have a bit of a thirst come Friday and like something cool and relatively light on the palate that I can quaff a couple of pints of before opening something to savour. I've been finding most wheat beer a little sweet and heavy for this. Anything overly hoppy isn't refreshing in the way I want. Last Friday I picked up a couple of 660ml bottles of Brewdog's dry hopped pilsner (I think it was called Lost Lager) and while I'm fairly clueless on pilsners so don't have much of a frame of reference, that seemed fine and hit the spot.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: purlieu on March 30, 2020, 08:50:41 PM
Pilsner Urqell, if you can find it, is probably as good a bottled lager as you'll find in a supermarket.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on March 30, 2020, 08:52:23 PM
I spotted a Sainsbury's in Sheffield had begun selling can six-packs of urqell. I'll keep an eye out for it but I reckon it's 50/50 at best it'll be in any of the smaller stores round here
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on March 30, 2020, 08:54:20 PM
Good shout on the Urquell. If you can't get that, you usually can't go wrong with Italian lagers like Peroni or Birra Moretti. I've heard Menabrea is supposed to be nice too, but haven't got around to trying it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: idunnosomename on March 30, 2020, 09:05:41 PM
home bargains had a load of sadler's bottles for a quid the other day but because they dont have buying limits there were none left today

bottles of bass from asda for a pound each it is
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DolphinFace on March 30, 2020, 09:08:33 PM
staropramen is widely available and up there with Urquell.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: purlieu on March 30, 2020, 09:22:11 PM
I spotted a Sainsbury's in Sheffield had begun selling can six-packs of urqell. I'll keep an eye out for it but I reckon it's 50/50 at best it'll be in any of the smaller stores round here
I find it a bit sickly in cans for some reason.

Staropramen is a decent second choice to Urquell, definitely.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 30, 2020, 09:54:33 PM
Quote
What's the best lager I can buy in a supermarket?

Lost Lager isn't too bad, I didn't think. I think Brooklyn Lager is a passable Vienna Lager considering its in a mainstream market.

As for supermarket lager, Krombacher is a stock German pils that's superior to the rest of them, Becks, etc...the flavour balance is correct.

Budvar is in my view the best of the Czech options. I think the fact it is nearer helles than pilsner in character gives it more of a chance in bottled or canned form. Staropramen fine but the stuff is brewed under license and seems to be all over the place quality wise. One day surprisingly good, the other, pure shit gloop. Pilsner Urquell...? Well... I really don't rate it unless it is tapped. The higher bitterness really works when it's on tap with the thicker smoother texture. I wouldn't choose it.

If you try M&S, Booths, Waitrose you might find stuff like Hacker Pschorr and Paulaner's helles which are always a step up.

If you can get the Belgian export Stella Artois I still have a soft spot for it.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on March 31, 2020, 07:04:38 AM
Noted, thanks. Perhaps I'll revisit Brooklyn Lager, it's been a long time since I last drunk it.

Do Camden make anything good? It's one of those cans of beer that I always notice in hedges or left on the grass after BBQs and so perhaps unfairly I have always assumed it is S4C
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on March 31, 2020, 07:46:42 AM
If cost and availability were no object, what five beers would you recommend someone to try?

I really like the Trappist/Abbey stuff I've tried but I also really enjoy a generic beardman IPA of any variety. I just don't drink very much at home besides wine and if I fancy a decent beer I usually go the pub.

Now is my chance to go for it. Shoulders, please do your best.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on March 31, 2020, 08:31:16 AM
Westvleteren 12 would surely be near the top of anyone's list. Bloody hard to find though.

Other than that, I'd recommend the following German beers (not being racist, it's just where my beer smarts have been focused):

Ayinger Celebrator: Mentioned earlier in the thread, this is a stunning example of a doppelbock. Shame the bottles are so small, but they were probably thinking of our health and safety. It's only 6.7% but hits you like a truck.

Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Märzen: The classic smoked beer from Bamberg. Not exactly a session beer, but if you've ever fancied drinking liquidised bacon, it'll be right up your Strasse. Some people reckon their Fastenbier is even better, but this is probably the best place to start.

Schneider Weisse Aventinus: Can't believe that some places in the UK actually have this on tap. Lucky bastards. Another corking doppelbock which tastes like some mad fruity chocolate dessert.

Paulaner Hefe-Weissbier: You can get this down M&S and Majestic usually have cases of it too. I know S?-S! will probably want to fight me, but this is simply the best wheat beer in the world. Every sip tastes of sunshine. First time I tried it was at the Chinesischer Turm in Munich, finished the last glorious gulp, then immediately noticed a topless woman riding a massive white horse around the Englischer Garten. Still not sure if I was hallucinating to this day.

Sorry that this post was so Teutonic. Hopefully someone can chip in with some other suggestions to scratch your IPA itch.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on March 31, 2020, 11:00:23 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/F4MJgRD/c03e8257-ef38-4c43-89b0-0b45b6d7c933.jpg) (https://ibb.co/23QPgGk)
(https://i.ibb.co/DG54Bv8/50-FF26-EE-2-CD4-4571-BB80-D9877685-E211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pWJ2HMR)

A

B A+ B- B A+ A
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: poodlefaker on March 31, 2020, 11:44:27 AM
For everyday at-home necking I favour St Austell Proper Job: six quid for four 500ml bottles at my local Asda, which seems crazily cheap. It's bottle-conditioned, which gives it the "pint-of-real-ale-in-the-pub" character I require, esp. if you leave it for a while so it goes a bit flat.

The quality of some bottle-conditioned beers can be very variable, esp. from smaller brewers, but  I've never had a duff bottle of this.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on March 31, 2020, 11:55:59 AM
Got a Beerwulf order on the way (or it better fucking be)

4    Corsendonk Agnus Tripel    
4    De Koninck Triple D'Anvers    
4    Hapkin    
4    Lefort Tripel

Might have to just order that again for when it runs out
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 31, 2020, 12:45:24 PM
Quote
If cost and availability were no object, what five beers would you recommend someone to try?

I haven't tried too many mega expensive or mega rare beers but can definitely have a crack at answering this question.

I am first mindful that the craft scene has brought a lot of styles back in fashion, Gose, Porter, Stout etc, and so I will be focusing on styles that have been generally passed over.

In no order at all:

1) Rodenbach Grand Cru / Duchess de Bourgogne

The Flemish Red/Oud Bruin styles are a real breakthrough for anyone looking to widen their palate. Tends to be divisive. Some people immediately love it, others can't get their head around it. The former is more sour and oaken in flavour, with hints of cherries and reddish in flavour. The latter has more of a Balsamic vinegar element. I couldn't boil it down to 1 as these 2 tend to divide. This style is a must try purely for the potential for your beer love to reach new heights.

See also: Vichtenaar, VanderGhinste, Ichtegems, Petrus Aged Red, Bacchus Oud Bruin

2) Schneider Weisse Aventinus / Hopf Muospacher Bockfotzn

Dark, strong wheat Bock. Rich, thick, complex and holistically satisfying on virtually every level. Again, the former is easy to come by, the latter very much not. I never thought I'd say this but the latter may even be slightly better. These are both 5 star beers for me, Clive.

See also: If you can't get hold of either, Erdinger Pikantus is a reasonably tasty alternative.

3) Pilsner Urquell (only on tap, hladinka pour)

Easy option. There are loads of other Czech options I could mention and will do below. On their day I prefer them. But the 'mother's milk', a hladinka pour of Pilsner Urquell is the archetypal Pilsner (Urquell meaning original source, and being brewed in Plzen). The depth of flavour, and sheer smoothness matches what is a strongly hopped lager. Every mouthful provides a balanced but rich satisfying hit. It is as pleasant to sit and savour as it is to knock back. Extra points if you have a pint of their unfiltered version, difficult to come by. Germany brew some great lagers, but their standard pilsners come nowhere close to the vibrancy and richness of Czech pilsner which is poured quickly from a side pull tap with a big head on it. I have had some OK craft pilsners but none have showed a full understanding of the Czech method or the importance of the pour.

See also: Poutnik, Benedict, Bernard, Fabian

4. Kellerbier from the wooden barrel. Mauerscheisser by Krug-Brau is one example.

Kellerbier, also often referred to as Zwickl or Landbier, is a poorly understood, badly marketed and curious style that, a bit like English bitter, can only be properly understood drunk on tap barrel conditioned. Normally I would describe Kellerbier as a cross between a helles lager and a wheatbeer, in the sense that it usually has the crisp finish of a good lager, but being unfiltered has a cloudy thicker texture more like wheatbeer. Like English bitter there can be a fair range of flavours, particularly by German standards, so you can find caramel, biscuity Kellers, dry grainy ones with gentle floral and citrus notes, earthy and richly malty ones. In Germany these are usually served in a stone jug, meaning you can't even properly see what you are drinking! Kellerbier offer some of the most ultimate refreshment, along with Czech lagers, the pinpoint balance between flavour and refreshment. Be warned, craft versions, bottles and cans will not be the best way of experiencing Keller at its best. Possibly the best place to start is at Landbierparadies in Nuremberg.

See also: Pyraser, Zirndorfer, Landwehr, Buttenheim, the list could go on and on.

So... #5.... Where to go from here. A Rauchbier? It was mentioned above so perhaps not. An English bitter? Easily the most interesting of all beer styles, unique, but one everyone will be familiar with and have their own views on. Gueuze? Similarly fascinating and delicious, but 2 sours on a list of 5 would be excessive.

5) Black IPA, so Dark Arches by Northern Monk, Black Ice by Titanic, or Morovy Doktor by Pivovar Zhurak.

Other than the great work done on sour beers, the craft movement's best breakthrough in my opinion has been the Black IPA. Well hopped, usually dryish, with a potential to showcase dark berries, coconut, and malt, for a change. It also works very well on cask, keg, cans and bottles making it versatile and reliable. I have tried 8.5% strength Black IPA and 3.8%, both worked nicely. Though I like Schwarzbier, I think this style overall possesses more potential and rewards exploring.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Marner and Me on March 31, 2020, 12:53:35 PM
Am I weird because I don't drink beer?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 31, 2020, 01:24:37 PM
Am I weird because I don't drink beer?

Depends on the reason.

*sharpens knife*
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: chveik on March 31, 2020, 01:25:36 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/DG54Bv8/50-FF26-EE-2-CD4-4571-BB80-D9877685-E211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pWJ2HMR)

B A+ B- B A+ A

chouffe is no b- beer you fool
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on March 31, 2020, 01:40:53 PM
I haven't tried too many mega expensive or mega rare beers but can definitely have a crack at answering this question.

I am first mindful that the craft scene has brought a lot of styles back in fashion, Gose, Porter, Stout etc, and so I will be focusing on styles that have been generally passed over.

In no order at all:

1) Rodenbach Grand Cru / Duchess de Bourgogne


You've jumped the shark, doomlord. Duchess is rank.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on March 31, 2020, 01:41:44 PM
chouffe is no b- beer you fool

The Carling Black Label of fine Belgian beers, sadly. 1st rate if you've only ever drank Duvel or Leffe, otherwise...
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Marner and Me on March 31, 2020, 01:45:03 PM
Depends on the reason.

*sharpens knife*
Never got the taste for it, I don't know how Fosters, Carling, Carlsberg get away with selling the stuff, it is vile. Prefer a nice rum or whiskey.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: poodlefaker on March 31, 2020, 02:11:47 PM

3) Pilsner Urquell (only on tap, hladinka pour)

Easy option. There are loads of other Czech options I could mention and will do below. On their day I prefer them. But the 'mother's milk', a hladinka pour of Pilsner Urquell is the archetypal Pilsner (Urquell meaning original source, and being brewed in Plzen). The depth of flavour, and sheer smoothness matches what is a strongly hopped lager. Every mouthful provides a balanced but rich satisfying hit. It is as pleasant to sit and savour as it is to knock back. Extra points if you have a pint of their unfiltered version, difficult to come by. Germany brew some great lagers, but their standard pilsners come nowhere close to the vibrancy and richness of Czech pilsner which is poured quickly from a side pull tap with a big head on it. I have had some OK craft pilsners but none have showed a full understanding of the Czech method or the importance of the pour.

See also: Poutnik, Benedict, Bernard, Fabian


Hey, SS, have you ever had Amos Pilsner from the Bohem Brewery in  North London? It's made a bunch of Czech lads and it is as good as your description abve, IMO. When all this is over get yrself to their tap room in Bounds Green and I'll buy you a pint. They offer a choice of pour.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: chveik on March 31, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
The Carling Black Label of fine Belgian beers, sadly. 1st rate if you've only ever drank Duvel or Leffe, otherwise...

well I'm hardly a connoisseur tbh.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on March 31, 2020, 02:33:03 PM
chouffe is no b- beer you fool

I quite like La Chouffe - I've never had their 'IPA' version though, and going by Duvel's Citra IPA I never want to. Why on earth are these respectable Belgian houses making their perfectly fine beers taste like any other hoppy IPA generic bullshit. Utterly degrading and completely pointless.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: chveik on March 31, 2020, 02:39:18 PM
I didn't realize it was an IPA. that's indeed a stupid idea.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on March 31, 2020, 02:39:50 PM
I quite like La Chouffe - I've never had their 'IPA' version though, and going by Duvel's Citra IPA I never want to. Why on earth are these respectable Belgian houses making their perfectly fine beers taste like any other hoppy IPA generic bullshit. Utterly degrading and completely pointless.

That Delerium Argentus is apparently their introduction to IPA - it was not like the shit IPA's you get here...in fact it was like a standard Delerium but with more body and was delicious
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on March 31, 2020, 02:43:43 PM
My uncle goes across to Belgian each year to visit a friend who owns a farm. The friend has been making his own beer recently and my uncle was helping out with some of the process - hops stuff I think. Anyway, each year he drives back with a car full of excellent Belgian beer and his friend's stuff (he's even named one of them after my uncle!).

It was with some mirth that my uncle told me that his friend had sent him a picture of a larder full of beer in Belgian as his own stocks are running close to zero now.

I offered to send him some Carlsberg from the Co-op ;)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 31, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
Blodwyn must have missed the bit where I acknowledged the style of Duchess tends to be love it or hate it. I am putting it forward so more people discover they love it.

Quote
Hey, SS, have you ever had Amos Pilsner from the Bohem Brewery in  North London

Not from the brewery tap itself but I have drunk Amos and seen their range around. They do a pretty convincing set of Czech style beers by all accounts.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 31, 2020, 03:39:49 PM
I quite like La Chouffe - I've never had their 'IPA' version though, and going by Duvel's Citra IPA I never want to. Why on earth are these respectable Belgian houses making their perfectly fine beers taste like any other hoppy IPA generic bullshit. Utterly degrading and completely pointless.

I don't like this either, it betrays insecurities that they are falling out of fashion and makes them look trend following rather than trend setting. I guess the brewers are genuinely interested and there is a lot of commercial pressure to follow suit.

That said some Belgian pale ale is quite nice, I wouldn't say they were like a generic US craft pales as the combination of ingredients leads to a sort of hybrid end effect.

Taras Boulba by Brasserie de la Senne is the hipster choice for summer drinking currently. I have had it on tap where it was surprisingly nice, but I don't think the bottle is anything special and it is exasperating to see even Belgium with all its own weird styles being railroaded by the pale ale juggernaut. Why the fuck with 1000 blondes, dubbels, Tripel, quads, Lambic, fruits, Oud bruins, red ales, and the weird shit in between would I want to spend my time drinking a session pale in Belgium?

Like a lot of scenes, they prop up their relevance by denigrating older ones as passe... Fashion eh?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on March 31, 2020, 03:48:14 PM
Blodwyn must have missed the bit where I acknowledged the style of Duchess tends to be love it or hate it. I am putting it forward so more people discover they love it.


Such is the rate of information exchange, I skipped that bit. I apologise.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on March 31, 2020, 03:50:01 PM
I don't like this either, it betrays insecurities that they are falling out of fashion and makes them look trend following rather than trend setting. I guess the brewers are genuinely interested and there is a lot of commercial pressure to follow suit.

That said some Belgian pale ale is quite nice, I wouldn't say they were like a generic US craft pales as the combination of ingredients leads to a sort of hybrid end effect.

Taras Boulba by Brasserie de la Senne is the hipster choice for summer drinking currently. I have had it on tap where it was surprisingly nice, but I don't think the bottle is anything special and it is exasperating to see even Belgium with all its own weird styles being railroaded by the pale ale juggernaut. Why the fuck with 1000 blondes, dubbels, Tripel, quads, Lambic, fruits, Oud bruins, red ales, and the weird shit in between would I want to spend my time drinking a session pale in Belgium?

Like a lot of scenes, they prop up their relevance by denigrating older ones as passe... Fashion eh?

Blimey! De sessieman heeft de sessie afgewezen
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on March 31, 2020, 04:21:07 PM
"Your driver is 10 stops away"

(https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/media/catalog/product/optimized/0/b/0b26443c6e580611a68c578a381b4f65aa534df1218292a8ef0cde178d12e4e6/big_beery_case_.png)

Oh DO hurry up, my driver!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on March 31, 2020, 04:31:36 PM
Have a drink of beer on me! (that you paid for)

Thanks Pseudo, Shoulds, Blod unt der Gang for the tips. I will try to source some of the buggers which I can have delivered my house. The Westvleteren doesn't have a cool label or any label, though, and so I'm a bit sceptical, to be honest. I will report back.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: sardines on March 31, 2020, 04:58:52 PM
Edit: fuck me this is a long post. Apologies

I normally keep to Oscillations but as a Belgian resident of many years can't help but peak my nose in.

A few observations
1. Chouffe on tap is really not a bad drink and harsh to compare it to Leffe.
2. It is true that the bigger breweries jumped heavily on the IPA bandwagon. The worst of it being (as someone who likes the style) that almost none of them offer anything remotely like an IPA (Duvel puts out a single hop every year but buggered if I can taste the difference. Chouffes IPA, labelled Houblon, isn't dreadful but it also tops 9% abv so just feels a waste of time).
3. The criticism of De La Senne is harsh as arguably they grew more out of the 'international' craft scene spirit, not a traditional Belgian one, looking to liven up things "locally" . Contextually this makes total sense as for all of the beer history, most bars (and Belgians) limit themselves to Jupiler, Stella or even Maes (and Duvel of they are looking to get smashed) . Sadly I'm not swimming in freshly poured Saisons and Geuzes, they still need hunting out. I can assure you having something of the style of a Taras or Zinnebir on tap in Brussels is still an exception and certainly was 10 years ago (You cannot get through 10 Westmalles in a night). - - a side note a lot of their beers are worth a try- - Bruxellensis is a fucking great beer, the Reserva even better.
4. If you just keep to the tradition you'll miss a really exciting scene here with Tilquin, Rulles, Fantome, l'Ermitage many other breweries not necessarily denigrating but playing with options they have available.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 31, 2020, 05:05:36 PM
I agree with you, the difference is you're speaking from a country where those beers represent a change from the norm, whereas from a UK perspective, outside of the new fangled sours and saisons (such as those you mention, christ, I was at a Zwanze Day event last year) the best thing Belgium offers are the beers that are unlike the avalanche of pales, imperial stouts and arch-goses we are treated to.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on March 31, 2020, 05:26:17 PM
The Westvleteren doesn't have a cool label or any label, though, and so I'm a bit sceptical, to be honest. I will report back.

You'll be lucky. You can only "officially" get it from the Saint Sixtus monastery itself (and occasionally the café across the street) and isn't intended to be sold commercially. Doesn't stop sites like Beer Hawk trying to get away with charging £21 a bottle though (although they never seem to have any in stock).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on March 31, 2020, 05:43:11 PM
Mostly joking because I know the history, but yeah, 20 notes...Hmm...If I'm going to die, anyway...

This is my reasoning for everything right now, especially as I still work full time as am key cunt. I'm planning to go out with a bang.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: sardines on March 31, 2020, 06:38:51 PM
christ, I was at a Zwanze Day event last year

Ah then trying not to derail the topic. I'm leaning towards getting through the next few weeks by diving into some aged Cantillons and a couple of Drie Fonteinens. It never seems the right time...

Quote
Doesn't stop sites like Beer Hawk trying to get away with charging £21 a bottle though (although they never seem to have any in stock).

I know it is not the idea of the question but my problem with ordering Westvleteren from one of the online 'hawkers' (arf) is that I'm guessing for around the same price you could buy a St Bernadus Abt 12, De Struise Pannepot and a couple of Rocheforts. Sure you don't have the cred of having drank Westvleteren but you've probably had a much better night.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on March 31, 2020, 06:48:02 PM
I know it is not the idea of the question but my problem with ordering Westvleteren from one of the online 'hawkers' (arf) is that I'm guessing for around the same price you could buy a St Bernadus Abt 12, De Struise Pannepot and a couple of Rocheforts. Sure you don't have the cred of having drank Westvleteren but you've probably had a much better night.

Tru dat.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 31, 2020, 07:37:19 PM
There is a lot of hype around Westvleteren that seems disproportionately based on scarcity rather. When I hear Americans loudly calling them 'Westy' I just want to murder them all. How casual.

Next time I'm in Belgium I ought to just front up and try one, even if they are usually €10-20 Euros. Only live the once. It's one of only 2 Trappist breweries I haven't tried beer from (Other is Cardena but that's not yet officially recognised)

*Tripel Monasterio San Pedro de Cardeña on Untappd  http://untp.beer/3wL7



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on March 31, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
Thanks for the extra tips here. I've ordered some Rochefort, St Bernardus Tripel, Ayinger Celebrator, Westmalle Tripel, plus some rando choices Timmermans Lambicus Blanche, Lindemans Gueuze Cuvée René and a couple of Chimay Bleue for old times' sake. Used to be a Belgian bar in Wuhan where we'd go most paydays and have Carollus Tripel and Chimay Bleue to escape the local formaldehyde brew for a night. Glorious times when you're used to Snow and Harbin. I'll report back. Cheers for the advice.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: purlieu on March 31, 2020, 07:57:16 PM
Budvar is in my view the best of the Czech options. I think the fact it is nearer helles than pilsner in character gives it more of a chance in bottled or canned form. Staropramen fine but the stuff is brewed under license and seems to be all over the place quality wise. One day surprisingly good, the other, pure shit gloop. Pilsner Urquell...? Well... I really don't rate it unless it is tapped. The higher bitterness really works when it's on tap with the thicker smoother texture. I wouldn't choose it.
Nah, the bottle stuff is pretty good. Obviously not anywhere near the quality of the fresh version, but still a safe go-to supermarket drink that has a lot more going for its flavour than your average lager. But yes, Budvar is another great choice.

Quote
If you try M&S, Booths, Waitrose you might find stuff like Hacker Pschorr and Paulaner's helles which are always a step up.
Paulaner's helles isn't great in bottles, but beautiful on tap. Hacker Munchner Hell is superb and definitely worth picking up if you can find it - would love to stumble across one in a supermarket. But then Waitrose have their own brand dunkelweizen, so I suppose that seems like the place.

If cost and availability were no object, what five beers would you recommend someone to try?
Schneider Mein Aventinus - As previously mentioned by anyone with a tongue.
Augustiner Maximator - My choice of the doppelbocks. Maybe the most well-rounded, although the Celebrator comes close. But this is stronger, so go f'rit.
Rochefort - The best balance of their three, compared with the slightly boozy 10 and the underwhelming (by dubbel standards - it's still an amazing beer) 6.
Mariahilfer Vollbier - A beautiful nutty amber lager. I think there's only one guy who actually exports it from Germany, but he does distribute all over the UK.
Reutberger Josefi-Bock - Not had one of these in almost a year. A maibock, so the rich, malty strength of a bock but with a ligher lager texture. A nasty one because you can't identify its slightly hefty strength at all; it goes down as easily as a 4% lager would.

Do Camden make anything good? It's one of those cans of beer that I always notice in hedges or left on the grass after BBQs and so perhaps unfairly I have always assumed it is S4C
Camden Hells is fine. It's a British craft take on the German style, but not done in a 'throw a load of hops at it' type way. Not a patch on an actual helles, but better than most craft lager I've had. I've had a couple of their others and they've been totally generic modern craft stuff: drinkable but totally unexceptional and far from a first choice.


Once all this virus madness is over, the first thing I'm doing is going to a pub and having a pint of something - anything - on cask. Having a shop in town that does great German beer at comparatively low prices, and who deliver, is a lifesaver during the lockdown, but I'm really missing the texture of a proper cask ale.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 31, 2020, 08:01:33 PM
Agreed on Camden's stuff. Very unambitious (apart from commercially) , all their offerings pass the bar quality wise but are nothing more than competent in my view.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: purlieu on March 31, 2020, 08:04:18 PM
They did do a strawberry lager last summer which was really bloody nice.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Retinend on March 31, 2020, 08:11:23 PM
/thread

didn't read it but I bet non of you beer plebs ever tasted shit as good as this

(https://i.imgur.com/zBiLGwi.png)
https://imgur.com/a/kskzKUW
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on March 31, 2020, 08:12:51 PM
Purlieu, I liked that strawberry lager, too.

I'll check out your choices, as well.

Retinend, tell it like it is, son.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: The Culture Bunker on March 31, 2020, 08:20:42 PM
Pilsner Urqell, if you can find it, is probably as good a bottled lager as you'll find in a supermarket.
Yes, I agree on this - problem is the two shops that sell it that I know of in South Manchester are a bit of a trek away: can get 6x300ml cans for £6 in Sainsburys or 500ml bottles for £1.50 each in Morrisons. Tescos (at least the one near me) stopped selling it, bastards.

I do agree it tastes totally wonderful on tap, albeit pricey (at least here, probably less so in Prague or whatever) but the cans/bottles are a good enough substitute for me, as my Friday night treat to myself for surviving a work week. It'll be a right fucker doing without till who knows when.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Retinend on March 31, 2020, 08:47:25 PM
Pilsner Urquell?

nah mate:

(https://i.imgur.com/PX8iLjo.png)
https://imgur.com/a/NMjOLTO
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Retinend on March 31, 2020, 08:51:19 PM
It just struck me that there are a million places on earth where every one of them probably has some really good beer in it. Beer is really good, isn't it?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Retinend on March 31, 2020, 08:53:08 PM
Well this looks bloody great.
Here's my haul from last week:
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0jbCKYC/germanbeer1.jpg)
you two just went for the instaest labels

tipplesters
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on March 31, 2020, 09:05:53 PM
purlieu now reduced to removing and selling the wallpaper in his property to get more beer money.

AND QUITE RIGHT
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on March 31, 2020, 10:02:53 PM
Latest order

(https://i.ibb.co/XWcZBxJ/3-C429-F21-0272-4-FDF-B825-E4-A162-B8-A46-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8m1D3g8)

What are Silly beers?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on March 31, 2020, 10:59:27 PM
Corsendonk Rousse vs. Gulden Draak 9000 Quadruple
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 01, 2020, 12:33:50 AM
Ah then trying not to derail the topic. I'm leaning towards getting through the next few weeks by diving into some aged Cantillons and a couple of Drie Fonteinens. It never seems the right time...

I know it is not the idea of the question but my problem with ordering Westvleteren from one of the online 'hawkers' (arf) is that I'm guessing for around the same price you could buy a St Bernadus Abt 12, De Struise Pannepot and a couple of Rocheforts. Sure you don't have the cred of having drank Westvleteren but you've probably had a much better night.

I was about to post this here. I have had 3 bottles of Westvleteren and I just cannot accept that it is any nicer than the Rocheforts which you can pick up for 1/20th of the price in a Belgian supermarket.

I second De Struise. I have had them twice. Once in Red Rose Cafe in Bruges and one in Amere et L'Amere a Boire in Brussels (actually I think I had a pannepot on tap in North in Leeds too - three times). The base pannepot is superb but barrel aged ones are majestic. The red wine barrel aged bottle I had in Brussels was without doubt the nicest beer I have ever had and they charged me 10 Euros for a 37cl bottle and threw in my girlfriend's half a blonde for nowt. Not bad compared with what you would pay for the nicest glass of wine in the world.

I do love proper German lagers. Rehills had a couple of new ones in a few weeks ago (I rarely buy expensive beer anymore after voluntarily taking a year off work and then a 50% pay cut and then involuntarily lost my job to the corona) but for the purposes of this thread I will go grab a couple and feedback to you all. :)

When all this is over Belgium is top of the list for a holiday.

Edit: and if you all really want a treat get hold of Schiender Weiss Avenitus EISBOCK. If you don't know the style it's basically the Avenitus (I agree with all of you - heaven) but freeze it and skim off the ice to make a higher ABV version. I genuinely gives you a little rush that is like taking a very mild pill. You can feel your forehead pulling your eyelids up. Amazing.

I am mates with Rob who is Blackjack Brewery and he told me he once did one for a beer festival. Started the day at 6% and kept skimming. By end of the night he reckons it was pushing 25% and people in tears after a 3rd of it. Ha ha.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 01, 2020, 01:16:11 AM
There is a lot of hype around Westvleteren that seems disproportionately based on scarcity rather. When I hear Americans loudly calling them 'Westy' I just want to murder them all. How casual.

Next time I'm in Belgium I ought to just front up and try one, even if they are usually €10-20 Euros. Only live the once. It's one of only 2 Trappist breweries I haven't tried beer from (Other is Cardena but that's not yet officially recognised)

*Tripel Monasterio San Pedro de Cardeña on Untappd  http://untp.beer/3wL7

Had a Westvleteren 12 while out drinking with one BlodwynPig. $40 a bottle, but at one of the very few places that sell it anywhere (and I’m not sure they’re supposed to). It was an end of the night “oh what the hell” purchase and I stand by it as I likely won’t have it again.

It was very nice, but I’m not sure it was up to the hype. The bar we were in specialized in Belgian and continental European beers and had a few that I thought were better (like the Rodenbach grand cru or the Orvel). One man’s opinion of course.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 01, 2020, 07:12:23 AM
Retinend, love that you're on some breakdown tier shit these days. Hope you're doing OK and just having fun.

I just ordered some chalices for my marathon beer drinking session. I better hope they arrive before the damn beers.

Can you drink a Rochefort straight out of the bottle? Half joke but also a genuine curiosity.

What's the benefits of drinking a beer from a big cup? Do they breathe like wine or bourbon? Is it aromas?

I once drenk a Pauvel Kwak out of some kind of wooden chemistry configuration thing. Edit. This:

(https://www.beermerchants.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/x400/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/k/w/kwak-glass-2.png)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 01, 2020, 07:15:25 AM
I was let to believe it was aromas, open surface area etc
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 01, 2020, 07:19:52 AM
Cheers. I also think you can quaff it five times faster from a cup unless you do a strawpedo.

Fuck. I wonder if any human alive has strawpedoed a Westvleteren. One for the list.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: purlieu on April 01, 2020, 09:18:02 AM
I love the Kwak glass. Totally unnecessary, really, but always makes it seem more special.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 01, 2020, 09:29:05 AM
A shitter to drink out of too, the narrow middle sloshes the beer through when you're past halfway. It is difficult to drink in a gainly way, often far too much than you'd want lurching towards your face.

But wooden stand tho and yes I would take that over drinking beer from a fucking glass beaker (cheers again, craft scene). Or a jam jar (that trend seems to be coming to an end thankfully)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: sardines on April 01, 2020, 10:17:43 AM
Fuck. I wonder if any human alive has strawpedoed a Westvleteren. One for the list.

I have a 10 year old Westvleteren 12 in the garage. If I get fucked with this virus, I'll do exactly that and report back before I cark it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Brigadier Pompous on April 01, 2020, 11:54:29 AM
I picked up 12 x Bocktoberfest Doppelbock 440m cans from Vocation & Co for £34

Just ordered 24 of these bad boys, they had better be good!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on April 01, 2020, 12:58:52 PM
Are GREVENSTEINER HELLES and/or GREVENSTEINER KELLERBIER any good, as they have just appeared on my local brewery's online delivery shop.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on April 01, 2020, 01:26:27 PM
Are GREVENSTEINER HELLES and/or GREVENSTEINER KELLERBIER any good, as they have just appeared on my local brewery's online delivery shop.

Only tried it once, but I remember the Kellerbier being fairly decent. Not the best example of the style, but solid nonetheless.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 01, 2020, 01:48:32 PM
Just paid Vocation & Co a visit.
Case ordered - discounted and free shipping!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 01, 2020, 04:58:43 PM
Just ordered 24 of these bad boys, they had better be good!

Haha, no nerves here. Been loving them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 01, 2020, 09:36:20 PM
Seems Morrisons have stepped up their Belgian range in larger stores.

Not just Leffe, Hoegaarden, Bacchus etc.

I saw Kwak, Kasteel Rouge, Blanche de Bruxelles and bought Westmalle Tripel (!) and Timmermans Oude Gueze (!!)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on April 01, 2020, 09:39:22 PM
Westmalle Tripel (!) and Timmermans Oude Gueze (!!)

Oy oy! Let's have a sniff of this. #FuckTheLockdown
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 02, 2020, 07:31:17 PM
Arrivé

(https://i.ibb.co/vcjx3bZ/IMG-6822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7S1JnH2)

A gentle mix of Peruvian, Croatian, Dutch, Belgian, UK, Russian, Latvian, French, Corsican, and Madeiran beers
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: The Culture Bunker on April 02, 2020, 07:38:55 PM
Great.

And what do you have for tomorrow?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 02, 2020, 07:39:25 PM
A real range there.

I like Pietra lager by the way, a nice chestnut element I wasn't expecting that worked well. Apparently they use chestnut flour.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 02, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Great.

And what do you have for tomorrow?

My uncle said the same...mainly because he knows I don't drink much
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 02, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
A real range there.

I like Pietra lager by the way, a nice chestnut element I wasn't expecting that worked well. Apparently they use chestnut flour.

FUCK YEAH - Great factoid, chestnut flour beer - that's why I loved it.

So far:

Zwyntje : reasonable but not really my taste, nice pig on the front though, 5.5/10
Cusquena Red : decent, caramelly lager from Peru, may not be good for the more tropical regions but at altitude would be perfect, 7/10
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 02, 2020, 07:58:45 PM
Is that a Baltika 0? I didn’t know such a thing existed.

Drank a rake of Baltika 3s and 7s (?) in Moscow - the Russian releases have screwcaps, and a screwcap grip opener pressed into the bottom so you can use one bottle to open another and get pissed up on the street no bother.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 02, 2020, 08:04:42 PM
Is that a Baltika 0? I didn’t know such a thing existed.

Drank a rake of Baltika 3s and 7s (?) in Moscow - the Russian releases have screwcaps, and a screwcap grip opener pressed into the bottom so you can use one bottle to open another and get pissed up on the street no bother.

My wife informs me that Baltika is the worst product in Russia and that they used to spike it with drugs so that the masses would get hooked on it.

I believe her.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 02, 2020, 08:06:40 PM
My wife informs me that Baltika is the worst product in Russia and that they used to spike it with drugs so that the masses would get hooked on it.

I believe her.

Probably why I wake up jonesing for a Baltika 13 years later.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on April 03, 2020, 03:07:22 PM
Cracked into my stash of Belgians last night.

Had a Tripel D'Anvers. For some reason it wasn't doing it for me in the same way it used to. I reckon they brewed a duff batch and thought to ship it out of the country and keep the good stuff for themselves in this time of crisis.

Gonna try a Corsendonk Agnus Tripel tonight. Normally excellent.

Need a stash of regular beers, though. A solid workhorse choice, can't be tanning these 8% bastards all evening.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: poo on April 03, 2020, 03:33:42 PM
just got a massive slab of cunting lagers
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 03, 2020, 03:55:07 PM
just got a massive slab of cunting lagers

YES LAD
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 03, 2020, 06:52:46 PM
Cracked into my stash of Belgians last night.

Had a Tripel D'Anvers. For some reason it wasn't doing it for me in the same way it used to. I reckon they brewed a duff batch and thought to ship it out of the country and keep the good stuff for themselves in this time of crisis.

Gonna try a Corsendonk Agnus Tripel tonight. Normally excellent.

Need a stash of regular beers, though. A solid workhorse choice, can't be tanning these 8% bastards all evening.

It is worth mentioning that even breweries their size have a degree of variation in each batch (like you mention), but your enjoyment will also be affected by so many other things on a micro level. How you poured it, what you poured it into, how clean it was, what temperature it was, the last thing you just ate or drank and when, how hungry/thirsty you were. I think there have been times even with my very favourites I've puzzled 'what was I getting so worked up about?' Then along comes the magic moment soon enough to remind you.

On the subject, I'm currently enjoying the absolute cunting fuck out of a Westmalle Tripel, a beer I used to find a bit sickly.

On the subject of solid workhorse choices, Home Bargains/B&M are currently selling boxes of 12 x 355ml Brooklyn beer for £6.99. Yep. The mix is 4 x Lager (decent), 4 x Pilsner (passable), 4 x Naranjito (beery Tango)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: idunnosomename on April 03, 2020, 08:23:36 PM
ive got some meths under the sink. its vivid purple. considering
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 04, 2020, 06:41:50 AM
Got my stupid big glasses yesterday. Still no monky beers. Expect them on Tuesday. Might have to get a four pack of Clockwork Tangerine to road test the cups.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on April 05, 2020, 08:08:36 PM
Worrying times for my Belgian beer drinking - my local off licence has shut down and Beerwulf have very little of anything at the minute. They have Saison Dupont though so I may buy a good few of them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on April 05, 2020, 08:29:37 PM
Worrying times for my Belgian beer drinking - my local off licence has shut down and Beerwulf have very little of anything at the minute. They have Saison Dupont though so I may buy a good few of them.

Belgium In A Box is my go to. Only 10 euros delivery for up to 30kgs or so, which normally about 45-50 beers.

Just received an order the other day, took about 12 days all in, which included a lovely 5L keg of Delirium Tremens.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 05, 2020, 08:30:49 PM
Belgium In A Box is my go to. Only 10 euros delivery for up to 30kgs or so, which normally about 45-50 beers.

Just received an order the other day, took about 12 days all in, which included a lovely 5L keg of Delirium Tremens.

WHAT UR-HEAVEN IS THIS??!!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 05, 2020, 08:34:18 PM
(https://belgiuminabox.com/shop/14956-thickbox_default/delirium-black-barrel-aged-2019-75-cl.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 05, 2020, 09:35:57 PM
https://bottleshops.online/

It is very likely you will be able to source and obtain the beers you want here.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on April 05, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
(https://belgiuminabox.com/shop/14956-thickbox_default/delirium-black-barrel-aged-2019-75-cl.jpg)

Add to fucking cart.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 06, 2020, 08:05:50 PM
Going from Bottleshops Online (https://bottleshops.online/?search=adv&shipto=GB&q=&cc=&breweries=0&t=&subs=&lowalc=&ind=&closed=&sort=beers_desc) there seems to be a very good looking one specialising in Polish beer, eBrowarium (https://ebrowarium.pl/). No, not yer Tyskies, Lechs or Okocims, beer from Poland's fantastic (and criminally under-represented in the UK) craft scene. Pinta, Nepomucen, Stu Mostow, Lancut and loads more.

Certain styles are easier to come by than most other sites I've looked at - schwarzbiers, smoked beers, baltic porter, wheat and wit.

Shipping is expensive but if you fill up your order with the max parcel of 30 bottles costing £1-£2.50 an order will average out at £2.40 per 500ml bottle. Not shabby.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 06, 2020, 08:15:48 PM
No word from one vendor on my fucking beers. Nothing at all. I won't name names. It's been a week and they've took the cash but no dispatch, no update, no order confirmation besides PayPal. I'll give you them another day before I pick up the phone. The other vendor is delivering tomorrow, though. This time tomorrow, I'll be having a drink of beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on April 06, 2020, 08:26:50 PM
Belgium In A Box is my go to. Only 10 euros delivery for up to 30kgs or so, which normally about 45-50 beers.

Just received an order the other day, took about 12 days all in, which included a lovely 5L keg of Delirium Tremens.

Is that with draft keg tapping system?

Is it good? how expensive are they?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 06, 2020, 09:11:04 PM
No word from one vendor on my fucking beers. Nothing at all. I won't name names. It's been a week and they've took the cash but no dispatch, no update, no order confirmation besides PayPal. I'll give you them another day before I pick up the phone. The other vendor is delivering tomorrow, though. This time tomorrow, I'll be having a drink of beer.

Looking around at the big companies and many of them are both massively busy yet refusing to stop accepting orders (and our money).

It would be insensitive to compare their plight with that of the NHS but I plan to applaud my courier on arrival, and shout over the crowds cheering on nurses if delivery coincides with Clap Night. 'Can you shut up, my beer is here', is a line I have written in advance.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on April 06, 2020, 11:57:42 PM
Is that with draft keg tapping system?

Is it good? how expensive are they?

Yeah, it has its own wee tap that you extend then another lever for pumping it out, but i am yet to open it. Once opened i think it suggests drinking it within a week and keeping it in the fridge. So im gonna wait until i have a proper thirst on me before taking the plunge. Cost was 32 euro, which isn't bad for 15 bottles, basically.

My pal has burned through 3 kegs of the Delirium Red and said they worked an absolute treat, right up to the end.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 07, 2020, 12:44:54 AM
So it turns out the beers I quite liked were Nikl Brau. Went back and bought the lager and the Weisse and they were good but no more. 7/10 for me a good Weisse has to have that right balance of the fruity banana flavour of being just there on top of a nice clean creamy lager. The nikl is fine but it’s all just a bit jumbled together. Like a nice chicken curry that has been slightly over cooked and loses the distinct flavours.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 07, 2020, 01:08:09 AM
What I would say is the 75cl bottle of Lindeman’s Oude gueze is absolutely lovely. It’s not Cantillon obviously but at half the price it is not half as nice. 6%, 75cl, 8quid. Maybe it’s a little sweet than what I think a Gueze should be but it’s a fine beer to my palate.

Disclaimer: I like a Pinot Noir and think the best white wine should be dry and minerally almost the point of tasteless. I like drinks with a hint of flavour not full bodied complex sup. Unless it’s the dark bocks you guys have mentioned previously. To me all good booze shouldn’t have a nasty under taste. Beyond that I’ll drink anything*

*Apart from Lidl pilsner that stinks of an almost skunk aroma. It’s shit but for £1 a bottle I like it for what it is.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 07, 2020, 09:11:43 AM
Just ordered a Flavourly 'collaboration' case.
20 different beers for £19.95 (inc. delivery), which is a bit of a bargain*.
(https://d25cmwjnw6afa4.cloudfront.net/media/catalogue/product/modified/ultimate-20.jpg)
*as long as they're not piss water, obviously
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on April 07, 2020, 09:51:53 AM
Belgium in a Box looks like an absolute Aladdin's cave. Gruut! Gruut for goodness' sake.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 07, 2020, 11:38:57 AM
https://bottleshops.online/?search=adv&shipto=GB&q=&cc=&breweries=0&t=&subs=&lowalc=&ind=&closed=&sort=beers_desc

I have seen Gentse Gruut in a few of the big stores here. Speciaal Bierpakkett looks to have a very good range of trad Belgian and Dutch beers so I have just given them a try. My selection came to 73 quid for 30 beers, Inc. UK shipping.

Cheaper than you would get with BeerWulf these days without a discount code.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on April 07, 2020, 11:40:54 AM
Very cool - thanks for that. Really want to find somewhere that does Luvanium, only ever had it in Leuven unsurprisingly.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on April 07, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
any recommendations for a really nice massive crate of drinkable pilsner I can order from one of these? I like these belgian mega bastard ones but can't drink so many of them. I've been reduced to drinking Tysky from the corner shop.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 07, 2020, 11:51:09 AM
Try Tysky Sour
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 07, 2020, 01:12:11 PM
any recommendations for a really nice massive crate of drinkable pilsner I can order from one of these? I like these belgian mega bastard ones but can't drink so many of them. I've been reduced to drinking Tysky from the corner shop.

For high quality stuff you can go to Biershop Bayern and pick pretty much any crate of helles or pilsner and it will be very high quality. The selection of Bavarian and Franconia lager is unparalleled.

It is quite inefficient for shipping costs to the UK though. Every 18 bottles the shipping increases so it will cost around £3.10 a bottle.

Going somewhere like Beers of Europe you can get free delivery over £60, but as they have already shipped their stock over from Europe they pass that price on. They are out of so much stock right now I wouldn't bother.

If you want something a little more affordable and aren't fussy then you can't really beat UK supermarkets for price, sad fact.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 07, 2020, 03:11:24 PM
First order come through today. St Bernardus Tripel and Rochefort 10. Looking forward to 5pm when I can have a nice drink of beer!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 07, 2020, 03:22:14 PM
Just reading some reviews and is St Bernardus honestly just the piss out of a St Bernardus dog? :(
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on April 07, 2020, 05:17:23 PM
For high quality stuff you can go to Biershop Bayern and pick pretty much any crate of helles or pilsner and it will be very high quality. The selection of Bavarian and Franconia lager is unparalleled.

It is quite inefficient for shipping costs to the UK though. Every 18 bottles the shipping increases so it will cost around £3.10 a bottle.

Going somewhere like Beers of Europe you can get free delivery over £60, but as they have already shipped their stock over from Europe they pass that price on. They are out of so much stock right now I wouldn't bother.

If you want something a little more affordable and aren't fussy then you can't really beat UK supermarkets for price, sad fact.

Cheers for info.

Ended up finding this site http://web-bier.de/ and got close to pulling the trigger on 24 Augustiner Helles and 24 of something else, but slightly baulked at delivery. I'll still probably have a weak moment later and get it done.

Edit: fuck it. ordered.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 07, 2020, 05:36:47 PM
Good on you, bro. Held out twelve minutes. Respect.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: bgmnts on April 07, 2020, 07:08:05 PM
Found a hedge containing containing sloeberries and a crabapple tree in the woods.

Might start brewing some gin and cider.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 07, 2020, 07:12:00 PM
Japanese Sweet potato imperial stout, Coedo. Pretty impressive as I don't really like stout : 7/10
Croatian Lavender & Blueberry sour, lovely soft and unique notes :8.5/10 (for a sour)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 07, 2020, 07:27:38 PM
Rochefort 10 - S+ / S / B

St Bernardus Tripel - S / S+ / B+

Fuckin amazin. So happy.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 07, 2020, 07:41:59 PM
For anyone who doesn't visit the gaming forum, the above criteria are:

Rating in relation to the genre / My personal rating / What the average cunt would think
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 07, 2020, 10:31:12 PM
I had two of these and smashed up a load of stuff. Not sure it's sustainable, as nice as they are.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 07, 2020, 10:42:07 PM
Lightweight. Deputy Head-tier night out in.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 07, 2020, 10:49:52 PM
Might have been the roids.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 07, 2020, 10:50:19 PM
Might have been the roids.

You can get cream for them
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 08, 2020, 08:24:10 AM
I laughed, then winced.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 08, 2020, 06:15:12 PM
Back on the Bernardus and ready to smash up everything into nothing. Really superb beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 08, 2020, 07:28:54 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/xLXdxxQ/20200408-183024.jpg)

This is so good. Really wish I'd got a crate. Thanks for the tips, lads.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 08, 2020, 07:45:13 PM
Mm, lovely stuff.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on April 09, 2020, 10:04:30 AM
...unlike those horrible coasters.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 09, 2020, 10:40:31 AM
25 beers (including the oak aged Delirium), some pate and chocolates and a glass from BeerinaBox - 124 Euro, proper job
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 09, 2020, 11:59:49 AM
25 beers (including the oak aged Delirium), some pate and chocolates and a glass from BeerinaBox - 124 Euro, proper job

Asserting economic dominance.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 09, 2020, 12:10:36 PM
Asserting economic dominance.

Surplus elicits deficit
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on April 09, 2020, 12:11:51 PM
Fuck it I'm gonna trawl Belgium in a Box
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 09, 2020, 12:13:34 PM
odd that they don't stock Mongozo or Floris (for the wife, ;) ).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: WhoMe on April 09, 2020, 02:26:00 PM
Worth checking your favorite brewery's online shop atm, most of them have a surplus of beer and some good deals can be had.
Just took delivery of two 24 bottle crates of Bethnal pale ale from Redchurch for £50 + delivery :D
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on April 09, 2020, 02:46:36 PM
odd that they don't stock Mongozo or Floris (for the wife, ;) ).

It's a Dutch brewery as opposed to Belgian, but so is La Trappe, and they have those.

How is the pate? Unfortunately I missed out on the free offer by a few days.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 09, 2020, 02:48:27 PM
It's a Dutch brewery as opposed to Belgian, but so is La Trappe, and they have those.

How is the pate? Unfortunately I missed out on the free offer by a few days.

Didn't know that. Floris is from Hughye (Delirium brewers) though, so thought that would be there. Their honey beer is the most authentic honey taste I've had - hopefully not chemical induced (seems legit).

I just ordered today, so will let you know about the pate when it arrives

Drinking Pietra now despite still working
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 09, 2020, 04:57:17 PM
Great. My next order will be here tomorrow. I'll have Duvel this evening.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 09, 2020, 05:02:17 PM
25 beers (including the oak aged Delirium), some pate and chocolates and a glass from BeerinaBox - 124 Euro, proper job

Nice one, beast. Got a link, please?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 09, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Nice one, beast. Got a link, please?

I think it was posted upthread

it was Belgium in a box, not beer in a fucking box, sorry

https://belgiuminabox.com/shop/ (https://belgiuminabox.com/shop/)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 09, 2020, 06:58:28 PM
Nearly out of booze. After tonight all that's left is 1 x Bacchus Kriek, 1 x Cantillon Gueuze, 1 x Timmermans Oude Gueuze. I was planning on leaving the later 2 for when the zombies start learning how to climb walls.

Come on Speciaal Beerpakket + DPD. Come on, rescue the situation.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 09, 2020, 07:29:41 PM
Put a Corsendonk on it.

Cheers, Blod. Looks great.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 09, 2020, 07:30:50 PM
Put a Corsendonk on it.

That takes me back.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 09, 2020, 10:12:59 PM
I think it was posted upthread

it was Belgium in a box, not beer in a fucking box, sorry

https://belgiuminabox.com/shop/ (https://belgiuminabox.com/shop/)

Nice one. Ordered.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 09, 2020, 10:52:03 PM
Just had one Duvel Tripel this evening, pretty good and available in Tesco's. Very hoppy which is the reason I tend to enjoy IPA, so it was a very pleasant combo.

Taking it easy tonight but tomorrow night will be a proper feast.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 09, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Tripel hop Citra or Cashmere?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 09, 2020, 10:54:29 PM
Citra. £2.50 a bottle in Tesco's.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 09, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Citra. £2.50 a bottle in Tesco's.

Ah yeah


GHASTLY
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 09, 2020, 11:03:20 PM
I'll give the Cashmere a go if I see it anywhere. I quite like Duvel. Affection from my China days and the one anachronistic Belgian bar in Wuhan.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 10, 2020, 02:22:27 AM
I didn’t have Bosto down as an IPA guy but you live and learn!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 10, 2020, 12:50:26 PM
Yeah, that's my standard kind of pint. Not really been into top tier beer for years but lockdown got me trying a lot of stuff outside my usual routine. Historically, well more into wine and whisk(e)y but beer is more appealing right now. I like that you can try lots of different ones without drinking loads and it's also a bit of a nostalgia thing, some of the flavours take me back to my 20s.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 10, 2020, 12:57:04 PM
Don't want to derail the thread, but also don't want to start a new one to ask one question. I bought some Bowmore and like it, but it's a little too peated for me. What Whisky do you recommend that I can likely pick up from a large supermarket? Something a little more delicate,  Talisker maybe?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 10, 2020, 01:04:40 PM
Talisker is really good, still got a whisp of peat to it but richer and deeper than Bowmore so probably a mighty fine choice.

If you want to steer clear of the peat completely, Aberlour 12 is a pretty hearty choice finished in a sherry cask. More fruity, spicy, chocolatey. Very nice stuff and seems to be widely available in the supermarket. Balvenie Double Wood has a similar profile, also widely available.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 10, 2020, 01:07:41 PM
Cheers, I've seen all those on the shelves. I'll Don my ninja outfit and try to make it up and down the Isle without getting nabbed by the rozzers
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 10, 2020, 01:10:55 PM
Good luck. Whisky is borderline essential, I'd say.

If you like them and want any more ideas, say the word. Cheers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 10, 2020, 01:31:28 PM
Caol Ila 12 Year is fantastic. A wisp of peat, just massively enjoyable. I got a recommendation on here and it paid off.

Not sure about availability in supermarkets - probably gonna be a Waitrose/Booths trip, if anywhere.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 10, 2020, 01:32:18 PM
I typically go for an Oban 14 (fruity and complex), a Jura 12 (sweet and light), or a glenlivet 15 (smooth and light).

I’m a whisky ponce though. I’m quite partial to a Jameson’s as well tbh.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 10, 2020, 01:36:04 PM
Back to beer, just picked up First World Problems Belgian IPA from Stewart Brewing at Sainsbury's. Roy Lichtenstein-themed design on the 330ml can.

I'm not sure what they think is Belgian about it, but it's a nice beer all the same. It's a multigrain so barley, rye, oats and wheat, which shows in the flavour.

It's coppery amber coloured, and the maltiness stands up to the hops well. I don't think it will delight modern craft beer drinkers but anyone into 90s new wave US brews with that malty, hoppy almost lingering.... chewyness? will really enjoy it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on April 10, 2020, 03:16:12 PM
glenlivet 15 (smooth and light).

Another shout out for the Glenlivet. I honestly don't think they're capable of making a bad whisky (although that capsule idea (https://uncrate.com/the-glenlivet-capsule-collection/) they came up with was ridiculous).

I’m a whisky ponce though. I’m quite partial to a Jameson’s as well tbh.

Yup...as Irish whiskeys go, yer man Jameson is my go-to as well (although that's a bit like boasting that your favourite lager is Carling). I've only tried Kilbeggan and Redbreast a couple of times, but they seemed pretty decent to me too.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 10, 2020, 03:56:54 PM
Thanks for the recommendations. I looked at the single malts whilst doing my shopping and decided to change up and buy something middling that's not cold filtered, and buy it from a Whisky shop rather than a supermarket. I'm fairly inexperienced, so it's probably good to broaden my frame of reference early on. The Bowmore was fine but a bit of a disappointment if truth be told. So I'll go for this in a fortnight and it's about £50.

https://youtu.be/8qSyKzrxYTE

Back to beer again. I've picked up a few of these from M&S

https://www.ratebeer.com/fr/beer/mikkeller-hallo-ich-bin-berliner-weisse-raspberry/465983/

I can't get a positive response from any of my friends over sour beers. I've recommended this in the hope that it's about as accessible as it gets. This is my kind of sour: fairly simple, tart, salty and fresh. I often struggle with the flavour of deeper coloured, complex, caskey and cidery sours.

I stopped drinking most IPAs last year, mainly on account of the ubiquity of NEIPA which is almost all much of a muchness, unremarkable, and worst of all, not refreshing. So it's been fun to revisit a few beers that I moved on from when the West Coast IPAs that pre-dated these current styles were hitting this country (early 2010s). Last night I had Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and it's still a fantastic beer despite the quantity they must be shifting, because I see it on almost every supermarket shelf. A fragrant, coppery pale ale that is perfectly balanced for hoppiness and refreshment. It must be off most craft-beer drinkers' radar as I never see it ordered in a bar and often it's not even stocked, but there's a huge audience out there and i'm just not sure who it is. It's a gem. From my introduction to these kind of beers SNPA (5.6%), Odell's IPA (7%) and Myrcenary (9.3%) remain to this day my favourite examples of American Pale Ale, IPA and DIPA. I also revisited Brooklyn Lager on Shoulders seal of acceptability and my recalibrated palate gave me a different experience of it. Quite a hoppy and bitter lager, despite the sweet caramel maltiness. Very acceptable and refreshing and in future I would choose this over something something like a Vocation IPA.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on April 10, 2020, 04:11:41 PM
Hmm...I could never get along with Berliner Weisse either. Desperately tried to love Berliner Kindl when I last visited Germany, but every sip just tasted of disappointment.

I guess my palate just can't cope with sour beers. I tried a Gueuze during a beer tour of Bruges and it just tasted like necking straight from a bottle of Sarsons.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 10, 2020, 04:20:20 PM
I had a fantastic tour of Cantillon with a group of about ten friends. They loved the tour. Several of them are engineers so naturally fascinated by the wild fermentation, tanks, cooling pools etc. Then we got to the tasting room and each and every one was appalled by the taste of the beer 
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on April 10, 2020, 04:28:38 PM
I had a fantastic tour of Cantillon with a group of about ten friends. They loved the tour. Several of them are engineers so naturally fascinated by the wild fermentation, tanks, cooling pools etc. Then we got to the tasting room and each and every one was appalled by the taste of the beer

Ha ha! That's hilarious. All that build-up for sweet, sweet nada. Well, at least you all learned something about how not to brew beer.

Waits for S?-S! to leap to the lambics' defence.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 10, 2020, 04:43:39 PM
Ah, well I suggested Cantillon because it's one of the Lambics that i do love. But it was a very funny game of two halves
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 10, 2020, 04:49:52 PM
Gueuze is pointless to try unless you have first developed a liking for more mild stuff and appreciate the Lambic concept itself, the fact it is so different from normal ales and lagers that it can't be compared. Phes' anecdote rather depressed me to picture (at the same time as being funny). These things are acquired tastes a lot of the time.

Someone mentioned Sarsons, so that's more likely going to be an Oud Bruin. There are loads of sour beers that don't taste anything like that. Lots of other flavours.. .. Tart, oaky, vinous, salty, wild berries etc, and that's sometimes before they are doctored and blended with other stuff.

Gueuze is a brilliant creation though, blended Lambic of different ages, which creates a lovely balance. Like the best stuff, interesting to swirl round your mouth and savour, but similarly very drinkable and thirst quenching at its best. On my last tour at Cantillon in October my first glass of the Gueuze must have lasted no longer than 10 minutes.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 10, 2020, 04:58:48 PM
Did you enjoy the Saint Lamvinus? This was the only version I could get people even slightly on board with, which suggests that as you say, appreciating drinks often seems to rely on being able to place them within a style that one recognises
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 10, 2020, 05:53:02 PM
Did you enjoy the Saint Lamvinus? This was the only version I could get people even slightly on board with, which suggests that as you say, appreciating drinks often seems to rely on being able to place them within a style that one recognises

I haven't tried that one. The label seems to be a bunch of grapes?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 10, 2020, 05:59:49 PM
Yeah it has merlot grapes and aged in wine barrels. Tart and dry, vinous, not quite as funky and a little more accessible than the two year blend. Excellent stuff. Perhaps it was a special, I'd just assumed it was a core beer
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 10, 2020, 06:52:39 PM
My beers didn't turn up so I gonna start smashing more stuff now
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 11, 2020, 02:17:44 PM
Yes, the Dutch have come through for me. Package delivered this morning:

1 x Augustijn blond
1 x Leffe tripel
1 x Bernardus Pater 6
1 x Augustijn Grand Cru
1 x Gulden Draak Quad
1 x Gentse Tripel
1 x Floreffe Blonde
1 x Ename Pater  *
1 x Corsendonk Agnus
1 x Petrus Tripel  *
1 x Paljas Blonde *
1 x Val-Dieu Brune *
1 x Rochefort 8
1 x Ter Dolen Tripel  *
1 x Tripel Kannunik
1 x Bernardus 12
1 x Tripel D'Anvers
1 x Tongerlo Tripel *
1 x Broeder Jacob Tripel *
1 x De Meester Tripel *
1 x Weihenstephaner Vitus
1 x Deugniet Strong Blonde *
1 x Straffe Hendrick Tripel
1 x Gageleer Gruit *
1 x Gerardus Blond *
1 x Bink Blond *
1 x Hertog Jan Grand Prestige *
1 x Gerardus Tripel *
1 x Moeder Overste Tripel *

(* I haven't tried these ones before)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on April 11, 2020, 02:50:38 PM
Belgium In A Box is my go to. Only 10 euros delivery for up to 30kgs or so, which normally about 45-50 beers.

Just received an order the other day, took about 12 days all in, which included a lovely 5L keg of Delirium Tremens.

Thanks for that. I ordered 21 bottles and it came to something like sixty euro. It didn't tell me how long delivery will take though so hopefully I'm not waiting a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 11, 2020, 03:35:11 PM
Yes, the Dutch have come through for me. Package delivered this morning:

1 x Augustijn blond
1 x Leffe tripel
1 x Bernardus Pater 6
1 x Augustijn Grand Cru
1 x Gulden Draak Quad
1 x Gentse Tripel
1 x Floreffe Blonde
1 x Ename Pater  *
1 x Corsendonk Agnus
1 x Petrus Tripel  *
1 x Paljas Blonde *
1 x Val-Dieu Brune *
1 x Rochefort 8
1 x Ter Dolen Tripel  *
1 x Tripel Kannunik
1 x Bernardus 12
1 x Tripel D'Anvers
1 x Tongerlo Tripel *
1 x Broeder Jacob Tripel *
1 x De Meester Tripel *
1 x Weihenstephaner Vitus
1 x Deugniet Strong Blonde *
1 x Straffe Hendrick Tripel
1 x Gageleer Gruit *
1 x Gerardus Blond *
1 x Bink Blond *
1 x Hertog Jan Grand Prestige *
1 x Gerardus Tripel *
1 x Moeder Overste Tripel *

(* I haven't tried these ones before)

You're in for a fun Saturday tea time.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 11, 2020, 04:57:03 PM
The Gageleer was very nice, Gruity goodness.

How is Gageleer pronounced in Flemish? HARGHELL-eer? Sometimes ordering beers in Belgium is a toss up between sounding like an ignorant prick and an offensive prick.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 11, 2020, 05:27:04 PM
Had the Tongerlo last night - proper beer that, lovely (Nox not Tripel)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 11, 2020, 07:09:57 PM
Bringing the tone down with Magic Rock's Salty Kiss and Mikeller's Ich Bien Ein Berliner Weisse. Salty was the first soured beer I ever tried in about 2012 ish and I hated it. It's pretty damn good. The buckthorn is more noticeable than I remember.

Down with viruses, up with bacteria!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 11, 2020, 08:32:58 PM
Gageleer ***

Moeder Overste Tripel *** - a bit more to it, brave but didn't hit the golden spot

Deugniet **** - Friggin tasty Belgian blonde. Harmonious bittersweet Ness, cloudy. The label has a man pulling his pants down to show his arse
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 11, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Oh so much to say.

Sour Beers - Siren Calypso is a good gateway sour. They do it in Morrisons on the 4 for £5 deal. Never unhappy to have one.

Berliner Weisse - one thing we forget over here is its meant to be drunk with syrup added to it. Can’t remember the flavours but choices last time I was there was red or green. The locals I spoke to took the piss out of tourists drinking it without thinking they some kind of experts with refined tastes. I prefer it without the syrup mind.

Gueze - drink of the gods. I too had the same experience last time I was at Cantillon. Stag do on the tour; they were super excited by place then looked at each other in confused horror on tasting. TBF, they offer the 1 Year lambic first which is just flat sour beer so it’s quite the surprise of you expecting the ”champagne of beer”. (God I can’t wait to go back to Brussels - first thing I’m doing when all this shit is over with).

Celebrator - I went back to get a bottle yesterday as was surprised about all the praise on here for it as I remember it being just fine. My opinion didn’t change and I prefer the other Ayinger stuff. Oh well.

Got some more stuff to try tonight.

Oh and cheers blod. Girlfriend enjoyed the passion fruit of those fruit beers you posted.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 11, 2020, 08:57:02 PM
https://berlinlovesyou.com/schneeeule-berliner-weisse/

I heard Kindl is the hated one hipsters are blaze about (I think it's decent personally) whereas the above is where to start if you are seeking Berliner Weisse in Berlin.

The Freigeist Abbraxas is an absurdly good Lichtenhainer, similar to Grodziskie and Berliner Weisse but sour. Sour and smoked. They need to make more of that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 13, 2020, 12:57:57 AM
Augustijn Blonde - classic Belgian blonde, pretty much what you would hope to find after buying one. Thick, cloudy, golden, lovely sweetness and hoppy crisp finish ****

Gentse Tripel - maybe didn't survive transit or storage well. Flavour was a tad burnt/off, but not enough to be anywhere near a problem to drink ***

Broder Jacob Tripel - started off unpromising but got better as it went on. At 7.5% only 0.5% stronger than the above blonde and that showed in the end as it devolved into what felt more like a strong blonde. *** and a half
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 13, 2020, 01:31:59 AM
Very jealous of everyone and their postal booze.

I’ve been sneaking out in the dead of night to one of the two crap breweries near me to pick up 12 tins of mediocre beer to last 4 or 5 days hours.

First thing when this is all done, I’m going to a nice liquor store and getting beered up on decent hooch.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 13, 2020, 10:15:16 AM
Very jealous of everyone and their postal booze.

I’ve been sneaking out in the dead of night to one of the two crap breweries near me to pick up 12 tins of mediocre beer to last 4 or 5 days hours.

First thing when this is all done, I’m going to a nice liquor store and getting beered up on decent hooch.

Have a boneshaker on me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 13, 2020, 11:23:18 AM
While I wait for my order to arrive, I got some OG Delirium Tremens which really takes me back to my China days. I remember having about four and robbing a taxi. Looking forward to 5pm already. Also makes me me wonder how Tesco decides what to stock. Duvel Citra, Delirium Tremens, Bacchus Kriek, Leffe Brune and a load of real ales. They've obviously got some great marketing people (and DT and Bacchus have their obvious packaging gimmicks) but I'm surprised nobody else really breaks through. You get the odd Chimay, of course, and loads of craft stuff, got some Sierra Nevada as well, really good stuff and good reminder from phes. I'd like to know how they make these decisions.

I actually know a mate of a mate who's worked in this exact stuff for ages and I used to go out with some girl who does the same but with wine but I'd rather ask you guys.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 13, 2020, 11:25:23 AM
While I wait for my order to arrive, I got some OG Delirium Tremens which really takes me back to my China days. I remember having about four and robbing a taxi. Looking forward to 5pm already. Also makes me me wonder how Tesco decides what to stock. Duvel Citra, Delirium Tremens, Bacchus Kriek, Leffe Brune and a load of real ales. They've obviously got some great marketing people (and DT and Bacchus have their obvious packaging gimmicks) but I'm surprised nobody else really breaks through. You get the odd Chimay, of course, and loads of craft stuff, got some Sierra Nevada as well, really good stuff and good reminder from phes. I'd like to know how they make these decisions.

These beers have become the bungalow beers of the beige middle. Left their robbing taxi days behind them and settled into the gentle dust motes of middle-aged angst and late afternoon sofa spunk stains.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 13, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
Already started stripping off and punching the walls so tonight is gonna be a ripper mate.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 13, 2020, 08:07:55 PM
Bacchus Kriek is OK. Delirium Tremens is decent. Feel like Rochefort 10 cunts em into a cunny lil hat.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 13, 2020, 08:20:58 PM
Why is everyone on the 10% beer all of a sudden?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 13, 2020, 09:35:05 PM
Speaking of which, for tonight I've got a Weihenstephaner Vitus waiting in the fridge.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 13, 2020, 10:29:19 PM
The weirdest thing. I have received an Amazon Prime Beer Hawk package of 5 cans of craft (Tiny Rebel, Thornbridge - nice but stuff you get in Tescos) and a glass. My name and my address. I have no recollection of buying it (I wouldn't pay for Thornbridge as it is tory filth - nice though) can't find anything in emails or Amazon account and noone is admitting buying them for me as a gift. I am stumped.

Do they by any chance do a subsription service type thing that I might have accidentally signed myself up to? Or if you order through Beer Hawk website does it come automatically via Amazon Prime?

Oh well. Got 5 cans to drink at least.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2020, 08:30:47 AM
I am pretty sure they are tied to a number of partner deals so yeah, it may have been something like that.

I look forward to receiving my free beers next. Where are they come on I am waiting
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
Ename Pater - classic lower strength (5.5%) patersbier. Unfiltered blonde with a lovely tingling, zesty bittersweetness that gathers on your palate. You'd almost think it was a tripel, there's that much going on.

Fans of Brasserie De La Senne's stuff should enjoy it, may even be pleasantly surprised how it fulfils their hophead needs.

*** and a half

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on April 14, 2020, 01:42:39 PM
Why/ how are Thornbridge tory filth (not that I'm a fan or anything)

How do you get free beer?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 14, 2020, 02:09:43 PM
Ename Pater - classic lower strength (5.5%) patersbier. Unfiltered blonde with a lovely tingling, zesty bittersweetness that gathers on your palate. You'd almost think it was a tripel, there's that much going on.

Fans of Brasserie De La Senne's stuff should enjoy it, may even be pleasantly surprised how it fulfils their hophead needs.

*** and a half

That's in my Belgian consignment
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 14, 2020, 02:41:05 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/L8T0MYc/20200414-143526.jpg)

They subbed a couple in the end due to stock. St Bernardus Wit, hope that's decent, and a tinnie. I don't actually like wheat beer that much but maybe I just never had good shit. Never had lambic either apart from the odd sour so looking forward to this stuff. 5pm gonna get on it and drink myself and my wife to death.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: chveik on April 14, 2020, 02:48:38 PM
had a little Coreff last night. do you know that one Shoulders?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 14, 2020, 03:15:49 PM
Beerwulf seem to have run out of a lot of stuff.
Just ordered this though:
https://www.beerwulf.com/en-gb/p/beercases/bockbeer
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2020, 04:21:46 PM
has a little Coreff last night. do you know that one Shoulders?

French? When Saveur Biere used to do UK deliveries I may have had a chance to get that.

Was it the blonde/ambree, other?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: chveik on April 14, 2020, 04:31:46 PM
French? When Saveur Biere used to do UK deliveries I may have had a chance to get that.

Was it the blonde/ambree, other?

ambree. it's the oldest microbrewery in Brittany. they're quite nice.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2020, 05:29:25 PM
I will keep a look out. I miss being able to order from Saveur Biere. You could get 750ml bottles of ales for between 3-6 euros. Really interesting stuff like their ambrees, saisons and biere de gardes. The intriguing French beer scene is sorely underrepresented online (for UK deliveries, at least). Same goes for Italy and its peculiar red ales and German influence.

Just drinking Floreffe blonde. **

Not that impressed by this one. The aroma is not enticing. That burnt barley smell you sometimes get with low alcohol beers shouldn't be present in something masquerading as an abbey ale. Taste is ok, floral and zingy. I think they were trying to give it a nice hefty undertone but the balance is all out. According to the bottle it's in date for the next 6 months so I can only assume quality control is all over the place or it's meant to be like this. I'm sure I've tried Floreffe beers before and they were fine.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 14, 2020, 05:59:42 PM
St Bernardus Wit - S+ / S+ / S

That's fantastic. Wow. Peach, honey, pepper, sherbet. Beast tier. Even my wife loved it.


Timmermans Oude Gueuze 2019 - ???/ A- / E-

Remarkable stuff. Reminds me almost of sake, when you get one that's quite ripe and cheesy. Almost scrumpy in some ways. Probably never buy it again but glad I tried it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2020, 09:25:16 PM
Meester Tripel - ****

Oooh fuck. This one was really good so prepare yourselves for verbosity.

The aroma was perhaps even like woodland on opening, not what I'd expected of a tripel. The initial flavour was like Westmalle Tripel meets a Double IPA. A clear and lingering bitter hop hit. Then, as I often find with Belgian ales (versus the all-too-common one note IPAs - whether you like them or not, they tend to consistently deliver the same taste from beginning to end), the flavour morphs over the drink. Towards the end as the temperature of the liquid increased and the carbonation dulled it was drinking as a more creamy, outright indulgent Tripel in its classic form. Perhaps even more like Tripel Karmeliet itself towards the end.

Highly recommend.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 14, 2020, 09:35:39 PM
Sounds based af

I'll get on with it
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 14, 2020, 09:43:57 PM
Why/ how are Thornbridge tory filth (not that I'm a fan or anything)

How do you get free beer?

Jim Harrison who owns Thornbridge Brewery and Thornbridge Hall where Thornbridge Brewery takes it's name from is married to Emma Harrison who founded A4e. A4e is a for-profit organisation "helping" steel workers retrain with contracts from government. The company was rife with fraud and even though she wasn't directly implicated (well she was forced to resign from some position Cameron appointed her to) she took millions in pay from a company that was basically funded by us to help the unemployed. The also paid themselves money from A4e to use of Thornbridge Hall. All from taxpayers money.

Point is, as far as I can make out, Thornbridge Brewery was funded from unethical cash and I want nowt to do with them. I am sure there are many breweries that are equally dodgy but this is one I at least know of. Soz guys.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2020, 10:11:56 PM
I don't full-on boycott Thornbridge but tend to steer clear where there's other options. It's a shame the best city pub in Leeds to open in years, The Banker's Cat*, is a big fuck off Thornbridge piss palace. It's a joint-venture with Pivovar who do the lovely Sheffield Tap, York Tap, etc and import nice Czech + European beers, so I usuallly go for those. I must admit to the odd pint of Lord Marples from time to time.


*which features a brand new full size stained glass window and enormous bank vault door in the cellar.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 14, 2020, 10:21:15 PM
Final beer to report for now:

Bink Blond, from Sint-Truiden near Liege, (though on the Flemish speaking side) - ***

At 5.5% this is a tad low for a Belgian blonde which tend to be more around 5.8-7%, but the idea seems to be to compensate with plenty of bittersweetness. This is a well hopped blonde and when you have a mouthful it leaves a lingering but low-key and pleasant hop-burn not that dissimilar to a good pilsner. The sweetness lingers just as the hops do, which is a nice satisfying aftertaste, so you don't feel the need to keep chugging to get the hit. It's basically there for a minute, if not longer. In fact some stronger pilsners I've drunk leave a not dissimilar aftertaste. Good to savour and yet probably satisfying to knock back too.

Otherwise it's good a nice colour, golden with almost frosted cloudiness. A bit like the Ename Pater, this stands up pretty well if you're a hophead, and will still delight fans of Belgium's trad products.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on April 15, 2020, 08:20:26 AM
It's a shame the best city pub in Leeds to open in years, The Banker's Cat*, is a big fuck off Thornbridge piss palace.

Jesus Christ, I'm out of the loop nowadays, never even heard of that. Still, it's very rare I drink in town, given the Cardigan Arms is five minutes walk from my house.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 15, 2020, 08:55:29 AM
Beerwulf seem to have run out of a lot of stuff.
Just ordered this though:
https://www.beerwulf.com/en-gb/p/beercases/bockbeer

Bloody hell! It just arrived!
From order placed to delivered in about 20 hours!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 15, 2020, 08:59:03 AM
I've put on four pounds in a week and my cack is honking like a clown's shoe, remembered the only downsides of beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: sardines on April 15, 2020, 11:59:50 AM
Ename Pater - classic lower strength (5.5%) patersbier. Unfiltered blonde with a lovely tingling, zesty bittersweetness that gathers on your palate. You'd almost think it was a tripel, there's that much going on.

Fans of Brasserie De La Senne's stuff should enjoy it, may even be pleasantly surprised how it fulfils their hophead needs.

*** and a half

Ah that is a lovely beer. There was a short lived cafe 10 minutes from me with the Ename range on tap and a small sunny terrace. I'd kill for that now.
Witkap Stimulo is a similar beer if you ever see that around (a side note it makes good beer batter for fish).

I've been working my way through a relatively new brewery here- 'VBCDK Kerel'. Their tedious 'untouched by monks /non - traditional' marketing would tip you over. Ironically their old styles (saison, bier de garde) are far better than the various fruit "ipas" .
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 15, 2020, 12:39:42 PM
Jesus Christ, I'm out of the loop nowadays, never even heard of that. Still, it's very rare I drink in town, given the Cardigan Arms is five minutes walk from my house.

Used to be the case for me, I'm in Kirkstall nowadays but it's on the way home from work. Far too tempting to pop in for a pint. Mind you, I'm not a massive fan of Kirkstall Brewery's main offerings (Dissolution can be v nice at times).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 15, 2020, 01:06:29 PM
Ah that is a lovely beer. There was a short lived cafe 10 minutes from me with the Ename range on tap and a small sunny terrace. I'd kill for that now.
Witkap Stimulo is a similar beer if you ever see that around (a side note it makes good beer batter for fish).

I've been working my way through a relatively new brewery here- 'VBCDK Kerel'. Their tedious 'untouched by monks /non - traditional' marketing would tip you over. Ironically their old styles (saison, bier de garde) are far better than the various fruit "ipas" .

Thanks, interesting read. Where are you based, approximately? I have had a couple of Witkap Stimulo and I think their range is fairly good. That one took another go to really get the point of it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: peanutbutter on April 15, 2020, 03:42:29 PM
Lidl sell four cans of 4% for £2.45
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: jake thunder on April 15, 2020, 04:38:30 PM
Lidl sell four cans of 4% for £2.45

😂😂😂
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 15, 2020, 04:40:02 PM
Shoulders' piss has a higher volume than that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 15, 2020, 08:35:34 PM
Speaking of which

Petrus Tripel *** - Not much to report on this one. Amber coloured 8.5% Tripel. A maltier toasty flavour unfortunately slightly dampens what you're hoping for from a good Tripel, that fresh zingy estery hoppy, bubbly creamy thing. It's a competent one and I enjoyed drinking it but it's surprisingly by-the-numbers. They should revamp their range like they have done with their sours.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 15, 2020, 09:07:22 PM
Leffe Tripel - ****

Seems weird to be rating a Leffe beer alongside some of the best of their style, but their tripel has always been a strong creation, making it all the more frustrating you can usually only find Blonde, Bruin and Nectar in the UK.

Their macro-brew owners have pulled a cunt's trick here too. This bottle contains only 300ml, depriving the consumer of 10% of the beer. Well fuck you, frankly.

On to the beer - a classic spicy heady aroma is a useful prompt for what's to come. It has that classic unfiltered gold colour. As a beer fan it just looks delicious, never mind the flavour, which is a little fruity for the style, perhaps a tinge of pineapple and citrus. Herby and spicy too. There is enough bitterness to balance the strength (8.5%). The soft texture and satisfying sherbety bittersweet finish carries it all along very nicely. I recommend giving it a go if you ever get the chance, a pleasant surprise. I do rate their bruin too, it's a nice one.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 16, 2020, 09:10:19 PM
Gerardus Tripel - ** and a half

Too orangey, didn't really achieve the balance something like Leffe Tripel does. The spiciness was nice but just overly fruity for the style. Probably wouldn't buy again given there's so much decent competition.

Ter Dolen Tripel - **** and a half

This is special, really on a par with the classics, Chimay, Karmeliet, Westmalle, Straffe Hendrick (that's up next actually).

It's a shade more amber coloured than most tripels, not as cloudy as some, some light haze. The flavour balance is on song with an instant bittersweet note that seems to pinpoint the right spots on your tongue and linger there. 8.1% is average strength for the style, and they have balanced the oomph of the booze with a sherbety bitterness which combines to leave a satisfying lingering warmth. The type of beer that seduces people into Belgian ales in the first place.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 17, 2020, 06:57:16 AM
Had a couple of Westmalle Tripel last night. Excellent, but I've possibly been spoiled over the past week. It didn't particularly stand out in any way. I would be very pleased if someone offered me one but I'd not go out of my way to order more. I preferred the St Bernardus Tripel, to be honest. Extremely drinkable, mind you. Possibly, it was a little safe after starting with the other bottle of Timmermans Oude Gueuze, which I enjoyed an awful lot more than the first. I will definitely order this again and will look into lambics. If anyone has any particular recommendations within the style, great.

Highlights of my orders are without doubt the Rochefort 10 and - on a rung below - the Ayinger Celebrator. I didn't expect to particularly enjoy this style but there's a lot of depth and beyond the sweetness malty fullness, there's also a crisp finish. With tea, a lot comes down to the finish and the Rochefort in particular nails this.

Beer of the week, though, is the St Bernardus Wit. I didn't even expect it, they threw it in as a sub and I've already got a case on order. Soft, creamy, spicy, herbaceous and peachy. Absolutely delightful.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 17, 2020, 08:04:44 AM
There are two types of trad gueuze to be honest, the affordable stuff and then the pricey high end stuff that craft fans love for the scarcity and obscurity. The stuff that takes up 50% of bottleshop bars fridges going undrunk.

Affordable:
Lindemans Oude Gueuze Cuvee Renee
Boon Geuze
Boon Marriage Parfait
Oud Beersel Gueuze
Mort Subite Gueuze / Oude Gueuze
Chapeau Cuvee 
De Troch Oude Gueuze
Oude Gueuze Dekoninck
At a push, Cantillon Gueuze

Yikes:
Hanssens
Girardin
Cantillon Lou Pepe
3 Fontainen Oude Gueuze blend
Oude Gueuze de Cam
Oude Gueuze Tilquin l'Ancienne
Vandervelden 135
Brett-Elle Oude Gueuze
Angel Foam (the blend made by the legendary Insurance Against Great Thirst country pub near Brussels that only opens once a week)









Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 17, 2020, 04:49:29 PM
Cheers for the info and tier lists. I like what I've read today about the 3 Fontainen. I've seen it for around £8.50 for a 375ml so worth a punt for something the next step up. If I can't notice much difference, I'll try a few more of the affordable list. Definitely intrigued by the style.

Also ordered a handful of St Bernardus 12 to give them a go after loving the Wit, and really enjoying the Tripel. Looking forward to them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 17, 2020, 05:48:40 PM
Given you enjoyed the Timmermans Oude Gueuze I would recommend Cantillon Gueuze and Boon's efforts as the a natural next step, are not off-the-charts pricey and are relatively easy to get hold of. They are a bit drier, some steps up in complexity.

Has anyone given sour blending a go yet?

Earlier in the month I used a bottle of Timmermans Oude Gueuze and we mixed it with kriek, doppelbock, dubbels in different portions. It was good fun. Some misses + some big hits.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 17, 2020, 05:52:28 PM
Tongerlo Prior 9 (tripel) - ****

The Tongerlo main range are apparently abbey beers. I tend to ignore that as it has little meaning, but their range are all very competent and enjoyable takes on classic Belgian styles. This one is too. It's golden in colour, not a strong smell but some nice esters and herbs. The balance of spicy notes, creamy texture and zingy hoppy backing is just right. Really far too enjoyable, as I glance across at the glance and discover it's nearly all gone.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 17, 2020, 11:53:29 PM
Got a Yeastie Boys Gunnamatta, Geuze Boon, Pilsner Urquel and Lost and Grounded Keller Pils courtesy of Waitrose

First up the Yeastie Boys. Loved this beer several years ago when it was coming across in kegs to beer festivals. Bright, colourful, spicy and fantastic with food. I've just poured half of it down the sink. Dead behind the eyes. A great example of what can happen when you get a brewery from Berkshire to brew your NZ beer for supermarkets shelves. Waste of calories. Thankfully the Geuze is the opposite. I'm not really an experienced lambic drinker but this is great for a supermarket beer. Crisp, dry flavours fizz about on the tongue and then arrive in waves to different parts of the mouth. Really refreshing after the moribund slop from YB and worth long detour on the way home! Lost and Grounded's Keller Pils is fine. Nothing extraordinary to report about that.

What's the Hitachino White Ale Nest Beer like? Pretty sure I had it from the famed Cardigan Road Off License but a lot of the their beers were well past their best...
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 18, 2020, 12:20:30 AM
Given you enjoyed the Timmermans Oude Gueuze I would recommend Cantillon Gueuze and Boon's efforts as the a natural next step, are not off-the-charts pricey and are relatively easy to get hold of. They are a bit drier, some steps up in complexity.

Has anyone given sour blending a go yet?

Earlier in the month I used a bottle of Timmermans Oude Gueuze and we mixed it with kriek, doppelbock, dubbels in different portions. It was good fun. Some misses + some big hits.

You have just broken a memory. I was given something like this once by Mick from The Free Trade when he did one of his Belgian dos. Was a load of fun but I was already mortal. Oh god. The possibilities. Definitely mix it in with the big doubles Ior quadruples I  reckon.

My final comment about all things Gueze is that there is one common brand in Belgium that do a cheap Gueze and it is fucking vile. Genuinely undrinkable shite. Syrupy and almost most cheesey. Gross. Problem is it I can't remember what it was!! Edit: I think it might be the Mort Subite... is it just me that thinks this? Open to the idea I had a bad bottle.

Anyway, if you are reading this thread and want to try gueze I would recommend getting a couple of different brands to try to work out for yourself what makes the style similar across the brands.

Or, just grab a Lindemans. I've got a 70cl bottle here for £8 and it is perfectly fine and tastes like what a gueze should be without being one of the higher end ones.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle on April 18, 2020, 08:57:53 AM
Had a 4 pack of innes and gun last night.  During beer 4 I realised i don't actually like the taste of it much.  I'm no expert, but i think it might be too "hoppy".  I feel the same about alot of posh beer also, i think i actually prefer cooking lager like fosters.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 18, 2020, 09:00:26 AM
Hitachino Wit is good stuff, phes. Faithful to the style. One of the times I had it I got really excited and loved it. Only been nice or OK since that one time.

As for the shit Gueuze, hummingofevil, probably was Mort Subite, likewise their fruit beers tend to not be legit Lambic either, with syrup instead of proper fruit. However I actually like their Gueuze. It isn't trying to be Cantillon or an unsweetened Gueuze. Traditionally Belgians would have their Gueuze with a cube of sugar. There is even a bar tool called a stoemper they had especially for the task of mashing it in. Mort Subite is really what happens if you make a cheap Gueuze and add sugar. Again I think it's pretty pleasant to be honest. Enough Gueuze flavour and pretty uncomplicated. It's one to give people as a very mild intro to the style. From memory it was the first Gueuze I tried, at Cafe Vlissinghe in Brugge.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 18, 2020, 11:30:01 AM
Just popped to Waitrose. 375ml Boon Geuze for £3.25? Yes please. Timmermans Oude Gueuze was £4.50 at Morrisons.

Erdinger Pikantus weizenbock for £2.20? YES PLEASE
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Twit 2 on April 18, 2020, 12:41:58 PM
Goebbels Spatchcock for €2.56? Rather!
Ratzinger Drekloch £0.7? YES!
Seinsvergessenheit Kartoffelkunt for $Gimpence? In the basket!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 18, 2020, 01:42:39 PM
ADD TO CART
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on April 18, 2020, 02:11:51 PM
Erdinger Pikantus weizenbock for £2.20? YES PLEASE

Yeah...they had a 3 for £5 deal on a few weeks back. Pikantused myself to fuck. Not exactly the best weizenbock in the world, but a damn tasty drink nonetheless.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 18, 2020, 03:08:21 PM
Yeah, it was near to my absolute faves at some point but I brought some to a bottle share several years ago and it didnt stand up against the many £25 RRP 750ml bottles of ultra rare/specialist beers other there had brought. (We didn't know how arch or specialist the event was gonna be)

Weizenbock must be near to one of my favourite beer styles. Another one craft brewers seem disinterested in, probably as it isn't a very hoppy style. The richness and complexity (along with the fact they still give you a half litre of the stuff!) competes with the sheer wheaty drinkability so well.

https://www.hopfweisse.de/produkte/muospacher-bockfotzn/

I think this one must be on a par, if not better than Aventinus.

If anyone is ever out at a bar, restaurant etc and they have a German beer that isn't pils or the very big wheat beers please give it a try, as there's such a rich culture we are only marginally exposed to and it will encourage the brewers and distributors to keep sending them across. I know purlieu is lucky to have an off-license near him where the guy's supplier has a very decent line in Bavarian beer, most of us aren't though.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 18, 2020, 07:30:04 PM
I was lucky enough to get a small box of beer delivered today that was an unexpected gift. Contents unimportant to the appreciation and it's turned an otherwise slightly bleak day into a great one. The box was from my local craft bottle shop that has rapidly adjusted its business model into a delivery service. My goodness it has given me a new found appreciation of european sours and lambics. I have a variety of sours made mostly by english breweries. I like a nice, sharp kettle sour. From the perspective of pounding down a couple of refreshing beers on a warm day, it's a good design. It's simple and it works. But I have a few beers here that contain fruits and lactose and beans such as cacao and tonka etc. The way these flavours have been inserted into the beer - very, very, one dimensional. Turning Point, Wild Weather etc. They're charging premium prices for these beers and they're just so basic. Contrasted with the Geuze Boon that I had last night which has layers of sparkling hints at multiple flavours, it's embarrassing. Best beer so far has been the Barcelona Weisse by Eight and i have a bottle of Pharoah Fatalist which i think is one of Brewdog's small batch sours, figs, honey and cask aged apparently. Anyways, lucky, lucky, me. Enjoying a gift and learning some lessons about the vast gulf between what craft breweries are producing in response to the popularity of sours and what experienced european countries produce
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 18, 2020, 07:36:01 PM
Yeah sours are one area I have really enjoyed from craft brewing as they are so easy to find and usually some different ones available, but  the standard can often be far below what you should be getting for your money. Either a totally off flavour balance through trying to do too many things at once (but hey, swish can + ££££ pricing so it must be good right) or as you say, a just completely unremarkable one-note flavour.

Off the top of my head, Chorlton and Wild Beer Co have done some brilliant ones though.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: bgmnts on April 18, 2020, 07:39:54 PM
I know bugger all about ales, stouts, lagers or mead but what the fuck is this?

https://www.tinyrebel.co.uk/beer/cwtch


Is that normal for the beer world? It is an eyesore. I wouldn't drink anything with that name or from that can.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 18, 2020, 07:41:41 PM
Yes, it is normal these days. Nearly all Tiny Rebel's stuff have very garish designs.

Cwtch red ale itself is lovely, particularly in handpulled cask form.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 18, 2020, 07:44:34 PM
Chorlton do some excellent sours. I used to live up the road from the Chorlton guy and I chatted to him a couple of times in a local. He is, well, a live wire. I've also been on dates or in relationships with three women who have been on a date with him and each one has declined to go back for a second date. Nothing overly sinister, just, fuck that
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: bgmnts on April 18, 2020, 07:46:46 PM
Yes, it is normal these days. Nearly all Tiny Rebel's stuff have very garish designs.

Cwtch red ale itself is lovely, particularly in handpulled cask form.

Hmm may try it then, just down the road.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 18, 2020, 07:50:19 PM
Cwtch is indeed an excellent beer, both cask and keg. I cannot get on board with their vast range of novelty ales, gin and tonic pales, jam donut milkshake IPAs etc. Each and every one tastes like shit to me. Lactose in a pale cask beer, really?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on April 18, 2020, 08:08:24 PM
Chorlton do some excellent sours. I used to live up the road from the Chorlton guy and I chatted to him a couple of times in a local. He is, well, a live wire. I've also been on dates or in relationships with three women who have been on a date with him and each one has declined to go back for a second date. Nothing overly sinister, just, fuck that

Is it based in Chorlton or just uses the name?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 18, 2020, 08:18:26 PM
I think it originated in Chorlton, but it moved to the arches in MCR city centre and the head brewer lived in the foothills of the peaks
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Twit 2 on April 18, 2020, 09:00:17 PM
Twatbeer in the Cuntface - 3p!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 18, 2020, 09:22:23 PM
Twatbeer in the Cuntface - 3p!

ADDED TO CART +1
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 18, 2020, 11:36:33 PM
Hitachino Wit is good stuff, phes. Faithful to the style. One of the times I had it I got really excited and loved it. Only been nice or OK since that one time.

As for the shit Gueuze, hummingofevil, probably was Mort Subite, likewise their fruit beers tend to not be legit Lambic either, with syrup instead of proper fruit. However I actually like their Gueuze. It isn't trying to be Cantillon or an unsweetened Gueuze. Traditionally Belgians would have their Gueuze with a cube of sugar. There is even a bar tool called a stoemper they had especially for the task of mashing it in. Mort Subite is really what happens if you make a cheap Gueuze and add sugar. Again I think it's pretty pleasant to be honest. Enough Gueuze flavour and pretty uncomplicated. It's one to give people as a very mild intro to the style. From memory it was the first Gueuze I tried, at Cafe Vlissinghe in Brugge.

Cheers. Its' stuff like this that makes me love this website. :)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 18, 2020, 11:44:28 PM
I think Chorlton started in Stretford. Close enough but obviously Stretford Sours has a slight more unfortunate initialism. I agree. Love their beers and Font pretty much always has something on from them on keg.

As for Tiny Rebel, they are from Newport but have a big brew pub literally right opposite the walkway to the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff. Obviously, days out in Cardiff tend to be massive pissups for whatever reason one may visit for but don't miss that if you going. I really like most of their range including the jam donut one. :)

God I want to go to the pub so much. Especially if that pub is in Brugge or Brussels and serves the nectar of the gods.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: The Culture Bunker on April 19, 2020, 08:24:07 PM
I did have three 330ml cans of Vocation Brewery's Pride and Joy IPA, which was very nice. Three for a fiver I guess is alright too, I mean it's certainly way more than x2 better than Amstel, which you can get twice as much for the same price.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 19, 2020, 08:38:44 PM
Tripel d'Anvers and Tripel Kanninik

Not gonna do reviews as had them before but they were exquisite and disappeared in a flash.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 19, 2020, 09:48:19 PM
Seems Chorlton Brewing Co is moving to Estonia, which comes as no great surprise as I believe he had already been spending a great deal of time in Europe researching traditional, local brewing techniques. I now can't find the link discussing the move so am wondering if I dreamed this

Edit: Nope, according to their twitter they have moved to Belgium/Estonia, they are brewing out of De Proef and there are plans afoot to develop a Lambic over the next couple of years. Their beer will still be available here as before unless the pound tanks further. I haven't seen a Chorlton beer in over two years.
 
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 19, 2020, 10:27:15 PM
https://ebrowarium.pl/

Just made my first order on this site I mentioned upthread specialising in Polish beers.

I've thrown a couple of German beers in there too, but the order panned out as £78.30 for 30 500ml bottles, which is £2.61 a bottle.

Some interesting stuff on there. Baltic porter, doppelbock, grodziskie, smoked stout, weird lagers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 20, 2020, 07:50:38 PM
Coolin' it with a bottle of Old Peculier this evening. It's standing up nicely given the rich stuff I've been drinking.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on April 20, 2020, 10:08:36 PM
Just looking at beersofeurope.co.uk where I got all those dunkels the other week, their supply is decimated and I mean literally decimated, practically all the German wheat beers are out of stock. It's just so dreadfully remiss. 
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 20, 2020, 11:46:09 PM
Yep I think they BoE are just trying to clear out their stock by the look of it without placing new orders.

I hadn't realised just how poor the options are for shipping German beer to the UK but there really isn't much going. In comparison to Belgium which has about 30 websites.

Even ebrowarium.pl emailed today to say they didn't have the German beers I had tacked on to the order.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 21, 2020, 04:39:15 PM
Bless the dedicated fuckers, that haul of Polish beer referenced above should be delivered on April 24th. I think that ought to be either the last or last but one Beer order before the lockdown restrictions start being eased in mid May and into June.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on April 21, 2020, 05:06:53 PM
I hadn't realised just how poor the options are for shipping German beer to the UK but there really isn't much going. In comparison to Belgium which has about 30 websites.

It is very disconcerting. Especially when you consider how many big supermarket chains appear to have reduced their range of German beers over the past few years (you're lucky if you can even find Erdinger in Tesco nowadays). It only seems to be Waitrose and M&S still fighting the good fight.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 21, 2020, 05:21:59 PM
Had a delivery from Fourpure earlier.
Don't think I've ordered from them before, but I will see how it goes.
Got 20% off + free p&p, so the very worst thing that can happen is that I'll get drunk.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 21, 2020, 06:05:22 PM
Straffe Hendrik Quadrupel

Almost as good as Rochefort 12. This is a hell of a beer to come home to after a day of death.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 21, 2020, 06:09:10 PM
Bless the dedicated fuckers, that haul of Polish beer referenced above should be delivered on April 24th. I think that ought to be either the last or last but one Beer order before the lockdown restrictions start being eased in mid May and into June.

What? Are you just going to saunter back to you old pub-haunting habits?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 21, 2020, 06:38:00 PM
What? Are you just going to saunter back to your old pub-haunting habits?

Saunter? Perhaps. Or pootle.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 21, 2020, 06:42:15 PM
Straffe Hendrik Quadrupel

Almost as good as Rochefort 12. This is a hell of a beer to come home to after a day of death.

Improves significantly over an hour. One of the longest beers I've had in my life. Very good stuff, rich caramel, chocolatey, body for days and some deeper herbal notes. A slightly crisp finish despite the sweetness. I would say the Rochefort 12 is even better but this is a lovely alternative.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 21, 2020, 06:47:56 PM
Conspiracy?

There is no Rochefort 12!

I did one try a Straffe Hendrick Quad which had been barrel aged. Rarely drunk any beer as complex as that one.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 21, 2020, 07:16:24 PM
Shows you how good the Straffe Hendrik was!

I meant the 10, yeah. I've got a few Bernardus 12 sitting there too, which are gnawing away at my subconscious numeracy.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 22, 2020, 12:45:10 PM
What are the chances of mixing Manns Brown Ale with a Gueuze and it working? Bored so thought I'd get the cheapest fuddiest dark ale in the shop and give it a go.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 22, 2020, 12:56:45 PM
Suspect you wouldn't need too much at all to liven it up. Maybe test it out with a 5:1
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 22, 2020, 01:30:24 PM
Really, that ratio? When we were blending the Timmermans we obviously experimented but found most required a bigger splash of Gueuze. With Manns being super mild I expect you might be right.

Anyway, one of the last Belgian batch to review

Corsendonk Agnus - ****
Another Tripel, this brand is one of the better thought of Abbey beers, competing respectably with mid-brow Trappist stuff such as the likes of Achel for method and quality. This is a superb brew. Gold going on amber colour, yet a sickly herby aroma which is definitely not the best aspect. Doesn't taste off, just not appealling. However, in the gob is where it comes alive. Malty for a Tripel but backed up with spice and potentially dry hops which resolves into this lovely creamy, zingy, rich elixir. Very drinkable for its strength, though at 7.5% that's light for a Tripel. Definitely among the best of the bunch.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on April 22, 2020, 03:40:39 PM
Absolutely love a 'donk 'gnus.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: bgmnts on April 22, 2020, 10:21:27 PM
Went to the beer aisle of morrisons for first time, fucking hell. 700 different products on one shelf, all with really stupid name like Disco Forklift Truck, Cross the Rubicon and Chimpy Fingers.

Don't get it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 23, 2020, 08:12:00 AM
Describe a beer aisle that would put you at ease.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on April 23, 2020, 08:25:00 AM
Went to the beer aisle of morrisons for first time, fucking hell. 700 different products on one shelf, all with really stupid name like Disco Forklift Truck, Cross the Rubicon and Chimpy Fingers.

Don't get it.

All hoppy IPA's as well I expect
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: bgmnts on April 23, 2020, 11:47:49 AM
Describe a beer aisle that would put you at ease.

Less choice, fewer stupid names, nicer bottles.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on April 23, 2020, 02:33:15 PM
Less choice, fewer stupid names, nicer bottles.

This. What's the point of stocking a million identical cans of average to poor hoppy IPA plastered in wacky marketing and not a great deal else. Better to have a wider selection of really good stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 23, 2020, 05:02:39 PM
This. What's the point of stocking a million identical cans of average to poor hoppy IPA plastered in wacky marketing and not a great deal else. Better to have a wider selection of really good stuff.

It's exactly what they've been doing with lager and ale for as long as I can remember. On the whole (complaints about a drop off in German beers aside) there hasn't ever been a better time to buy beer in a British supermarket. You just have to sift through explosion of pale, hoppy rubbish to find it. If the rubbish is that easy to identify, what's the problem?

Marks and Spencer seem to be doing a reasonable  job of selecting their hoppy IPA'y stuff. Magic Rock and Mikeller have continued making good beer and Beavertowns is acceptable. Apart from the new Bloody 'Ell, which is an atrocity

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 23, 2020, 05:13:28 PM
This. What's the point of stocking a million identical cans of average to poor hoppy IPA plastered in wacky marketing and not a great deal else. Better to have a wider selection of really good stuff.

I appreciate not everyone has the same Morrisons but from the two I visit I think their choice is wide and covers a lot of bases.

Before you even get to the haze-cans, IPAs, sours etc there's:

- At least 10 brands of very standard lager in boxes and small bottles
- 15-20 brands of premium lager in big bottles (Budvar, Pilsner, Krombacher, Peroni etc)
- A big row of maybe 50+ traditional English ales in 500ml bottles, so bitter, golden ale, old fashion pale ale, dark ale, stout, porter, ruby etc
- A 'Yorkshire' section (yours may have a different one) of local breweries, so a mix of trad and new styles.
- A least 3 German wheatbeers and a few rows of Belgian beers of about 10 different styles.

What is a wide selection of really good stuff in your opinion? I've visited specialist bottle shops which had no better selection than that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on April 23, 2020, 05:50:34 PM
Apart from the new Bloody 'Ell, which is an atrocity

Yes. I had an argument with a friend over this.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 23, 2020, 08:25:39 PM
Had another St. Bernardus Abt 12 this evening before dinner and after being slightly underwhelmed first time around, albeit after a rich meal, I thought it was superb. A bit of everything there, starts with slightly sickly caramel, then goes deeper and maltier, fruit and nuts, some herbal notes and then a lovely crisp slightly hoppy bitter bite at the very end. Really looking forward to some A/B action with a Rochefort 10 to compare. Got another few Straffe Hendrik so will tuck in tomorrow before dinner and see what else I get from it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 23, 2020, 08:36:38 PM
Had to leave the Bernardus 12 for my missus to enjoy (I had the Rochefort 8 so I think I know who's winning). Bernardus 12 is apparently the beer to try if you can't be fucked spending £10-£20 on a single bottle of Westvleteren, as the recipe originated from Sint-Sixtus' master brewer.

Pilsner Urquell this evening. It's warm tonight and the familiar reliable lingering Saaz hops are just right. I should have bought a packet of pretzels though, ffs.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 23, 2020, 09:55:56 PM
Nice, I didn't know that. That's actually convinced me to get a few Westvleteren so I can see whether it's worth the effort/investment if they're of an ilk. Given how bourbon has gone apeshit these days, a bottle of the superb Stagg Jr. is far preferable to the absurd lottery chasing and secondary market jizz fiesta of trying to locate a George T. Stagg for anything near RRP (or simply for less than a grand). I'll be interested to see whether this might be a similar situation. I'll be well chuffed if Barnardo is there or thereabouts.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on April 23, 2020, 10:12:11 PM
Why do so many people on here have such disdain for pales and IPAs? Shoulders, you're not allowed to use the word 'gloop'.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 23, 2020, 10:41:42 PM
Why do so many people on here have such disdain for pales and IPAs? Shoulders, you're not allowed to use the word 'gloop'.

Careful cultivation of the audience. Keep the hopheads at the fringes then isolate and burn them from discussions.

You've seen a candle getting snuffed out by a thumb and forefinger.

Zhrup.

Lol

Or those people can't be fucked getting into it on here and I can. .. I am fairly sure phes and Blue Jam and a few others are keen on craft and are closeish to what newish is going on in the scene.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 23, 2020, 11:11:35 PM
I zoned out a few years ago when NEIPA became almost the IPA standard in bars. I can't get on board with the whole milkshakey soft mouthfeel you get from these poorly flocculated, pale, sweet drinks. I'm wedded to the dry and bitter modern IPA's of the first half of the last decade, and they occupy much less space than they once did. And as bgmnts pointed out, there is a huge range of very disappointing ipas now available in supermarkets. I've tried a number and a lot taste like IPA flavoured fizzy drinks. So I'm not down on IPAs, my nose is just out of joint that my favoured style is long out of fashion. Was dead chuffed to see last week that a friend who always gets a bunch of NEIPA from his local bottle shop received a can of Omnipollo's Nebuchadnezzer. Hope he enjoyed it.

I'm all for pales in bars. I've had many, many more enjoyable pales than IPAs in recent years.

Edit: What's particularly frustrating is that it's no longer possible to buy drinks by Odell, Dale's, Ska or Stone in most bottle shops that I can or have been able to walk to. In the case of Stones and Dales it's because they're now available in Tesco after they opened new breweries in Berlin, but they taste like shit to me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 24, 2020, 01:15:55 AM
Why do so many people on here have such disdain for pales and IPAs? Shoulders, you're not allowed to use the word 'gloop'.

I am a hop person, but I’m boozing from a different pool of ales that aren’t available in the UK so there’s no point in me recommending (for example) Left Field’s Greenwood because it’s not available for the majority of the people reading this. And that’s fine.

(I am cheerfully wolfing down an Amsterdam Boneshaker as I type this, which is excellent out of the can).

I don’t understand the constant desire for sickly Belgian 9% beer, but different strokes innit? Doesn’t cause me harm so go nuts lads. Beer nerds should be able to all get along, that’s my position.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 24, 2020, 01:18:27 AM
I zoned out a few years ago when NEIPA became almost the IPA standard in bars. I can't get on board with the whole milkshakey soft mouthfeel you get from these poorly flocculated, pale, sweet drinks. I'm wedded to the dry and bitter modern IPA's of the first half of the last decade, and they occupy much less space than they once did. And as bgmnts pointed out, there is a huge range of very disappointing ipas now available in supermarkets. I've tried a number and a lot taste like IPA flavoured fizzy drinks. So I'm not down on IPAs, my nose is just out of joint that my favoured style is long out of fashion. Was dead chuffed to see last week that a friend who always gets a bunch of NEIPA from his local bottle shop received a can of Omnipollo's Nebuchadnezzer. Hope he enjoyed it.

I'm all for pales in bars. I've had many, many more enjoyable pales than IPAs in recent years.

Edit: What's particularly frustrating is that it's no longer possible to buy drinks by Odell, Dale's, Ska or Stone in most bottle shops that I can or have been able to walk to. In the case of Stones and Dales it's because they're now available in Tesco after they opened new breweries in Berlin, but they taste like shit to me.

Yeah I think that%u2019s fair. It%u2019s a style that is often attempted but rarely mastered. When you find a good one though... phwoarr.

Never been impressed by Stones tbh, we have a number of local breweries that outperform them pretty handily on all styles (and I imagine you do as well), but I suspect that is to do with the tins being knocked to shit in transit. Hoppier styles are better fresh, ergo they are better local. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 24, 2020, 07:06:56 AM
It's not transit. Whole point of opening breweries in Berlin must be to have a cheaper, faster, smoother and more joined up route to sales in Europe. Those beers are probably younger, fresher, better kept than the ones coming across from their original home breweries. Something just 'ain't right. Notably with Dale's, which is really poor. Ska have managed to keep making a good Modus Hoperandi for M&S shelves, though sadly it's dropped from those recently. I haven't checked if they have opened a European premises or are producing via another brewery, but I suspect not.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 24, 2020, 07:35:49 AM
Incidentally, I read somewhere that Stone's Berlin venture hasn't exactly gone well.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on April 24, 2020, 09:07:35 AM
Incidentally, I read somewhere that Stone's Berlin venture hasn't exactly gone well.

Those tescos cans are pretty bad, one of them tastes so pine needly unpleasant.

I do actually like IPA's/Pales, but I think the syle is a bit played out and what has emerged as the standard is a bit boring and tired. First of all it seemed to become a hops/bitterness contest, and now that's tailed off a bit and there's a lot of very bland stuff which other than the smell/initial taste of hops basically has no flavor or character whatsover.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 24, 2020, 09:10:42 AM
How fucking long do Belgian in Box take to deliver - feels like months now
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 24, 2020, 09:53:40 AM
My last BiaB order was ordered on 31st March and delivered 8th April.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 24, 2020, 09:57:25 AM
Incidentally, I read somewhere that Stone's Berlin venture hasn't exactly gone well.

Seems so. Haven't read beyond this article but if it all went as described then incredible hubris and lol etc

https://www.brewbound.com/news/stone-brewing-unloads-berlin-brewery-to-brewdog
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 24, 2020, 09:57:51 AM
Well my ebrowarium.pl delivery arrived bright and early this morning. 30 x 500ml bottles of Polish craft beer.

Dark:
4 x Black ipa
4 x Schwarzbier/dark lager
5 x Porter/Baltic porter
2 x Munich dunkel
1 x Stout
1 X Belgian style quadrupel
1 x Rauchbock

Light:
5 x Hefeweizen
3 x light lager
1 x 'Polish ale'
1 x Grodziskie
1 x Wit
1 x Belgian style tripel

They have shit tonnes of pale ales and IPA if that's more your thing. Most from highly recommended breweries, some of which have even collaborated with English breweries in the past.

£72 for 30 so not too bad, and it's arrived only 5 days after placing my order.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 24, 2020, 11:06:11 AM
My last BiaB order was ordered on 31st March and delivered 8th April.

still preparing order - 15 days, but then again I did rather go for some odd choices that they are probably hunting some musty cellar for.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 24, 2020, 11:06:39 AM
Well my ebrowarium.pl delivery arrived bright and early this morning. 30 x 500ml bottles of Polish craft beer.

Dark:
4 x Black ipa
4 x Schwarzbier/dark lager
5 x Porter/Baltic porter
2 x Munich dunkel
1 x Stout
1 X Belgian style quadrupel
1 x Rauchbock

Light:
5 x Hefeweizen
3 x light lager
1 x 'Polish ale'
1 x Grodziskie
1 x Wit
1 x Belgian style tripel

They have shit tonnes of pale ales and IPA if that's more your thing. Most from highly recommended breweries, some of which have even collaborated with English breweries in the past.

£72 for 30 so not too bad, and it's arrived only 5 days after placing my order.
grrrr
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on April 24, 2020, 11:15:17 AM
still preparing order - 15 days, but then again I did rather go for some odd choices that they are probably hunting some musty cellar for.

Mine's still just at 'Payment accepted', on the 17th. Feels like I've been waiting decades for these beautiful beers.

Probably some corpulent Belgian sitting there in his beer cave, laughing: 'Har har, waar is je brexit nu'
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 24, 2020, 11:31:29 AM
Schwarzbier/dark lager

I rather liked that.
Once my brain got over how it looked was nothing like how it tasted anyway.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on April 24, 2020, 11:35:01 AM
There's a tiny garden-shed brewery round here that does a 'smoked' beer. It's odd.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on April 24, 2020, 12:25:11 PM
Well my ebrowarium.pl delivery arrived bright and early this morning. 30 x 500ml bottles of Polish craft beer.

Dark:
4 x Black ipa
4 x Schwarzbier/dark lager
5 x Porter/Baltic porter
2 x Munich dunkel
1 x Stout
1 X Belgian style quadrupel
1 x Rauchbock

Light:
5 x Hefeweizen
3 x light lager
1 x 'Polish ale'
1 x Grodziskie
1 x Wit
1 x Belgian style tripel

Nice. Which Dunkels and Hefeweizens?

Fallen back on Booths for my German beer fix, picked up some Ayinger Kellerbier and Altbairisch Dunkel today. Could quite happily live off that and their Paulaner/Hacker-Pschorr/Weihenstephaner ranges TBH
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 24, 2020, 05:56:55 PM
St. Bernardus Tripel

Again, I've started this before dinner (with no lunch) and I think my hungry, thirsty palate has dug deeper into it. Quite sweet and malty on the nose but immediately got a juicy bitterness on the tongue. Great mouthfeel, frothy, little spicy. It's far too moreish because of that initial burst of flavour and the bitter, grassy finish. Like I was saying about the 12, a fantastic balance. Very refreshing for the 8%.

S+ (from the tripels I've had) / S+ (very good, I will be gifting a few of these) / A+ (shit munchers would love it).

Almost guaranteed to play Berryz Kobo - Natsumatsuri and dance round the living room with my wife after a couple of these.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 24, 2020, 05:57:14 PM
2 x Gessner Alt Sumbarcher Dunkel (the only German one)

The wheat beers

Inne Beczki Pszeniczne
Jan Olbracht Smietanka
Sandy Hefeweizen
Wrezel Pszeniczne
Jurajskie Pszeniczne
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 24, 2020, 06:07:48 PM
St. Bernardus Tripel

I dug one of these from a cardboard box reduced bin in a local micro for £1. Best beer I'd had in a year of drinking there, and I'd had plenty of good beer. There was nothing wrong with it, just wasn't selling and was taking up the limited fridge space.

One of the downsides of micros, that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 24, 2020, 07:18:42 PM
I kinda think these places, micropubs and bottle shops, have odd selections and fail to promote beers like that. Far too many have unsold ridiculously expensive Gueuzes taking up a fifth of the fridge. Yes, they pay you £25 if someone buys on but you can make that difference pretty easily by stocking stuff people want. Hell, keep room for a couple of wacky aged gueuzes if you care that much.

Belgian beer is the opposite of what's currently fashionable really. They are low on info about what you're getting vs craft which saturates you with factoids about its creation. The beer itself is considerably sweeter, less hop focused and you won't get any cool points unless it's one of the few that craft beer fans rate (De La Senne, the original Gueuze brewers and blenders, De Struise etc).

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 24, 2020, 07:30:17 PM
Scum cunts
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 24, 2020, 10:15:01 PM
Girlfriend bought back 2 boxes of Punk IPA for out Friday party night. Oh what a shame. I can remember my first ever can of Punk in 4 pack and it felt like the Michael Angelo's god reaching down and touching me with fruity lovelyness. Never had anything like it before. This is just a can of pure meh. Booze for booze sakes.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 24, 2020, 10:22:11 PM
Has it really changed that much since they started canning? I recall bottles in the early days being pretty fair but the punk and Elvis Juice I've tasted in the last year or so are awful. Washed out, metallic, beer flavoured drink

Best supermarket beer they did was when tesco was selling hardcore IPA (9.2%) under their own branding, 3 for £5. Around the time of the Brazilian WC. That seems to have been replaced by Mr President, which is acceptable but not quite as good. It may even be the same beer as I've just realised it's the same abv. I would buy this and top it with a lighter beer like a pilsner over drinking their canned beers. It's head and shoulders above them
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 24, 2020, 10:49:26 PM
As far as Brewdog is concerned they just need to make it taste of more than Carlsberg and a generation will be buying it from now to kingdom come. For that group it represented progress, regardless of the fact US beers had been brewing very similar beers for a decade earlier. To give it its dues, when you think of a beer that was a touchstone moment for a mass of people in the UK realising they didn't have to drink the very shittest lager all the time, it's Punk IPA. It didn't hit me with the same power as by the mid 00s I was getting into German and Belgian beer, and basically already liked a range of British ale. But for some raised on party packs of lagers it will have synchronised perfectly with their desire to have something different.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 24, 2020, 10:54:09 PM
It's happening already. I have several friends who for a reason that I don't know and isn't my business to know, find themselves at the mercy of whatever beer their (non beer drinking) partner brings back with the shopping. It's always cans of brewdog. Perfect storm of getting their marketing right and as you say, making beer that's better than all the worst beers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 24, 2020, 11:38:30 PM
I liked the punk IPA I had in the UK, though that was probably 6 (?) years ago at this point. Thought it was a perfectly serviceable west coast IPA, and I’ve had some stinkers over the years.

Presumably since they got really big everything has turned to shit?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 25, 2020, 05:19:27 AM
Can't speak for the keg punk but both the cans I've had in the last couple of years have been very poor indeed. It just doesn't taste alive any more, like a microwave meal. Worse actually, it tastes bad. That said, a lot of water has passed under the bridge since I first tried the drink in the early 2010s, so I can't discount personal taste development.

I'd be interested to taste-test the canned beer against the kegged beer they serve at their outlets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way supermarkets work and the quality of their equipment should enable them to serve a more consistent, tightly controlled product than in early years? If the product has got worse then it's going to be related to decisions or problems with scaling at the production end? My guess would be that they've had to change the recipe to meet the enormous production demands, to make it more accessible, or both. It's probably the hops that have changed as to meet contractual demand of brewing a beer on that scale requires a hop that's economical, secure to source and consistent in quality.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 25, 2020, 08:43:49 AM
I used to get a four-pack of Punk IPA and quite happily knock it back while doing something else, certainly not savouring it or thinking about tasting notes, but enjoying a bit of bite and tropical citrus. It was a good Sainsbury's Local choice for me. It actually has/had some taste, better than the standard lagers as Shoulders said and I do like a hoppy IPA.

It's simplistic and now maybe it is a bit bland, I've not had one for months, but as a (kinda) session IPA over the course of an evening, I would quite happily choose that. I would occasionally get a few bottles of English ale, Landlord or whatever, but I find them pretty bland compared to what you'd get in a good pub. I mostly stopped buying Punk because I stopped drinking at home (for several months before lockdown) and before that, I would almost always drink wine at home, anyway. Would I now choose to buy some when I'm doing the weekly/fortnightly shop? Not when I've got Barnardo in the cellar, know what I mean? I did just want to give it a little nod, though. Pour one out for Punk.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on April 25, 2020, 08:45:12 AM
Girlfriend bought back 2 boxes of Punk IPA for out Friday party night. Oh what a shame. I can remember my first ever can of Punk in 4 pack and it felt like the Michael Angelo's god reaching down and touching me with fruity lovelyness. Never had anything like it before. This is just a can of pure meh. Booze for booze sakes.

This goes for all Brewdog I've had recently. Something has definitely changed in their brewing in my view. I remember punk, 5am saint, dead pony club all being pretty nice and now they all taste of nothing. Don't get me started on their 'lost lager', seemingly an attempt to create a more characterless brew than coors.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 25, 2020, 08:52:51 AM
Didn't mind the lost lager at all. Would choose bottled Urquell over it and a couple of other supermarket pilsners but Asda's selection is the worst.

brewdog meet after the lockdown then (free beer here)

https://www.brewdog.com/uk/whenallofthisisover
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 25, 2020, 09:18:33 AM
It's competent in my view, certainly nowhere near Coors. It competes with and beats a few premium lagers. There's something downright funny about Lost Lager's existence though, from this arrogant seemingly fury fuelled outfit aggressively marketing heavily hopped ale in efforts to supplant macro lager producers to churning it out themselves, not to mention taking up supermarket shelf space with packs of cans.

Yes they raised the bar but now they seem content to lower it so long as they continue their growth.

They have done some nice beers over the years but the general standard, in my opinion, was only ever between two, three or four star, and even the four star stuff has gone downhill or disappeared entirely. Not a range worth getting fussed over when they're such an obnoxious set of cunts.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on April 25, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
Beer Hawk have had a restock.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on April 25, 2020, 01:24:29 PM
Can't speak for the keg punk but both the cans I've had in the last couple of years have been very poor indeed. It just doesn't taste alive any more, like a microwave meal. Worse actually, it tastes bad. That said, a lot of water has passed under the bridge since I first tried the drink in the early 2010s, so I can't discount personal taste development.

I'd be interested to taste-test the canned beer against the kegged beer they serve at their outlets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way supermarkets work and the quality of their equipment should enable them to serve a more consistent, tightly controlled product than in early years? If the product has got worse then it's going to be related to decisions or problems with scaling at the production end? My guess would be that they've had to change the recipe to meet the enormous production demands, to make it more accessible, or both. It's probably the hops that have changed as to meet contractual demand of brewing a beer on that scale requires a hop that's economical, secure to source and consistent in quality.

Yeah that’s my guess. I’m sure it’s still fine, I’m not knocking it or anything but I see it’s getting a lot of shrugs and/or dislike and my recollection was that it was alright. I’d get it again if I saw it and there wasn’t much else going.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 25, 2020, 01:49:24 PM
Should probably remark on the Polish stuff that's landed:

Kurna Chata (4.7% smoked stout) - ****
My partner had most of it and really enjoyed it. The low gravity works well with smoked stuff, as anyone who has touched Spezial or Schlenkerla would agree. The smoke was well infused with the beer so it had a satisfying, almost restorative character.

Nosferatu (6.7% Black IPA) - *** and a half
Emphasis on blackness rather than hops. Cascadian dark ale, Black IPA's synonym would more suitably sum it up. The bottom of the bottle was thick with sediment so once that got poured in the texture improved markedly. A good nice one.

Smietanka (5.6% Hefeweizen) - ***
Bright colour and really cloudy. Initially a trad thick, frothy, banana-clove wheat beer, but once the head disappeared I was surprised how much it changed, becoming a little sickly and insipid towards the end.

Rycerz (5.7% 'Jasne Pelne', full flavoured pale lager) - *** and a half
I tend to enjoy the stronger special lagers the Czechs do on occasion. This is how Polish lager should be really. Hearty, strong, made with local hops but also fresh and well balanced. I would take this over Tyskie/Zywiec any day. Golden, faintly honeyed, cerealy flavour propped up by some slightly different but not off-putting hops.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 25, 2020, 04:27:35 PM
Why do so many people on here have such disdain for pales and IPAs? Shoulders, you're not allowed to use the word 'gloop'.

I've been thinking more about what's caused me to be down on IPA's and some pales. It's more than the NEIPA revolution and relative obscurity of dry and bitter IPA beers, for which I can only really lay blame at the door of indies. Bgmnts and thugler mentioned the ubiquity of stupidly named and very average ipas and pales in the supermarket. It's true that it appears everyone (brewers) is jumping on the same boat and supermarkets are responding to this, but if we broke these beers into ownership or investment then we'd see a consolidation through conglomerates and investors. These investments and acquisitions have been won by independents with strong flagship IPA and Pale Ales and as we know, with the exception of a handful breweries who have managed successful partial (e.g founders) or full sell-outs (e.g Magic Rock) the endpoint of this is average or shit beer. I mentioned earlier that if you know what to look for then it's easy to disregard the rubbish, but i've realised that apart from a handful of exceptions, i've totally lost track of what is owned by who, and where it's (still) produced. Both of which are helpful indicators of the ideology behind the brewer and capacity to keep control of this.  I guess what i'm getting at is that it's become much more difficult to discern which beers are made by brewers who are fighting for their product to exist within the market and which beers are owned by conglomerates and investors looking to aggressively control the market. And IPAs and pales are at the center of that struggle. No surprise given their popularity, but it's fatiguing as a consumer.

This isn't to say the craft revolution didn't raise the bottom rung in a the macro market. I think it did.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 25, 2020, 05:06:14 PM
It definitely has raised the bar. More styles available nearly everywhere which sells beer isn't a bad thing. I think IPA and keg ale is relatively novel for the mainstream and its audience is young. It has also set a precedent that beer should have a clear flavour rather than simply ''the refreshing crisp taste of X Lager''. Naturally it will take a while until the audience develops a clearer idea of the "bottom end/high end" as there is with real ale and lagers.

However, it definitely muddies the waters when you see good breweries selling out and their new big boy macro-brew owners retaining the branding. It took a while for me to persuade people that the likes of Neck Oil, High Wire and Punk were nowhere near as good as they used to be.

There are also issues where small brewers goods are utterly overrated (holds breath - I'm going to say it: Northern Monk).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 25, 2020, 05:34:36 PM
I rate Northern Monk but don't really understand the god-like status they have in independent circles. Heathen is an excellent IPA, I'm lead to believe their core stout is/was excellent and eternal and the new world IPA are both very decent supermarket fare. But I've had a number of their small batch sours and IPA and little has caught my imagination. There's a lot though, and you probably are much more familiar with their dark beers, having frequented their bar.

I haven't had high wire in the last year or two. I remember when it was available on cask and keg and when well kept and fresh the cask beer knocked the keg into a cocked hat. One of those beers where its potential has been stunted in the pursuit of consistency. Same applies to Cannonball to a lesser degree, though that's one that needed to be dispensed on the cooler side
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on April 25, 2020, 05:56:22 PM
I've said this before, but the core Northern Monk range is one of my local go to beers, New World, Eternal, Faith are all decent. But the dicking about stuff is highly unnecessary.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 25, 2020, 06:01:49 PM
Quote
don't really understand the god-like status they have in independent circles

They have done some very enjoyable dark ales, and their patrons project beers have been good.

Their pales though, perhaps over familiarity on my part as I work very close by. They are like working your way through the menu at an average indian restaurant. After a while you just start noticing the same base sauce. Gloopy tropical fruit served ice cold. Not the sort of subtlety that's needed. Really can't stand Eternal, just unpleasant bitterness shoved in your face at freezer temperature. don't see the appeal. Faith and New World are OK, wouldn't go further than that.

Their concession to average joe drinkers, the helles lager Archie is an embarrassment to the name. How they still managed to make it taste like the pale ales I have no idea.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on April 25, 2020, 06:15:18 PM
Agree with the base sauce analogy, but against IPA 'session' supermarket options that are available in that bracket (brew dog, vocation, fourpure, beavertown etc) they often edge drinkability for me. Much like a British Indian Curry it's exactly the kind of IPA I'd choose if I'm feeling gluttonous and don't want to somehow dishonor something like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale by pounding it down to born slippy
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 26, 2020, 08:22:34 PM
Following on from the decent Hansla by Schlenkerla, there is another low alcohol range opening in Bamberg: Heinzlein

https://heinzlein.de/#top

So far offering a helles and a dunkelweizen. Some information about the heritage, which is also based on the idea that once of a day beer was the clean alternative to water, and typically low in alcohol.

Not even marked on Google yet but claims to be based at a 15th century brewery Hellerbrau.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on April 26, 2020, 11:22:00 PM
It just doesn't taste alive any more, like a microwave meal.

Perfect. The first ones I had were right at the beginning so probably 10 years ago but remember being blown away by the fact it has loads of nice fruity flavours that were both recognisable and blended together beautifully (and my palate is pretty shit - my I have drank plenty of ace beer in my time but my go to question is always - is this nice?) but the cans I have here are just booze. Nothing interesting about them at all. I can't remember if they still did good Punk after they moved to big production (I think they did but this is tripe).

Magic Rock is a good comparison maybe (though they are still way smaller than Brewdog). A can of supermarket Magic Rock is always fine. A 3 star beer at worst. But visiting the brewery in Huddersfield and that shit is glorious. I wonder how much brewers who have upscaled still judge their output by what they drink at source before it gets transported and stuck on shelves. Nothing beats drinking craft at source. Almasty in Tyneside, Bermondsey, Black Jack in Manchester. My fav craft drinking memories have always been at tap room openings.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 27, 2020, 08:47:38 AM
...still in preparation...ffs
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 27, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
...still in preparation...ffs

I believe pancreas' consignment from Speciaal Bierpakket arrived promptly as did mine. I can recommend them if speed is of the essence (also they have a good range and similarly priced, if not slightly cheaper)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 28, 2020, 07:28:10 PM
Some more Polish beer to update you on

Wrezel Pszeniczne Jasne (Wheat beer, 4.9%) - ***
Nice enough, fresh, but along the Polish end of wheatbeers, ie more light and lemony than the wheatier hefty Bavarian ones.

Komes Poczworny Bursztynowy - (Belgian Quadrupel, 10%) - ****
Remarkable they sell 10% beer by the half litre, bless those Poles. Given the strength this had quite a delicate aftertaste. Boozy in the mouth but slips down delicately. Caramel, werthers original type smoothness. The nearest Quad to this would probably be La Trappe. Would drink again (slowly)

Maryensztadt Polskie Ale - (Red ale? Pale Ale? Saison? Dunno mate. 5.5%) - *****
This was chosen more out of hope than expectation - and even then not much hope. Yet it has been my favourite one so far. Reddish, unfiltered with a thick but a floaty light body. Soft, fruity, herbally to an extent and with a vague farmhousey funk which with the hoppy finish adds up to a fantastic drink. The only beer I have had similar is Jovaru at Snekutis in Lithuania

Czyste Zloto - (Czech style Pilsner,, 5%) - **** and a half
The Poles have a big soft spot for Czech beers, and this one seems to be taking the 'if you can't beat them (they can't), join them' philosophy. Unfiltered, relatively strong at 5%, a 12 or 13 degree, golden colour, so alive and vibrant, every mouthful was a fuckin' pleasure. Brewed in Torun, one of the few spots I haven't been to in Poland but would like to.

Warminskie Rewolucje - (Helles? Pale lager anyway. 5.2%) - ** and a half
Wasn't expecting marvels with this one. It met my expectations anyway. Nothing too much wrong, it hits its marks. The hop choice, albeit local, is just not my thing. It ends up being both a little too verdant and bitter yet too sickly at the same time.

Pinta Hop Pokus - (Black IPA, 6.8%) - *** and a half
A very solid black IPA, an example I would give, it was that archetypal. Probably lacking something to really make it stand out but certainly fresh, enjoyable and successful.

AleBrowar - Lady Blanche - (Witbeer, 4.5%) - ***
A bit like the common mistakes with hefeweizen, this brewery have churned out a competent wit ale but not more than that. The best ones manage this melange of almost cloudy, spicy lightness, the average ones like this taste thinner, citric, and the head disappears quickly. It was so boilerplate I wouldn't be at all surprised if it just follows a stock online brewing recipe.

Zamkowy Raciborskie - (Dark Lager - 6.3%) - ***
This is the kind of beer Poland was probably more known for 20 years ago. Aside the strong pale lagers, the even stronger dark ones. Drinks not dissimilar to a doppelbock, except for a slight lagery tang. Liquorice, very very black, a faint herbal quality, like those Halls cough sweets. This was what I expected (and slightly feared).



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chollis on April 28, 2020, 07:56:17 PM
Yes, the Dutch have come through for me. Package delivered this morning:

1 x Augustijn blond
1 x Leffe tripel
1 x Bernardus Pater 6
1 x Augustijn Grand Cru
1 x Gulden Draak Quad
1 x Gentse Tripel
1 x Floreffe Blonde
1 x Ename Pater  *
1 x Corsendonk Agnus
1 x Petrus Tripel  *
1 x Paljas Blonde *
1 x Val-Dieu Brune *
1 x Rochefort 8
1 x Ter Dolen Tripel  *
1 x Tripel Kannunik
1 x Bernardus 12
1 x Tripel D'Anvers
1 x Tongerlo Tripel *
1 x Broeder Jacob Tripel *
1 x De Meester Tripel *
1 x Weihenstephaner Vitus
1 x Deugniet Strong Blonde *
1 x Straffe Hendrick Tripel
1 x Gageleer Gruit *
1 x Gerardus Blond *
1 x Bink Blond *
1 x Hertog Jan Grand Prestige *
1 x Gerardus Tripel *
1 x Moeder Overste Tripel *

(* I haven't tried these ones before)

Where'd you get that from? I'm a complete pleb trying to order this stuff but I think Tripel is my favourite so that looks worthy
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 28, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
https://www.speciaalbierpakket.nl/

You're in luck with these lads, they have a really big selection of tripels.

Site is relatively easy to navigate. Keep an eye out for the really cheap ones as they may be 250ml rather than 330ml bottles.

You pay shipping costs per shipment, which in their case is 30 bottles. It makes sense to fill that, ie, to order 30 and lower the cost per bottles, but that might not suit.

That little lot you quoted above cost around £72 which I can confirm from having drunk the fuckers was well worth it and cheaper than buying them in the UK (even where available).

I really strongly recommend Ter Dolen Tripel, Kannunik Tripel and Meester Tripel if you haven't had them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chollis on April 28, 2020, 08:23:20 PM
Lovely, cheers. Just ordered 30x bottles of different Tripels/Blondes/Saisons/Wits I've never had before. can't wait to get cunted on the good stuff
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on April 28, 2020, 08:44:27 PM
GRAVE RAPER vs. Bernardus Pater 6

Guangdong La Mer vs. Enema Pater

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chollis on April 28, 2020, 08:52:40 PM
Johnnie Walker Mushihimesama Black Label 200th Anniversary Edition: SOLD OUT
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 30, 2020, 09:24:58 PM
These Polish beers are running out fast (my partner keeps nabbing the various porters and stouts)

Jurajskie Pszeniczne Jasne (Wheat beer, 5.3%) - ***

A biscuity browner shade (not a dunkel though), a little like Sternweisse, Ayinger Urweisse or Schneider Original in terms of colour and part of their flavour. What's not there is the texture. You want that soft cloudy texture but it's a little too thin again which negatively affects the overall flavour. Still, a different effort by the standards of normal Polish wheatbeer which errs to the light and lemony side.

Pinta Czarna Dziura (Schwarzbier, 4.5%) - *** and a half

Highly drinkable at the strength, reaches a lovely balance of flavourful and neckable. Not a standout in terms of grabbing my attention but a fresh and totally competent effort.

Komes Potrojny Zloty (Belgian style Tripel, 9% - 500ml too! LOVE IT) - **** and a half

Their quadrupel was a solid effort with some distinct Belgian character, but this one absolutely nails every aspect of the style. It's the only Tripel outside of the low countries I have drunk which tasted like a tripel. Lovely balance of strong booze with zingy spice and a creamy fizzy texture in the mouth. Formidable enough that you couldn't just chug it but it remained as drinkable from first sip to last. My first half-litre of Tripel in one sitting, and really didn't deserve the daunting feeling I have before opening it.

Inne Beczki Pszeniczne Jasne (Wheat beer, 4.8%) - ***

Very light when pouring but some sediment near the bottom gradually fills the glass to put the hefe back in hefeweizen. You don't usually get the texture of flavour of Bavarian wheat beer from Polish efforts but this one achieves it, albeit only at the entry level of Erdinger. It was almost a clone of it. Still, satisfied, would bang again.

Goscieszewo Komtur (Schwarzbier, 6.5%) - ****

And tonight's!.....This is the strong side of Schwarzbier as opposed to the session effort above. It's sweeter obviously but they seem to have propped it up with a relatively zingy hop. Not quite Black IPA but not far off. It's really effective as you get the lovely sweet hit and the refreshing hoppy kick. Really liking it.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on April 30, 2020, 09:25:37 PM
Just seen that Northern Monk are doing a 'Sunday Roast' brown ale. In association with Aunt Bessie's Yorkshire puddings.

Gonna have to burn it down, this can't be allowed.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 30, 2020, 09:28:15 PM
Just seen that Northern Monk are doing a 'Sunday Roast' brown ale. In association with Aunt Bessie's Yorkshire puddings.

Gonna have to burn it down, this can't be allowed.

Cask or gtf
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on April 30, 2020, 10:57:16 PM
Just seen that Northern Monk are doing a 'Sunday Roast' brown ale. In association with Aunt Bessie's Yorkshire puddings.

Gonna have to burn it down, this can't be allowed.

Seriously? Fuck, that's worse than ice cream IPA surely.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 30, 2020, 11:01:29 PM
I suppose yorkshire pudding batter and that sort of faint savoury/stale aroma they have might work mixed with a brown ale. That's kind of repulsive to even type, though.

Anyway, they only need to make a small batch and for it to get in the papers, a few mugs on Untappd will rate it higher than the scores for some of the greatest beers that have ever been brewed, so job's a good un for them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sherringford Hovis on May 01, 2020, 01:31:14 AM
My next-door neighbour has just opened a brewery.

Me now:
(https://thumbsnap.com/s/vvQfcPPw.png?src=ts20200501)

Me by about October:
(http://fastshow.20m.com/images/jesse.jpg)

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 01, 2020, 09:41:19 AM
Belgianinabox: Order in preparation

a month nearly now
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 01, 2020, 11:12:24 AM
Belgianinabox: Order in preparation

a month nearly now

I guess it is past the point where you can revoke your order now.

Interesting the differences between companies in respect of their service levels.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 01, 2020, 11:13:01 AM
Was it you who recommended this site?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on May 01, 2020, 11:13:30 AM
Belgianinabox: Order in preparation

a month nearly now

Mine is arriving TODAY

sorry.

We didn't go for anything too recherché though.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on May 01, 2020, 11:14:21 AM
BiaB were fine a few weeks ago, so maybe restocking is the problem.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 01, 2020, 11:15:16 AM
Mine is arriving TODAY

sorry.

We didn't go for anything too recherché though.

just got a message

"Pardon, we have accidentally sent your order to Cuellar, we will endeavour to get you a replacement by 2021"
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on May 01, 2020, 11:16:47 AM
Sorry I don't believe it would be in my interests to forward the consignment on to you.

Please respect my privacy at this time.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 01, 2020, 11:18:48 AM
Was it you who recommended this site?

I think it is Cuellar who raves about it. Haven't used them personally as I don't find them the most cost effective. The covid issues grant them a bit of latitude but not a month.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on May 01, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
This is the first time I've used them! I was just excited about their range I think.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 01, 2020, 11:43:44 AM
Way to go, Bierstein.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chollis on May 01, 2020, 11:48:50 AM
Cuellar's wearing a fucking wire!

The Dutch have come flying out the blocks, straight up told me it was gonna be less than 7 days from winkelwagen to doorstep. Very ambitious. But can it be done? Find out on Monday!

(https://i.imgur.com/rkDU0Mw.png)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 01, 2020, 12:10:47 PM
My zending was bezorged within that time frame and I'm pretty confident yours will be.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 01, 2020, 12:50:35 PM
Lockdown for me started with the Belgian order, nearly through the Polish order now - thanks to my partner nicking half of it - so as it's pay day I thought I would go German next time and go straight for the good stuff: Franconian vollbier, kellerbier, zwickl, zoigl.

It will end up a bit more expensive too, working out about £3.25 a bottle. However, I would be looking at that cost at a bottle shop in England anyway, these days.

https://www.hier-gibts-bier.de/en/ - They seem to have the best offering of well reputed small breweries from Franconia and the Upper Palatinate which specialise in beer that's difficult to get elsewhere in Germany, let alone England. You can buy either 1, 6 or 20 bottles of each. I went for 10 different beers of 6 each, so it's going to last at least a month.

Probably the only occasion I will splash out on something like this seeing as it's lockdown and I'm saving money hand over fist anyway vs the pub. There's also the looming spectre of Britain leaving the customs union which will make shipments from the EU more or less unaffordable.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 01, 2020, 01:11:42 PM
A craft beer shop near me reopened selling beers in bottles and cans. Fuck me, lot of work goes into the cans and bottles but the beer all tastes a bit shit. This is largely why I swerve beer, although I have really really enjoyed the Belgian/Trappist stuff I've bought recently. Seems fucking bonkers though to get some session IPA made in Lancaster in a neon can for 4 quid. Same with a lot of bottles local ales and whatever. Basically tastes like water to me. Harmless but it's like the soundcloud of beer or something. Just aeons and aeons of nothing. Why even bother?

On the other hand, I have quite enjoyed some of the stouts albeit every single one is coffee, chocolate or hazelnut or oats or something. Turns out they're nice, though. Maybe I just don't like IPA/pale any more.

Another thing is some of them seemed almost flat. Is that normal? I just had a drink of the beer and poured it down the sink. Life's too short.

Can anyone recommend me some worthwhile English beers/ales which might compare to the depth of flavour of the Belgian top boys? Please.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 01, 2020, 01:23:44 PM
Brew by Numbers often have a range of interesting stuff in bottle shops but it's expensive so I haven't really explored much. My old local Torrside Brewery in New Mills attempted a number of interesting styles with some pretty good results. For IPA tend to grab Kernel when I see them. They just know how to make a decent IPA and keep prices acceptable

Example of Torrside range.

https://www.eebriatrade.com/products/beer/torrside-brewing/19264-rauchwine

Not sure where you can buy bottles right now
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 01, 2020, 01:24:02 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/ScnN3fb/Screenshot-2020-05-01-at-13-23-33.png) (https://ibb.co/FXw6DH2)

pandemic travels faster than Belgian beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 01, 2020, 01:44:43 PM
Quote
Can anyone recommend me some worthwhile English beers/ales which might compare to the depth of flavour of the Belgian top boys? Please.

Tynt Meadow immediately springs to mind. England now has a Trappist commercial beer producer and these lads from Leicestershire have made a strong dark ale that takes cues from English and Belgian ales. It is really lovely.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 01, 2020, 02:40:55 PM
Brew by Numbers... Kernel...

Cheers, Kernel had come up in my searches so I'll give them a go. Nice one bruv.

It does seem very difficult to separate the wheat from the acres of chaff, though. I guess that's the same with anything and probably part of the fun. I just don't much like the hit rate with beer, because there's so so much out there. On the other hand, pretty cheap and easy to try a dozen different things in one order, vs wine or whisky spending hundreds for the same range. Easier to experiment and take a punt. Looking forward to trying this 'Vietnamese Hazelnut Coffee Stout' this evening (oh, just Googled and this is a substyle of its own, it seems, with many producers!). Defo enjoying the stout end of the craft scene more than the IPA for now.

Tynt Meadow

Excellent! Thanks, I'll also get onto that. Sounds right up my current street.

Thanks, gents.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 01, 2020, 03:35:31 PM
This one is actually worth a mention because I really enjoyed it, and especially as a supermarket pick up.

Magic Rock Dark Arts - Hazelnut Stout

It's exactly as it sounds, a dark, nutty stout with earthy aromas, but with just enough Fruit 'n' Nut sweetness and creaminess to lighten it up. It's almost got a rummy depth to the sweeter, fruitier notes. You can't avoid that dusty, nutty addictive note, though. It's in the body and on the nose and palate. Really drying aftertaste, makes you want to have that next sip to lift it with the creamy sweetness. The only thing I would say is that it seems a bit gimmicky, rather than tasting like beer, but that might be my ignorance of the style.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 01, 2020, 04:22:02 PM
Magic Rock's Common Grounds is a very good coffee Porter.  I haven't had it in a year or so but every time I've had it before then it has stood up to the test of time. Gotta find it on cask of course for a real treat. Not sure how the takeover has affected cask production...
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 01, 2020, 05:37:41 PM
Cheers, I'll keep an eye out for that one, too.

I'm currently sipping my way through this:

(https://i.ibb.co/HVLjGrW/20200501-172655.jpg)

I thought it was a stout but actually a porter. I don't know the style at all, to be honest. I've had a few but always seemed a bit fruitier from memory, like plum porter type of thing. This is dense as fuck. Almost no carbonation. Basically pour a double espresso into a pint of Speccy Brew.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 01, 2020, 06:42:52 PM
Absolute muck, probably full of condensed milk. Sounds delicious. Good to see Red Willow still going. They made some good cask stuff going back to early/mid 2010s

Full house of Waitrose finest here with Urquell, Geuze Boon, Erdinger Picantus and Westmalle double for under a tenner. In that order. 
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 01, 2020, 06:50:20 PM
Redwillow Smokeless, a smoked porter with chipotle was an instant hit with my partner when she was starting to get into beers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: wasp_f15ting on May 01, 2020, 06:52:17 PM
If any of you work for the NHS 50% at ABC and 25% off at CloudWater

(https://i.imgur.com/bZHUYe5.jpg)
This reminds me of one of my fave beers Paulaner - so refreshing..


This is nice and fruity, and the only beer the wife is enjoying
(https://i.imgur.com/MZMiFWL.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 01, 2020, 07:02:56 PM
That's Alphabet Brewing. Thanks for the NHS heads up though! A gose and a Brett sour in stock. Marvellous!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 01, 2020, 07:20:15 PM
https://www.alphabetbrewing.co.uk/specials

Just posting this so bgmnts can work himself into a stupor.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 01, 2020, 08:18:59 PM
Good Lord.

Coldest brewery tour I've ever been on. Railway arches, MCR, deep winter. Outdoor bar. Pints of Flat White all round before anyone could stop chattering to speak. Fresh days those, when hundreds of breweries were springing up and 'tap rooms' were very, very DIY and still just outlets for the brewery to advertise their wares and ply enthusiastic visitors with cost price booze
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 02, 2020, 09:23:35 AM
I didn't experience any local startups being that generous cost wise, but there are few bargains of any sort around Leeds.

Partner and I did another sour blending session last night

Sours:
Timmermans Oude Gueuze
Boon Geuze
Bacchus Kriek

Mixers:
Warminski Baltic Porter
Rodenbach classic
Manns Brown Ale

The porter and kriek worked fantastically, as you might expect.

Making the Bacchus more sour with a bit of Gueuze brought an extra tart complexity to it.

Adding Gueuze to Rodenbach classic turned it into the Grand Cru, perhaps with less oakiness but still very good.

The broon ale was for a laugh. Christ that stuff is sweet and mild on its own (2.8%, and I hear it is popular for use in home cooking), but mixed with Gueuze you get a not dissimilar flavour to Oud Bruin, just with an English earthiness. It does kind of work.

Finally the weirdest. Baltic Porter and Gueuze. Strong heavily dark and sour... Worked better than the Doppelbock sour we blended a month ago.




Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: sardines on May 02, 2020, 05:13:52 PM
Thanks, interesting read. Where are you based, approximately? I have had a couple of Witkap Stimulo and I think their range is fairly good. That one took another go to really get the point of it.

Sorry lost track of this
Between Brussels and Antwerp. A stones throw from Het Anker/Carolus brewery.
Speaking of which currently drinking a Carolus Tripel which, and I say this with a lot of bias due to proximity, is a classic of the genre.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 02, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
Sorry lost track of this
Between Brussels and Antwerp. A stones throw from Het Anker/Carolus brewery.
Speaking of which currently drinking a Carolus Tripel which, and I say this with a lot of bias due to proximity, is a classic of the genre.

Ah, Mechelen! I was there during the Indian summer last October. Beautiful place. Honestly, some of the centre is outstanding and I noticed you can get around without pushing past tourists and getting planted onto the cobbles by idiot tour groups and cyclists. Really cheap on a weekend train ticket from Brussels also.

I enjoyed Hannekeef Cafe (which is featured in Regula Ysewijn's 'Belgian Cafe Culture') and the neighbourhood volkscafe .com/2019/10/28/tilt-mechelen/]Tilt (https://[SPAM - REMOVED) where Rozeke Raymaekers looks after the bar in her late 80s, though I now wish I'd ordered the standard lager rather than a bottle of Hapkin.

Sadly as I was only there for a morning wander and lunch, I didn't have time to visit the Het Anker brewery, which I regret, but time was tight and was more interested in the bar scene (which isn't amazing in Mechelen, so it seems).

Carolus was one of the first I tried of the style, probably back in 2013ish. There was a long day on the beers and it didn't sit well at the end of the night. I have returned since then and agree it is a very nice beer.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blinder Data on May 04, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
https://www.alphabetbrewing.co.uk/specials

Just posting this so bgmnts can work himself into a stupor.

Just looking at their website - why do independent/smaller breweries release so many beers?

This is why I tend to be quite conservative and stick to breweries who have settled on a handful of beer styles that they do well. The Trappists lads who have barely made any changes in decades have got it right - I can remember their beers and which ones I like.

I suppose breweries need to change it up for marketing purposes but can't some of these trendy one-off collab wankers just calm it down a bit...?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 04, 2020, 12:41:35 PM
Good reasons are:

The brewers are (potentially) experimental artists bestowing their innovative fine works on the world and (potentially) learning their trade as they go along. In 20 years or so we might find some of these people are behind long term successes.

The bad are:

- A small batch creates exclusivety which alone drives demand. Distributors, Bars, bottleshops and their customers will try stuff on the off chance its really good and to avoid missing out. This inevitably means all end up paying a premium that isn't perhaps deserved. It also allows a brewer to avoid being 'found out' as moribund or superfluous for longer. Shifting terrain and refusal to brew a straight up style leaves the taster with less to compare the beer with. Collabs also dramatically increase brand recognition and likelihood of a buy.

- Hyperinformation and novelty is the in thing. A beer can't be a stout. It must be a maple pecan pie stout. Beer drinkers who prefer beers that remind them of other things and want to know the ins and outs of why, rather than just being able to open a bottle and savour the flavour. Belgian brews, real ale, Keller bier and similar beer culture which is about product and brand name more than an anatomical dissection of the contents of the beer scares scenesters and some beer monster types, for some reason. At a guess, they project a confidence, versus the insecure arrogance of many craft brewers which can be gleaned from inspecting their cans, bottles and miscellaneous marketing. I think some people look at, say, Barnsley Bitter, and think it's some troglodyte brew for simpletons rather than a wonderful rich, complex highly drinkable beer that's been around for donkeys because multiple generations of people think it tastes nice. I bet you any money you could con a few people into liking beers they think they hate by rebadging them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 04, 2020, 01:20:34 PM
Alphabet do have a core range. It has changed since I first encountered them but it does contain beers from about 2-7 years old, so they're by no means the least consistent. Kernel are one of my favourites and it's next to impossible to buy anything twice apart from a couple of core beers, though a lot of their beers seem to be more subtle tweaks than audacious, headline grabbing brews
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on May 04, 2020, 01:35:03 PM
I'm trying to put in a Roosters order and their website is soooooo slow, could you all just keep off it for a bit? Thanks.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 04, 2020, 01:41:24 PM
Is 'real ale' an actual thing? I thought it was just a catch-all like craft beer. I also thought pale ale was generally the same as IPA. I'm wrong, aren't I?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 04, 2020, 01:41:59 PM
Feel like pure shit just wanna go to GOBLINS BAR
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Viero_Berlotti on May 04, 2020, 01:58:48 PM
Morrison's have started stocking Kwak.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 04, 2020, 03:16:47 PM
Yep, they have indeed.

BTW, I wasn't aiming that tirade at Alphabet specifically and I think Kernel are an example that do have a distinct core range, regardless of whether it's my thing or not.

Quote
Is 'real ale' an actual thing? I thought it was just a catch-all like craft beer. I also thought pale ale was generally the same as IPA. I'm wrong, aren't

Real ale generally refers to handpulled cask ale, if you take the CAMRA mission statement, so there is a sizeable overlap with the output of new brewers, but with real ale being a fairly worn out notion which includes unfashionable styles around best bitter, it does have fuddy connotations versus its more fashionable sounding and arguably much more meaningless 'craft beer', which is would, in a highly generalised way, say refers to keg ale of various kinds.

The overlap certainly includes IPA and pale ales. It is just more general that an old fashioned British cask pale ale from an established family brewery will be called real ale and one brewed with US hops, unfined and 6%+ on keg would be called a craft beer.

http://allaboutbeer.com/article/mythbusting-the-ipa/ Here is a 'I wish I hadn't asked' level of deconstruction covering the origins of pale ale and the term IPA.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 04, 2020, 05:59:28 PM
Gonna be out of beer by tonight save for a Cantillon Gueuze from last October which I ain't touching.

The Franconia Kellerbiers aren't on their way just yet, curses, so back to the auld shops tomorrow. Might actually get a Kwak, even though it is not my favourite.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 04, 2020, 06:24:30 PM
I'm waiting on my Tynt Meadow and pals and just caning the beaming red buttocks off the Duvel and Leffe stocks in my Sainsbury's Local. Just got some Innis and Gunn red ale finished in a rum cask. Proper cunt tier but I remember having some pleasant I&G even if it's a bit gimmicky tasting.

Just want to get some Trappist shit again though man, totally cunts everything else for me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 04, 2020, 08:14:48 PM
Yep, they have indeed.

BTW, I wasn't aiming that tirade at Alphabet specifically and I think Kernel are an example that do have a distinct core range, regardless of whether it's my thing or not.

Yup, wasn't taken as such. Was just to balance it being pointed out that they have a long list of one-offs. Probably not such a long list either, given they must have been around for best part of a decade. 

Quote
Real ale generally refers to handpulled cask ale, if you take the CAMRA mission statement, so there is a sizeable overlap with the output of new brewers, but with real ale being a fairly worn out notion which includes unfashionable styles around best bitter, it does have fuddy connotations versus its more fashionable sounding and arguably much more meaningless 'craft beer', which is would, in a highly generalised way, say refers to keg ale of various kinds.

Just to add that CAMRA now (as of the last time I checked in on them a couple of years back) includes cask conditioned, bottle conditioned and key-keg as 'Real Ale'. Worth pointing out for anyone unaware of this that Real Ale is a slogan invented by CAMRA. It means whatever they want it to mean and they've already changed their minds a few times.

CAMRA really have fucked it (though i'm a couple of years out of touch with this opinion). Last time I was following the whole Craft/Real Ale thing the crux of what was happening was that CAMRA were flourishing in terms of membership. Can't be bad news, right. Speculating about why this was, despite the bitter dispute between heads in craft and real ale, I am almost certain that CAMRA benefitted from the craft-market driven threefold explosion in breweries 2010-2018 and the shift in style of establishments. A net decline in pubs/bars continued, but for every two traditional locals that closed, a micropub that stocks 4-6 well-kept real ales alongside the craft beer had sprung up. And these were places frequented by people getting into beers. I suspect those craft drinkers who were willing to pay more for their beer inadvertantly gave Real Ale a shot in the arm, via CAMRA. Unfortunately, CAMRA at its heart is so old fashioned and riddled with inertia that despite that shot in the arm and their footsoldiers dragging them kicking and screaming into 21st century, they have failed to recognise the single biggest gain to both them and to craft beer, which was to make a strong allegiance. 'Real Ale' is dying on its arse, despite being dragged up by the bootstraps. They are failing in their original mission and they are not capitalising on the big opportunities to modernise.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 05, 2020, 05:34:15 PM
Back on my bullshit

(https://i.ibb.co/HYWptxZ/20200505-172642.jpg)

Quite a few here I've not tried. Looking forward to trying the Tynt Meadow recommended by Shouldsy boy. Barnardo is probably my favourite brewer based on the different stuff I've had so far but never tried the Pater nor Prior, so looking forward to them. Leffe Brune got a warm write up again by Shouldsy boy they other week so give that a go. Also got a couple of Rochefort 8 just to compare with the 10. Interested in the St Feuillen Saison because I reckon I might like saison based on a few I've head. Might be a shit example but looking forward to giving it a go.

Chimay Blue is pure ultimate ol' timey Wuhan nostalgia Café Brussels tier payday foot massage hardwank theorem. Cannot wait.

I've really enjoyed this thread and genuinely learning a lot and lovin it. Beer literally never be the same again for me. I mean it.

LGC

(let's get cunted)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chollis on May 05, 2020, 05:52:57 PM
Tripel Fuckdown arrived

(https://i.imgur.com/ljKQ3h5.jpg)

LGC
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 05, 2020, 05:59:14 PM
Allez, beast.

Allez, Bungle.

FUCKDOWN, Belge.

LGC

(Hey, we got the same St Feuillen Saison! Karmeliet Tripel is another former life fave, too. Enjoy!)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 05, 2020, 06:20:29 PM
Tripel Fuckdown arrived

(https://i.imgur.com/ljKQ3h5.jpg)

LGC

fucking hell

#lgc
#rrr
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 05, 2020, 06:29:22 PM
That looks awesome. I would neck that Tripel Kannunik.

Interested to read which ones r ur fayvz
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on May 05, 2020, 06:36:26 PM
Yeah ditto, always on the lookout for a good tripel.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 05, 2020, 06:36:43 PM
Quote
CAMRA really have fucked it (though i'm a couple of years out of touch with this opinion). Last time I was following the whole Craft/Real Ale thing the crux of what was happening was that CAMRA were flourishing in terms of membership. Can't be bad news, right. Speculating about why this was, despite the bitter dispute between heads in craft and real ale, I am almost certain that CAMRA benefitted from the craft-market driven threefold explosion in breweries 2010-2018 and the shift in style of establishments. A net decline in pubs/bars continued, but for every two traditional locals that closed, a micropub that stocks 4-6 well-kept real ales alongside the craft beer had sprung up. And these were places frequented by people getting into beers. I suspect those craft drinkers who were willing to pay more for their beer inadvertantly gave Real Ale a shot in the arm, via CAMRA. Unfortunately, CAMRA at its heart is so old fashioned and riddled with inertia that despite that shot in the arm and their footsoldiers dragging them kicking and screaming into 21st century, they have failed to recognise the single biggest gain to both them and to craft beer, which was to make a strong allegiance. 'Real Ale' is dying on its arse, despite being dragged up by the bootstraps. They are failing in their original mission and they are not capitalising on the big opportunities to modernise.

Just to state I agree with you regarding CAMRA's failure to react positively to craft beer. Whether their upper echelons or even their lay members despite craft beer's marketing, or keg ale, or whatever, there isn't any doubt that small brewers in England should be allies with CAMRA not enemies.

I don't personally see 'real ale' (if what's meant by that is cask ale of more traditional styles) dying out but then I am usually around Sheffield/Leeds/York/Hull with a strong tradition, with the occasional trips to Newcastle and London where it isn't difficult to find quality beer. It's thriving if anything. I probably am a little more worried longer term about the survival of cask given it relies on a high turnover and now has to compete with lager AND lots of keg ale, but it was resurrected before and its time may come again.


Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 05, 2020, 07:40:54 PM
What we see appears to be thriving because so many newer places have embraced real ale and craft beer. But the stats were bad for real ale (up until 2018 ish), a persistent decline. So I would assume that it is the larger, independent brewers of real ale that stock the family and sports pubs that have seen demand drop. Real Ale fans have been pretty loyal haven't they so my guess it that brewers and CAMRA have dropped the ball with the new generation of drinkers, who have been siphoned off by macros and by successful craft independents like Brewdog and buyouts like Camden and  Beavertown, both of which are astonishingly popular with lads and ladettes. All total speculation from me and based only on stats I read a couple of years ago
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 05, 2020, 07:47:03 PM
The whole debate on excluding keg ale from CAMRA's ongoing missions had a really awkward parallel with Labour Party circa 2016.

An influx of excited, activated members and the reaction of the long term fixtures in the hierarchy of "Oh. These people are here. No, no thanks. Oh, well actually OK - we will take your money, don't worry about trying to change anything though".
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 05, 2020, 08:04:46 PM
And here's their labour moment. Months later I joined the Leeds Uni 'Real Ale' society. At that time there was a fair mix of real ale enthusiasts and people excited by rumblings of change as the first beers aping American IPA's gained traction. This I guess was exactly when CAMRA needed to recognise the value in cementing allegiances with those gaining momentum. Instead at best they saw it as something that would water down their message and at worst getting into bed with the enemy.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/12/real-ale-beer-sales-rise
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 05, 2020, 08:11:44 PM
Quote
Iain Loe, a spokesman for Camra, said drinkers were returning to real ale because of its moderate strength – often under 4% – compared with stronger lagers that are usually above 5%. "Real ale is a naturally refreshing drink; people are realising it is healthier than other types of alcohol," Loe said.

Haha. How myopic, even for 2010.

No, I'm not even going to get into how wrong that all is.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 05, 2020, 08:37:43 PM
And that was bludgeoned home by Thornbridge winning numerous awards for Jaipur in keg and cask in the next year or two. I don't have a frame of reference for the presence of breweries like Thornbridge, Brewdog and Meantime pre-2011 so it's hard to know just how blind CAMRA were at the time to brewers who had found a new niche and one that was prepared to pay a quid over what CAMRA members would accept at the pump.

I'm not sure exactly how CAMRA discounts work. When I was a member it seemed to me to be something of an own goal. When I drunk in the peaks the old guys would come in and ask for their CAMRA discount, without fail. Presumably it's a gimmick intended to attract new members, but if you're already a member and you're already converted then maybe just pay the paltry price of a real ale pint. Something else they got wrong in that interview, thinking that the next generation of niche drinkers would be interested in penny-pinching . Can't afford a fucking house thanks guys so I'll sure as hell not scrimp on something I can enjoy
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 05, 2020, 08:42:10 PM
Tynt Meadow (B-/C/C-)

An interesting attempt at the Trappist style. It's very clovey and liquoricey, 'erbal. It really really reminds me of a nice version of the the disgusting 'jing jiu' 'health wine' tonic you can get in China, a foul concoction that's meant to give you a bone on for days and sort out your organs cunted up by gutter oil. As it opened up, it got a bit sweeter and maltier and almost datey, kind of a burnt treacley bittersweet note but always coming back to 'erbal. Not much of a head on it at all, no lacing fwiw, seemed only a touch off flat. I like a bit more carbonation than this, I think it would have livened up the dark flavours a touch. Interesting, though, and very deep, just not particularly to my taste.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 05, 2020, 09:47:07 PM
Interesting to read about the flatness. I never really noticed that. Some dark beers just get away with it, I suppose. I would recommend giving it another go some time though. Might not be the same for you, but I like it more now than I did my first one.

Quote
I'm not sure exactly how CAMRA discounts work. When I was a member it seemed to me to be something of an own goal. When I drunk in the peaks the old guys would come in and ask for their CAMRA discount, without fail. Presumably it's a gimmick intended to attract new members, but if you're already a member and you're already converted then maybe just pay the paltry price of a real ale pint. Something else they got wrong in that interview, thinking that the next generation of niche drinkers would be interested in penny-pinching . Can't afford a fucking house thanks guys so I'll sure as hell not scrimp on something I can enjoy

I notice from the people I follow on my bar guide twitter account this gripe comes up a lot! CAMRA vouchers at Wetherspoons etc, is all seen to be moving real ale further away from tempting a new audience to clinging on to an aging (and dying) penny pinching fuddy duddy one. The most perverse is that the vouchers are handed out to middle aged middle class people who don't need them, meanwhile many young people who are on the fringes of debt problems would probably even refuse them if you gave them some, on account of their association with miserliness.

They also claim that CAMRA's schemes stop real ale being the 'premium product' it ought to be (even Roger Protz uses this term to refer to real ale). I don't agree with that though. I think handpulled cask ale should be, and to an extent is a product for the masses, and even then only refers to a method of storage and delivery. Cask ale comes in a lot of guises these days. Cask ale is primarily about volume, mass drinking and mass consumption, none of which is a problem in my eyes or a necessary reducer of quality. Making it 'premium' isn't going to happen because it will just go off. So while I think CAMRA continually shoot themselves in the foot and are dangerously too close to Tim Martin's fuckup operations, the core idea it is set up to preserve, hand pulled/gravity poured ale is a noble pursuit. It's an utter quirk and if we don't look after it in the UK then it will become so obscure as to be virtually extinct.





Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 05, 2020, 10:35:04 PM
Interesting to read about the flatness. I never really noticed that. Some dark beers just get away with it, I suppose. I would recommend giving it another go some time though. Might not be the same for you, but I like it more now than I did my first one.

I got a few so I'll definitely be keen to go back and see how I find it. I was definitely expecting something more like a slightly crap Barnardo 12 but it's much more distinctive than that. I think it just took me a good half hour to get to what it is. The 'jing jiu' medicinal clovey note was initially pretty off-putting, as well, because that's a taste I associate with being existentially hungover and nauseated to the point of despair. Once the date and treacle started coming through, it was much more appealing. Definitely a good rec even if it's not necessarily a regular buy for me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 05, 2020, 10:40:00 PM
It's definitely got a noticeably English character along with the clear Belgian similarities. The treacley/date notes are typical of English strong special ales, but then it's got a level of refinement and smoothness they don't have and most strong dark Belgian ales do have. There are lots of rich dark ales but I don't think there are too many beers quite like it.

Imagine if it was craft brewed and called Hey I Just Date Chew and This Is Treacley and had a skeleton drowning in a sea of piss on the can. I'd want to absolutely condemn it to hell.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 06, 2020, 09:22:49 AM
If any of you work for the NHS 50% at ABC and 25% off at CloudWater
Cheers for this. The Cloudwater one also extends to key workers so I've told my teacher wife she now likes beer and got a box on its way. Helles, Light Lager, and the Pale Ale. You don't get the discount on the guest beers but I also ordered a can from Boundary who have some of the worst craft beer names I've ever seen. This one is a dark lager called Your Joke Is Factually Incorrect. Can't get enough dark lager though.

I want to train my tastebuds to like sour beer. Maybe I've just never had a good one but it invariably tastes strongly of acid reflux.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 06, 2020, 10:18:02 AM
Just looked on the Cloudwater site and saw this...

Quote
Chinook was introduced to the world in 1985, the same year that Phil Collins debuted one of his finest drum intros into an incredible song that topped out at No 1.

*does wanker sign*

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 06, 2020, 10:20:16 AM
It's definitely got a noticeably English character along with the clear Belgian similarities. The treacley/date notes are typical of English strong special ales, but then it's got a level of refinement and smoothness they don't have and most strong dark Belgian ales do have. There are lots of rich dark ales but I don't think there are too many beers quite like it.

Yeah, I agree with all this. A genuinely unusual beer considering how familiar its touchstones are to me. And yep, I can actually imagine that can, but I laughed.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on May 06, 2020, 10:20:58 AM
Tynt Meadow (B-/C/C-)

An interesting attempt at the Trappist style. It's very clovey and liquoricey, 'erbal. It really really reminds me of a nice version of the the disgusting 'jing jiu' 'health wine' tonic you can get in China, a foul concoction that's meant to give you a bone on for days and sort out your organs cunted up by gutter oil. As it opened up, it got a bit sweeter and maltier and almost datey, kind of a burnt treacley bittersweet note but always coming back to 'erbal. Not much of a head on it at all, no lacing fwiw, seemed only a touch off flat. I like a bit more carbonation than this, I think it would have livened up the dark flavours a touch. Interesting, though, and very deep, just not particularly to my taste.

Yeah ditto. Was very interested in it but it didn't really do much for me when I actually tried it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 06, 2020, 10:29:27 AM
Yeah, I am curious what a second and third bottle will bring, though.

OK, another noob question. Seems like all the beer review sites are like 95% Yank beers in the top 100. Is that just availability and website demographics plus usual Yank-centric pig ignorance or are the cunners actually making some drinkable piss? I just assume the toothless hicks and handlebar hipster cunts can kill themselves for what their piss is worth, but I'm open minded to their cretinous brews if they're any good.

Any recommendations for top tier Yankee piss?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 06, 2020, 11:42:07 AM
Bud Light. Great drop, eminently crushable.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 06, 2020, 01:39:24 PM
Yeah, I am curious what a second and third bottle will bring, though.

OK, another noob question. Seems like all the beer review sites are like 95% Yank beers in the top 100. Is that just availability and website demographics plus usual Yank-centric pig ignorance or are the cunners actually making some drinkable piss? I just assume the toothless hicks and handlebar hipster cunts can kill themselves for what their piss is worth, but I'm open minded to their cretinous brews if they're any good.

Any recommendations for top tier Yankee piss?

Think it's mainly brute force. Not sure of the equation, but the fewer ratings a beer has the more the rating is weighted  towards the most moderate end of the range. As the beer is reviewed more and more it gets closer to the mean. So a lesser known beer held in the same regard as a well known beer will in theory score lower. Doesn't work that way of course because you have availability driving scores in weird ways. With rare beers getting high ratings because of exclusivity but also very average beers getting high ratings simply because that's what is exported to large foreign markets.

I try to not pay much attention to ratebeer. I think tt can be helpful for weeding out bad beers as more often than not when I've had one the score has reflected that. But the truly great beers are lost in a sea of average beers that happen to be a trendy style or location
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 06, 2020, 02:45:44 PM
Yeah, I am curious what a second and third bottle will bring, though.

OK, another noob question. Seems like all the beer review sites are like 95% Yank beers in the top 100. Is that just availability and website demographics plus usual Yank-centric pig ignorance or are the cunners actually making some drinkable piss? I just assume the toothless hicks and handlebar hipster cunts can kill themselves for what their piss is worth, but I'm open minded to their cretinous brews if they're any good.

Any recommendations for top tier Yankee piss?

Any non-IPA style by Stones brewery is a safe bet, their stouts are excellent. West coast IPAs by Dogfish head are world class. Not sure what else you’d see over there, those are pretty big craft breweries so you’d probably see a few of their beers floating about. I like the Anchor steam ales as well.

The selection in Canada is weirdly feudal due to our stupid laws so we don’t get a lot of American beer up here. It is basically all made in-province or from large macro breweries, so I bet US-based posters would have a better idea than me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 06, 2020, 04:39:39 PM
Pretty sure dogfishhead were subject to a buyout in the last year or two.

Lost Abbey makes some great beers but it would not be cheap and many would question why buy Belgian style beers from the US. They are great though. And their sister brewery Port Brewing is fantastic for heavily hopped beer  and my go-to treat for refreshing, west-coast IPA.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 06, 2020, 06:11:10 PM
I only occasionally refer to Ratebeer but Untappd has a similar problem. Certain beer styles score significantly higher than others, though for a number of reasons which make the scoring system less useful than it ought to be.

Why does a run of the mill US pale ale (I'm choosing as this example Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, 3.64) score significantly higher than one of the best lagers of its style (Pilsner Urquell 3.35)?

It's likely the following is behind it:

- Untappd and its membership is US centric, craft beer/craft scene centric (so disproportionately used by hop heads, pales, porters and sours fans who visit bottleshops and craft beer bars). So it isn't just comparing apples with oranges. Fewer people using Untappd rate lager versus the global population.
- Pilsner Urquell reaches a truly mass audience unlike Sierra Nevada (which is still big but nowhere near PU), who use different parameters when rating a beer.
- Consistency. Draft Pilsner Urquell is frequently not looked after very well, and only until recently the cans and bottled stuff tasted noticeably worse than the best tapped stuff. US pale ale has the advantage of being consistent on keg/can/bottle.
- It's skewed by fanboys. Any fashionable brewery gets a boost. Compare the ratings of poor/bang average UK craft brewery attempts at lager or English bitter, then compare with the equivalents from unfashionable breweries. To use a particularly perverse example, Camden Pils (a beer surely not even Camden staff think is anything special, scores 0.01 higher than Uneticke 12, which is the pilsner people in Prague drink if they can get hold of it anywhere and probably among the best lagers I've had.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 06, 2020, 07:51:57 PM
Thanks for all the replies here re: Yank piss, some of which is what I'd suspected and much of which is illuminating. I'll definitely check some of the Stone stuff out, seems available and very good.

This evening, I've had the St Bernardus 6 Pater for the first time and it was a little bit...forgettable, unfortunately. Nothing really to report. Obviously it's at the bottom end of the sliding scale but doesn't compare to the Wit, the Tripel or the 12. I wouldn't get it again. I've got a Prior 8 for another evening, heard that's a step up.

Now sipping on another Tynt Meadow and while I'm still not desperately enthusiastic about it, it is something I'd recommend to anyone. I can well imagine it being somebody's absolute favourite because it's so distinctive. I respect that. It's just got such an oddly medicinal floor, almost like the most savoury, tangy note of a black olive. The dark fruit which first springs off that is very moreish but there's not quite enough of it for me, it's very quickly into the burnt notes of treacle rather than the rich sweetness. The finish is long and bitter and earthy, and not especially pleasant. With a beef, stilton and mustard sandwich, it's a powerful combo and the bitterness and savoury malt brings some balance but on its own, it's not massively appealing.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 06, 2020, 09:01:11 PM
I can't fathom consuming all these drinks with full-bodied, complex and enduring flavour profiles in this warm, sunny weather. I guess i'm a basic twat but weather has always had a fair impact on what i want to drink. Really enjoyed the Pilsner and even the Geuze last week, but struggled with the Picantus and Westmalle.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 07, 2020, 05:48:33 PM
That's just how I do.

Also, my house is is like a fuckin fridge even in this weather, except for the top floor which is sauna tier.

I'm on a Leffe Brune as a gentle warm-up. It's...OK. Kind of pointless. A bit of this, bit of that. Nice in a pub, but standard fayre as fuck.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 07, 2020, 05:54:36 PM
That's how you'll find most of the brune/Dubbel style then. They are all richly flavoured but also intend to be smoother and steady drinking, not competing with Bernardus 12 or Rochefort 10 exactly.

A toxic piece of gender normative Belgian binary for you, a hoary old notion I have heard, probably apocrypha, but it's that over there the Dubbels are for girls and the Tripels are for boys.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 07, 2020, 06:10:47 PM
Ah, interesting stuff. Cheers. I'll be interested to see how the Barnardo 8 turns out then. One of the most fun things about the last month or so has been dipping into a load of different styles and learning, basically. I've found some absolute belters but I'm way off ordering from the shortlist. Well up for trying a load of different stuff even if I don't buzz off it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 07, 2020, 08:24:23 PM
Yeah, with further reflection and sipping, very interesting, Shouldsy boy. And I think you're spot on.

Had a Barnardo Prior 8 and Rochefort 8 and both considerably tastier than the Brune but - to my tastes -  not much on the 12 or 10, which are absolute legends. I'll defo try some more dubbels but all of the tripels and quads I've had hit a lot deeper for me. Good to know!

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 07, 2020, 08:31:04 PM
Yep, just started a Chimay Blue and it's bloody delicious.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 07, 2020, 08:48:19 PM
Glad to read it. Chimay Bleu is arguably a rival to to the likes of Rochefort 10 and Bernie Bros 12. Similar strength. It's such a classic.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: ImmaculateClump on May 07, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
I'm feeling really self conscious about those cans of fosters in my fridge.

Down the sink?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 07, 2020, 09:24:47 PM
Glad to read it. Chimay Bleu is arguably a rival to to the likes of Rochefort 10 and Bernie Bros 12. Similar strength. It's such a classic.

*fainting-hillary.gif*
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 08, 2020, 07:24:22 AM
I'm feeling really self conscious about those cans of fosters in my fridge.

Down the sink?

Haha. No way man, get the notepad out, bit of chin scratching and start banging on about the essence of the Gold Coast.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: ImmaculateClump on May 08, 2020, 11:29:16 AM
Yaaay!
I had a feeling it'd have hidden depths, like when you talk about blue nun and wino's go "It's actually not a bad little wine, actually"
I'll slosh some of the old amber nectar/tasteless pisswater into my trough tonight and see if my sledgehammer palate can pick out any breezy high notes.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 08, 2020, 11:47:51 AM
Quote
Note: The ABV for this beer varies between 4% ABV in Europe, 4.9% ABV in Australia, and 5% in the US.

First brewed by William and Ralph Foster in Melbourne in 1888.

With its Australian heritage, Foster's truly embodies the Australian ‘no worries’ attitude to life. It is an easy-drinking lager that is perfectly balanced with moderate vanilla tasting notes and no hard edges or bitter after taste for perfect refreshment.

The notes I strongly recall from my uni days were flatulence. Stale Fosters gave off this distinctly fartish smell, which on top of its insipid flavour made for a rancid experience.

A surprising quantity of the supposed 'fuck cares gerrit down yer' lagers don't manage to be that easy drinking. Some are served so cold it's almost painful to drink. Some have an unpleasant sting which I suppose is meant to be the 'crisp taste' but without any present flavour. UK and Irish lager excels at this. There are some which genuinely barely resemble beer, but in a noticeably off putting way rather than simply being easy to drink. There are the foul BBQ beer stubbies that taste like a haulier's political views and have so little alcohol or liquid you may as well have just bought a 4 pack of cans.

A lot of their acolytes hold mutually contradictory opinions wherein they are happy to chug all of this noticeably unpleasant beer and defend doing so yet are strongly intolerant of pretty much the rest of the universe of flavours. High quality or otherwise. Class insecurity and peer pressure is tragic.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blinder Data on May 08, 2020, 11:58:49 AM
Tennents is easily the most drinkable piss lager out there. It's basically water. Carling, Fosters, even Carlsberg and Kronenbourg - all rank.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: ImmaculateClump on May 08, 2020, 12:32:15 PM
I only drink to feel funny, to be honest, and I'd much rather have a bottle of whiskey.
Even then, it's whatever they're selling at the local shop or supermarket.
Having said that, someone got me some of this one christmas and the difference from spending just a couple extra quid is huge, really smooth that stuff - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffalo-Trace-Kentucky-Straight-Bourbon/dp/B00CAIZZMI

Sometimes I'll fancy a beer but I don't know what I'm doing at all, to be honest. I just stick to what I know.

I take your point, and wasn't trying to show you all up with my inverted snobbery.
I think my mam did buy some posh smelly beers one christmas and I just threw them down my neck like an eejit. May as well have mixed them all together and stuck a bloody flake in it.

I don't want to be a boorish neanderthal. I'm a man of simple tastes but I'm not proud of it.
Hey, data, I'll give Tennants a go next time, man! That's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 08, 2020, 12:49:47 PM
Much prefer Buffalo Trace to JD and Jim Beam etc. I bought it for the occasional old fashioned but after running out of ice I tried it neat with a few drops of water and given a bit of time in the glass it is very drinkable. 
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 08, 2020, 02:10:45 PM
Btw none of the criticism was aimed at you personally, ImmaculateClump, drink whatever works for you.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: ImmaculateClump on May 08, 2020, 02:28:56 PM
Thanks man, I thought maybe you'd taken my daft aside the wrong way.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 08, 2020, 02:34:16 PM
Thanks man, I thought maybe you'd taken my daft aside the wrong way.

Nah, just used the post as a launchpad for another of my hobby horse rants :)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 08, 2020, 06:01:48 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/qC2xvNS/20200508-174747.jpg)

No idea if this is meant to be OK or what but just fancied a punt on a lager. Not my usual thing but I think this is spot on, especially for a first beer on a balmy Friday evening after a day down the pits. Extremely drinkable. I can imagine going on holiday to Germany and getting absolutely cunted on this and somehow ending up in a brothel and waking up in total despair and calling my wife and crying. PLEASE FORGIVE ME PLEASE FORGIVE ME. Malty notes.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 08, 2020, 06:07:14 PM
Yeah that's a classic Helles lager, up there with Augustiner. Not fancy but bready, lightly malty, sort of sweet, enough hops to make every mouthful enjoyable. Never seen it consumed out of a La Trappe glass.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 08, 2020, 06:13:58 PM
Haha. Yeah, I actually don't have any beer glasses apart from these Trappist jobs. I've enjoyed it. Would be great if I could find something like that on tap round here. Would be a cracking summer bevvy.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on May 08, 2020, 08:16:24 PM
Right. Shoulders if i may be so bold i would like some advice please.

i have the following in my posession as have been inspired to do some blending.

750ml 2019 Oude Gueze Lindemans
750ml Lindemans Kriek
Rochefort 8
Kastel Rouge
paulaner salvator
Floris mango
Schneiderweiss Avenitus
Guiness Export Stout

Where do you think i should start? And roughly what proportions should i use. Happy to fuck around but thought i might draw on your experience first. :) Cheers in advance
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 08, 2020, 08:23:02 PM
I can't see much there I would like to mix with the aventinus tbh. Perhaps the Salvator with its maltier profile might be worth a go on the Guinness?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 08, 2020, 09:22:03 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/tZLHYTV/20200508-193543.jpg)

This is really lovely. A tonka bean, coconut, cacao and vanilla stout. I'm sure this kind of thing is ten a penny these days but it's the first comically flavoured stout I've had where I think it actually complements the base flavour. Kind of earthy liquid Bounty. Really nice for a gimmick tier beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 08, 2020, 09:32:20 PM
I had two pints of that and almost shit myself
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 08, 2020, 09:54:47 PM
In a...good way?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 08, 2020, 10:10:55 PM
No, I think the artwork was mocking me. Nice beer, never had tonka beans since
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 08, 2020, 10:11:26 PM
Quote
750ml 2019 Oude Gueze Lindemans
750ml Lindemans Kriek
Rochefort 8
Kastel Rouge
paulaner salvator
Floris mango
Schneiderweiss Avenitus
Guiness Export Stout

Sorry for the late reply.

They are nice beers but one thing I have noticed so far is that you would be better served with milder beers to blend with the sharp + pronounced flavours you get with Kriek and Oude Geuze. Sometimes 2 complex beers are like 2 positive charges, they don't compliment each other. You can but try though.

Rochefort + Aventinus are probably too complex to involve in this but I would be tempted to mix the Kriek with the Aventinus if you are determined to.

Cherry goes well with dark beer and Lindemans kriek is mild and absolutely bursting full of fruit so there's a start. I highly recommend using an oak aged beer like Rodenbach for this kind of caper.


Ideas:


1) Definitely mix the Gueuze + Kriek together. My suggestion would be 3 parts Kriek to 2 parts Gueuze. Lindemans is so fruity that adding a further sour element will not hurt.
2) Salvator and Kriek may work. Get a separate mixing glass and experiment. I reckon 4 parts Salvator to 1 part Kriek would be ok, but mix a 100ml of it and if it seems like it isnt working just abandon it
3) The Mango + Gueuze may work. Floris Mango is sweet but Gueuze will make it tart. I reckon a good helping of Gueuze in that. 60/40, maybe even half and half.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 08, 2020, 10:37:57 PM
I quite like the new Carlsberg. It’s alright. Mads Mikkelsen drinks it for money
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on May 08, 2020, 10:59:23 PM
Thank you phes and Shoulders. i actually had one bottle of xx in sun and fell asleep. So I am probably better off drinking most of them as they are? Hardly a chore mind. :) I’ll have a think. :)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 08, 2020, 11:16:53 PM
Do these big UK breweries/ factories - I'm thinking specifically of the huge Fosters one in Moss Side - actually take deliveries of hops, malt and barley? I always imagine them getting tankers full of some horrible syrup, like soda stream cordial that they then dilute and carbonate. Probably silly of me. Also, do Strongbow factories get apples delivered?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 08, 2020, 11:26:09 PM
Do these big UK breweries/ factories - I'm thinking specifically of the huge Fosters one in Moss Side - actually take deliveries of hops, malt and barley? I always imagine them getting tankers full of some horrible syrup, like soda stream cordial that they then dilute and carbonate. Probably silly of me. Also, do Strongbow factories get apples delivered?

I think the vast majority (all?) macro breweries use hop tea/oil vs actual hops because it removes the need to filter the beer = one more step that can be removed = refined process = lower costs/more revenue.

I suspect strongbow factories take orders of apple concentrate, dilute it and ferment away (and then backsweeten to all bollocks) but no proof on that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 08, 2020, 11:43:59 PM
Almost certain that all macro brewers will use hop essence. It'll store better, for longer, be cleaner and easier to handle and have less waste etc. Security, reliability, efficiency is king. Flavour is shit
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on May 08, 2020, 11:48:47 PM
Saison Dupont, Duvel, Moeder Overste and a St Bernardus Abt 12 tonight. A good night.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 09, 2020, 01:05:30 AM
I think the vast majority (all?) macro breweries use hop tea/oil vs actual hops because it removes the need to filter the beer = one more step that can be removed = refined process = lower costs/more revenue.

I suspect strongbow factories take orders of apple concentrate, dilute it and ferment away (and then backsweeten to all bollocks) but no proof on that.

Almost certain that all macro brewers will use hop essence. It'll store better, for longer, be cleaner and easier to handle and have less waste etc. Security, reliability, efficiency is king. Flavour is shit

At what size do you think this stops? People like Vocation and High Wire that sell their beers nationally (albeit in comparatively tiny quantities) must still be having to produce lakes of the stuff, and that's before even considering the likes of Marstons and Jennings.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 09, 2020, 01:25:40 AM
No idea to be honest, though I suspect Punk IPA is a good example of a beer that has become so huge that they have have had to adjust the hop bill for the security of consistency. Magic Rock went into their buy out I believe with some degree of input to production in the years following the transition and made it very clear that protecting the quality of the beer was essential. But even if you have owners who are willing to keep investing in quality, you still have the problem that quality, fresh hops can be extremely unreliable in availability and cost. So if you are increasing production you have to get the security by dominating the market for hops or by brewing with something more secure. Large companies have contracts with hop growers and are able to buy up large %'s of global hop harvests for specific strains, sometimes years at a time. Another reason why companies that increase production often have to change recipes
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 09, 2020, 01:37:19 AM
Yeah at a certain point you are backed up in your fermenters and the hops keep coming...

No idea at what point you make the switch, but it’d have to be at a volume where you need to produce more than your fermenters can create, but it isn’t economically feasible to buy another brewing/fermenting setup so you have to get more out of the one you have.

At that point it’s a numbers game. My own aborted hole-in-the-wall brewery/bar was going to stick around 8BBL of output for the taproom that will never exist; and then pickup a 12BBL system later for offsite distribution later on. For it to make sense to switch to crappier/cheaper/more readily available ingredients, it needs to be a huge operation. Orders of magnitude larger than that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 09, 2020, 01:46:31 AM
Don't quote me on this, but I think I even recall that in about 2012ish when we visited Magic Rock they said that they weren't going to be able to brew one of their beers for the foreseeable future because they couldn't source the hops. And who had locked down a huge share of that market, none other than Brewdog. This probably ties into the earlier discussion about why smaller breweries so often are brewing endless amounts of 'specials' and 'collaborations'. Lack of consistent options at a time when the trend is for beers that are heavily hopped.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on May 09, 2020, 01:47:48 AM
It might take a while to reply but I can find a definite response to this question. My ex-boss was the head brewer in Moss Side in previous life. He won a gold medal award for... oh can't remember but it was at least 20 years ago and was a stronger Bass ale I think. Proper chemistry geek. I'll get his number tomorrow. :)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on May 09, 2020, 01:51:50 AM
Oh and good fact about the Moss Side brewery. When it opened they had a deal with the council that they would employ 40% of workforce from Moss Side postcodes. They brought in brewers like him from outside and filled all the admin and grafting jobs with very local locals. There was a review about 5 years in and they got in bother because hardly anyone lived local. They were all well paid in decent jobs so decided to move out of the area. As a teacher who has almost always working in the most deprived areas of the country we used to tell this story to explain how certain schools can do their best to raise people up from their circumstances but the school itself will always serve a community that is disadvantaged.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 09, 2020, 01:52:00 AM
Don't quote me on this, but I think I even recall that in about 2012ish when we visited Magic Rock they said that they weren't going to be able to brew one of their beers because they couldn't source the hops. And who had locked down a huge share of that market, none other than Brewdog. This probably ties into the earlier discussion about why smaller breweries so often are brewing endless amounts of 'specials' and 'collaborations'. Lack of consistent options at a time when the trend is for beers that are heavily hopped.

That’s quite common, breweries tend to own the entire supply chain so you end up having to make do with what you can get, or bend the knee and give them a load of money.

One day soon, I’ll have some outdoor space and I’ll grow my own hops. Just something dull like chinook and something nice like cascade, and I’ll be self sufficient. It’ll be ace.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on May 09, 2020, 01:54:04 AM
Oh and for the cider fans amongst us I am drinking a bottle of Stassen from Home Bargains. 75cl so I drink it like wine. It is very sweet but at the price it is a very nice drink and if, like me you are drinking way too much over lockdown it's a nice trade for a bottle of wine.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 09, 2020, 08:57:15 AM
Thank you phes and Shoulders. i actually had one bottle of xx in sun and fell asleep. So I am probably better off drinking most of them as they are? Hardly a chore mind. :) I’ll have a think. :)

Definitely worth mixing the Gueuze, with the Kriek and Kasteel Rouge. But worth picking up some milder dark ales than that you have.

Get stuck in anyway. If you like the results you'll quickly want to experiment more.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 09, 2020, 12:35:26 PM
60 Franconian kellerbiers/vollbiers from http://www.hier-gibts-bier.de have arrived at my doorstep!

I can see why the shipping cost so much as I have been handed 5 boxes rather than the 2 they could have used if they did packets of 30 like other sites. It has been a truly professional operation though, and the boxes are immaculate. No corners cut.

Here's what arrived:

Quote
Stöckel Bräu Stöckel - Ahorntaler Landbier

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0088-6)
   1    €11,38    €11,38
Krug Bräu Krug Ur-Stoff

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0026-6)
   1    €11,38    €11,38
Hübner Bräu Hübner Vollbier

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0015-6)
   1    €11,38    €11,38
Brauerei Penning-Zeissler Hetzelsdorfer Vollbier

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0010-6)
   1    €11,38    €11,38
Aufsesser Brauerei Aufsesser Zwickl

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0216-6)
   1    €12,40    €12,40
Brauerei Hütten Hütten Zoigl

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0182-6)
   1    €11,98    €11,98
Weismainer Püls-Bräu Weismainer Flechterla Zwick'l

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0166-6)
   1    €11,38    €11,38
Brauerei Göller Göller Kellerbier

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0133-6)
   1    €12,40    €12,40
Brauerei Göller Göller - Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0109-6)
   1    €11,98    €11,98
Schlossbrauerei Reckendorf Reckendorfer Kellerbier

number of bottles: 6 bottles (B0063-6)
        1    €11,38    €11,38


Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 09, 2020, 12:38:22 PM
nearly 1.5 months on, received today from BelgiuminaBox

Quote
Hi Blodwyn

Thank you for your message.

Your order has been shipped yesterday.

Have a nice and safe weekend
Cheers
Kimo
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 09, 2020, 01:01:39 PM
nearly 1.5 months on, received today from BelgiuminaBox

Some good news at least? However you wonder if Belgium in a Box are burning their bridges taking on so many orders they can't process in a reasonable timescale AND can't manage people's expectations either. I expect you won't be handing over more money to them quickly eh, Blods?

First beer review of the 10 I listed above:

Goller Kellerbier unfiltriert (German Kellerbier style, 4.9%) - **** and a half

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT-TxyU5ly9yunxcOpNYxWsR7mj10NZ5em41rcarrbasePfWamK&usqp=CAU)

The first thing to say is this is a classic example of what I mentioned upthread about unfashionable styles from unfashionable breweries losing out on the likes of Ratebeer and Untappd versus average wares from fashionable brewers. 3.35/5 is very unjust. I am joyful that there are 5 more of these to come.

This is thick, unfiltered and amber coloured. On the spicy side too, I am even picking up backnotes of what you'd expect from a Belgian Tripel (seriously) except this is 4.9% and I have a half litre swing-top bottle of it. Wheatbeer is the nearest next style along to Kellerbier, as it is also thick in texture, a tad biscuity and spicy, but Kellerbier has a little something else. Hoppier perhaps and more grainy with delicate floral notes in the aftertaste. The flavour balances vary substantially - a bit like English Bitter tends to cover a wider range than most styles. Some are sweet verging on cloying (eg. Keiler) while some are deliciously citric while lightly grainy (eg. Mauerscheisser). This one certainly competes with any I've had. It's aiming for a straight down the line kellerbier and nails it.

It is usually served in a half litre stone mug or 'steinkrug' with a frothing head popping out over the top. No such luck here. I have a litre Erdinger steinkrug but it's not the time for that yet. However, it doesn't matter overly.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 09, 2020, 01:21:49 PM
Given that my wife has left me and I'm soon to be homeless and jobless, no.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 09, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
M&S are continuing to make good choices for their bog standard ipa, pales and sours, with additions from Moor, Arbour, To OL, Amundsen and BBN0. Nothing all that interesting, just picking the right ones. Shame their core German collection seems to have suffered of late with all Paulaner varieties out of stock
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 09, 2020, 04:45:57 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/ZVs0xCw/20200509-161440.jpg)

This is nice! Not much of a wheat beer guy but this is great to me. Barnardo Wit is still the best example of the style I've had but I'll be picking up a few more of these next weekend. It's like a slightly tangy buttered banana bread. I wish I had a few more in!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 09, 2020, 05:09:04 PM
Yeah that's one of my all time fave wheat beers.

Not so much a correction as a distinction, but Wit beer is a different style, so you will continue noticing any German wheatbeer isnt like Belgian and Dutch wit beers (eg Hoegaarden)

German wheatbeer is thick, smooth, banana, cloves... and wholesome tasting, I suppose. Wit ale from the lowlands tends to be spicy, herbal, citrus and noticeably zingier.

There is a bit of crossover as both can have lemony elements.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 09, 2020, 05:24:36 PM
Cheers! They certainly taste very different (Barnardo Wit is very peachy and peppery to me) so that's interesting and explains a lot. I love this though and I'll keep an eye out for different examples to compare more Wit and Weisse. I would say I must have had plenty more of the Belgian and Dutch style over the years and maybe that's why I've not previously considered myself a fan (despite loving the one I mentioned). I always found it a bit soapy. If the German style is more like the Schneider Weisse, I'll defo have to investigate further.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 09, 2020, 05:39:38 PM
Soapy? That could be the coriander. Common ingredient in wit beer but not part of the usual German wheat beer ingredients.

If you enjoyed the Schneider Weisse then there's good news and bad news. It's a shade darker and more biscuity savoury than the average wheat beer, so other common supermarket ones like Paulaner, Erdinger, Franziskaner won't taste quite like it. Getting hold of its actual contemporaries (Erdinger Urweiss, Ayinger Urweisse, Hacker Pschorr Sternweisse) can be difficult. On the plus side, Schneider Weisse exists.

Also buy Schneider Weisse Aventinus if you haven't had that already. 8% dark wheat bock bier sold by the half litre. It's a beer that remains one of many people's all time favourites (including myself). Definitely a CaB favourite from the evidence of previous threads.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 09, 2020, 06:12:03 PM
Schneider Weisse is one of the only wheats I enjoy.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 09, 2020, 06:15:11 PM
Man, this is great info. Love it. Thanks. I always thought the coriander thing was just a flavour profile rather than an ingredient but that explains a lot.

I've had plenty of Paulaner of different varieties. Bizarrely, there used to be a Paulaner bar in Wuhan where you could get white sausage, among others, sauerkraut, fries and mustard and a massive range of beers. You would have probably loved it! I used to go a lot after I met my German mate and the beer was quality, even if I didn't know what any of it was, necessarily.

Anyway, that's just an aside, I'm chuffed that the bottle shop down the road has this in (and the tasty Helles lager from yesterday) and I'll defo be hitting it up more often now. I'll also have a search online for some of the names you mentioned. Would love to try more of this calibre. The Aventinus sounds great, I'm on it.

Just having a Black IPA now (Salt - Answer Is One) which is more of your daft tin craft fodder, but OK. Makes me realise how similar IPAs are and how one-note. I had a couple of different IPAs last night and all they taste of after a while is piney citrus hops. Glad to have discovered so many more different styles. Cheers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 09, 2020, 06:20:11 PM
Man, this is great info. Love it. Thanks. I always thought the coriander thing was just a flavour profile rather than an ingredient but that explains a lot.

I've had plenty of Paulaner of different varieties. Bizarrely, there used to be a Paulaner bar in Wuhan where you could get white sausage, among others, sauerkraut, fries and mustard and a massive range of beers. You would have probably loved it! I used to go a lot after I met my German mate and the beer was quality, even if I didn't know what any of it was, necessarily.

Anyway, that's just an aside, I'm chuffed that the bottle shop down the road has this in (and the tasty Helles lager from yesterday) and I'll defo be hitting it up more often now. I'll also have a search online for some of the names you mentioned. Would love to try more of this calibre. The Aventinus sounds great, I'm on it.

Just having a Black IPA now (Salt - Answer Is One) which is more of your daft tin craft fodder, but OK. Makes me realise how similar IPAs are and how one-note. I had a couple of different IPAs last night and all they taste of after a while is piney citrus hops. Glad to have discovered so many more different styles. Cheers.

Get in the zoom chat later and show us your bottles
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on May 09, 2020, 06:53:17 PM
Schneider Weisse is one of the only wheats I enjoy.

You gotta love the Paulaner, man! Although Schneider Weisse is an absolute beast.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 09, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
It's been a year or so and I'm going from memory, but I think I prefer the body on the SW to the Paulaner and Weihenstephaner. It's a touch lighter and creamier.

The Magic Rock fantasma I just had didn't go down well at all. Odd as I really enjoyed it only 3 months ago. It felt overly sweet, malty and gloopy (shoulders TM). Dont think it's an off batch, think I've just recalibrated my taste with a lot of lagers and kettle sours in the last few months. Fear not, I've a couple of bottles of trusty Sierra Nevada cooling

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 09, 2020, 07:46:02 PM
(https://www.thepipstop.co.uk/images/tango-sierra-eight-neapolitan-ice-cream-mint-stout-p1281-1446_medium.jpg)

This is gross, meanwhile. The epitome of gimmick tier flavour masking to my tastes. Starts artificially sharp and fruity, followed by a kind of stouty mulch and then finishes with Listerine. Gorgeous can, mind you. I was 'saving it'. I thought it would be strawberry, chocolate and vanilla but no.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 09, 2020, 07:50:28 PM
It's been a year or so and I'm going from memory, but I think I prefer the body on the SW to the Paulaner and Weihenstephaner. It's a touch lighter and creamier.

The Magic Rock fantasma I just had didn't go down well at all. Odd as I really enjoyed it only 3 months ago. It felt overly sweet, malty and gloopy (shoulders TM). Dont think it's an off batch, think I've just recalibrated my taste with a lot of lagers and kettle sours in the last few months. Fear not, I've a couple of bottles of trusty Sierra Nevada cooling

Agree on the SW. Not a fan of the style but they do a nice one. I also like their kristalweiss (sp?) but it’s not easy to find.

I’m gonna come out and say it - I’m not a huge fan of Sierra Nevada. That’s craft heresy but there you go - it’s nice (and I’d definitely take it on draft if available) but it feels a bit like a fossil at this point. That style has moved on and they’re sort of stuck with the recipe they have.

That sounds overly critical, sorry. I still like it fine.

I picked up some Guinness because I fancied it. I must be coming down with something.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 09, 2020, 07:55:05 PM
SNPA is something I moved on from years ago and only in the last few months have regained a very high opinion of. I've tried umpteen supermarket pale and ipas in the last year and SNPA just stands out as being balanced, more than anything else. Not saying you'll come round to a different opinion like, just that I've found my way back to the old fossil for a reason. I'm also a sucker for West Coast over East so I think the style is just my bag
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on May 09, 2020, 08:19:59 PM
60 Franconian kellerbiers/vollbiers from http://www.hier-gibts-bier.de have arrived at my doorstep!

Fucking hell Shoulders thank you for alerting me to this site, particularly now that every German beer from beersofeurope (with the exception of a few low-alcohol variants) has gone gone gone

Absolutely like a kid in a sweetshop here
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 09, 2020, 08:23:59 PM
No problems, perhaps the only obstacle for me was justifying the prices but at £3.25 a bottle Inc. Shipping that's about what you'd pay with Beers of Europe, I guess.

There’s lots to explore, I only focused on Kellerbier really. Highly recommend the Spezial rauchbier, any Maibock and Dunkels, and the Franconia speciality RotBier too.

Re: Sierra Nevada
I had their pale ale last week for a change and a reminder. Nicely amber, strong and hoppy. I find the style difficult stuff to get too worked up about, mind.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on May 09, 2020, 08:26:52 PM
Did you choose your order specifically or go for the packages/mixing boxes? [edit: Wait, are the bottles in the mixing boxes smaller?]
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 09, 2020, 08:31:47 PM
Did you choose your order specifically or go for the packages/mixing boxes?

I had a look at the packages and they didn't seem the best way forward, for me at least. I chose my own.

As you can buy lots of 6 I got 10 lots of 60, which broke down in a cost effective way for shipping. I'd pay close attention to the international shipping costs and make sure you get the most cost efficient shipment for your needs

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 09, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
SNPA is something I moved on from years ago and only in the last few months have regained a very high opinion of. I've tried umpteen supermarket pale and ipas in the last year and SNPA just stands out as being balanced, more than anything else. Not saying you'll come round to a different opinion like, just that I've found my way back to the old fossil for a reason. I'm also a sucker for West Coast over East so I think the style is just my bag

“Fossil” sounds very mean now that I read it back, that isn’t fair really. You’re right, it’s a nice balanced west coast IPA that isn’t mad on the IBUs. I think I prefer the modern permutations of the style, but that isn’t to detract from the granddaddy of them all. There’s a popular sub-style called the Ontario Pale Ale which is very similar - back when Mill Street was independent they had a decent one, and Duggans Brewery still makes the Number 9 (and Amsterdam, Henderson’s and Great Lakes Brewery all have one as well but I forget the names). I think you’d be well up for those, they kicked off the craft scene in Toronto in the late ‘00s/early ‘10s.

I wish some Ontario beers were able to make their way over to you all (and vice versa, to be frank) because we have so little crossover due to absurd provincial licensing laws stuck in the Puritan age* so I can’t join in as much as I’d like (and I’m trying not to overrun the thread as it is). Bit of a shame really, but there you go.

*seriously, Canada didn’t have prohibition but only because the laws were already so draconian. Neighbourhoods of downtown Toronto were legally required to be “dry” until the late ‘90s, unbelievably (https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2012/02/a_brief_history_of_booze_in_the_junction/).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 10, 2020, 02:01:02 AM
.Re: Sierra Nevada
I had their pale ale last week for a change and a reminder. Nicely amber, strong and hoppy. I find the style difficult stuff to get too worked up about, mind.

Absolutely, not a beer i'd try to wow someone with, just one that 100% deserves its place on the shelf.

Opted against a return trip to Asda and got the buffalo trace out. Looks like Bad Co are brewing a range of beers for them, they're cheap, but they all sound very uninspired. APA, IPA, Milkshake IPA etc. The milkshake IPA sounds particularly heinous with lashings of lactose. Not sure I've had a lactose beer that wasn't nasty since drinking in Buxton's tap house
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 10, 2020, 08:14:52 AM
You should share some local beers you enjoy Ferris, even if we can't get hold of them here.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 10, 2020, 10:49:51 AM
You should share some local beers you enjoy Ferris, even if we can't get hold of them here.

I might do, it felt a bit esoteric to do that tbh but maybe I’ll add one or two on the off chance someone has a shot at them.

I’m never fucking having a Guinness again, that’s for sure. Slept like absolute shit, awake since 4.30am, feel like dirt.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 10, 2020, 10:53:23 AM
(https://www.thepipstop.co.uk/images/tango-sierra-eight-neapolitan-ice-cream-mint-stout-p1281-1446_medium.jpg)

This is gross, meanwhile. The epitome of gimmick tier flavour masking to my tastes. Starts artificially sharp and fruity, followed by a kind of stouty mulch and then finishes with Listerine. Gorgeous can, mind you. I was 'saving it'. I thought it would be strawberry, chocolate and vanilla but no.

This looks and reads like an advert for a cunt-tier wrist watch

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 10, 2020, 10:53:37 AM
You should share some local beers you enjoy Ferris, even if we can't get hold of them here.

Amsterdam Brewery - Boneshaker (not Dutch, Canadian) - didn't realise it was 7.1%, perhaps that is why the sunset was so glorious from the beer boat where I first had it

(https://www.lcbo.com/content/dam/lcbo/products/351429.jpg/jcr:content/renditions/cq5dam.web.1280.1280.jpeg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 10, 2020, 01:58:10 PM
New review

Pils-Brau Flechterla Zwickl (Kellerbier, 5.0%) - **** and a half

(https://scontent-lhr8-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/e35/s240x240/93265442_148601336644678_8841192867930493017_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=a8D2ppzz4-0AX8bVhQQ&oh=1a289d4de56c7cc6f5a8503804f64f1f&oe=5ECFDED9&ig_cache_key=MjI4OTk1NTc3MTQ0MTk2MTc5Ng%3D%3D.2)

As if to demonstrate the variety of Kellerbier, this 'Zwickl' is nothing much like the spicy Goller Kellerbier of yesterday, but still damn tasty.

Deep amber, similar colour to an English bitter. Thick texture on account of it being unfiltered and more frothy with a soft thick head. If this stuff was delivered on cask, it wouldn't even be that far away from bitter. The most distinct difference between them is the German hops.

It isn't really about the hop attack upfront, which a lot of beer drinkers, lager or pale ale, will be disconcerting. It's actually about satisfying texture and lingering flavour on the tongue. There's a malty aftertaste that lingers. It's not strong, it's just lingering and pleasant. The bittersweet balance is lovely and it creeps up on you. It's so hard to describe these keller beers. But satisfying and a real revelation if you ever wanted to taste some really good lager. 3.26/5 according to Untappd - LOL
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 10, 2020, 05:51:11 PM
Sounds great, I'll keep an eye out but sounds like the kind of thing I'd need to order online!

I'm having a Westmalle Dubbel and it's really really good. I think going from a few quadrupels to whichever dubbel I had the other day, I thought it was a bit thin but after you explained that it's a very different style, I can see that it's not just a lower tier version. I was expecting something heavier and deeper but I can really see the appeal of this. Very complex and fruity and peppery, juicy as fuck, crisp apple, pear, raisin. Mouthfeel is gorgeous. Fucking good stuff. Glad I picked up a handful!


Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 11, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
New review

Hutten Zoigl
(German Kellerbier/Zoigl, 5.1%) - **** and a half

(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_02_29/f90547eebe8c46b650919a26ba8c0055_640x640.jpg)

This is my first ever Zoigl beer. I have tried examples of 'Landbier', Zwickl, Keller, Vollbier, Rotbier and all the other Urstoff type Franconia brews, but Zoigl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoigl) is a tradition that has died out in Germany except for a handful of villages in the Upper Palatinate, north east of Nuremberg near the Czech border. Each town has brewing families who share municipal brewing facilities on rotation. When their beer is ready they open their houses for fellow brewers and the public. I have not visited yet but it is a fascinating little quirk and survives on that basis. Here is beer that is both novel and traditional at the same time. Most of it is not commercially available, so this may simply be a beer of its character. Google Maps verifies that the brewery is from very close by.

This is unfiltered lager that belongs in the Kellerbier category. It's naturally tinted brown rather than thickly so. It looks more like a well settled cask English bitter than any lager most people will know. The beer itself is another beaut. Stridently bittersweet with zingy persistent hops. It lands on the tongue with a satisfying tingle and tang. I really hate the description of beer as 'chewy', but in lieu of the liquid-based equivalent word, I'll settle for that. It fills your mouth with gorgeous flavour, it satisfies body and mind (for now).



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Smeraldina Rima on May 11, 2020, 03:27:28 PM
Those three Kellerbier look great and I would like to ask fam to chip in for some beers for birthday. Is there a good package deal where you can get one or two bottles of several different kinds of Kellerbier? Same question for other lagers, trappist, wit and wheatbeers or a mixed up selection. The Hier gibts Bier mixing boxes don't seem to reveal which of the beers are included; presumably mixing boxes 1, 2, 3 and 4 are different. Would ordering mixing box 1 and 2 be a decent way to start this whole stupid thing?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 11, 2020, 04:58:48 PM
I would need to check again but as far as I recall the mixing boxes worked out pricier for shipment as there were fewer bottles in the box, also you couldn't control which ones you receive. Not necessarily a problem when they're this good but I preferred choosing my own.

I went for 10 lots of 6, so 10 different beers and 6 of each type, as that was slightly cheaper and met my needs in that I wanted to be able to have another if I really liked it. I think you can put together your own box filled with individual beers of different varieties.

Sorry for the lazy response...
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Smeraldina Rima on May 11, 2020, 05:17:12 PM
Cheers - think I'll go for 5x6 of the Kellerbier and look for a selection pack of Belgian beer somewhere else.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 11, 2020, 05:20:37 PM
Schneider Weisse Helle Weisse (Tap 1)
(A/A+/A-)
(https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/media/catalog/product/optimized/d/f/dfc9b387906486cbe06ee23ee0d9a3fa6fd71f3e3740f90db4e5247e44885315/schneider_weisse_helle_weissbier.png)

This is another real good un. Definitely a little tangier than the Original which I had the other day (and just picked up half a dozen more) and seems like more clove and spice there. Also very very easy drinking and extremely moreish. It's not a tannin dry finish but it does remind me of like Darjeeling tea, there's a bit of a mouth watering citric bite right at the end. Five minutes on, this is a gorgeous beer to take a small sip and roll it around the tongue. You've got the grainy, biscuity comforting earthy stuff all the way in the background and the sharper wheaty fermented tang up front which turns into peppery stone fruits. Really good. Damn.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 11, 2020, 06:16:12 PM
Ah, they have stopped calling the Tap 1 'Mein Blondes' then. These days that's what's on offer on tap more often than the original which you had the other day. It's lighter, sweeter, a bit more lemon, a bit more gloop. Not a huge fan of that one, but would happily take it over Erdinger.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 11, 2020, 06:29:49 PM
Seems it's got lots of slightly different names, in fact. It was hard to find any info on it, wasn't sure if I was on the right page for a while. My bottle doesn't look exactly like that one but seems like the same juice. I can understand why you don't rate it nearly as much (and I'm sipping on an Original now which is several cuts above) but it hits many of the spots that I've typically enjoyed from a tangy, hoppy, citric IPA which was my standard pint until a few months ago. It's like my favourite sharp and citric elements of an IPA with a biscuity, tangy, slightly funky wheat.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 12, 2020, 12:42:27 PM
Bosto - in that case a great number of traditional wheatbeers will be up your street (which is obviously a good thing).

New review:

Stockel Ahorntaler Landbier (Landbier, 5.1%) - *** and a half

(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2019_12_25/03a4e3eb701c4f3af23e4f423b3182c0_640x640.jpg)

Some of this shipment are darker coloured with more roasty malt character than I was expecting, and here's another, even described on the back label as a 'braunbier'. Unlike 'Munich Dunkel' style where the emphasis is on chocolate, nuts, smoothness, and thickness, these are stridently bitter. It is obviously a tad sweeter than a pale but I would invite any fan of early new wave US pale ale (Sierra Nevada and the like) to give this a try as a sidestep into German beers. It packs a satisfyingly hoppy punch.

This one leaves its impression on the front and sides of my tongue rather than the back of the tongue like some of them. The effect is obviously very refreshing but with an imprint of roast nuts and toffee too enjoy lingering in your mouth. It loses a few points as the head disappeared quickly and it doesn't have the subtlety or outright peculiarity of those reviewed so far.  However, it's an enjoyable refreshing + characterful enough drink to recommend. For context, if it was available in a UK bar I'd get it every time.





Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 13, 2020, 01:18:02 PM
New review

Aufsesser Zwickl (Zwicklbier, 4.8%) - ****

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRApyjs1U8PhqU2gWStujjjK6nRw0_pwXUOjN4OcNy4r5_8_caj&usqp=CAU)

Another unfiltered kellerbier, the colour of caramel - less red than the above picture. There are Munich, Vienna and Plzen malts in here with Spalter hops. That distinct tang you get from unfined lager is really present here, almost Czech style in character but not quite. It really lingers nicely. Beautiful flavor, a hint of 'funk' ie, saison/farmhouse ale notes, which I suppose isn't unusual given its a small-time operation (something reinforced by the faded logo on the cap of the swingtop, which has clearly been heavily recycled).

There you are then. Some biscuity kellerbier flavour upfront, an unusual farmhousey type flavour in the mouth and then a big lingering unfiltered tang at the end.

Take a look at the setting of their operations: https://brauereigasthof-rothenbach.de/
An impossibly quaint little hamlet of Aufsess, replete with Schloss, Residenz, kirche, fachwerk houses and riverside brewery. Deep in the centre of Germany's brewing heartlands, 15 miles east of Bamberg.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 13, 2020, 10:00:38 PM
Brauerei Goller - Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff - (Vollbier/Dortmunder-style, 5.2%) - ****

(https://img1.daumcdn.net/thumb/R720x0.q80/?scode=mtistory2&fname=http%3A%2F%2Fcfile5.uf.tistory.com%2Fimage%2F276C673851F3055B32F458)

Some of my Franconia package has been of a more conventional leaning and this one is probably the most 'normal' of the beers that got shipped.  The pressure is on for this one to hold its own against some of the more unusual lagers I've been reviewing. This beer doesn't provide much of a novelty factor but it is a damn good lager. The type that should be an baseline for quality and available across the globe, but sadly isn't.

The beer pours well and you'll be greeted with a familiar nectar/straw type colour. You have a lovely bready, lightly toasted malty flavour which fills your mouth nicely and is accompanied by a just ever so slightly floral hop in the backnotes. The hop sting adds a crisp but thickish finish. It leaves a lingering pleasantness in the mouth as though you just had a decent sarnie a half hour before.

It doesn't have the hop chops to really interest a lot of craft fans, but for those who like a really well balanced malty lager that's ably supported with its hop content, this is one to go for. I can imagine getting through a fucktonne of this tbf. Unfortunately I only have 4 left - I'll take that result though.

Hang on - wtf is This?

(https://www.meininger.de/sites/default/files/tastings/807517/1279110_en.jpg)

That doesn't seem too far away, actually. I didn't know they did beer like Pro Evo player profiles - that's cool.

Difficult to find an equivalent beer for you to get an idea of this one, but Kloster Andechs Vollbier is available in some craft beer bottle shops and is well worth a try. It's a more mainstream version, essentially.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 13, 2020, 10:12:33 PM
Amazing glass, and another interesting review. Cheers!

I've been on the Schneider Weisse and Lindemans Kriek. Both fantastic for me and pretty affordable. I'll never buy Punk again.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 13, 2020, 11:17:36 PM
The flavour note 'harmony' in that diagram is basically just 'is it good', which they evidently responded to with "Well yeah it's fucking boss lager mein damen und herren"
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 14, 2020, 01:05:04 AM
I’d love to hear the creator of that diagram outline the difference between “malt” and “malt flavour”

Are they going for aroma vs taste or something?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 14, 2020, 09:06:27 AM
ITS NEARLY TIME - SATURDAY ZOOM MEET IS ON!

Datum   Tijd   Plaats   Pakketstatus+
14.05.2020   02:22   Gateshead (GB)    Op het depot.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 14, 2020, 11:25:24 AM
Bloody hell that's taken a long time. Are you able to retrieve the booze from the marital home?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 14, 2020, 11:47:58 AM
Bloody hell that's taken a long time. Are you able to retrieve the booze from the marital home?

I remain in the home.

Its arrived - massive
(https://i.ibb.co/V3LYJg6/IMG-7002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fQXdqkJ)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on May 14, 2020, 12:11:46 PM
A bar towel! You lucky bugger.

Remember bar towels, eh? Covered in Watney's Red Barrel, Double Diamond, white dog shit and spangles.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 14, 2020, 12:22:54 PM
Should be a red carpet the way they have treated poor Blods.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 14, 2020, 12:25:55 PM
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KiKADQAAQBAJ&pg=PT161&lpg=PT161&dq=hetzelsdorfer+frankisch+vollbier&source=bl&ots=DAZ-S922rW&sig=ACfU3U1hSGINhnLUBztNVzTAlyB76Yrw2Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjm5NnmnrPpAhWIh1wKHXDxD3cQ6AEwB3oECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=hetzelsdorfer%20frankisch%20vollbier&f=false

Just discovered this tome, 111 Franconia Beers that Must be Drunk

Once I get Translate on it that's Saturday sorted. Geschmacksvereinheitlichung, indeed.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 14, 2020, 12:36:06 PM
Should be a red carpet the way they have treated poor Blods.

First bit of good news in weeks ;)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Dex Sawash on May 14, 2020, 12:48:03 PM

What's the odds of receiving a soggy carton of shards?

Edit- meant to go in chef's special sauce thread
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 14, 2020, 06:30:05 PM
Phwooooar, first of the batch - didn't realise it was 13%

(https://i.imgur.com/fhD3lwZ.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Inspector Norse on May 14, 2020, 08:28:52 PM
I decided to try an alcohol-free beer from Omnipollo. Not because I'm a teetotaller, just because they had it at the local shop (alcohol buying is a complicated task over here) and it's a work night when I don't tend to drink.
I generally like their real beer, even if they go too far down the "creative" route at times, but this is revolting.

I also tried one of those fancy vegan hamburgers the other day, again at a place that are usually really good when doing the real thing. And that was also shite. Just tasted of boiled beans.

I have neighbours who are teetotal vegans. Really nice people but after the week I've had I feel bad for them. I guess I'll just have to abandon the healthy options and settle down for the inevitable onset of middle-aged dad fatness. Still got my hair at least.

Ordered a bunch of new stuff from some of the better Swedish craft places and a bottle of Edradour 10yo to make up for it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on May 14, 2020, 08:34:56 PM
Phwooooar, first of the batch - didn't realise it was 13%

(https://i.imgur.com/fhD3lwZ.jpg)

Did you indulge in a Westvleteren gift pack as well?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 14, 2020, 08:38:11 PM
"Your driver is 10 stops away"

(https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/media/catalog/product/optimized/0/b/0b26443c6e580611a68c578a381b4f65aa534df1218292a8ef0cde178d12e4e6/big_beery_case_.png)

Oh DO hurry up, my driver!

Damn nice selection, that. I've just ordered a load of Belgian beers (and one Estonian beer) from Beer Merchants:

(https://www.beermerchants.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/x400/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/m/o/monastictrappist.png)

Was missing my Chimays at the pub...

That box in full:

Westmalle Dubbel
Chimay Red
Westmalle Tripel
La Trappe Dubbel
Abbaye de Rochefort 8
Abbaye de Rochefort 6
Abbaye de Rochefort 10 
Chimay Bleu
Achel Blond
Achel Brune
Free glass (woo-hoo!)

Plus:

Pohjala Ohtu
Delirium Nocturnum
Satan Gold
Straffe Hendrik Quadrupel
De La Senne Stouterik

Also just starting a batch of Glory Vole with the homebrew kit.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 14, 2020, 08:59:58 PM
Did you indulge in a Westvleteren gift pack as well?

No, just the glass and some beer pate too. Westvleteren was not on my radar. I knew Ferris had it once in Toronto...but inspired by the chat on here I opted for that glass.

Loads of weird and wonderful beers to try out. May show a few on the zoom meet this weekend.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 14, 2020, 09:57:32 PM
feel like pure shit just want Pauvel Kwak
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on May 15, 2020, 02:40:43 AM
First beer blending complete. Was good but not sure I would do too much of it again.

We drank the Aventinus straight. Didn't want to risk it.

Kastel Rouge + Lindeman's gueze. To me it was like a titration. A few too many drops either way and you just got one or the other but get it JUST RIGHT and it was rather nice. You get the cherries from the Rouge and then a nice Gueze finish. Literally needs to be very precise though.

Gueze + Guiness Extra Stout. Probably the best combo. Rocket fuel too.

Kastel Rouge + Guiness Extra Stout. This worked lovely. The cherry coke of guiness.

Gueze  + Floris Mango: I quite liked the other Floris beers but not a mango fan and this was very full on. So add a tiny bit to gueze works. Will try it next time with the passion fruit one. Reckon that will be nice.

Didn't think to try the Guiness with the floris. Reckon that might have worked. Actually, probably will do this again.

The only other thing I did was mix everything together and the end result was, as predicted a bit dull as it just took edge off everything.

Cheers for the advice. Was something to do for an evening and I avoided hangover this morning which was good.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 15, 2020, 06:24:36 PM
Pink Bloesom - lovely strong honey and pear syrup, fermented in bottle
Gentse Stroop - in tribute to the noose wearers, apparently, bog standard light Belgian, but good with my vegetable and meat stew
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 15, 2020, 07:01:44 PM
I had my first La Chouffe this evening. Nice, but not really that much different to a Duvel for me so probably not worth the expense or effort. I've got a few so will give them another chance.

Had another Schneider Weisse, too. Bloody love them. Antiretrovirals for the soul.

Now on a Lindemans Cassis. I had a couple of Kriek for the first time the other day and I really loved them. Cassis is puke tier.

Westmalle Tripel coming up once I poured this down my gullet/drain.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 15, 2020, 07:12:48 PM
Glad to read your blending was fun. If you do that again I would definitely recommend getting some Rodenbach, mild brown ales and fruit beers you can mess with.

Another blend to try is Rezane pivo. Light lager with half a dark beer poured in. Pilsner Urquell and Kozel Cerny is what they will normally give you in Czech Republic. It is an interesting flavour.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 15, 2020, 07:25:58 PM
I think I’ve mentioned it before, but the Rodenbach Grand Cru is one of the few Flemish red sours available near me and it’s really really good stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 15, 2020, 07:48:03 PM
I got a couple of them coming, Ferris! Looking forward to it, never had one before. Feel like this thread is keeping the forum afloat these days on pure good vibes (an getting smashed).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 15, 2020, 07:48:53 PM
Its possibly one of the foulest Belgian beers - rank. Sorry.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on May 15, 2020, 07:49:39 PM
Yeah, I like La Chouffe. It's a decent, reliable, standard beer if caught out at a bar and you need some time to consider your next beer.

I sort of hate like fuck the branding though. I know that's the whole point of it, but it looks like a fucking CAMRA real ale pump label from the bad old days.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 15, 2020, 08:37:38 PM
I think I’ve mentioned it before, but the Rodenbach Grand Cru is one of the few Flemish red sours available near me and it’s really really good stuff.

Yes it's dreamworld stuff for me, hits so many flavours I'm a fan of.

BlodwynPig is always around to confirm how much he hates it and I know the style is love/hate.

Now a blend of Lindemans Cassis with something like Rodenbach sounds good. A forest fruits oaky sour. Nice.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 15, 2020, 09:16:20 PM
I didn't especially like the Cassis by the itself so I'll actually keep the other one for a lil blend with Da Rodney Crew. Worf a gamble.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 15, 2020, 10:05:02 PM
This isn't intended to be observational humour. I really, really hate when your coaster sticks to the bottom of the glass. That is in all honesty the biggest buzzkill. You see, that wasn't funny, not even a bit.

Right now I've got it going, fraid to say. I'm looking at the culprit bland piece of John Lewis shit right now. Love to get my revenge on it, wang it outside. Just alienate it from society, kerbstomp the fucking cunt. Gone.

It's my fault though. I didn't make fair effort to dry the underside of the pint glass. I should be kerbstomping myself.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 15, 2020, 11:48:11 PM
Yes it's dreamworld stuff for me, hits so many flavours I'm a fan of.

BlodwynPig is always around to confirm how much he hates it and I know the style is love/hate.

Now a blend of Lindemans Cassis with something like Rodenbach sounds good. A forest fruits oaky sour. Nice.

To be honest, I’m not a huge fan of the style but that’s a quality example. Getting oaky notes in a Flemish sour is ridiculously impressive and it works to mellow the sourness.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 16, 2020, 10:11:20 AM
I ordered some of that Schlenkerla Marzen. The stuff that tastes like like burnt bacon. Might be arriving today with Da Rodney Crew and some other goodies. Got a few more Barnardo Wit, gonna try La Trappe Witte and some Straffe Hendrik Tripel and Quads. I'm gonna drink myself to death.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 16, 2020, 10:12:37 AM
Rodney Crew?
Barnardo Wit?

Weren't they in the Austrian remake of Carry on Camping?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 16, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Hahaha
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on May 16, 2020, 01:08:09 PM
I think I’ve mentioned it before, but the Rodenbach Grand Cru is one of the few Flemish red sours available near me and it’s really really good stuff.

If you like that then try the Rodenbach Alexander, its next level stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 16, 2020, 01:56:35 PM
If you like that then try the Rodenbach Alexander, its next level stuff.

I have the grand total of 2 Flemish sours available in the LCBO due to our archaic licensing laws, chances of it being in there are next to nothing but will take a look today or tomorrow. It means local beer has to diversify and improve to fill a lot of niches which is nice, but that you are pretty limited by what you can get imported from Europe like it’s a fucking frontier town in 1872.

To be fair, the trappist section is quite good, they just ain’t my joint.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 16, 2020, 05:37:07 PM
If you like that then try the Rodenbach Alexander, its next level stuff.

I've only had the Charactere Rouge of their fancy range, which was quite delicate. What's Alexander got going for it?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on May 16, 2020, 06:49:24 PM
I've only had the Charactere Rouge of their fancy range, which was quite delicate. What's Alexander got going for it?

It's more rounded than the Grand Cru, more fruitiness than sourness, wonderfully balanced.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 16, 2020, 06:51:43 PM
You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know sours until you've tasted the vinegary elixir that is Duchesse Du Moge: Sulfour
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 16, 2020, 07:41:08 PM
Been pounding Schneider Weisse OG like the fridge is fit to burst with the lil cunts because it is. fuck thats nice
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 16, 2020, 08:50:32 PM
In honour of the Mafia game, I will be drinking

De Dochter van de Korenaar

"Crime Passionnel - Internationally styled wheat IPA, criminally fine..."
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 16, 2020, 08:59:10 PM
Just been reading here - the names of this fuggin looney stuff -

De Dochter Van De Korenaar
Gulden Draak 4000
Satan Gold
N'ice Chouffe

Whadda fuggin disgrace
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 16, 2020, 09:34:29 PM
Just been reading here - the names of this fuggin looney stuff -

De Dochter Van De Korenaar
Gulden Draak 4000
Satan Gold
N'ice Chouffe

Whadda fuggin disgrace

I had Gulden Draak 4000 in the last batch, not worth the name
Satan is rubbish too
N'ice Chouffe is commercial crap

De Dochter is amazing
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on May 16, 2020, 10:51:48 PM
Having a Le Fort Tripel straight after a Tripel D'Anvers from the Belgium in a Box batch.

I'm a Tripel D'Anvers fanboy, but I must admit to finding the Le Fort BETTER.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 16, 2020, 11:03:33 PM
Been a couple of years since I had a Le Fort and I reckon I was rat arsed. I like the brewery it's from too. But no. No. NO.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 17, 2020, 01:05:38 PM
Ran out of beers now. I got an order coming but might not be til tomorrow or even Tuesday. I'm thinking of texting the bottle-o and asking him to open up just for his main man, AP. I want some Dalgona Stout and Whoreson's Kriek.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 17, 2020, 05:11:45 PM
feel like pure shit just want

(https://www.amstein.ch/Htdocs/Images/IF_Bottle_700/50030.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 17, 2020, 05:13:55 PM
Have you seen the Samichlaus those lads brew?

Makes that one look like a Bud Light.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 17, 2020, 06:11:39 PM
Vanderghinste, Flanders Sour Ale

FUCKS all over your working class supermarket Rodenbachs.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on May 17, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
(https://store.belgianshop.com/3845-large_default/oerbier-75c-33cl.jpg)

^ Had one of those last night. Don't judge a beer by its label - fantastic beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 17, 2020, 06:27:26 PM
I like Vanderghinste. Took a few goes of ordering in Belgium to get the pronunciation right. Say vonder as quick as possible then the emphasis slams on the aspirated HEEEENSTER.

Vichtenaar edges VdG for flavour, that's my little one-upmanship here.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 17, 2020, 07:00:19 PM
I like Vanderghinste. Took a few goes of ordering in Belgium to get the pronunciation right. Say vonder as quick as possible then the emphasis slams on the aspirated HEEEENSTER.

Vichtenaar edges VdG for flavour, that's my little one-upmanship here.

Can only work with the material I've got
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 17, 2020, 09:32:04 PM
New review

Krug-Brau - Urstoff - (Kellerbier, 5.4%) - *** and a half

(https://scontent-lhr8-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/e35/s240x240/91404763_1258320174363256_6374721512740811574_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=xuawGJxQo34AX8FoRuE&oh=1a4dee4a48cca09e1edc7075307ef87e&oe=5ED9574D&ig_cache_key=MjI3NTc5OTMzMjAxMjI4MTkxMg%3D%3D.2)

Unlike the rest of this shipment I have drunk another beer by this brewery before, the wonderfully named Mauerscheisser, while on a jolly in Forchheim near Bamberg. It was a hot day and that beer even stays with me now, as it was one of those beautiful right-place-right-time moments. Also some German pensioners who I was sharing the table with outside were giggling at the label. Served in a steinkrug, bright lightly floral and just begging to be demolished, it took no more than 15 minutes even when I was telling myself to slow down.

This one seems to approach the style from a different angle. 5.4% is pretty strong given the rigid absence of variety in strength of the beer in this shipment (all the rest are between 4.8-5.1%).

The colour of it is more traditional lager coloured. Straw/gold with an unfiltered very slight haze. The beer has taken me a few tries to really get. You can certainly appreciably tell it's a stronger beer, with the glazed honeyness in booze backed up by floral bitterness. There's a slight pastorally element too. The aroma is of haybails and tilled fields which remains throughout.

This one is the nearest to Helles lager I have tried so far. Less carbonation, more straw-like breadiness and floral hops. If you took an Augustiner deep into the countryside and quaffed it on a hot day in the farmland, basically. Bavaria in a glass, as trite as that may be.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 18, 2020, 06:07:37 PM
Sounds like a good un, great review. I'm sold.

I've had half of a Schlenkerla Rauchbier Marzen and while I didn't mind it initially, it gradually made me feel quite nauseated. It's basically the beer version of Lapsang Souchong and that's one of the only tea varieties I can't stomach. I can take a bit of smoke and peat in Scotch but I certainly don't crave it. I heard you need to really have a few to get past the smoke. I've got one more but I'm likely to give it away.

In better news, I've had my first La Trappe Witte and it's good stuff. It's not quite Barnardo tier for me, not especially deep or complex, but extremely pleasant. Like a very soft sherbet, a little pineapple, a touch of floral honey. If someone brought you a surprise pint of the stuff you would be very pleased. Deserves better surroundings than a dreary grey lockdown Monday evening.

(https://i.ibb.co/hKGj2Nm/20200518-175229.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 18, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
That's one of my favourite Wits, nice rounded flavour, not too bleachy or too citric or too grossly herbal. Nice thick texture. Slightly overlooked. If someone's budget is tight but they still want to try a Belgian beer in a bar I'd point them towards that.

As for the Rauchbier, that's one of the ultimate acquired tastes. I might have got lucky as first time around as I had a bad cold coming on. It was snowing outside and that power-punched through it. I got talking to a guy who was back in his home town of Bamberg for Christmas and New Year and he reckoned it takes 3 until you get used to it, and I think he meant 3 in one sitting. I was enjoying it by the end of the first one, left having got through 4 and had a nice chat with his family.

.com/category/bamberg/]Schlenkerla (https://[SPAM - REMOVED) is one of, if not the best brewery tap/brewery pubs in existence. Trad Germany but authentic, not kitsch. There's a ceramic heater, an 'ausschenk' and a tidy little pub room alongside the bierhalle across the corridor. You just want to bed in all day, and the only thing coming out of the taps (holzfass too, from a wooden barrell) is the Schlenkerla Marzen - everyone's having it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 18, 2020, 07:18:21 PM
I can really imagine that, it sounds wonderful. I'd love to go. I can see me giving it a proper go in that context but first beer when I'm hungry and a bit knackered, just a little too much. I'd really like to try the wheat variant, and I'm sure I will at some point.

Now sipping my way through a Rodley Grand Crew for the first time. Pretty challenging stuff, as well, never had anything quite like it, hard to ignore the red wine vinegar but fuck me, it's complex and satisfying. There's so much there, tart berries, Granny Smith, almost salty malt, bready earthiness, tannin finish. Fucking wild. Definitely a once in a blue moon job but it's woken me up!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 19, 2020, 09:16:37 AM
I just want to say I have no way of expressing myself about beer beyond 'really nice' or 'fucking rank piss' but I am really enjoying reading this thread, especially during lockdown. Please keep posting beers.

My friend who is really into craft beer and says things like 'chewy mouthfeel' and 'eminently crushable' told me that Salt Beer Factory Ikat Ddh Double is the best craft beer you can get in a supermarket so I thought fuck it and it's waiting for me in the fridge. It has a pink can and is from Yorkshire.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blinder Data on May 19, 2020, 11:43:59 AM
Shoulders I just read your blog's list of best bars in Europe and now I desperately want to go just one of them so much. Lordy Lord, I miss pubs. God knows how you're feeling considering you probably visit ten times more pubs than me.

I would like to echo the praise for the sterling work of the participants of this thread.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 19, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
Thanks guys! I'm glad some of it is worth reading.

It wasn't too bad when most of Europe was locked down as I didn't feel I was missing out. Seeing places like Papa Joe's, Spiz, Piwna Stopa, Bodega Bellver re-opening this week is now making me feel really depressed that I can't get out of this fucking morgue of a nation and enjoy them.

Scary though to think of how many in my .com/top-100-bars-in-europe-2019-part-1/]Top 100 (https://[SPAM - REMOVED) may never re-open.

In the meantime there is nowt to do, so you will just have to sit there and read more of my expansions about German kellerbier.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 19, 2020, 06:00:59 PM
Fuckin respect. That will make great reading while I am drink one of many beers tonight
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on May 19, 2020, 07:07:24 PM
Thanks guys! I'm glad some of it is worth reading.

It wasn't too bad when most of Europe was locked down as I didn't feel I was missing out. Seeing places like Papa Joe's, Spiz, Piwna Stopa, Bodega Bellver re-opening this week is now making me feel really depressed that I can't get out of this fucking morgue of a nation and enjoy them.

Scary though to think of how many in my .com/top-100-bars-in-europe-2019-part-1/]Top 100 (https://[SPAM - REMOVED) may never re-open.

In the meantime there is nowt to do, so you will just have to sit there and read more of my expansions about German kellerbier.

Just realised I think I used that website a few years ago to direct me to a good bar in prague, no idea what it was but it was great!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 19, 2020, 07:08:59 PM
'tis the season

(https://store.belgianshop.com/3596-large_default/corsendonk-xmas-85-14l.jpg)

Not as good as the sublime extra hops Corsendonk I had yesterday. I haven't found a Christmas Belgian that actually tastes Christmassy yet
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 19, 2020, 07:30:14 PM
Just realised I think I used that website a few years ago to direct me to a good bar in prague, no idea what it was but it was great!

That's great, always encouraging to see people who may have found the site of their own volition rather than my plugging.

There were a number of trigger points. CaledonianGonzo started a thread several years back about good bars and pubs around the world. (https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=50743.150) I found Ron Pattinson's Web 1.0 European Beer Guide (https://www.europeanbeerguide.net/) very useful but the beer focus meant there were a lot of dud, bland venues. Otto's Rambles (http://www.ottosrambles.co.uk/) is a messy but useful resource, but again focused on beer above all else by far. They will happily sit in any old sterile room if it serves the beer they want to drink.

I then read the Pisshead's Guide to Prague (https://www.praguebeergarden.com/news/post/prague-a-pissheads-pub-guide-2nd-edition) by Max Bahnson and this was much more about the venue and the people.

It all really pulled together the fact that I had visited a reasonable number of outstanding venues, have a photographic memory for places and reasonable long term memory in general and could put something together that put the emphasis on pub going not just beer drinking. That's an angle that hasn't really been done.

That also exposed just how impossible the task is, to cover so much of Europe single-handedly just isn't going to happen and this is why guest writers are invited. Honestly, if any of you want to wax lyrical about a pub you like, I will publish it.

The process of getting ever deeper into the project also demonstrated how much more I had to learn, I am far from an expert on the subject. The Glossary below is taken from my research of each European countries historical pub culture.  https://[SPAM - REMOVED].com/glossary/

I have also recently been reading The Local by Paul Jennings, an academic rather than pop culture work, to learn more about the history of the English pub and the gorgeously produced Belgian Cafe Culture by Regula Ysewijn which comes at it from an ultra sentimental angle and more importantly, from the perspective of women, who make up the traditional innkeeper role in Belgian culture.

This is for fun of course but to ensure I have something to say other than overusing cosy, gezellig, hygge, genius locii etc.

One of the best things about pubs is their ability to inspire loyalty and I see this as my efforts to pay them back for the good times they have given.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 19, 2020, 07:33:05 PM
Quote from: BlodwynPig
haven't found a Christmas Belgian that actually tastes Christmassy yet

I'm not sure what you have in mind for Christmas flavours. Leffe Noel does the rounds in Brussels in December and that has a very rounded and boozy dollop of figs, nuts, winter berries and spices. It sticks in the memory of being both an ostentatious effort to be festive and not bone rottingly awful.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 19, 2020, 07:35:53 PM
Honestly, one of the best things I've read in recent months so thanks. I'll shill that far and wide for you.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 19, 2020, 07:50:47 PM
I'm not sure what you have in mind for Christmas flavours. Leffe Noel does the rounds in Brussels in December and that has a very rounded and boozy dollop of figs, nuts, winter berries and spices. It sticks in the memory of being both an ostentatious effort to be festive and not bone rottingly awful.

actually after reaching nearer the bottom of this one, the Christmas taste is exploding - mince pie goodness but not overtly.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 19, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Amazing how much the Westmalle Dubbel has grown on me after an initial ho hum impression. I'd day it's up there with Barnardo Wit and 12 plus Schneider Weisse, as near top tier so far. S+ tier. Maybe the Barnardo 12 is S++ alongside the Rochefort 10. I need to get a few more of the latter nowhere I've been working my way through some quality shit. Chimay Blue and Straffe Hendrik Quad also beast mode. Solid S.

Chef Rodley Gran Crew is probably B+, but hard to say because it's so outlandish to me.

Only outright dunks so far are La Chouffe and Straffe Hendrik Tripel, which I had tonight for the first time. Both decent but not worth the money or waiting time. I'm happier to have something I don't really like but is interesting like Schlenkerla or Lindemans Cassis than something pretty generic.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on May 19, 2020, 10:37:22 PM
Got these lovely bottles delivered to me today:

Karmeliet Triple 8.4% abv 33cl Blt
Kwak  8.4% abv 33cl Blt1   
Brugse Zot Dubbel 7.5% abv 33 cl Blt
Augustiner Maximator 7.5% abv 500ml Blt
Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel 5% abv 500ml Blt
Ayinger Celebrator 6.7% abv 33cl
Weihenstephan Korbinian 7.4% abv 500ml Blt
Weihenstephan Kristal 500ml Blt
Wieninger Impulsator 7.5% abv 33cl Blt
Hacker Pschorr Animator 8.1% abv 500ml
ABK Hefeweizen 5.3% abv 500ml Blt
Kloster Scheyern Poculator 7.6% abv 500ml
Efes Pilsener 5% abv  500ml Blt1   
Westmalle Tripel 9.5% abv 33cl    
Kinnegar Scraggy Bay 5.3% abv 500ml Blt

Never had the Kloster Poculator before. What a beer, loved it. Nice, hearty doppelbock.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 19, 2020, 10:45:27 PM
Got these lovely bottles delivered to me today:

Karmeliet Triple 8.4% abv 33cl Blt
Kwak  8.4% abv 33cl Blt1   
Brugse Zot Dubbel 7.5% abv 33 cl Blt
Augustiner Maximator 7.5% abv 500ml Blt
Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel 5% abv 500ml Blt
Ayinger Celebrator 6.7% abv 33cl
Weihenstephan Korbinian 7.4% abv 500ml Blt
Weihenstephan Kristal 500ml Blt
Wieninger Impulsator 7.5% abv 33cl Blt
Hacker Pschorr Animator 8.1% abv 500ml
ABK Hefeweizen 5.3% abv 500ml Blt
Kloster Scheyern Poculator 7.6% abv 500ml
Efes Pilsener 5% abv  500ml Blt1   
Westmalle Tripel 9.5% abv 33cl    
Kinnegar Scraggy Bay 5.3% abv 500ml Blt

Never had the Kloster Poculator before. What a beer, loved it. Nice, hearty doppelbock.

Top quality choices if I may say. Where did you get that lot from? I'd be happy with that as my next order.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 19, 2020, 10:46:15 PM
Amazing how much the Westmalle Dubbel has grown on me after an initial ho hum impression. I'd day it's up there with Barnardo Wit and 12 plus Schneider Weisse, as near top tier so far. S+ tier. Maybe the Barnardo 12 is S++ alongside the Rochefort 10. I need to get a few more of the latter nowhere I've been working my way through some quality shit. Chimay Blue and Straffe Hendrik Quad also beast mode. Solid S.

Chef Rodley Gran Crew is probably B+, but hard to say because it's so outlandish to me.

Only outright dunks so far are La Chouffe and Straffe Hendrik Tripel, which I had tonight for the first time. Both decent but not worth the money or waiting time. I'm happier to have something I don't really like but is interesting like Schlenkerla or Lindemans Cassis than something pretty generic.

St Colchester Hard Wank Cru would have been similarly amusing.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on May 19, 2020, 11:01:12 PM
Top quality choices if I may say. Where did you get that lot from? I'd be happy with that as my next order.

Besides the Celebrator I haven't had any of those German beers before so I'm very excited to try them.

https://www.vineyardbelfast.co.uk/

They are the best off licence in Northern Ireland. Sadly they are closed to the public now but are expanding their online shop. Initially the online shop was fairly limited to mostly so-so local beers but in the last two weeks they have added a lot of Belgian and German beers. Shipping to the rest of the UK is 20 pound though which seems steep.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 20, 2020, 08:01:20 AM
Thanks anyway, good to know.

After joining a Czech beer group on Facebook they have hooked me up with a site called https://www.pivnidarky.cz which sells small regional Czech beer AND ships to the UK (for hardly anything).

They sell the beer in 1.0l and 1.5l PET bottles which are perfectly good for lagers.

I just bought the equivalent of 31 500ml bottles in there for £54.00 including shipping! This is not shit stuff either, Brevnov and Malesov are very good breweries. Unsure of the others as they are so obscure I am not sure I have even seen them over in Czechia. Some of them on Untappd only have 12 ratings in total.

I bought a range of 10, 11, 12° light lagers, a weizenbock, a rauchbier, a dark lager and there are several craft pales and so forth if people want that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on May 20, 2020, 08:53:35 AM
Thanks anyway, good to know.

After joining a Czech beer group on Facebook they have hooked me up with a site called https://www.pivnidarky.cz which sells small regional Czech beer AND ships to the UK (for hardly anything).

They sell the beer in 1.0l and 1.5l PET bottles which are perfectly good for lagers.

I just bought the equivalent of 31 500ml bottles in there for £54.00 including shipping! This is not shit stuff either, Brevnov and Malesov are very good breweries. Unsure of the others as they are so obscure I am not sure I have even seen them over in Czechia. Some of them on Untappd only have 12 ratings in total.

I bought a range of 10, 11, 12° light lagers, a weizenbock, a rauchbier, a dark lager and there are several craft pales and so forth if people want that.

Amazing, will definitely check that out once i get through my current supply!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 20, 2020, 02:29:13 PM
Trappist ales arrived yesterday. Decided I should support my local cheesemonger during These Unprecedented Times and went out and overbought, came back with some goat goada, some smoked manchego and a nice bit of pecorino with black truffle. Homebrew is almost ready for bottling, got a nice layer of ale yeast collecting at the bottom of the fermenter, going to make some more ale bread. Going to have me a nice indoor picnic on Friday, job's a good 'un.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Smeraldina Rima on May 20, 2020, 02:45:26 PM
I ordered some Belgian beer from the Beerwulf based on what people said was good, what had the most instagrammable labels (Retinend's tip) and what they had left:

Duchesse De Bourgogne
Rochefort 8'
Gouden Carolus Tripel
De Koninck Triple D'Anvers x2
Lefort Tripel (Cuellar's dilemma)
St. Bernardus Wit
St. Bernardus Tripel
Brugse Zot Blond
Westmalle Tripel
Weihenstephaner Korbinian
La Chouffe Blonde D'ardenne (Got to be done)
Westmalle Dubbel
Affligem Dubbel
Lefort Belgian Brown Ale
Rodenbach Grand Cru (Blodwyn's scourge)
Bruut Gajes Tripel (Netherlands)

A few dubbels and tripels to compare and a couple of wild cards.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 20, 2020, 04:21:48 PM
Affligem Dubbel is nice iirc. Used to like one of those at the Brauhaus in Embra, followed by a Grimbergen.

Grimbergen does nice glasses what have got phoenixes on them:

(https://www.drinkworld.dk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/g/r/grimbergen_50_cl..png)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 20, 2020, 04:22:25 PM
LGP Smer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 20, 2020, 04:57:08 PM
Grimbergen's brewery Alken-Maes is now under Heineken's auspices sadly. It isn't all bad - the distribution of the brand has gone blitzkrieg - you can now find Grimbergen as a premium beer choice even in fairly bland bars across Eastern Europe. It wouldn't be my first choice normally but it has saved the day several times from the grubby pissy lager alternative.

However the main beers - the blonde and the dubbel haven't done too well under them. They have also resorted to shrinkage - they reduced the size of bottles to 0.3l instead of 0.33l which is just a wanker move that's initiated by the biggest cunts in the industry.

I think I would be happy to see Grimbergen more than I would something like Leffe but it is more on that tier than something like Brugse Zot (in my humble opinion).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 20, 2020, 06:54:45 PM
Ah that's a shame. I used to go for the Grimbergen Dubbel but it must have been at least two years since I had one. The Brauhaus in Embra was doing badly and I think it was closed for a while, think it's reopened now but I have no idea what they're like and of course I can't pop down there now and tell you, or order a Grimbergen and see if it tastes any different.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 20, 2020, 07:07:56 PM
Sipping on a Straffe Hendrik Quad like nobody's business. Great stuff. Well worth taking a good hour over it, defo opens up the malty depths and even gets a little tart in the finish. At 11%, not really a working lunch style bevvy but WFH? LGC
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 20, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
Currently drinking something from this sexy can:

(https://www.ocado.com/productImages/421/421050011_0_640x640.jpg?identifier=c602ea12bec49e1257bc1688bec59a56)

AND UNION, Munich. Unfiltered black lager. Very interesting. Smells very hoppy, doesn't taste very hoppy at all. Tastes very clean and creamy and malty. Bit sweet. Not too fizzy. More like a flavoursome dark beer with a lager character than your typical dark lager. Very pleasant.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 20, 2020, 08:37:43 PM
As you would imagine I also saw that in Waitrose and drank it recently. Sort of like a Schwarzbier with some extra liquorice notes than a full on sweet dark lager. It was nice enough. A 500ml bottle would have been preferable.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 20, 2020, 08:40:36 PM
Yeah, I'm a sucker for a sexy can. Also Waitrose had it on offer. Might try the rest of the range next time I wander over there to stock up on posh cheese.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 20, 2020, 11:24:04 PM
The black lager is my favourite of the range although I’ve never seen their wheat beer on the shelves. The cans are real lookers. I really, really like the black lager. Scratches an itch. I would like to try some schwarzbiers on the back of it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 21, 2020, 10:35:01 AM
Just to add to my post about the Czech beer order above. The motto 'If it seems too good to be true, it probably is' arrived once again to bite good fortune on the bum.

In this case the shipping costs weren't as cheap as it appeared, because I was using the Czech website which wasn't designed to convert shipping costs before payment. I should have used https://www.czechbeergifts.com/ .

Take a look at their offerings: https://www.czechbeergifts.com/c/beer-specials/

As a result the cost has risen but only to the same/similar to http://ebrowarium.pl . £74.00 for effectively 30 500ml beers, I don't really mind paying that given you can't get these beers in the UK.

I did point out how the site should be robust enough for that not to happen and they've given me a 5% voucher off my next order.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on May 21, 2020, 03:52:03 PM
I'm sitting in my garden, soaking up the sunshine, drinking Carlsberg Export.

Yes, I like Carlsberg Export. I think it's very nice.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 21, 2020, 04:39:39 PM
Did they rebrew that one as well or is it the same as before?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on May 21, 2020, 05:38:41 PM
Not sure, hadn't had it in a while. It was always one of the better 'famous' brand beers though.
I just fancied a few cold lagers and they were by far the best thing Nisa had in the fridge.
Going down a fucking treat.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 21, 2020, 05:46:38 PM
Had a mysterious second Schlenkerla Rauchbier and I enjoyed it quite a bit more, drank through the smoke and tasted the beer. Must be amazing next to a proper fire in a proper pub with a plate of chips, mustard and sausages.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 21, 2020, 07:13:48 PM
Fuck, since my wife left me this BUMPER load of Belgians ain't have disappearing at a rate. Had a night off last night, but having a Gruut Inferno tonight and its tasty, "a reminiscence of those hot gobstoppers you used to get in the 80s and 90s"

Got to save some beers for Saturday zoom*

*I only have 1 a night apart from last Saturday - not descending into alcoholism
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 21, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Ffs. Apparently Fagans (Sheffield) pub sign has been taken down. If Covid brings a premature death to that pub then I'll never forgive it (like I was planning on).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on May 21, 2020, 09:04:25 PM
NOOOOOOOO!!!! Though despite living opposite it when I went to university there, I hardly ever went because we were told 'Irishmen' might 'cut' 'students'.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on May 21, 2020, 09:05:15 PM
Also sometimes Jarvis Cocker was in the Washington and it was cheaper.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on May 21, 2020, 10:09:40 PM
Had a mysterious second Schlenkerla Rauchbier and I enjoyed it quite a bit more, drank through the smoke and tasted the beer. Must be amazing next to a proper fire in a proper pub with a plate of chips, mustard and sausages.

Yeah...it is a weird one, isn't it? You try the first one and think "OK...got it. Tastes like bacon, but this isn't a session beer". Then you have a second and everything suddenly clicks into place. Lovely stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 21, 2020, 10:14:44 PM
New review

Hutten Zoigl
(German Kellerbier/Zoigl, 5.1%) - **** and a half

(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_02_29/f90547eebe8c46b650919a26ba8c0055_640x640.jpg)

This is my first ever Zoigl beer. I have tried examples of 'Landbier', Zwickl, Keller, Vollbier, Rotbier and all the other Urstoff type Franconia brews, but Zoigl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoigl) is a tradition that has died out in Germany except for a handful of villages in the Upper Palatinate, north east of Nuremberg near the Czech border. Each town has brewing families who share municipal brewing facilities on rotation. When their beer is ready they open their houses for fellow brewers and the public. I have not visited yet but it is a fascinating little quirk and survives on that basis. Here is beer that is both novel and traditional at the same time. Most of it is not commercially available, so this may simply be a beer of its character. Google Maps verifies that the brewery is from very close by.

This is unfiltered lager that belongs in the Kellerbier category. It's naturally tinted brown rather than thickly so. It looks more like a well settled cask English bitter than any lager most people will know. The beer itself is another beaut. Stridently bittersweet with zingy persistent hops. It lands on the tongue with a satisfying tingle and tang. I really hate the description of beer as 'chewy', but in lieu of the liquid-based equivalent word, I'll settle for that. It fills your mouth with gorgeous flavour, it satisfies body and mind (for now).

Enjoying a bottle of this tonight. God damn it's tasty.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on May 22, 2020, 03:40:07 PM
Just a heads-up that beersofeurope.co.uk have got about three quarters of their German beers back in stock, though for how long, who knows. I will try hier-gibts-bier.de at some point but for now, the Kings Lynn boys can ably furnish my needs.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on May 22, 2020, 04:10:01 PM
Ordered...

Monchshof Bock Bier
Neumarkter Lammsbrau Dunkle Weisse Hefeweissbier
Neumarkter Lammsbrau Urstof
Schlenkerla Rauchweizen
Weltenburger Kloster Barock Dunkel
Weihenstephaner Tradition
Weihenstephaner Korbinian
Tucher Bajuvator Doppelbock
Schneider Weisse Tap 7 Unser Original
Kloster Scheyern Doppelbock
Ayinger Brauweisse
Ayinger Ur Weisse
Bischofshof Regensburger Zoigl (the only zoigl they do... let's give it a go :) )

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 22, 2020, 05:10:31 PM
That is good news (and that's a nice haul).

Out of the other ones I can see In Stock, these are either ones I know are delicious or are oddities/rarities I haven't tried but are very highly rated.

Boltens Ur-Alt
Dampfbier (a regional weird one)
Gutmann Hefe and Gutmann Dunkel
Hacker Pschorr Sternweisse (for any fans of Schneider Original)
Hovels Bitterbier (another one-off)
Kapuziner Weissbier Schwarz
Monschof Bock + Keller
Nordbrau 93er
Weltenburger Kloster Asam-Bock
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 22, 2020, 09:20:11 PM
LGC

Schneider Weisse 07 & 01
Westmalle Dunkel
Westmalle Tripel
Restless Imperial Vietnamese Coffee Milk Porter
Chef Rodley
Straffe Hendrik Quad

LGC
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 22, 2020, 09:58:33 PM
Bought a rake of the local pilsener.

#lgc #rrr
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 22, 2020, 09:59:00 PM
Whats rake eh

Whats rake precious
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 22, 2020, 10:23:48 PM
Whats rake eh

Whats rake precious

https://www.irishslang.info/louth/louth/a-rake

Actually had no idea it was Irish, just thought it was generic “lads” banter. Mind you, most of the laddy lads I go boozing with are from Dublin/Kildare so there you go.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: sardines on May 23, 2020, 08:31:45 PM
Ah, Mechelen! I was there during the Indian summer last October. Beautiful place. Honestly, some of the centre is outstanding and I noticed you can get around without pushing past tourists and getting planted onto the cobbles by idiot tour groups and cyclists. Really cheap on a weekend train ticket from Brussels also.

Jumping back to this. It is a rapidly moving * city as a lot of young 'uns are unable to afford the Leuven, Antwerp, Brussels triangle so the bar scene starts to become pretty decent.
Aside from Hannekeef, the other classic is Den Stillen Genieter. Possibly between locations when you were here. Gérard the owner is either a legend or a health and safety risk depending on your tolerance. He takes 15 mins to throw a book at you containing a ridiculous amount of great beers and if you are lucky he may even take your order 30 mins later.

Took a short drive today into the country to Hof ten Doormal. A farmhouse brewery in the classic sense. Came back with around 30 bottles from their selection of sours and saisons brewed with their own grains and fruit.

*well by Belgian standards
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 23, 2020, 08:35:49 PM
Bought a rake of the local pilsener.

#lgc #rrr

Ended up working until after 9, opened one can, drank half and tipped they rest away. Pathetic.

#lngc
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 23, 2020, 08:43:38 PM
Thanks for the bar recommendation. Waiting so long for a beer doesn't sound amazing but the bar does look good and I can see a few comments already referring to the 'character' in charge. I'll pop that one on the map.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on May 23, 2020, 08:45:13 PM
On the Delirium Black now - stunning, like a oaky single malt whisky.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 23, 2020, 11:35:03 PM
Sipping on a Straffe Hendrik Quad like nobody's business. Great stuff. Well worth taking a good hour over it, defo opens up the malty depths and even gets a little tart in the finish. At 11%, not really a working lunch style bevvy but WFH? LGC

Got one of these with my Beer Merchants order. Enjoying it now. You are not wrong.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on May 24, 2020, 12:49:49 AM
Given the recent delivery times from BIAB, I've placed an order before I acually need one. £129 all in.

--   Hanssens Oude Gueuze 37.5 cl   
1   4,90 €
--   Hanssens Oude Kriek 37.5 cl   
1   6,00 €
--   Hanssens Oudbeitje 37.5 cl   
1   5,90 €
--   Hanssens Cassis Lambic 37.5 cl   
1   7,50 €
--   Hanssens Schaarbeekse Kriek 37.5 cl   
1   8,30 €
--   Hanssens Framboos 37.5 cl   
1   6,99 €
--   Wilderen Kanunnik Tripel 33 cl   
2   2,70 €
--   Ginger Tipple 13% 33 cl   
1   3,30 €
--   Liefmans Kriek-Brut 33 cl   
7   2,70 €
--   Rodenbach Alexander 33 cl   
8   2,60 €
--   Rodenbach Grand Cru 6-Pack + FREE Rodenbach Grand Cru Glass   
1   15,50 €
--   La Trappe Quadrupel 33 cl   
2   2,90 €
--   Corsendonk Brewery Pack (10-Pack) + FREE Corsendonk Bottle & Glass
1   25,50 €
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 24, 2020, 12:50:51 AM
Holy shit. That order is not fucking around even slightly.

End Level Boss
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on May 24, 2020, 02:22:28 AM
Girl friend bought be a load of half-bottles of Lindemans as apology for dumping a new cat on me. We aye. :)

- Lindeman's Gueze
+ Lindeman's cheap kriek, apple, blackcurrant.

Have to say that blending the cheap lindeman's with Guiness Export Stout is very nice. Might be a bit pissed an might be the blending equivalent of snakebite but it works for me. TBF Guiness Export Stout is really nice anyway but adding a bit of of sweet fruit to it doesn't do any harm whatsoever.

Extra stout and Gueze is definitely the best budget blending mix mind. Delicious. Going to try to triple up.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on May 24, 2020, 01:05:31 PM
Didn't realise Kwak and Tripel Karmaliet are made by the same brewery. Had those last night alongside a Brugse Zot Dubbel, a Wieninger Impulsator and a couple of unremarkable IPAs. The Impulsator was ok. Kloster Scheyern Poculator and the Weihenstephan Korbinian have been the nicest doppelbocks I've had thus far and will be hard to beat.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 24, 2020, 04:51:21 PM
Having an OG lovely Schneider Weisse Tap 01 in a hot bath with lots of lovely bubbles to watch the daily corono briefing. If Cumdumpster don't get binned, I'm smashing my glass and slitting my wrists, ankles and neck.  😂

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 24, 2020, 04:52:55 PM
Got one of these with my Beer Merchants order. Enjoying it now. You are not wrong.

Great stuff, glad to hear it. It is a good un! I've got one left but defo on my list for the re-up.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 24, 2020, 08:35:57 PM
I just want to say I have no way of expressing myself about beer beyond 'really nice' or 'fucking rank piss' but I am really enjoying reading this thread, especially during lockdown. Please keep posting beers.

My friend who is really into craft beer and says things like 'chewy mouthfeel' and 'eminently crushable' told me that Salt Beer Factory Ikat Ddh Double is the best craft beer you can get in a supermarket so I thought fuck it and it's waiting for me in the fridge. It has a pink can and is from Yorkshire.
Finally got around to drinking this. I poured it into a pint glass and it looked nice. I smelled it and it smelled nice. I then drank it and was dismayed to discover that it was fucking rank piss. Furthermore it cost three pounds fifty. Absolutely raging but I drank it all. It grew on me as it went on but not to the extent I was pleased to have spent three pounds fifty. It was 8% though so I did get a good buzz going and began to annoy my wife with ‘funny’ ‘banter’.

I also had Your Joke is Factually Inaccurate, a Schwarzbier from Boundary with a terrible name but a lovely taste. Roasty, malty, nice as fuck. That’s my limit of beer describing.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 24, 2020, 11:32:34 PM
I don't rate Salt beer factory as a stand out brewer, their stuff I have tried tastes by-the-numbers and seems bandwagon jumping in terms of their offer. The Ikat has a very high rating on Untappd. I expect most double dry hopped India pale ales will not be up your street then.

I will always try a Schwarzbier, will keep a look out for that one.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 25, 2020, 07:32:59 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/WDWPLjD/20200525-193022.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YD7yxwD)

This is lovely. Got it from Sainsbury's. Lots and lots of banana but a lovely tang to it, as well. Bread and butter. Really delicious, moreish. Very fucking nice.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 25, 2020, 09:04:04 PM
Love that shit. Delicious.

Shoulders I think you are probably right about the DDH DIPA. Didn't really get the tropical taste from it. Not averse to trying another but I won't go out of my way for it.

Got a bottle of Heverlee from Tesco. Nice lager. I see it is made by Tennents. Lovely.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 25, 2020, 09:28:12 PM
Probably one of my first posts on the first Beer thread was about Weihenstephaner hefeweissbier. One that deserves to be called a classic.

In January I visited their brewery in Freising. Can strongly recommend it if you're visiting Munich as it's close to the airport, though the general standard of the beer on tap and in bottles is so good there was not dramatic increase in quality or anything (the main noticable difference was that the weizenbock Vitus was better).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 26, 2020, 01:22:18 PM
11 of the 60 kellerbiers left :(

Aim for it was to last 3-4 weeks which I will have done by this pay day but still sad about box getting emptier and emptier.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 26, 2020, 03:55:55 PM
Today, I'm actually out of beers. I have a massive quandary.

Do I go to Sainsbury's and buy their remaining Weihenstephaner hefeweissbiers - given that there were only a couple left yesterday - or do they I go to the bottle shop and gamble on there being some more Schneider Weisse in?

That's pretty much all I want to drink in this weather and I want a lot of them 🍻
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on May 26, 2020, 04:05:09 PM
Both..?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 26, 2020, 04:08:43 PM
Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff was least impressive of the 10 when I got through the first round, but it's been growing on me ever since.

Sure it's a pleasant drinkable lager to start with but towards the end of the glass you pick up a moreishness as its residual flavour (which is like a liquid equivalent of perfectly golden toasty fresh bread) lingers in your mouth. This is the kind of brewing where people have put thought into how to build beer with a flavour profile where you want another, then another. This is the opposite to how craft brewing has come to work where everything humanly possible is devoted to first impressions and small portions. Culturally people are moving towards having a different beer each time. Enjoyable to explore (and for me preferable with strong beer) but this is the sort of beer I could knock back several of in the right setting enjoy just as much and not give a single fuck whether I missed out on some other beer they offered. This ought to be the benchmark of the sort of lager we are offered in pubs. Everyone would develop a different opinion of the stuff.

(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_03_01/71654fa658d35286d00bc30b8e449dc7_640x640.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 26, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
I think that's a really interesting post. Typically, historically, if I go to the pub, I'm 'on' whatever for the night, maybe with the odd switch if my mate recommends something or if my choice is a bit off. In recent years, I've felt inclined to try something different every pint. Marshmallow stout, rhubarb crumble IPA, fanny batter porter. And I do like that, to be honest. I enjoy the variety and the chat, I enjoy sharing sips and discussing it like a bunch of big gays. I enjoy my mate spitting beer in my face and hardwanking in the bogs. Licking pale ale off each other's gooch and writing tasting notes. Shitting a full cack into a pint of mild.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on May 26, 2020, 08:31:08 PM
Right lads, thanks to this thread I just cycled up to Beer Ritz and looked confusedly at the Belgian section and now have a Tripel Karmeliet in the fridge. 8.2%, apparently.

Have I chosen wisely? Got a nice tin of Arbor to take the taste away if I don't like it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 26, 2020, 08:49:33 PM
I'm sure that'll be a cracker. Might take you a little to get past the alcohol volume at first but take your time and see how it opens up.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 26, 2020, 08:49:55 PM
Right lads, thanks to this thread I just cycled up to Beer Ritz and looked confusedly at the Belgian section and now have a Tripel Karmeliet in the fridge. 8.2%, apparently.

Have I chosen wisely? Got a nice tin of Arbor to take the taste away if I don't like it.

Tripel Karmeliet is a very nice beer.

I didn't realise Beer Ritz was open?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on May 26, 2020, 09:01:07 PM
Tripel Karmeliet is a very nice beer.

I didn't realise Beer Ritz was open?

Yeah, they re-opened last Thursday. Stock was noticeably limited, especially local brewers which is understandable as they're nearly all doing their own distribution now.

OK, I'm going in. Very lively on the pour, but that could be from the biking. I'm drinking it from my partner's Duchess de Bourgogne glass, for, er, authenticity.

Right, very different to what I normally drink, and very different to the supermarket Belgian stuff I've had like Leffe.

I'm sure that'll be a cracker. Might take you a little to get past the alcohol volume at first but take your time and see how it opens up.

Doesn't taste 8.2%. There's no 'hint of Special Brew' like you get with some of the very strong craft stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on May 26, 2020, 09:28:54 PM
This is not a beer for swigging, is it? I guess I'm probably about half way in to it, it's like a double full English breakfast or something, plenty behind it which I didn't really appreciate at the beginning.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: sardines on May 26, 2020, 09:31:45 PM
Tripel Karmeliet is my summer beer. As mentioned, dangerously drinkable.
There is a shit bar here with a lovely terrace which serves it on tap.  Start at 4pm in the sun, bed by 8. Lovely stuff.

I once saw an Irish bar in Brussels serve it in pints as the monthly special to the usual stag crowd. Shame I didn't hang around to see how that one ended.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 26, 2020, 09:37:11 PM
King_tubby

I generally find that a lot of beer gets more bland and watery the more you drink but a good dubbel, tripel or quad actually gets better over half an hour or even double that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DocDaneeka on May 26, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Currently having a winter Leffe which I got in a Beerhawk delivery with other random stuff, pretty nice but kinda just tastes like a Leffe to me.

In the same box I had a Hertog Jan Grand Prestige which was lovely but you could taste the alcohol at 10%.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 26, 2020, 10:42:29 PM
The Hertog Jan is a Barleywine- I remember the booziness too. Took me nearly an hour to finish. An hour to get through 300ml.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 27, 2020, 04:51:17 PM
Decided to check out BeerHawk, thanks lads. Ordered me some of the black stuff:

(https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/media/catalog/product/optimized/5/c/5cda3cf56ae79516264964ade3ac21c19b91283169b7341d95f7baf8cdf67289/porters_stouts_reshoot.png)

Brew York Tonkoko
Tiny Rebel Stay Puft
Anchor Porter
BrewDog Zombie Cake
Wild Beer Millionaire
Thornbridge Cocoa Wonderland
Magic Rock Dark Arts
Siren Broken Dream
Stewart Cauld Reekie
Wiper and True Milkshake
Fourpure Oatmeal Stout
Saltaire No. 5

Tonkoko is bloody lovely if I recall. Bit o'tonka plus vanilla, coconut and chocolate. Should be overkill but isn't.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 27, 2020, 04:57:14 PM
The anchor porter is very nice, roasty and that. Anchor have stopped exporting to Ontario for some mad reason - I will blame the conservative provincial government.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 27, 2020, 05:00:32 PM
Tonkoko is awesome. I tried to get it from my usual guy but it's flown off the shelf as soon as he's got it in.

That Magic Rock Dark Arts is equally good, really nutty and chocolatey. Very nice stuff. I had one last night, blimmin lovely.

I've had the Tiny Rebel, as well. Tastes as you'd expect from the description, which I can't fault!

I'm currently sipping on a Westmalle Dubbel, I'd say it's one of the great beers of my life having now enjoyed a good dozen or so. Everything from Christmas spices to biscuity bite and some sherry fruit, and yet still very drinkable and refreshing. Outstanding.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 27, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
Anchor is indeed very nice. I've tried most of these before but I liked 'em so that's why I got' em.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 27, 2020, 05:27:45 PM
Sorry if that read as telling you something you didn't already know, BJ. I'll keep an eye out for the Anchor, can't remember what else I've had by them but something very nice.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 27, 2020, 05:32:54 PM
No worries Bosto, I was actually replying to Ferris when you hit reply first, and tasting notes are always welcome.

Thanks for the matcha green tea recommendations btw, not sure I thanked you before!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 27, 2020, 06:12:08 PM
Anchor is indeed very nice. I've tried most of these before but I liked 'em so that's why I got' em.

They have a really solid core range.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 27, 2020, 06:43:14 PM
Quote
I'm currently sipping on a Westmalle Dubbel, I'd say it's one of the great beers of my life having now enjoyed a good dozen or so.

Charting the development from your warm to luke warm first impression a few weeks back, that's interesting to read. I' m not surprised either. There's a landing strip that Westmalle Dubbel hits in your mouth and just keeps hitting bob on throughout the course of the drink. One of those beers that can be enjoyed in 15 minutes or across an hour.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 27, 2020, 07:06:34 PM
Yeah, definitely seemed a bit light/insubstantial when I first tried it but that was on the back of really falling for the Rochefort 10, Barnardo 1, Chimay Blue and Straffe Hendrik Quad. By the time I got a couple more and had it alongside some Wit/Weisse etc, it really started to click. Depending on mood and how quickly I drink it - as you say - I get such a range of flavours from it. Seriously good stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 27, 2020, 11:15:58 PM
Just finished the last Hutten Zoigl and Hetzelsdorfer Bier.

I've never been good at dealing with endings and goodbyes. There's a scene from Metropolitan (1990) where all the self-absorbed nouveau riche socialites meet up towards the finale of the film in their favourite niche of their favourite bar, knowing that their time together is about to end for good. The way the scene is shot is amazing. There are a couple (though it focuses on one character) who are genuinely struck by it. For them the high point of it all was the experience and the camaraderie. They can't deal with it - and they are left for dust. Almost immediately they become sadcases and loners. For the others, it was just a phase of their life, they shrug it off like it was nothing.

Beautiful to have known you beers.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Viero_Berlotti on May 28, 2020, 12:33:13 AM
French beer.

Are there any really good French beers I'm missing out on? Most French beer I've had is either at best bang average or at worst undrinkable.

It's mad really considering they neighbour the joint world masters of good beer, Belgium and Germany.

Why is French beer so poor/average? And why do they seem to think adding orange flavouring to beer is a great thing to do?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 28, 2020, 07:48:13 AM
There are some traditional saison/farmhouse ale producers near the Belgian border that are apparently good. It's not my favourite style usually so can't think of them off the top of my head. Brasserie du pay Flamand is one.

La Goudale is available in Morrisons. It is a Biere de Garde, one of the few styles the French call their own. A bit like a Triple/Strong Blonde. Local blonde ales and ambrees are worth exploring, especially across Brittany and Normandy.

When Saveur Biere did UK shipping I got in a load of French beers in 750ml form. They were a step down from Belgian ale to be perfectly honest, but still pleasant.

Quote
Why is French beer so poor/average?

Outside of the Northern regions and Alsace/Lorraine it has more in common with Italy, Spain, Greece. Wine is dominant culturally and new brewing has been strangled by corporate might. The audience for anything outside of lager is niche, or at least was until recently, a further disincentive for new brewers up until the craft movement started, where suddenly there was a lot of money coming around and some bandwagon jumpers getting involved.

If you are looking for beer bars in France they commonly lean heavily on Belgian beer and Belgian pubs, rather like the Dutch do.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 28, 2020, 12:13:09 PM
Popped down to Beer Ritz. They are down on stock but looks like some German beers had just arrived.

Forgot how expensive it is in there now. Some downright piss takers as well, £4.70 for a Delerium. Some mind-boggling - £4.15 and £2.70 for Westmalle Tripel and Budvar. On sale for £2.50 and £1.54 respectively at Morrisons.

All the same, I picked up 2 Saison Duponts, 2 Bruges Zot and 2 Tynt Meadow
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 28, 2020, 12:30:16 PM
Outside of the Northern regions and Alsace/Lorraine it has more in common with Italy, Spain, Greece. Wine is dominant culturally

Grape belt, hop belt, grain belt innit? That's why you get wine in Spain and Portugal and France, beer in Germany, Belgium and the UK, and vodka in Poland and Russia. It's all about the climate, what you can grow, and the culture based around what you can ferment from it. That's booze sociology for you.

I guess the UK is also a microcosm of the belts, with English wine produced in the south, beer throughout most of the country, and whisky in the Scottish Highlands.

Also spirits are probably more popular up north because the colder it gets the more pissed you need to get to keep warm and not go mad.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on May 28, 2020, 12:42:37 PM
Popped down to Beer Ritz. They are down on stock but looks like some German beers had just arrived.

Forgot how expensive it is in there now. Some downright piss takers as well, £4.70 for a Delerium. Some mind-boggling - £4.15 and £2.70 for Westmalle Tripel and Budvar. On sale for £2.50 and £1.54 respectively at Morrisons.

All the same, I picked up 2 Saison Duponts, 2 Bruges Zot and 2 Tynt Meadow

Yes, I think places like this are going to have to seriously look at their business models. The can of Arbor I had the other night was 4 quid, and very nice it was too, but when Kirkstall Brewery will deliver 36 cans to my door for 50 pounds, trips to Beer Ritz or Village Liquor are going to be novelties rather than regular.

I'm guessing it'll be the same with you as you're now ordering directly from Belgian and Czech suppliers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 28, 2020, 12:55:17 PM
How does Tynt Meadow compare with the Belgian Trappist brews? One of the pubs round here sells it but I don't think they're offering that one with their take-out service.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 28, 2020, 01:15:17 PM
Was a bit of chat about the Tynt Meadow the other week. Mixed reviews I'd say but it's well worth a try. It's very clovey and liquoricey and medicinal, but I'm tempted to get a few more to see how I like it now. It's definitely its own thing rather than a shit tier Chimay which is what I'd expected. It depends on your tolerance for herbal Christmassy spicing, I reckon.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 28, 2020, 01:47:45 PM
Blue Jam - I think it's very nice. A deliberate attempt to brew a Belgian strong dark ale but with some English strong ale character. The maltiness is certainly different from Belgian beer but it still has the rich smoothness. Worth trying as it's not really like anything else you could easily find.

It's difficult to honestly compare but it holds its own among the Trappist range.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 28, 2020, 09:45:26 PM
Feels dirty running down a legendary brewery and one that did so much to open my eyes to the beer world but the Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier I had earlier and - to be fair - enjoyed, was not a patch on the flavour found in this Reckendorfer Kellerbier. Yes, it isn't comparing apples with applies but even so, I genuinely don't think I'll look at a lot of my former favourites in the same way since this Franconia exploration. Just the standard of them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on May 29, 2020, 03:01:07 AM
French beer.

Are there any really good French beers I'm missing out on? Most French beer I've had is either at best bang average or at worst undrinkable.

It's mad really considering they neighbour the joint world masters of good beer, Belgium and Germany.

Why is French beer so poor/average? And why do they seem to think adding orange flavouring to beer is a great thing to do?

I spent the summer in France three years ago maybe and visited Nantes in February. Nantes was very beer friendly and there were at least half a dozen bars where you could get really good stuff. Le Sur Mesure was probably the best and from memory yes it is mainly a mix of craft and Beligians (I remember drinking Kasteel Rouge on draft if that is a starting point).

As for breweries my experience 3 years ago was that the craft scene was still much more localised and tended to focus on producing the classic/basic craft beers without any fuss. An IPA, a porter, an imperial stout, a pale ale etc.

Lyon has Ninkasi which seems to be very aggresive in it's branding as young and trendy and they had plenty of their own bars. La Canute had a range named after different parts of the city. Can't remember much more but Toulouse and Montpellier definitely had a few microbreweries that you could visit and drink on site. My memories of all of it was everything was very nice (nothing remarkable enough to recommend 3 years later) and the french are beer mad. The very worst you will find is some grotty, friendly bar selling loads of perfectly great belgians. In fact, the Irish pubs in Nantes all had decent enough fridges now I think of it.

Also it is expensive. I am sure 6 euros for a half was perfectly normal and I went from France to Berlin to see friends and the 2 euro bottles of Augustineer Helles was a welcome relief to my wallet.

So yeah. France. Beer. In the bigger cities it is definitely a huge deal.

Oh and whilst my French has come on loads recently don't do what I did and ask for an "EE PAY AH". You will get rightly laughed out of the place*. They say "EYE PEE AYE" like what we do. And you can order a pint but it is "pant" and not "peent" but only do that in Irish pubs or places that sell stuff in pints (and if you have 12 euros to spend). God, I can't wait to go back. Love it.

*And then warmly welcomed back in to spend money and be comforted by friendly locals and staff that to make an effort with the language is appreciated. I steered clear of ordering pale ales after that though as couldn't bring myself to say it in a bit of a french accent. :)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 29, 2020, 12:23:55 PM
BeerHawk order arrived, contents aren't quite the same as listed- do they often do this when some beers are out of stock?

I'm not complaining though, they've replaced some beers I've had before with some interesting-looking ones I've never tried. Saltaire Triple Choc sounds like it'll be a treat and I've got Magic Rock's Dark Arts Surreal Stout in both the original and Hazlenut editions.

No Tonkoko though :(
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: ImmaculateClump on May 29, 2020, 02:10:52 PM
I was watching a rerun of the chase the other day and Bradley was like "here, dickhead, trappist red cap, fucks that then?"
and yer man was giving it all "errrr, m-m-m-mushroom?"
and I scoffed with contempt, "nice try, old timer. It's one of them smelly beers"
and I got it right! I'd like to thank all you middle aged old soaks for my brief moment in the sun.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 29, 2020, 05:42:16 PM
BeerHawk order arrived, contents aren't quite the same as listed- do they often do this when some beers are out of stock?

I'm not complaining though, they've replaced some beers I've had before with some interesting-looking ones I've never tried. Saltaire Triple Choc sounds like it'll be a treat and I've got Magic Rock's Dark Arts Surreal Stout in both the original and Hazlenut editions.

No Tonkoko though :(

Some set packages have an asterisk indicating they may vary depending on stock. I wonder if it is part of their business model to tempt people in with a few headline beers then subtract them for ones with a better margin. Maybe too conspiratorial.

Have had to cancel my order from Czech Beer Gifts/Pivni Darky. Half of my order wasn't in stock or just wasn't available any more and some they stated they were getting in this week hadn't arrived with them in their estimated time. Shambles.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 29, 2020, 09:13:05 PM
Just polished off my last Cloudwater Pale Ale. Really enjoyed it. I expected to like the lager and the helles more as that’s usually my sort of thing but this was just what I needed at the end of a hot day.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blinder Data on May 29, 2020, 11:28:38 PM
You know what? The red cans of Feldschlößchen you get in ASDA are not bad

Been mixing it with a touch of cloudy lemonade on hot days. Lovely stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Smeraldina Rima on May 31, 2020, 02:36:22 AM
My sixteen beers from Beerwulf arrived. St Barnardo's Tripel is too similar to Blue Moon for my taste; was nice with a curry though. Preferred the Tripel D'Anvers and the Affligem Dubbel. Also bought some lagers from ASDA including Warsteiner which is alright.

Will most tripels be blonde and dubbels brown?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on May 31, 2020, 08:52:41 AM
St Barnardo's Tripel is too similar to Blue Moon for my taste;

Waaaaat. This isn't a comparison that had ever sprung to mind and I hold you responsible if you have ruined this delicious beer for me. Blue Moon came up at work last week and I tried to disguise my pleading with them as a suggestion to make the small large sideways diagonal step to investing in a bottle of hoegarrden and not putting a fruit salad in it
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 31, 2020, 09:00:31 AM
Quote
Will most tripels be blonde and dubbels brown?

Yes. At most a Tripel might be light brown. A Dubbel is a brown beer.

Comparing Bernardus Tripel to Blue Moon is a strange one but if that's your nearest reference there you go.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Smeraldina Rima on May 31, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
Waaaaat. This isn't a comparison that had ever sprung to mind and I hold you responsible if you have ruined this delicious beer for me. Blue Moon came up at work last week and I tried to disguise my pleading with them as a suggestion to make the small large sideways diagonal step to investing in a bottle of hoegarrden and not putting a fruit salad in it

Sorry. It's like when someone compared my Schneider Weisse to baked beans, possibly a less ignorant comparison.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 31, 2020, 08:16:30 PM
Beers of Europe has already been raided for the new German stock, I see. Just had a look and all the interesting ones I may have bought have gone.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 31, 2020, 09:51:52 PM
New review

Aufsesser Zwickl (Zwicklbier, 4.8%) - ****

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRApyjs1U8PhqU2gWStujjjK6nRw0_pwXUOjN4OcNy4r5_8_caj&usqp=CAU)

Another unfiltered kellerbier, the colour of caramel - less red than the above picture. There are Munich, Vienna and Plzen malts in here with Spalter hops. That distinct tang you get from unfined lager is really present here, almost Czech style in character but not quite. It really lingers nicely. Beautiful flavor, a hint of 'funk' ie, saison/farmhouse ale notes, which I suppose isn't unusual given its a small-time operation (something reinforced by the faded logo on the cap of the swingtop, which has clearly been heavily recycled).

There you are then. Some biscuity kellerbier flavour upfront, an unusual farmhousey type flavour in the mouth and then a big lingering unfiltered tang at the end.

Take a look at the setting of their operations: https://brauereigasthof-rothenbach.de/
An impossibly quaint little hamlet of Aufsess, replete with Schloss, Residenz, kirche, fachwerk houses and riverside brewery. Deep in the centre of Germany's brewing heartlands, 15 miles east of Bamberg.

The kellerbiers are almost gone now (1 left), and after deliberation this one ended up being my favourite. It was a fair contest as I had 6 bottles of each, so got to know them fairly well. I was trying not to go ott in the reviewing but I would upgrade this to a 4.5 or 4.75/5.

So many flavours are here people enjoy about totally different kind of beers. It has the thick cloudiness of wheat beer, it has the nutty and hoppy satisfaction of English bitter, it has the rounded malt of a Rochefort 6, it has the farmhousey funk you'd expect from a small brewer making unfiltered beer via a trad method and it has the utter refreshment and delivery of lager (it is a lager, after all).

Above all, it's just so fresh. It tastes like you'd imagine it does out of the barrel. This is a cornerstone of beer for me, right here. This is as important for Germany as good bitter is for the UK.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on May 31, 2020, 10:02:05 PM
It sounds superb. Any suggestions for reasonable UK delivery? Sorry I'm being lazy about scrolling back to find the original mention of your order.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on May 31, 2020, 10:23:51 PM
I bought it from

https://www.hier-gibts-bier.de/en/beer-from-franconia-bavaria/cellar-beer/

These guys specialise in Franconian beers. There are several brewing heartlands in Germany but none has respected tradition and quality as much as Franconia, northern Bavaria which offers the most variety and generally speaking highest quality. The above is the Kellerbier section but they also do light lagers, pils, dark beer and smoked beer. Shipping is costlier than some, so for example, my order averaged out at £3.25 a bottle, all told. Pricier than the Belgian order but I guess not something a craft beer fan would get too fussed about. You also get 500ml so going £/ml it isn't that much different.

N.B - also be careful to check the shipping costs section as some quantities are significantly poorer value than others
Quote
up to 6 kg 15,00 €
up to 12 kg 20,00 €
up to 18 kg 35,00 €
up to 24 kg 40,00 €
up to 30 kg 55,00 €
up to 36 kg 60,00 €
up to 42 kg 75,00 €
up to 48 kg 80,00 €
up to 54 kg 95,00 €
up to 60 kg 100,00 €
up to 66 kg 115,00 €
up to 72 kg 120,00 €
up to 78 kg 135,00 €
up to 84 kg 140,00 €
up to 90 kg 155,00 €
up to 96 kg 160,00 €

A bottle is a kg for these purposes. You can see from there, big jumps at points... why would anyone order 42 when its only 5 euro extra for 48. That's to do with the box size.

None of the 10 I ordered were disappointing. They weren't all what I expected though either. One was slightly smokey, some were quality lagers rather than stereotypical cloudy 'kellerbier'. They were all interesting or highly drinkable in their own ways. Earthy, 'alive', no bullshit or gimmicks either, just traditional untampered methods evidently made with love and care. They aren't anything like what you'll have encountered so far.

In fact was only stepping back yesterday to a staple beer I loved, Weihenstephaner Hefe, that I realised that at least 4 of the 10 were not just better but kicking the living shit out of it.

I can especially recommend Hutten Zoigl, Aufsesser Zwickl, Goller Kellerbier, Flechterla Zwickl.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on May 31, 2020, 11:12:14 PM
On this now:

(https://www.magicrockbrewing.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/DA-HAZELNUT-01-1-768x767.png)

Like a hazlenut ice cream sundae. Fucking exceptional.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Abnormal Palm on June 01, 2020, 04:58:19 AM
Love that stuff.

And cheers, Shoulders. That was the site I'd been checking so I guess I'll have to make a significant order and work out the best shipping value. Well up for what you've described.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: TrenterPercenter on June 01, 2020, 02:46:20 PM
I'm going to shamelessly plug two excellent local breweries in Birmingham that are great (local Brummies will know them well) as they have now started doing national deliveries.

https://digbrewco.com (https://digbrewco.com)
 
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0029/1697/4636/products/JOLLY_1728x.jpg?v=1586530862)

https://atticbrewco.com (https://atticbrewco.com)

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0354/3053/1208/products/DSC_0422_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1589279383)

Also though not beer going to plug another local business.  They only deliver in the area so just for any locals but trust me the curries and sundries they make themselves (as they wholesale handle some other stuff) are incredible and go fantastically with a beer : ).  I really didn't think you could get a decent authentic frozen curry but they prove it is possible.

https://spicetime.myshopify.com (https://spicetime.myshopify.com)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0357/6407/6682/products/LKcopy_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1587124196)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 01, 2020, 08:47:05 PM
I like the add on of 'Lager' to Kolsch on the can. I wonder how much extra business they think they get and how much extra business they actually get through advertising that (technically inaccurate (https://insidethecraft.com/kolsch-ale-lager/)*) distinction.

I'm not trying to insinuate anything, I am genuinely curious as to what anyone who hasn't been to Cologne and isn't a beer geek thinks is 'Kolsch' other than perhaps 'some German beer'. A lot of English brewed Kolsch I have tried is way-off (Including hideously one time, a cask Kolsch).


*If we're getting fussy, it's an ale that's been lagered, so the can should read "Kolsch Ale" or "Kolsch-style Lagered Ale".

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: TrenterPercenter on June 06, 2020, 12:23:57 PM
I like the add on of 'Lager' to Kolsch on the can. I wonder how much extra business they think they get and how much extra business they actually get through advertising that (technically inaccurate (https://insidethecraft.com/kolsch-ale-lager/)*) distinction.

I'm not trying to insinuate anything, I am genuinely curious as to what anyone who hasn't been to Cologne and isn't a beer geek thinks is 'Kolsch' other than perhaps 'some German beer'. A lot of English brewed Kolsch I have tried is way-off (Including hideously one time, a cask Kolsch).


*If we're getting fussy, it's an ale that's been lagered, so the can should read "Kolsch Ale" or "Kolsch-style Lagered Ale".

I didn't know the specifics about Cologne, though makes sense now, i just presumed it was a style, like Vienna.  They are quite nice  though the Kolsch ones.

But I would urge you to have a go on the digbrew ones.  Not sure if it is your kindof thing Shoulders but the IPAs and DIPAs imo albeit humble opinion are excellent, creamy and complex without just being an exercise in over hoppiness.  They are a tad expensive.  To get the free shipping (which is £6.50!! even for locals) you need to spend £45 so my order worked out at about £3.30 a bottle for 13 + one free beer they give you (but these are 330ml bottles). However at 6-8% abv you don't need much (well I don't anyway).  Not sure on the lagers they do I think it is the IPAs etc that are the things really worth bothering with.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 06, 2020, 12:46:03 PM
I will keep a lookout, cheers. The price is about the top end of what I'd pay to drink at home, but can't argue as I have just spent that sum per bottle on German beer.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 07, 2020, 09:09:26 PM
(https://dydza6t6xitx6.cloudfront.net/ci-augustiner-brau-helles-cb99a56391423c74.jpeg)

Picked up a few of these during the warm weather. I don't really like lager but I enjoyed them a lot. I am actually looking forward to the sunshine coming back and getting a case of these in. Actually has a tasty finish rather than the puke tier acrid anus dirt I normally associate with lager.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on June 07, 2020, 09:52:26 PM
Went for a long walk today and was delighted to see that the Dogbridge Stockbridge Tap was open and selling some interesting cans. Just had one of these:

(https://www.eebriatrade.com/media/products/24565/20200220121158862/450x450.jpg)

Didn't realise it was 11% ABV until I got it home, fucking hell. Not easy drinking thankfully, just sipped on it for an hour with a glass of water on the side. Very nice.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on June 07, 2020, 11:53:28 PM
Has anyone noticed beers changing during the global fuckdown? I’ve noticed a cloudy IPA I quite like has changed quite markedly - I’d swear it was a different beer. Must be the supply chain changing
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on June 08, 2020, 08:25:08 AM
Yeah, but only from a brewery that is pretty much one guy brewing in a lock up.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on June 08, 2020, 09:59:12 AM
(https://dydza6t6xitx6.cloudfront.net/ci-augustiner-brau-helles-cb99a56391423c74.jpeg)

Picked up a few of these during the warm weather. I don't really like lager but I enjoyed them a lot. I am actually looking forward to the sunshine coming back and getting a case of these in. Actually has a tasty finish rather than the puke tier acrid anus dirt I normally associate with lager.

Got a big case of these from web-bier.de a little while ago.

Just a delicious, light drop. Perfect example of the style. Made another order and ended up trying a bunch of other helles lager and nothing touches it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 08, 2020, 08:41:01 PM
It is a style defining beer, really. I have had a few better Helles style, Sonne Urtyp Hell, Andechser Vollbier are the ones that immediately spring to mind. Some Franconian ones you can't get over here so would be pointless recommending.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 08, 2020, 09:11:30 PM
Nothin beats a wife beater let's face it
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: ImmaculateClump on June 09, 2020, 06:07:35 AM
The lagerbier hell subgenre. The lad on that black label looks like he's giving a wink mid-scoop surrounded by all those lovely medals. Waifu for laifu!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 09, 2020, 08:40:35 AM
There's probably a 99.9% that there exists a bullet hell-themed IPA in a garish can covered the in pink dots.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 09, 2020, 01:04:19 PM
(https://bier-scout.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/IMG_4790-e1521932920338-400x600.jpg)

Schubel Nordeck-Trunk (4.9% Kellerbier) - ****

Another several boxes of Franconian beers from Hier Gibts Bier (http://hier-gibts-bier.de) arrived last night and this means more reviews! This kellerbier has a traditional colour for its style - golden, straw like hues and unfiltered. The first sip is quite zingy and familiar to any lager drinkers, but the flavour balance emerges when the carbonation settles down. It's pale, super-fresh (especially if you get your nose in there and take in the aroma) with an almost herb-like element in the aftertaste. On a hot day served in a steinkrug on the patio of some Franconian .com/glossary/#B]bierstube (https://[SPAM - REMOVED) this would be manna from heaven.

The beer really shows the wide range that comes under the umbrella of 'kellerbier'. Much as casual English bitter drinkers would regard cask pale and cask best bitter as being part of the same thing, I guess. Some are brown and caramelly nutty, this is pale lightly zingy and herby with faint lime notes. There is a distinctive tang to unfiltered lager and this brewery has played with it with a dab of bitter citric hops to produce a beer that balances deftly on a tightrope between the two rather different flavours. The subtle evolution from first drop to last makes it a more interesting beer than first appears.

If you slapped the right looking label on this, called it a pale and supposed that it came from a fashionable enough brewery, people would rave about it (thinking about the good on its day but nowt special Taras Boulba from Brasserie De La Senne which annoyingly is many craft fans favourite Belgian beer - seriously).

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 09, 2020, 09:13:04 PM
(https://www.biermap24.de/img/gradl1.jpg)

Brauerei Gradl - Leupser Dunkel (4.9% Munich Dunkel) - *** and a half

Leups, a hamlet south east of Pegnitz is about the heart of the heart of the heart of German brewing, in what's sometimes called 'Frankish Switzerland'. I picked up their Dunkel, though looking at Untappd and Google maps, they appear to have a great reputation in general.

As you can see from the picture the colour is more dark brown with a few reddish ruby tints. Munich Dunkel can be nearly black and the style is often mild and smooth. The warm chocolatey aroma here suggests so too, but nein - flavours are the other end of the spectrum. It's tastes roasted, but the coffee flavours you think ought to be there aren't. Nuts, wholemeal bread perhaps. There's a stiff malt backing and dry bitterness.  This is a beer you'd want on a dreak autumnal evening in a cosy pub. The flavour lingers on your tongue a while before it slides away. In some respects it is similar to English bitter yet in just as many other ways not. For 4.9% you get powerful and reasonably complex flavour for your buck here.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 09, 2020, 09:45:41 PM
(https://www.brauerei-kundmueller.de/site/assets/files/1125/weiherer-bio-zwickerla.jpg)

Weiherer Bio Zwickerla Dunkel (5.4% Dunkel Zwickl??) - *****

A new one on me. A zwickl (ie. kellerbier) with Dunkel characteristics sounds fantastic and this is.

If anyone has tried Rochefort 6 this has the same reddish brown look to it. More red and more brown than the above picture. The flavour is of course a tad milder than a 7% trappist ale, but you can pick up similar notes. It's cloudy and thick, the foam remains in place which is quite impressive for a bottled lager.

There is a mild refreshing hop hit, while the aftertaste delivers all those beautiful kellerbier flavours, herbal, earthy yet fresh and light. But the additional malt and extra 0.5% strength gives this something extra. There are almost red berry elements at work inside the rich wheaty unfilteredness, which is fucking mad. Small batch, farmhouse type brewing delivers on weirdness without needing any gimmicks.

I've done a poor job attempting to describe this, it's beyond my abilities to describe. It's absolutely wonderful. Up there with the Aufsesser Zwickl (https://www.hier-gibts-bier.de/en/aufsesser-zwickl.html) in the last batch. Despite the bottle format you could easily imagine beer this thick and fresh coming straight vom fass.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 10, 2020, 09:48:32 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/2f8dea6c-256d-11e9-b329-c7e6ceb5ffdf

Worth thinking about macro brewing in Africa and other developing regions while Black Lives Matters are at the forefront.

Large corporations exploiting easily corrupted and poorly regulated nations? Nah would they do such a thing? Apparently.

Where possible try and drink from independents. Heineken, SABMiller AbInBev etc may have a few subsidiaries that brew beers I like but these can largely be avoided.

And if that doesn't put you off, Trump himself has commercial interests in macros.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heineken_brands#Subsidiaries'_brands
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 10, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
(https://bier-scout.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/IMG_4790-e1521932920338-400x600.jpg)

Schubel Nordeck-Trunk (4.9% Kellerbier) - ****

Another several boxes of Franconian beers from Hier Gibts Bier (http://hier-gibts-bier.de) arrived last night and this means more reviews! This kellerbier has a traditional colour for its style - golden, straw like hues and unfiltered. The first sip is quite zingy and familiar to any lager drinkers, but the flavour balance emerges when the carbonation settles down. It's pale, super-fresh (especially if you get your nose in there and take in the aroma) with an almost herb-like element in the aftertaste. On a hot day served in a steinkrug on the patio of some Franconian .com/glossary/#B]bierstube (https://[SPAM - REMOVED) this would be manna from heaven.

The beer really shows the wide range that comes under the umbrella of 'kellerbier'. Much as casual English bitter drinkers would regard cask pale and cask best bitter as being part of the same thing, I guess. Some are brown and caramelly nutty, this is pale lightly zingy and herby with faint lime notes. There is a distinctive tang to unfiltered lager and this brewery has played with it with a dab of bitter citric hops to produce a beer that balances deftly on a tightrope between the two rather different flavours. The subtle evolution from first drop to last makes it a more interesting beer than first appears.

If you slapped the right looking label on this, called it a pale and supposed that it came from a fashionable enough brewery, people would rave about it (thinking about the good on its day but nowt special Taras Boulba from Brasserie De La Senne which annoyingly is many craft fans favourite Belgian beer - seriously).

This looks delicious. I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have a lot of catching up to do on all this great stuff. New job stymieying time and energy to do the lot right now, so if you could recommend names of a few of the more summery beers you've had recently to get me started that would be great. Anything that drinks well enough at a cool temperature and isn't wasted on the quaffer. Is Hier Gibts Bier the place if I'm ordering a couple of boxes? Not too concerned by value.

I'll come back and read posts in full for my second order. How long do deliveries take at the moment?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 10, 2020, 01:33:17 PM
Both shipments from Hier Gibt Bier arrived within a week of order. They used 2 different couriers each time, GLS and Hermes but both arrived in good condition.

Value averages out between £3.25-£3.40 a bottle which I have deemed in my own head to be reasonable. By comparison I was directed to a Dutch site and they were selling craft at mainly £6+ a bottle from an actual online bottleshop. The stuff was incomparable of course but it did make me feel better.

Several of the kellerbiers are brown lagers really so they have autumnal type flavours. I wouldn't rule out trying them, some are utterly fabulous like that Weiherer above. The lighter ones I have tried - in order of quality - were: the above, Aufsesser Zwickl, Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff, Goller Kellerbier, Krug Brau Urstoff, Hubner Vollbier. My latest batch has a wider range so I have dunkels, rauchs, bocks, wheat beer etc.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 10, 2020, 01:45:30 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ci6Wpw9WgAAhsoI.jpg)

(Paul) Puttner Zoigl (5.2%, Zoiglbier) *** and a half

Zoiglbier - in case you fell asleep at the back, Zoigl is not traditionally a commercial brew bottled and sold to the masses. It's a highly localised traditional way of brewing and enjoying beer. Zoigl refers to the cultural tradition rather than any rigidly defined style (though there are parameters obviously). In short, in small towns families use municipal breweries on a rotational basis. When the beer is ready they open their own houses to invite the village round for dinner and beers. They hang the zoigl star (identical to the star of David, as it happens). The antithesis of commercialism. Of course they are paid for this, though the beers are generally sold at a fraction of normal costs.

(One of the historical quirks is that even during the Nazi era the use of the star of David by brewing families is still visible on photographs around Franconia, some of which are the same areas which were deeply attracted by the arch-regressive ruritanial idyll presented by the Nazi party. They probably avoided inadvertent trouble simply by already being known across the town).

In recent years the remaining dozen or so Zoigl towns in the Oberpfalz region have become somewhat of a tourist destination which both ensures their survival and expands people's knowledge of the tradition. Some breweries have piggybacked on this by brewing zoigl, which in effect is them pretending to brew what they would brew if they were involved in stuff like that.

Puttner is a brewery in a village only a little westwards of Neustadt, one of the Zoiglburgs.

The beer: This Zoigl is copper coloured and fairly clear. The sort of colour you'd expect from an English bitter. They have gone for a kind of mid-range moreishness. This isn't a beer with a lot of complexity but it has a repeatedly nice flavour which is delivered over and over without getting boring.

There's a hint of sweetness, mild honey and toffee which is rendered bittersweet by a lovely crisp and persistent enough hoppy finish. The hops are a little aromatic so there are distinct kellerbier flavours in the aftertaste. And so it goes each time.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 11, 2020, 12:29:11 AM
Both shipments from Hier Gibt Bier arrived within a week of order. They used 2 different couriers each time, GLS and Hermes but both arrived in good condition.

Value averages out between £3.25-£3.40 a bottle which I have deemed in my own head to be reasonable. By comparison I was directed to a Dutch site and they were selling craft at mainly £6+ a bottle from an actual online bottleshop. The stuff was incomparable of course but it did make me feel better.

Several of the kellerbiers are brown lagers really so they have autumnal type flavours. I wouldn't rule out trying them, some are utterly fabulous like that Weiherer above. The lighter ones I have tried - in order of quality - were: the above, Aufsesser Zwickl, Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff, Goller Kellerbier, Krug Brau Urstoff, Hubner Vollbier. My latest batch has a wider range so I have dunkels, rauchs, bocks, wheat beer etc.

Cheers, ordered a dozen selection of:

Aufsesser Brauerei Aufsesser Zwickl
Brauerei Göller Göller - Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff
Brauerei Göller Göller Kellerbier
Schübel Bräu Schübel Nordeck-Trunk
Brauerei Hütten Hütten Zoigl
Brauerei Penning-Zeissler Hetzelsdorfer Vollbier
Krug Bräu Krug Ur-Stoff

Hoping it makes it by weekend after this! £3.50/bottle. Bargain.
   
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on June 11, 2020, 09:43:10 AM
Ordered my friend a box of beer for his birthday so I got a few for myself as well:

Andechs Vollbier Hell
Hacker Pschorr Anno 1417 Munich Keller Bier
Westmalle Dubbel

woooooo *insanely revolting belch*
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 11, 2020, 12:58:21 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_04_06/52434ffebae483bbfbf738ce88768fce_640x640.jpg)

Buchenbacher Beck'n Bier - (4.6% Vollbier) *** and a half
Gasthof Herold brewery

Untappd has this down as a Munich Dunkel, though it has the same brown/ruby tint as some of the recent kellerbiers I've had. 4.6% is light for the style and so it will be interesting to see how flavour compensates for the slight lack of body.

Apparently Beck'n bier is 400 years old with malts roasted over a wood fire. The roasty malts are one of the first things you can pick up both in the aroma and in the mouth, along with bread and yeast. Pretzels!- Yes. If only I hadn't had lunch and bought a fuckoff salty pretzel to have with this beer. There's a pleasant ruby-ish sweetness which accompanies tingling bitter hops. There is a vague oaky dryness to the aftertaste and yes, it is more like a Munich Dunkel because there is a lack of herby/floral notes you get with a kellerbier. You can tell the brewer is striving to reach a balance of competing flavours and put the emphasis on drinkability - they succeed.

I'm not knowledgeable about brewing but there seem to be two distinct camps on brewing a beer with high drinkability - making a simpler balanced recipe with milder flavours or brewing a complex one so well all the flavours which could cause it to lean overly one way or another instead dance on a tightrope. The latter is where nice beer becomes really nice beer.

The beer has more than a hint of what you can expect from Czech polotmavy (semi-dark) lager (except for perhaps the wonderful vycepni pour from the keg). The lands in Franconia, Oberpfalz and Bohemia are where these amber lagers come alive (despite both formally recognised amber styles traditionally being assigned to Munich and Vienna).

It's very nice and I'd be really happy if I could mosey along to their Gasthof every week for a couple of these.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on June 11, 2020, 01:00:22 PM
Ordered my friend a box of beer for his birthday so I got a few for myself as well:

Andechs Vollbier Hell
Hacker Pschorr Anno 1417 Munich Keller Bier
Westmalle Dubbel

woooooo *insanely revolting belch*

Part of my (very relaxed) stag do involved an afternoon at Andechs playing cards on the terrace with friends. I’m very fond of the beer, and remember it being excellent.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 11, 2020, 01:02:30 PM
Love that Shouldsy is legless round the clock on these cellar beauties
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 11, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
https://www.goodbeerhunting.com/blog/2020/6/9/embracing-tradition-to-create-a-style-for-the-future-south-african-brewers-look-to-the-past

This article is interesting. 99.999% of us haven't tried every style of beer out there (even if we exclude subsubsubgenres). The assembled judges had no frame of reference to score this beer style.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 11, 2020, 04:16:32 PM
That's how I feel about Labatts 😢
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on June 11, 2020, 04:20:30 PM
That's how I feel about Labatts 😢

Good god they don’t export that stuff do they?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 11, 2020, 10:20:44 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/d3/8d/5e/d38d5e6c6fcc71a75b6ee9d8ef5f6b5d--craft-beer-labels.jpg)

Ellertaler Zwick'l (4.9% Kellerbier) - *** and a half
Privatbrauerei Reh, Lohndorf/Bamberg

I picked up a a few of these as it looked like the type of Kellerbier I was most familiar with before starting this all. To my genuine surprise most of the last batch were brown beers (which is fine but wasn't the point of the order). I had previously tried a beer by Reh while in Nuremberg (their Altfrankisch Dunkel) which was extraordinarily nice, so thought I had better give this one a go. It's pale, with an unfiltered haze and a very faint aroma of straw and citrus fruit.

The flavour continues in that vein with a agricultural element (think harvested fields etc) in the very background balanced by what is quite a bitter lime kind of aftertaste. I am sure phes probably would have bought this if I'd have reviewed it sooner.

Enjoyment of a beer is so much dependent on the setting. This one is designed for hot summer days with the sun's warmth on your face reclining in the biergartens. It would be my go to over something like a helles or pilsner because it offers all they do and yet more.

As an evening drink on a day which is getting bleaker by the hour it's perhaps not the appropriate choice for the setting (my fault as I just wanted to see what it was like) but it's good nevertheless. As it goes along you are pulled back in by the enjoyable balance between the unfiltered keller tang and the citric hops.

In an ideal world some important people on the craft circuit would pick this one up. I'm pretty sure the assertive bitter flavour would pick up some craft fans.



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 11, 2020, 11:03:57 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91n6cE%2BAQlL._AC_SY741_.jpg)
(Click to enlarge)

Wurth Zoigl-Dunkel - (5.3% Zoiglbier) - ****
Privatbrauerei Wurth, Windischeschenbach

Well, it only took 33 years but I have finally tasted a legitimate zoiglbier from Windischeschenbach, the centre of Zoigl brewing in the known universe (as the picture above states 'aus der Hauptstadt des Zoiglbiers'). This is the beer I should have chosen to drink first. Rather than repeat the tale I have told about this tradition I will stick with a description of the beer.

Most Zoigl I have had has been brown, malty but well balanced and fairly accessible lager. This one doesn't change the recipe too much, it is perhaps two steps further into being a Dunkel. Probably still dark brown rather than near black.

This one has a distinct aroma coming off it, almost like brewing wort itself. When you dive in to it the beer is quickly + obviously a display of what can be done with malt flavourings. It's difficult to describe but a chalky yet sweet balance pinches into a brief and very black finish on the tongue. I guess how porter does sometimes.

If you let the beer linger in your mouth you've got brown ale and porter qualities but all here in a German lager, pretty extraordinary. As you might imagine from that, this is a full flavoured beer. To get twatty about it you've got flavours like damson, molasses, roast chestnut, even tree bark messing about in the mix.

Part of the reason I am making the effort with this stuff is that it seems like these type of beers are being forgotten in a rush to absolutely fine tune the next stonefruit sour Antiguan IPA or whatever. These ones are evidence of brewing passed down through generations. In the hermetically sealed community of Zoigl brewing these beers don't wax and wane with fashions. The King stay the King.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 11, 2020, 11:33:18 PM
The Ellertaler does sound up my street at this time of year. I'll take more time to read the reviews and browse the shop for a wider range of beers for my second order. On the subject of craft brewers ignoring these many styles of beer, one brewer that I've had a couple of great beers by is Jack's Abbey. This was probably 6 or 7 years back now, and the beers I had definitely had stronger hop characteristics than might be found in traditional examples of the style. Their Cascadian Schwarzbier (long gone) was hands down my favorite beer of the night at a beer tasting that I went to

https://jacksabby.com/beer/
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 12, 2020, 05:58:31 AM
Shoulders, really enjoying these write-ups. I've cut down on drinking of late because I'm working too much to get away with it but enjoying vicariously.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 12, 2020, 01:27:16 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_05_17/8e3ea04bf9ecf1911d3888191cb4d4c8_640x640.jpg)

Main Seidla Keller (4.9%, Kellerbier) - *** and a half
Brauhaus Binkert (https://www.mainseidla.de/), Breitengussbach

This one features in 111 Franconian Beers You Must Try (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fr%C3%A4nkische-Biere-getrunken-haben-German-ebook/dp/B01N3YD7SZ), which was a reason I picked it up. Brauhaus Binkert's branding is modern, a little sterile for my tastes, but I think they are involved in brewing non-traditional craft styles and have picked up a very good reputation for that (albeit with not oodles of competition in such a traditional region). It's a professional, well-financed operation considering its location and market. The brewery and taproom is 2 stops on the S-Bahn from Bamberg, that is if you can prise yourself away from Bamberg itself, with its 9 city breweries to contend with.

The bottle advertises the beer as naturally cloudy, as a Kellerbier should be, so I was surprised that it poured fairly clear. There is a light haze to it, but definitely a pale gold colour that wouldn't look out of place emerging from a Carlsberg can. So that's a little surprising.

There's a fresh harvest aroma, possibly wild flowers too. The flavour here leans more towards a style of kellerbier I would have been confident 6 months ago in stating was the norm (not sure about that now). Lightly malty with a spicy (maybe cloves) citrusy element that marries well with the unfiltered lager tang. Hoppier than some. Not harsh but a prolonged tingle after swallowing. I'm not a hophead but were I to guess, I think they used Hallertau in here.

Like a lot of good kellerbiers each mouthful produces a very slightly different effect, and the drink evolves as it progresses. In this case I enjoyed it a lot more as it went on. As the carbonation mellows a light honeysuckle flavour develops. As there's still plenty of hops to keep it zingy til the end and plenty of moreish unfiltered texture to tie it altogether, I'd say it was a pretty successful one, despite my early ambivalence.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thelittlemango on June 12, 2020, 02:43:46 PM
Shoulders, really enjoying these write-ups. I've cut down on drinking of late because I'm working too much to get away with it but enjoying vicariously.

Also really enjoying these, this thread used to irritate me because it seemed like there was a bit of disdain for craft beer hipsters while the people talking about all of these German, Belgian etc. beers were not much different, except replace a world where something being hoppy is the defining characteristic with one where every drink is praised for being "malty" "chocolatey" or something similarly rich. Both seemed quite myopic to me and I couldn't understand why one was seen as a bit common and the other was for the connoisseur other than the relative scarcity of the latter (back to my hipster point).

However, digging in to these reviews and the descriptions of idyllic places to drink them and the subtle flavour differences and brewing cultures etc. made me feel a bit dismissive and also really desperate to try a bunch of them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 12, 2020, 04:01:02 PM
Most of my testiness about craft beer relates to its marketing; the myopia of the scene and some of the prospects of its direction rather than the beer itself.

While pale ale will never be my favourite style (and I reserve the right to use the phrase tangerine gloop at times) I enjoy lots of craft beer, particularly stouts, porters, sours, some Goses and some one offs that have been restored to prominence by craft breweries.

I'm contrarian by nature and attracted to underdogs and dying traditions (valuable seeming ones at least) but it so happens that these Franconia brewers brew some good beers and of a kind you can't readily find in the UK, even many parts of Germany.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on June 12, 2020, 07:47:51 PM
I've been enjoying Shoulders' kellerbier odyssey so I got some Hacker Pschorr kellerbier and have just started knocking it back. Absolutely lovely stuff, cloudy and thick and (yes you guessed it lads) malty. Love malty. Sitting quite heavily on my stomach though so god knows what kind of shit I will be forcing out tomorrow.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 13, 2020, 10:12:27 AM
I just can't justify paying £75 for beer and £75 for shipping, really. I'd rather pay £150 for top tier Trappist stuff and try a few different things I can find in this country. I'd be well up for visiting some of these places though down the line. I don't know why, I probably waste a hundred quid a month on games I don't play for more than an hour but I dunno...shipping...it feels like money down the bog.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 13, 2020, 11:09:59 AM
Yeah I agree the shipping costs look stark separated like that. I backed out of ordering several times before eventually going for it.

You're still paying £3.25-£3.50 a 500ml bottle, same as you would pay from a bottleshop, and not that much more than you'd pay for a 440ml craft can at Morrisons (which are £3). And less than at the pub. All beer cost includes shipping.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 13, 2020, 12:04:12 PM
Was good value for me. I'd get 6-10 x 440ml cans at a bottle shop for the price I paid for 12 x 500ml bottles. Supermarket obviously much cheaper but as you'll never see any of these beers there...

Now if they'll just arrive by next Friday the weekend won't hinge on the inevitable disappointment of the premier league which I am both looking forward to but couldn't care less about

My order has been dispatched with 'Greetings from Franconia'. Greetings is underrated and underused
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 13, 2020, 12:33:49 PM
Feel like pure shit just wanna go to Framconia
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on June 13, 2020, 12:52:53 PM
Feel like pure shit just wanna go to Framconia

I always laugh at the repurposing of “feel like pure shit just want XYZ” for some reason.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 13, 2020, 04:08:00 PM
I'm glad it's not just me. I don't know even know why I find it funny.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 13, 2020, 10:16:31 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_05_10/a2c733e4a0c7672dedf9d712a4a2eac7_640x640.jpg)

Aufsesser Dunkel (4.7%, Kellerbier) - **** and a half
Familienbraurei Rothenbach (https://brauereigasthof-rothenbach.de/), Aufsess

The keener-eyed (or very bored) will note that I reviewed the Aufsesser Zwickl a month or so ago. It was probably the best beer of the first batch, and so seeing that they do a Dunkel, it had to be bought.

This is classed as a Munich Dunkel, however tastes more like many of the kellerbiers to me. The brown, roasted malt flavour is familiar with several in this style. The rear label states this has Munich, caramel and roast malt while the hops are Spalter Perle and Spalter select.

What makes this beer stand out, a bit like their Zwickl, is the full texture and faint farmhousey type funk which is unusual to find in a supposed Dunkel beer. The recipe for both these beers must be reasonable close together as it is to all intents and purposes a darker version. The hops are mild, the kind of stuff you expect in Helles lager, and only really there for balance. Yet something about the hop character is integral to why this works. The interplay between the brown beer elements and the almost wheatbeer-like mouthfeel which is elevated by those bright hops in the finish makes this one really enjoyable.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 14, 2020, 08:32:05 PM
(https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6039/6878427950_2a98f05b1a_b.jpg)

Meister Vollbier - (4.9% Vollbier) - *** and a half
Brauerei Georg Meister (https://www.meisterbräu.de/mod/main.php), Unterzaunsbach

One can only assume Meister is Georg's family name rather than some Renegade Master-level affectation once he got his brewing badges, like those strange group of people who add BA or BSc as an official title once they get a degree.

Another tiny Franconian village in the heart of the countryside, another brown unfiltered kellerbier, this one made using the local spring water. I seemed to pour this one near perfect as it produced this gorgeous (Georgous) consistent foam about an inch and a half thick. Very enticing.

This brown going-on ruby coloured beer is full of nuts and roast malt in the aroma, the kind of elements you associate with autumn and winter. Its branding is certainly happy to play to that type, as you can see above. If you really dig your nose in there is almost a fireside quality to it.

The tasting, well this beer has a full thick texture in the mouth with a lovely easy drinking softness in the aftertaste that may offer pause for possible misconceptions about lager. The hops and malt flavour reach a harmony which is as difficult to describe as it is easy to enjoy. Unfiltered lager has a particular aftertaste but good brewers can play with that, as this one has done, to create different effects. Roast malt adds a certain stiffness and dryness, while the hops give it that tingle on the tongue.

Edit - Just to add that while the brewery is open their Gasthof/restaurant has closed, as they can't get any staff. Who would have thought hollowing out nearby small towns into places only wealthy retirees could afford to live in would have an impact?

I commit this review to the thread.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 14, 2020, 09:08:51 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2018_07_30/630a913a9080848292a2aba569350af9_640x640.jpeg)

Hutten Zwickl (5.1% Kellerbier) - **** and a half
Brauerei Hutten (https://www.brauerei-huetten.de/home.html), Warmensteinach*

I reviewed Hutten Zoigl which happened to be one of the best of the last batch, a truly wonderful rich and enjoyable beer. It made sense to order their Zwickl in this to try.

It's a lighter shade of beer (sorry about the pic above, the only real illustrative one I could find) with more of an amber bitter type look. In comparison to the last beer the aroma is really faint. A hint of spice perhaps, though that could be a mis-smelling or just desire to say something half-useful.

As soon as you think you've figured these beers out, one comes along to fuck you back to square one. As far as my understanding of Zwickl goes, this one has achieved a reset. The Zwickl so far has been lighter, paler, really cloudy perhaps more herbal with pastoral/agricultural hints (like golden ale but better). Yet this one is 5.1%, full flavoured with a lovely sweetness, perhaps a hint of honeysuckle but packaged together in the brew so well by being spicy (think Belgian Tripel levels of spice) with hops that are lively in the mouth but don't leave a burn down the hatch, just enough of a crispness to keep you interested. Who cares what style it is to be frank.

I wouldn't care to say whether this or their Zoigl is better but they are supreme. These kind of brews are what it's all about for me. Happy to enjoy a bottle like the last one but this is one a whole other level and compete with any beers of any style at what they do.


*amusingly awful brewery website
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Dex Sawash on June 14, 2020, 09:35:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Xm6xPpE.jpg)

Meister Vollbier - (
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Head Gardener on June 15, 2020, 07:08:41 AM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/e6a1b67b47275388b7d86faef224c4ea/27b0c57903d63ed4-be/s540x810/0fdc4db7d2f87d97531439983d4aa55740e13c64.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 15, 2020, 07:29:32 AM
I've had that, bit yeasty.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 15, 2020, 12:29:59 PM
(https://i2.wp.com/www.beerwanderers.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/IMG_0119.jpg?resize=415%2C521&ssl=1)
(https://cdn.webshopapp.com/shops/78892/files/271984789/650x750x2/nikl-braeu-lagerbier-zwickl.jpg)

Nikl-Brau Helles Zwickelbier (5,1%, Kellerbier) - ****
Brauerei Nikl (http://www.brauerei-nikl.de/), Pretzfeld

I picked up this one due to the lack of pale kellerbiers in the first shipment. If I could have put my finger precisely on the type of beer I was hoping and expecting for from it, I'd have touched a bottle of this.

There is the most faint clean aroma which is virtually neutral, but what comes across strongly in this beer at first is lively spice, apparently using Tettnang (http://www.hopslist.com/hops/aroma-hops/tettnang-tettnanger/) hops, normally not from this region.

The page describing the hop makes me relieved I'm not talking out of my arse as it too mentions spice. The quality of the spice is such that if I poured you some in a tulip glass for a blind tasting you might initially mistake it for a Belgian blonde or pale. However ultimately the backnotes have that more solid agricultural feel that people associate with lager, especially Germany lager. As the carbonation dies down you start picking up delicate floral qualities in the mouth that feel just right.

This is the right beer for the day too. It's warm and sunny outside, just a hint of breeze. I could be transported to a Franconian biergarten somewhere, reclining and soaking in the sun. Hazy, beautifully floral and spicy and enormously drinkable. It's a beer that follows Eno's philosophy of ambient music, a style that doesn't demand that you focus on it or that you let it drift into the background. You can do either and it will be similarly enjoyable.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 15, 2020, 06:41:53 PM
Another supermarket classic:

(https://www.newyorkbeverage.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/franz-pint-1.jpg)

Took a punt because my now regular Hefeweissbier was sold out and this is also really nice stuff. Pretty standard fayre I imagine but I think it's lovely, very drinkable and without a single off note for £1.80. Bit tangier and less banana and clovey. More like Schneider Weisse 01 than 07, to give that comparison. OK, it's no Schneider Weisse or La Trappe/Barnardo Wit (and obviously they're rather different) but it's a winner for the price and availability.

LGC
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 15, 2020, 06:47:03 PM
Definitely a notch above Erdinger and notch below Schneider Original. Franziskaner is a decent reflection of the standard hefeweizen flavour (whereas the former 2 are slightly unusual).

You might find Weihenstephan at Sainsbury's which is a slightly better version of Franziskaner.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 15, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
One of those beers that in the hundreds of times I've been into supermarkets I've never yet seen anyone buying, but most supermarkets sell it. Is there a bigger gulf in quality between the average macro lager and any other drink that's available in every supermarket?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 15, 2020, 07:40:53 PM
Quote
Is there a bigger gulf in quality between the average macro lager and any other drink that's available in every supermarket?

I was just trying to work out what you meant by that and falling short, sorry.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 15, 2020, 07:50:21 PM
Yes it's a terrible comparison and wording. It amounts to is there a better drink that you can buy in almost every supermarket in the country.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 15, 2020, 07:56:54 PM
Duvel?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 15, 2020, 08:07:24 PM
If we're talking about good beer with really widespread availability in supermarkets, then you're looking at a short list

Probably: Guinness, Hoegaarden, Franziskaner, Duvel, Budvar, Staropramen, Brooklyn and yes, I'll say it, Punk IPA. Of the real ale ones I guess London Pride, Hobgoblin, Landlord, Bishops Finger?

To pick one, probably Hoegaarden in my opinion. Franziskaner is a nice enough example of the style whereas Hoegaarden more or or less defines it's style.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 15, 2020, 09:30:50 PM
Would love to be able to add an ipa to the list but the last two times I've had punk it has been very poor indeed. Has anyone had Lagunitas lately? I wonder if that's better maintained its integrity
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on June 15, 2020, 09:42:01 PM
Would love to be able to add an ipa to the list but the last two times I've had punk it has been very poor indeed. Has anyone had Lagunitas lately? I wonder if that's better maintained its integrity

I had one on draft about 6 months ago (in a boring bar, it was that of a macro lager) and was very disappointed. Subsequently found it had been sold (and probably why it was being distributed in a bar that only sold macro lagers). I was never a huge fan before, but it has definitely gone down the tubes. Sorry :(

I don’t know enough about UK breweries or what American stuff (wont even bother saying Canadian stuff as byzantine Canadian law means fuck all can be exported for some reason) you’d get over there so I can’t even recommend a replacement. Useless comment. Sorry again.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on June 15, 2020, 09:46:43 PM
If we're talking about good beer with really widespread availability in supermarkets, then you're looking at a short list

Probably: Guinness, Hoegaarden, Franziskaner, Duvel, Budvar, Staropramen, Brooklyn and yes, I'll say it, Punk IPA. Of the real ale ones I guess London Pride, Hobgoblin, Landlord, Bishops Finger?

To pick one, probably Hoegaarden in my opinion. Franziskaner is a nice enough example of the style whereas Hoegaarden more or or less defines it's style.

B&M are selling 12 packs of Brooklyn for a tenner. Not sure if it's the same selection that Shoulders got from Home Bargains at the start of the thread, this one had 4 each of Lager, Pilsner and Naranjito. 84p a can is pretty good. Unfortunately, I'm knocking beer on the head for a few weeks now. I've been drinking (in moderation) every night for ages and have been trying to refrain for ages without success. Poor me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 15, 2020, 09:49:59 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2018_07_14/c09879c0a94ff89b66c97e1921249c47_640x640.jpeg)

Walkurentrunk, (5.2%, Helles Lager) ** and a half
Brauerei Glenk (https://www.glenk-braeu.com/), Bayreuth

Firstly I am not sure what the person who took the photo did to produce even that much head. I can't think of any other lager where the head disappeared so aggressively. I started really chugging the beer into the glass yet the froth produced just vanished as soon as it was created. Shocking.

I bought this on a wing and a prayer (woman with big tits on label seemingly pole dancing - but classy this time, not vulgar like you thought) but unfortunately it's the first one I've had that's a bit mediocre too. Especially unfortunate as the rear label claims Bayreuth is synonymous with beer and Richard Wagner. So its contribution to global culture is a fascist and this beer. Cheers guys.

Part of the problem comes from the lack of head to be honest. There's a lively hop and pleasant sweet and crisp helles style finish which shows it isn't all bad. If you concentrate solely on that there's some good stuff there, but also the first hint of gloop in the texture, which pretty much none of the previous beers have had. The entire lack of foam is permanently distracting.

It's the kind of beer that can be absently drunk without any real remark to the affirmative or otherwise. Have had many such beers in bars while pining for the good stuff. A significant step down from the previous ones, sadly.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 15, 2020, 09:52:14 PM
I've not had a drink in six weeks so I'm going to be hammered after two of these German beers once they arrive.

Vocation do some reasonable ipas and are fairly widely available but as their can designs and naming follow such a similar formula, I couldn't tell you which beer is which. Sierra Nevada despite being a pale ale probably takes the award for IPA/pale. Brewdogs Mr President is very good but not as widely available as punk and elvis
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 16, 2020, 06:50:05 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2019_09_03/17cc99c3ccc306b046834c8dca157d09_640x640.jpg)

Schlossbrauerei Stelzer Zoigl Bier (5.0%, Zoigl bier) - ****
Schlossbrauerei Stelzer (https://www.schlossbrauerei-stelzer.de/), Oberkotzau/Fattigau

The comfortable winner for my favourite label - and one Bosto will like - gothic!

Brewed just south of Hof in the Oberpfalz/Upper Palatinate near the Czech border. This is a brown/amber (darker than pictured above) unfiltered and unpasteurised lager with a faint aroma of prunes, woodchips. This one kind of tastes like a Vienna Lager to me. The texture in the mouth is full, fairly thick and sweet with some caramel malt but well balanced with a lively fizzing tingling hop which leaves a bitter finish and prevents the beer from becoming cloying.

I can imagine this being especially good on tap with a more natural carbonation but it works in this form reasonably well.

Not a style of beer you can easily find and well worth a try.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 17, 2020, 05:14:05 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_05_09/16162bb01f363174639e3117f22eb6c6_640x640.jpg)

Heiner's Original Spezialbier - (5.2%, Pale Lager) - ****
Honicka-Brau (http://www.hoenicka.de/), Wunsiedla

I was intrigued by a beer bottle with a screwcap! Unusual experience. Not sure why I was expecting it to be more flat. It certainly isn't! Pours with a nice frothy head that maintains well over the drink.

I didn't have high hopes for the beer itself yet it's a really good example of a 13° lager (these usually end up between 5.1-5.8% strength). Most of these I'm used to in Czech Republic and Poland but German hops (of course) are used here which changes its character.

Higher strength means sweetness, yet this is combated by use of a strong floral bitterness that sits really well with the soft, full mouthfeel. It's highly drinkable and ought to placate more forgiving hopheads with its beautiful notes. Imagine how much better standard industrial quantity lager would be if it followed this template. It's harmony in every mouthful, you can almost sense the Creation of Adam style bridge between the two worlds of flavour and its met in this beer.

Really nice that a beer I had the lowest expectations for was this tasty. Gutted I only got 1 bottle.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 18, 2020, 10:05:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzeP2VfWEAAG4QC.jpg)

Leikeim Steinbier (5.8%, Steinbier) - **** and a half
Brauhaus Leikeim, Altenkunstadt

Steinbier, what's that Alan? I didn't know, so I picked this up to try. Home brewers take note:

Quote
Steinbier (pronounced [ˈʃtaɪnˌbiːɐ], German for stone beer) is a type of beer that was predominant in Carinthia until the beginning of the 20th century. It was also common in Scandinavia, the Baltics,[1] Franconia and south-western Germany.[2]

Steinbier is not mashed in kettles, but in wooden tubs. Its name is derived from the hot stones that were put into the mashing tubs to achieve the required temperature for production. Due to the contact of the glowing, hot stones—often heated directly in the fire—with the malt, the resulting beer has a taste of caramel and soot. This was a traditional brewing process; top-fermenting yeasts and a taste of fruity ester were usual and there was no emphasis on long term storability. Steinbier was usually not filtered

So, brewing with hot stones!

Caramel and soot? Hmm. I don't know about soot but this is very cloudy and thick with a marzen/dunkelweizen quality, but yes, also a malty, spicy dry finish. The aroma is packed with cloves and has a sort of forged-in-fire aroma that's a tad different from most without being off-putting or alien. It's a strong one - 5.8% but goes down similar to wheatbeer, I guess. Ie- very easily.

Am I a fan of this? Fuck yes! It's tasty stuff. Imagine marzen, brown wheatbeer and kellerbier combining with some hints of firey stoney blacksmithery thrown in there.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 18, 2020, 10:57:42 PM
My beer arrived today, in under one week as Shoulders' also had. All present and correct except for the Nordek Trunk, sadly. No fear, I'll cool them for tomorrow night and then pop back here to drunkenly complain they're too malty. Kaiser Henrich Urstoff chilling first as the thirst quencher!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on June 19, 2020, 02:13:09 AM
Just started on my BIAB order that arrived last week. Really impressed with the Corsendonk Wit and Dubbel Kriek. The Wit was wonderfully smooth and creamy, much more depth and flavour than Hoegaarden.

The Dubbel Kriek doesn't have as much carbonation or tartness as a Liefmans Kriek but is funkier and more rustic. Nice, but at 8.3% the alcohol makes itself apparant in the after taste.

10 different types in total, looking forward to getting through them, plus the free glass is also lovely
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 19, 2020, 05:12:05 PM
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8292/7494723776_9846a68097_b.jpg)

Nothelfer Bio-weisse (5.3%, Hefeweizen) - ****
Brauerei Trunk (https://brauerei-trunk.de/), Bad Staffelstein

I ordered a few wheat beers to try in this shipment. Brauerei Trunk is the operation of Mr Andreas Trunk (who seems to be smaller and thinner than such a surname deserves) based in a small village outside Bad Staffelstein, a lovely spa town north of Bamberg.

This is a straight down the line attempt at a traditional cloudy German wheatbeer. Huge fresh banana aroma greets you, which stays throughout. Thickness is spot on, as you'd expect.

The beer is quite clovey and spicy with a bit of a hoppy kick to its aftertaste, a tad more than we get with some from this style. That is at the core of the appeal here. It's strikes a really nice balance, and when you let it linger in your mouth a bit there's more going on than you'd initially gather. Some times you can pick up an orange fruit tang, other times the spices stick out.

Wheatbeer seems to be a subtle art, a bit like lager in that's it's possible for a large operation to churn out a competent one to order but really tricky to make one that's interesting but retains the same drinkability. Heaven knows I've tried enough of them to know which ones fail at that. This one is a delicious, near-completely successful wheatbeer that jumps above Franziskaner (a reasonable baseline of the style) and competes, possibly is better than Weihenstephan's.

Out there with the sun shining and a fresh pint of this would be bliss.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 19, 2020, 06:49:40 PM
Isolating to fuck so guess what.

My wife's dads brought me over a load of English ales. Fair play old bean. Haven't had this stuff in a long time but actually quite nice and I can probably have about eight nowadays because I'm used to cunting the Trappist shit from about 4pm.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 19, 2020, 10:58:09 PM
Good luck in fictional isolation Bosto - I hope the absolute paedshit EDL-Brau bevvies will see you through your horrid-19 times.

Nu-review!

http://www.lang-braeu.de/en/beers/bock-bright/

Quote
The strongest beer in the brewery’s arsenal. The delicious Bock is a real man’s beer with over 18 % original gravity.

I'm a real man! I'm a fucking man - deal with it everyone - yeah! Who wants to take this on?

(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_05_01/5ff9b7197a4cc2a80cfa5f7240dc1a0e_640x640.jpg)

Man's glass is that?

Lang Brau Echter Doppelbock (Maibock, 7.5%) - ***
Lang Brau (http://www.lang-braeu.de/), Wunsiedel-Schonbrunn

Most people will know Bock as being amber, red or dark strong beers Germany produces, with Doppelbock being the even more formidable derivation. Kloster Andechs Doppelbock is a famous example, but most follow a tradition of adding "ator" at the end of the name, in an almost stupid enough ritual to match adding "gate" at the end of political scandals. Triumphator, Celebrator, Maximator, Masturbator, it's done, it's in the cumsock.

Well this is a light bock, not a style I've traditionally enjoyed as much as others. With pale lager, once you make something so sweet you crush the prospects of malty complexity and narrow the window of hops that will work. In short it's a bloody difficult beer to get right.

This one is really grassy and hoppy with an almost apple like flavour as the carbonation dissipates (we'll get on to that). However you get a lovely full mouthfilling deliciousness with every gulp. The strength is its asset here as it's ostensibly a bitter, floral, grassy beer that's backed up by fucktonnes of heft in the brew.

Sadly the fizz went out of it halfway through so the appearance is now of flat apple juice, and unfortunately I can't give it a rating I otherwise may have. Conversely if I'd ordered it in Germany on tap it would have taken them 45 minutes to pour half a glass of it while meticulously spooning the froth away each time.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 20, 2020, 07:26:06 AM
https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2020/6/19/have-we-reached-terminal-ipa

Provocative talking point to go 'hmm' and 'I guess' at.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on June 20, 2020, 02:21:58 PM
https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2020/6/19/have-we-reached-terminal-ipa

Provocative talking point to go 'hmm' and 'I guess' at.

I agree with this, I don’t see where the style goes next.

Though I will say I’ve had Sip of Sunshine from Lawsons, as well as the famous ones by the alchemist and hill farmstead (a friend of mine used to make the drive to Vermont and back and usually gave me a few cans because he knows I’m a beer nerd).

They weren’t anything “new” necessarily (and especially not these days), but they are markedly superior beers. I remember Spoke Shave (?) by the Alchemist being seriously impressive - every aspect of it was done perfectly. Heady Topper was good (and I’m splitting hairs here because they were all seriously excellent beers) but I though Lawsons was the better brewery overall.

These days though, I can go to Left Field in Toronto and get a Laser Show (or anything from Bellwood’s) and it will likely be comparable. I expect that’s the same for most places.

Rambling esoteric bullshit fuck it post
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Horselover Fat on June 20, 2020, 03:57:03 PM
Shoulders?-Stomach! - just had some Franconian beer delivered from the website you linked to. Flipping excellent. Thank you for the tip x
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 20, 2020, 05:21:35 PM
Shoulders?-Stomach! - just had some Franconian beer delivered from the website you linked to. Flipping excellent. Thank you for the tip x

Nice! You're welcome, of course.

They really do set a high standard when it comes to 'ordinary day to day beer'.

Just polished off another Reh Zwick'l beer and that is just delicious.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on June 20, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Some good news at least? However you wonder if Belgium in a Box are burning their bridges taking on so many orders they can't process in a reasonable timescale AND can't manage people's expectations either. I expect you won't be handing over more money to them quickly eh, Blods?

First beer review of the 10 I listed above:

Goller Kellerbier unfiltriert (German Kellerbier style, 4.9%) - **** and a half

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT-TxyU5ly9yunxcOpNYxWsR7mj10NZ5em41rcarrbasePfWamK&usqp=CAU)

The first thing to say is this is a classic example of what I mentioned upthread about unfashionable styles from unfashionable breweries losing out on the likes of Ratebeer and Untappd versus average wares from fashionable brewers. 3.35/5 is very unjust. I am joyful that there are 5 more of these to come.

This is thick, unfiltered and amber coloured. On the spicy side too, I am even picking up backnotes of what you'd expect from a Belgian Tripel (seriously) except this is 4.9% and I have a half litre swing-top bottle of it. Wheatbeer is the nearest next style along to Kellerbier, as it is also thick in texture, a tad biscuity and spicy, but Kellerbier has a little something else. Hoppier perhaps and more grainy with delicate floral notes in the aftertaste. The flavour balances vary substantially - a bit like English Bitter tends to cover a wider range than most styles. Some are sweet verging on cloying (eg. Keiler) while some are deliciously citric while lightly grainy (eg. Mauerscheisser). This one certainly competes with any I've had. It's aiming for a straight down the line kellerbier and nails it.

It is usually served in a half litre stone mug or 'steinkrug' with a frothing head popping out over the top. No such luck here. I have a litre Erdinger steinkrug but it's not the time for that yet. However, it doesn't matter overly.

Loved this. Not a great surprise given my taste and also that I'm inclined to heavily chill beer at this time of year and this is a beer that suits a cool serve. Relatively dry, very peppery, a touch lactic and a pronounced hop bitterness. Very good!

Also enjoyed the Kaiser Heinrich Urstaff very much. As you noted this is not an impact beer, but one that excels over time. I would revisit this beer again and again long after I'd tired of fifty more exciting beers.

A couple of the others I was less taken by, but I suspect these are beers that suffered through my over-cooling, and for the second bottles I will cellar-cool rather than fridge chill.

Edit: Krug brau Urstoff. This reminded me of popular macro lagers available in this country except it doesn't taste like shit. Sweet, malty, bready, nice bitter pucker to it. Pleasant.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 20, 2020, 09:58:54 PM
Relieved to read some of that. In a weird way I put a bit of pressure on myself seeing as you and some others are spending your own money.

Quote
Also enjoyed the Kaiser Heinrich Urstaff very much. As you noted this is not an impact beer, but one that excels over time. I would revisit this beer again and again long after I'd tired of fifty more exciting beers

Yes, it's difficult to think of a beer that has such a "huh, well nothing much going on here" first impression only to move by the end of the bottle to thinking "I could powerslam another one of these".
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: TrenterPercenter on June 22, 2020, 02:55:55 PM
Ok I've gone in on the Hier-gibts-bier

Aufsesser Zwickl
Hutten Zwickl/Zoigl
Schubel Nordeck
Stelzer Zoigl
Nikl Lagerbier
Weiterer Bio-Zwickerla Dunkel

I've basically chosen all of the biers Shoulders has put as 4* or higher (and got a couple of the ones that were top-top), so you know, no pressure : )

What temp are we drinking these bad boys at? Are they like English beers that you have room temp or get them cold as fuck and drink them in the sun kind of affairs?  Also presumably as some of these are not pasteurised they spoil reasonably quickly? I'm sure they that won't be a problem as they won't last long but how long do they last out of interest?

Cheers : )
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 22, 2020, 04:53:42 PM
Nice! I don't tend to drink beer near freezing point like some prefer, but these are lagers and should be served colder than ales.

Last night I drank a Dunkel without chilling it though and it was fine. The pale ones especially are perfect summer drinking beers.

The best before dates have been around 2/3 months on average. With perhaps 1 even then quite minor exception they have all seemed exceptionally fresh and as the brewery would hope for. The whole idea I guess is around high quality, organic and fresh with traditional less cost effective but massively flavour enhancing brewing techniques.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 24, 2020, 07:19:46 PM
Now I've tried rather a lot of these Franconian beers from Hier-Gibts-Bier.de, I thought it might be useful to compile a small list of best to worst in each category to help anyone who is keen on getting any of these in:

Pale Kellerbier/Zwickl biers

Schubel Nordeck Trunk - 9/10    (Spicy with a citrusy hop)
Aufsesser Zwickl - 9/10             (Thick, unfiltered, tangy, farmhousey and light as air)
Hutten Zwickl - 8/10                  (Lighter than their Zoigl but still comparatively hefty)
Goller Kellerbier - 8/10              (An archetype of the style - cloudy, spicy, subtle hops and mildly agricultural notes)
Nikl Lagerbier Zwickl - 7.5/10    (Pale, super-refreshing with a slight crispness and citric element)
Mainseidla Keller - 7.5/10          (Pale and quite clear, minerality and green bitterness competing with gorgeous unfiltered tang)
Reh Zwickl - 7/10                      (Similar to Nikl and Schubel, enjoyable but less of a standout example)

Copper Vollbier (inc. Kellerbiers/Landbiers)

Simon Spezial - 8.5/10                       (Amber, Marzen-esque lager which starts nice then seems to get even nicer)
Honicka Heiner's Original - 8/10        (Floral bitterness with frothy soft but full textured ambery lager, a surprise find)
Reckendorfer Kellerbier - 7.5/0         (Brownish, easy drinking coppery malty lager)
Hetzelsdorfer Vollbier - 7.5/10          (Subtly creeps up on you. Not overly complex but stop searching and focus on the drinkability)
Meister Vollbier - 7.5/10                    (Soft in the mouth but bitter tingly hops and roast malt competing in aftertaste)
Buchenbacher Beck'n'bier - 7/10      (Low % for the style, but this is liquid pretzel. Roast malt, bready, tingly hops, good balance)
Frauendorfer Landbier - 7/10           (A lynchpin of the style rather than an outstanding copper-brown kellerbier)
Hallerndorfer Kellerbier - 7/10          (More coppery coloured than you'd expect. Again roast malt, sweetness, tingly finish)
Stockl Ahorntaler Landbier - 7/10     (Brown, malty yet still refreshing. Not overly sweet. Lager mirror image of an English bitter

Dunkels/Brown kellerbier

Weiherer Zwickerla Dunkel - 9.5/10    (Almost overwhelmingly delicious. Reddish, full, thick, swirling, intoxicating and light as air)
Langbrau Burggraf Dunkel - 8/10      (Munich Dunkel, on the roasty end of things. Dry in the mouth but smooth finish and thick)
Bauernbier Dunkel - 8/10                   (Forgot my notes but this one was a terrific Munich dunkel)
Aufsesser Dunkel - 8/10                    (Only a shade darker than the brilliant Zwickel and nearly as good. Just a tone darker)
Lindenharter Landbier - 7.5/10         (Make peace with the dark brown colour, and it is rich, toasty and full flavoured )
Bamberger Braunbier - 7.5/10           (Delicious Dunk/Keller hybrid. Malty but lively hops. The better end of both worlds)
Leupser Dunkel - 7/10                       (Dry wholemealy dunkel that has a very distinct character. Well brewed.

Weissbier

Kuchlbauer Turmweisse - 8.5/10       (A genuine competitor for Schneider Original and Sternweisse for light brown wheatbeer flavour
Nothelfer Bioweisse - 8/10                (A trad attempt at Bavarian wheatbeer that nails it. So fresh and worthy of high praise)
Schroll Nankendorfer Weizenbier - 6/10     ( (lost its head and went flat, flavour was ok)

Zoiglbiers

Stelzer Fattigau Zoigl - 8.5/10          (Great label. Vienna-style lager. Full flavour, caramel malt, well balanced bitter finish. Exemplary)
Hutten Zoigl - 8/10                         (A stand-out brown beer that shows so much skill. Bursting with flavour yet moreishly drinkable )
Wurth Zoigl - 7.5/10                       (Weird one. Dunkel Zoigl. Malty yet thick and light. Unlike any beer I've had)   
Scherdel Zoigl - 7.5/10                   (Similar to a pale kellerbier but a little more spicy and thick. Nice but not a standout)
(Paul) Puttner Zoigl - 7.5/10          (Coppery kellerbier similar to the vollbiers above. Thick, sweet, hoppy and reddish brown

Weird/Atypical Ones

Leikem Steinbier - 8.5/10                       (An absolute one off - thick, strong light yet...faintly charred and elemental. Has to be tried)
Spezial Rauchbier - 8.5/10                     (May as well put it out there. This is better than Schlenkerla Marzen.)
Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff - 8/10                 (Deceptive bready Dortmunder style lager that just gets better with every gulp)
Hubner Vollbier  - 7.5/10                        (Smoked malt provides a surprise background flavour to this pale lager, and it works)
Frauendorfer Rauchbier - 7.5/10            (Smoke is not at the forefront, but it still props up the lager nicely)
Krug Brau Urstoff - 7.0/10                      (One of the less remarkable beers of this selection, but still enjoyable pleasant pale lager)
Langbrau Maibock - 6.5/10                    (Slight failure to launch, as the head disappeared leaving behind an appley-grassy  palebock)
Glenk Walkentrunk - 5/10                      (Disastrous. Something was wrong with the bottle. The head evaporated on impact with the glass.)


Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: TrenterPercenter on June 24, 2020, 09:43:11 PM
It's a pretty strong showing across the park really. Can't wait for mine to arrive hope the sun holds!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 24, 2020, 09:57:23 PM
It's a pretty strong showing across the park really. Can't wait for mine to arrive hope the sun holds!

Very difficult to give a score to these when comparing them to all other beer everywhere (especially as I've been drinking them for 6 weeks solid, so my standards are pretty high right now). If I had been spending the last 6 weeks drinking day to day lager some of these 7/10s would be 8 or 9s I'm sure. I've tried to rein in my urges to hype them all up and reserve that for the very best ones.

I am also biased towards these sort of beers, so just as phes has probably done, you'll find your own way of comparing and enjoying them based on your palette and qualms. It's nice to know that regardless of that you have much happy beer guzzling to look forward to (and in 20+ C temps hopefully!)


Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: TrenterPercenter on June 25, 2020, 12:40:41 PM
Not that i'm pining (JUST HOOK IT TO MY VEINS!) but what the delivery wait on the Kellerbiers.  It said on the website 1-3 working days (which would be amazing considering the brewery in Bham couldn't deliver in that time) but wasn't sure if that wasn't internally in Germany.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 25, 2020, 12:44:32 PM
Yes that's delivery time for within Germany. Took 7 days for mine to arrive both times and I think that was the same for phes, not sure about the other guy who mentioned getting some in.

If you email them they will send you links to the courier info where you can track it (though I found this info to be frustratingly badly updated. Seems to take a long time to get to the port for shipment then all of a sudden arrives on your doorstep just as you think it may take even longer).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: TrenterPercenter on June 25, 2020, 12:51:11 PM
Yes that's delivery time for within Germany. Took 7 days for mine to arrive both times and I think that was the same for phes, not sure about the other guy who mentioned getting some in.

If you email them they will send you links to the courier info where you can track it (though I found this info to be frustratingly badly updated. Seems to take a long time to get to the port for shipment then all of a sudden arrives on your doorstep just as you think it may take even longer).

Ah I see thought as much.  Ordered Monday so hopefully early next week then.  In someways thats good as i've got the inlaw and a few friends round this weekend (i.e. more for me!)

PS - also let me get my apologies in early for when i'm posting utter pish on here after getting smashed savouring and studying the delicate tones of Franconia's best booze next week.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 27, 2020, 12:31:38 PM
Have yours arrived? I've just received a final batch (I'm out of the country from 18th) 4 or 5 days ahead of expectations. I have no idea how they turned it around so quickly. Everything must have synchronised.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: TrenterPercenter on June 27, 2020, 02:46:30 PM
Have yours arrived? I've just received a final batch (I'm out of the country from 18th) 4 or 5 days ahead of expectations. I have no idea how they turned it around so quickly. Everything must have synchronised.

Yep arrived this morning! Had a hutten zoigl and the aufsesser zwickl very impressive.  You've done us a great service here Shoulders : )
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 27, 2020, 02:49:25 PM
Our own beer boxes may even have frotted on the ship across!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on June 27, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
Just had a mixed German Pilsener case arrive.

2 x 500ml bottles of each of these:
Paderborner Pilsener
Dab D-Pils
Wickuler Pilsener
Warsteiner Pils
Veltins Pils
Radeberger Pils
Brauerei Konigshofer Pils
Konig Pilsener
Jever Pilsener
Dab Pilsener
Brinkhoff's No1
Bitburger Pils


Thought it might be a nice refreshing thing to sit in the sun and drink so, obviously, it has started pissing down...
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 27, 2020, 04:20:59 PM
Quote
Paderborner Pilsener
Dab D-Pils
Wickuler Pilsener
Warsteiner Pils
Veltins Pils
Radeberger Pils
Brauerei Konigshofer Pils
Konig Pilsener
Jever Pilsener
Dab Pilsener
Brinkhoff's No1
Bitburger Pils

I don't mind DaB + Veltins on tap, they are quite satisfying. Radeberger and Konig very different to tell apart but passable. Jever seems to have a fan club, along with some of these really grassy and quite sharp-going-on metallic tasting pils from up in the North West.

Bitburger is one beer I go all hangdog sulky at seeing if its the only option at a bar.

purlieu, might have more to comment on those, he must have tried pretty much all of them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on June 27, 2020, 05:13:00 PM
I'm only familiar with about half of them, but I rather like those.
Bitburger would be my least favourite, but I'd still take it over most pub lagers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on June 27, 2020, 07:43:44 PM
La Trappe Dubbel

Barnardo Ocho

Rochefort Huit

Franziskaner Hefeweissbier

La Trappe Wit

Rochefort Dix

Barnardo Douze

Karmeliet Tripel
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on June 28, 2020, 12:32:54 AM
La Trappe Dubbel

Barnardo Ocho

Rochefort Huit

Franziskaner Hefeweissbier

La Trappe Wit

Rochefort Dix

Barnardo Douze

Karmeliet Tripel

...your boys took one hell of a beating!!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 28, 2020, 04:19:27 PM
For this shipment I decided to order some helles and pils for a bit of extra variety. There had been occasions where I simply fancied a pils. Now is such a time, after reading Greggles post yesterday.

(https://www.pivnici.cz/foto/bc/d7a1af5218c5e85ce6385ad176f04eb.jpg)

Gampertbrau Forsterpils (German pilsner, 4.9%) - *****
Gampertbrau (https://www.gampertbraeu.de/), Weissenbrunn-Kronach

According to the bottle this brewery made it into the Top 12 German breweries in 2019. Their location north in the rural Oberpfalz which borders Czechia is a fair sign that this one might be a goodie. And it is.

This is a really fair approximation to Pilsner Urquell. Slightly less bitter but also less buttery/diacetyl. In most other respects very similar. A mouthfilling texture and substantial bitterness leaves an aftertaste that is bright, bitter but warm - not sharp. The head on the beer remains in place and just like Pilsner Urqell the froth bathes your tongue every time. So well balanced, pointedly bitter.

If this beer had a Czech label and purported to be from over the border I honestly wouldn't be able to tell. This is what German pils should be like, but mostly isn't. This is what all pils should be like, but mostly isn't. Every single fucking drop of this is gold.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 29, 2020, 09:40:41 PM
As these reviews seem to get more interaction than those I write about late stage capitalism, I will continue:

(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_04_04/9bf9f04b7544f807e28c383205a0eff9_640x640.jpg)

Rawetzer Zoigl (5.0% Zoigl/Kellerbier) ****
Brauerei Nothhaft (https://www.brauerei-nothhaft.de/), Marktredwitz

Here is a pale zoiglbier, showing once again that the 'style' refers to the tradition not a brewing technique or anything specific. A zoigl so far has been anything from a thick almost chalky dry black beer to a zesty citric pale lager. Mostly somewhere in between, but that's quite a gap.

What we have really is an attempt at kellerbier. It has a vibrant amber colour (much more so than the image above indicates) and fairly cloudy with just a little light seeping through. An aroma is not really detectable, by me at least. In the mouth there's a lively zesty effervescent bitter note right at the front of your tongue. The unfiltered element provides it a lovely mouthfilling texture and a quite classic kellerbier aftertaste with spicy, faintly floral/agricultural notes. There's an element in there that feels quite masculine. Hard to describe. The oddly exotic experience of the past when trying a Fisherman's Friend or Victory Mint. Not in flavour, but in.... out-of-time, out of style.

Nevertheless, the distinct feature of this beer is the carbonation and up-front bitterness which gives you instant hit upon arrival in your mouth. This is an element which only really mellows towards the end as the beer loses its carbonation. You can really imagine this one being served in a stone mug and smashed, garrotted and left for dead on the picnic tables of Oberpfalz biergartens.


Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 29, 2020, 10:27:11 PM
(https://bier-scout.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/087-Sch%C3%BCbel-2.jpg)

Schubel A Frankish (4.9% Vollbier) - *****
Brauerei Schubel (https://www.schuebel-braeu.de/), Stadtsteinach

Of all the Franconian styles the one that's been a reliable but not show-stopping one is the sort of coppery brown vollbier. Usually plenty of flavour and well-brewed but fewer knock-your-socks off examples. You may remember this brewery were behind the lovely Nordeck Trunk Kellerbier. This one definitely is in that category, possibly better.

A woody mid-brown colour and quite hazy/unfiltered. There is a faint smell of resin and sap in the aroma. Not strong, but almost like tearing some bark away from a tree. That fresh. The mouthfeel is out of this world good. The flavour, the bitterness, the full texture pings around like you're racking up bonus points on a pinball machine. It wants to be hoppy, it wants to be malty, it wants to be thick, it wants to be complex yet it also wants to be light, delicate, mellow, subtle and drinkable. It succeeds at - everything.

What a jacuzzi and end-wank massage will do for your body this does for your mouth. You are drinking harmony, but not low-risk low-reward harmony. This reaches for the sky to pick a star out while its feet is firmly planted on the ground. You've got the admire the ambition, and doff your cap at the sheer ruthlessness behind wanting to make a beer that's this packed full of flavour yet high volume drinkable.

The mission behind this beer was to create the ultimate marketable Franconia beer. The beer that shows off everything Franconia does from light to dark. They've done it. Einer noch mein Herren!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 30, 2020, 05:19:03 PM
(https://www.brauerei-kundmueller.de/site/assets/files/1073/weiherer-landbier-1.jpg)

Weiherer Landbier (4.7% Landbier) - *** and a half
Brauerei Kundmuller (https://www.brauerei-kundmueller.de/en/weiherer-bier/klassiker/weiherer-landbier/), Weiher

"A beer just like our home. Golden like the sun, soft like our hills and fine like our grain. Brewed from Franconia’s best raw materials using exclusively renewable energies. The Weiherer Landbier, literally “country beer”, is an easy-drinking beer that goes well with the typical home-made specialties of our brewery inn. For our environment, our home and for you."

Brewed just outside Bamberg, Weiherer really know what they're doing if the Rauch and the Dunkel are anything to go by.

This beer shares quite a few similarities with English golden ale, albeit not quite as harvesty. If anything, this is what golden ale is striving to be, but trapped within its ale confines.

The first few sips weren't outstanding, a hint of gloop and cloy at the back, however once you get into it the hops start sticking out. There are some bright fizzly hops that sparkle around the centre of your tongue, which offsets the golden gentle sweetness. It really is aiming for high drinkability, and bittersweet balance.

As for malt character a nice grainy, bready base to the flavour develops over the course of it (a bit like with Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff).

I wouldn't say this was a killer beer personally, but it is a nice lager that's very close to Helles style. It evolves over the course of the drink. Starts off sweet and cloying, then in the middle becomes beautifully balanced with the refreshing and bitter sparkle, before that recedes into a gentle, pleasant and faintly floral/herby lager.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 30, 2020, 10:54:30 PM
Just to prove I'm not just an over-excitable hype merchant* I'm drinking a Gunther-brau Lagerbier Bernstein and this one is not very good, as in genuinely not particularly well brewed. Unbalanced malt bomb. Not sure why Hier-gibts-bier.de stocks this.

*all the time, at least
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 01, 2020, 07:28:15 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/8185/8419827276_c5666a21e8_b.jpg)

Fassla Zwergla (6.0% Munich Dunkel) - ****
Brauerei Fassla (https://www.faessla.de/english/), Bamberg

Now, this is a brewery I'm familiar with through trying a couple of their other beers, but further still, I have actually been to their pub in Bamberg (directly opposite Spezial).

I had heard this one was their best and it certainly is a notch above their pale lagers. The colour is chestnut brown, the aroma is incredibly autumnal. Roast malt and nut.

6.0% is quite strong so a few may be worried about this becoming overly sweet, however the roast malt here lingers at the back of your tongue and gives it a dryness and nuttiness that really prevents any cloying at all.

Great balance of complexity and drinkability. Not one to knock back, but very steady all the same. It's really nice!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 01, 2020, 07:56:55 PM
(https://www.pivnici.cz/foto/5a/fa6d7ac28e8f69149729e1934df04db.jpg)

Honig Posthornla (5.2% ...err...honey smoke beer?) ****
Brauerei Honig (http://www.brauerei-hoenig.de/), Tiefernellern

I had vaguely heard of this beer as being a well-reputed regional favourite, so this isn't as obscure as some. It is still the first time I've had it.

Half of it has been donated to my missus as she likes sweet beer/smokey beer. I wish I hadn't only bought one of these. So here you have a brown, slightly ruby full bodied beer with a generous sweetness but offset by nicely bitter quite assertive hops. It is bittersweet, and within all this already joyful mouthful there are gentle infusions of smoke among the roasted malt and floral honey tones that are so subtle they couldn't possibly cause any upset in and of themselves.

While there are some clearly Franconian elements this one is a one-off, not sure I can think of a beer quite like this. Perhaps a few amber Czech lagers have this depth. It's lovely.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 02, 2020, 08:17:08 PM
(https://www.disorder.dk/wp-content/GS6A3434.jpg)

Kapuziner Kellerweizen (5.1%, Hefeweizen) - ****
Kulmbacher Brauerei (https://www.kulmbacher.de/), Kulmbach

A better-known brand and brewery this time, Kulmbacher must be up there as one of the more successful big breweries in Germany, churning out 1.7m hectolitres a year of beer. If not quite as loved or downright raw and weird as some of the above I've been reviewing, their operation achieves a notch above the likes of Hacker-Pschorr, Augustiner, Paulaner, etc. Anyone who has bought from Beers of Europe may have had one or several of Kulmbacher's output.

This wheatbeer is one of those darker shade ones that are neither light nor dunkelweizen, somewhere in the middle Schneider Weisse Original is the best known of the style by far. This 'kellerweizen' pours nicely with a big thick sustained head, and the beer is very cloudy.

Aroma of clove and a faint rye/molasses thing going on somewhere in there. The beer has a lovely typically wheatbeer lightness in the mouth as though its suspended above the surface almost. There's extra-oomph to the flavour. Out go the citric and banana elements usually found in these beers and in come spices, grains and herbs, with a touch of not quite burnt, lets say mildly crackly caramel.

Balancing those flavours is a tricky one but it just about manages it (Alan). This is one to give a moment to and not just chug chug in the same way as a Franziskaner or similar. It's good, but Kuchlbauer Turmweisse and Schneider Original still a tad better.



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on July 02, 2020, 08:23:15 PM
Imagine my surprise when I got the small box of beer home from the farm to find one is named after my favourite word

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1629/0849/products/whapsw_2_600x600.jpg?v=1586351465)

Apparently its named after this burn near Hexham (and literally means "hit the weasel hard")

(http://img.geocaching.com/cache/6193f1f3-6913-4446-a589-dd30e7f3fbf4.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 02, 2020, 08:32:48 PM
Shame felt for a proud North Easterner for a local beer to be importing Kentish hops (east Kent at that).

Where are the beers brewed with local bogweed, thorns and moss?

I like the burn though, that's cracking.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 02, 2020, 09:08:17 PM
(https://biertastisch.de/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTMvMDQvMjgvMThfMjRfMjZfMzY5X3dlaXNzZW5vaGVfa2xvc3RlcnN1ZC5qcGciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIjE5MjB4MTIwMFx1MDAzRSJdLFsicCIsIndhdGVybWFyayJdXQ/weissenohe-klostersud.jpg)

Weissenohe Kloster-Sud (5.4%, Altfrankisch Landbier) - **** and a half
Klosterbrau Weissenohe (http://=http://www.das-wirtshaus-klosterbrauerei-weissenohe.de/), Weissenohe

Not all beers that start with 'oh......god that's good' end up that way. I've had a few that end up quite cloying or the excitement dissipates as it ends up one-note. That's a distinction that's routinely missed by beer tasters, award ceremonies etc. Right now millions of beer geeks out there will assert that they can tell how good a beer is pretty quickly after the first few sips, then place their taster aside and move on. This is just one man's opinion, but bollocks.

A beer is a live evolving thing, and judging a drink can only fairly be from first sip to last of a normal measure. From a 1/3 glass to a Maß  it changes over the course of the drink, just as your reaction changes according to mood, food, temperature, dehydration, etc. You can't make snap decisions about the stuff.

That said, I am now well through finishing this one and that first impression is remaining with me. Brown, chestnut colour and beautiful rich mixture of aromas. On a rare occasion, just by smelling it there's a sense of balance and harmony. Stronger than some, the robustness is matched by really striking hops, potentially dry-hopped (don't quote me on that) to achieve a best of both worlds of wonderful ruby sweetness and autumnal notes with big sparkling bitterness. This is a lager beating everything under the "American Red Ale" banner hands down.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on July 03, 2020, 07:43:55 AM
(https://biertastisch.de/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTMvMDQvMjgvMThfMjRfMjZfMzY5X3dlaXNzZW5vaGVfa2xvc3RlcnN1ZC5qcGciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIjE5MjB4MTIwMFx1MDAzRSJdLFsicCIsIndhdGVybWFyayJdXQ/weissenohe-klostersud.jpg)

Weissenohe Kloster-Sud (5.4%, Altfrankisch Landbier) - **** and a half
Klosterbrau Weissenohe (http://=http://www.das-wirtshaus-klosterbrauerei-weissenohe.de/), Weissenohe

Not all beers that start with 'oh......god that's good' end up that way. I've had a few that end up quite cloying or the excitement dissipates as it ends up one-note. That's a distinction that's routinely missed by beer tasters, award ceremonies etc. Right now millions of beer geeks out there will assert that they can tell how good a beer is pretty quickly after the first few sips, then place their taster aside and move on. This is just one man's opinion, but bollocks.

A beer is a live evolving thing, and judging a drink can only fairly be from first sip to last of a normal measure. From a 1/3 glass to a Maß  it changes over the course of the drink, just as your reaction changes according to mood, food, temperature, dehydration, etc. You can't make snap decisions about the stuff.

100% agree with this. Buying beer from craft bars, the tasting culture, or guidance from bartenders who have superficial taste notes or have tasted each beer, always reminds me of popular comic depictions of dance music vinyl shop culture where the attendant bigs up how much you're going to love this tune and plays a 20 second clip that showcases a superficial flavour of the song. You get the bastard home and it goes nowhere or like Bill Bailey's Magic Roundabout bit, you've bought something completely unrepresentative of the whole product.

I can't see that it's a good thing for any moderately experienced craft drinker who at least knows what to expect from different styles to drink in exclusively this way. Staff are usually very quick to replace a beer that's gone or even just bad. And as you point out, it's a totally inadequate way to assess a whole drink. It's certainly something I've done often and fair play to anyone who does, but rediscovering the pleasure (or displeasure) of buying blind and finding that whole drinks change for the better just as often as tasted drinks change (or don't) for the worse was a step forward for me
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 03, 2020, 02:51:47 PM
Wish you could have been there at certain crucial epoch defining conversations I have held on this topic to back me up.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on July 03, 2020, 02:52:08 PM
Shame felt for a proud North Easterner for a local beer to be importing Kentish hops (east Kent at that).

Where are the beers brewed with local bogweed, thorns and moss?

I like the burn though, that's cracking.

I always thought EKG was a variety of goldings rather than a geographic description of where the hops came from? I am probably wrong on that though. Can’t be arsed to google it, obviously.

Lazy, lazy man.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 03, 2020, 07:13:24 PM
You may be right, tbf no point even pretending my post was anything other than jocular needling of Blodwyn.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on July 03, 2020, 07:24:24 PM
Today and this evening, I've had a Schneider Weisse 07 and 01, a lovely clean Helles, a Tonkoko stout, tastes like a Bounty. Westmalle Dubbel, Karmeliet Tripel. Havin a great night, great laugh with my wife. Just about to rip into a Barnardo Douze. Ohhhhh let's have a beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on July 03, 2020, 07:28:11 PM
You may be right, tbf no point even pretending my post was anything other than jocular needling of Blodwyn.

Bottle of Farne Island from Hadrian Border Brewery (brewed in Newburn Industrial Estate on the River Tyne). nice puffin design.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on July 04, 2020, 12:45:35 AM
You may be right, tbf no point even pretending my post was anything other than jocular needling of Blodwyn.

Jocular needling of Blodwyn is to be encouraged at all junctures. Carry on.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on July 04, 2020, 05:00:13 PM
Drinking wheat beer like its so much buttered white toast :) :( :)

I can't get enough of this foamy, hazy, tangy, creamy, bread drink
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 05, 2020, 09:32:54 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DentUckW0AAjBdk.jpg)

Monschof Zoigl (5.4% Zoiglbier) - ****
Kulmbacher Brauerei Aktien-Gesellschaft, Kulmbach

Another commercial adoption of the Zoigl branding. The brewery make some good stuff considering their size, and if this was branded as a kellerbier I'd have understood. It isn't like other pale or dark Zoigl I've had though.

5.4% is fairly strong for both styles, but the effect is you have a classic thick, amber, biscuity sweet beer akin to wheatbeer, but instead backed up by a spicy hoppy aftertaste instead of wheatbeer smoothness. It's easy to imagine this being a tad better on tap too, as there is a hint of that distinct freshness that makes kellerbier (and prime condition cask ale) such an appealling prospect.

This one grew on me as it went along, and can recommend it. While it may not be as quirky as some we've seen, it would be a new flavour experience for most people who aren't acquainted with the style, and a nice robust example of it too.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Dex Sawash on July 05, 2020, 10:04:41 PM
(https://production-endpoint.azureedge.net/images/64QJ4E9O6PFJAC1GF0QJ0C0/2d646e0f-7fa3-4009-9a18-6e04260250ab/152986_500x500.png)

Tempted to try this from Lidl (america) but not sure I want to burden myself with 12 of them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 05, 2020, 10:11:49 PM
Only 136 checkins on untapped. 2.27 rating

Most positive comments

'Not bad after a long morning of yard work'
'Better than Bud at least'


Least positive comments

'Awful of the awful.'
'Trash'

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 06, 2020, 10:31:29 PM
(https://brewme.one/onewebmedia/Schuebel%20Braeu%20Drachenseidla.JPG)

Pressecker Drachenseidla (4.9%, Kellerbier) ****
Brauerei Schubel (https://www.schuebel-braeu.de/produkte-der-brauerei-schuebel/drachenseidla.html), Stadtsteinach

Brauerei Schubel has among the best records so far on this journey, with their Nordeck Trunk and A Frankisch kellerbiers scoring very highly for my tastes. This beer Drachenseidla, well it has a nice illustration of a dragon on it which is a nice start. I was waiting for some sort of tenuous connection explaining the name but there doesn't really seem to be one.

It poured reasonably well and is a hazy light brown colour; agricultural hues, putting it euphemistically. You'd book in for a checkup if your piss was this colour. No strong aroma.

One of the most notable elements is its hoppiness and spice which have clearly been pushed to the forefront. Yes there's a dose of sweet malt with it which gradually takes effect as the drink progresses, but the balance errs towards bitter, which itself develops into a more complex flavour and mouthfeel by the spice and tang from the unfiltered lagering. Floral bitterness remains in the aftertaste, a feature character of most kellerbier.

While it isn't as outstandingly good as the 2 I mentioned above from this brewery, it would at most other German breweries be a fine signature beer. It's raw, fresh, showing what great lager is really about.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 07, 2020, 05:29:14 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91e9Sbfk3mL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)

Wurth Zoigl-Hell (5.3% Zoiglbier) ****
Privatbrauerei Wurth, Windischeschenbach

A few weeks ago I reviewed this brewery's Zoigl-Dunkel, which was both a new style on me and a totally different flavour. The brewery is based in a town which is the heart of the Zoiglbier community in the Oberpfalz. The bottle boasts 'craft beer since 1885'. I wasn't sure what to expect with their Hell, though was prepared for something along the lines of a pale kellerbier. Once again they've served up something pretty distinct.

The appearance doesn't look like it will be hiding any secrets. Golden and unfiltered, it's an attractive colour. The aroma is where you start to go 'hang on, something interesting here'. There's a sort of leathery faint smoky aroma you wouldn't find in your average lager.

Turns out this is somewhere between a dortmunder type lager with bready, white toast flavours and a weird Franconian lager that is both slightly fruity (red berries, am I going mad?) and smokey. A really difficult one for me to describe. The balance errs towards the rich sweet and savoury elements and less on the bitterness. There's an absolutely trad unfiltered lager finish that's quite tangy and spicy. I would say that it's also well balanced. There is still enough going on in the Spalter hops to tie it all together, but it's happy doing the donkey work and not being the standout feature.

Another lager that forces a rethink about where lager sits vs ale. Seriously, can we have more lagers like this one around please?



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on July 07, 2020, 06:20:22 PM
That sounds amazing.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 08, 2020, 09:55:07 PM
(https://www.brewgene.com/sites/default/files/beer_images/user65943_305495_1541452423.jpg)

Monschof Marzen (5.5% Marzen) ****
Kulmbacher Brauerei Aktien-Gesellschaft, Kulmbach

This beer is distinctly different to the above, though no less enjoyable. To channel Ed Miliband, let me explain why

Yes, it's a Marzen of course, so not...whatever ^ that one was above. 5.5% which is typical of the style. Strong, less hoppy and sweet tends to be the way with Marzens. They have a caramel/golden quality and are seen a treat - a few people may have tried Oktoberfest Marzens which are even sweeter and stronger (6.0% is average).

To balance the sweetness and strength it's important not to make it over-heavy, over-honeyed and becoming cloying. It's really important not to just over-do the malt so it doesn't sink the beer into a black hole of off-tasting defects (common problem with Eastern European attempts at strong pale lager). This beer has such a lovely thick floaty mouthfeel, which is part of the key to its success. Some of these strong lagers you swallow quickly to avert the malt and gloop to shortcut to their enjoyable sweet and crisp aftertaste, but this sits nicely to savour. When it's ready to 'land', the hops succinctly tie everything together with a lovely mouthfilling twang and sparkle before the lightest and easiest aftertaste of faint honeysuckle and ooh..sweet greens lingers at the back. Sugarsnaps, or something like that, somewhere in there.

You'll never have had a non-wheat beer of such strength that achieves such a floaty lightness. Most strong beers tend to go full on for either malt or hops. This one has found another way, by playing with the texture. Brilliant.

This is very similar to a high quality 'Jasne Pelne' Polish lager, which I know will put some people off immediately, but it's the Rolls-Royce of that style. It would sell by the metric fucktonne in Olsztyn and Bialystok. Perhaps Spiz's Jasne in Wroclaw could be mentioned in the same breath as this one.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sheffield Wednesday on July 10, 2020, 06:03:00 PM
On a Paulaner Dunkel Weiss. Forrest DUNK. It's actually quite OK, kind of wholemeal toast just before it gets burnt. Is it as nice as non-Dunkel weisse? No.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on July 10, 2020, 09:19:12 PM
Having a Guldenberg for the first time. Liking it A LOT.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 10, 2020, 09:22:19 PM
Ah, De Ranke! Those guys are amazing. The Kriek is the biggest fistful of fucking cherry Barnes-Wallis endwar of the style you could imagine.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on July 10, 2020, 10:51:57 PM
Ordered a random b@rgain box from Beer Hawk. Got a bottle of Wicked Weed La Bonté among them:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/30581/176462/

Shouldn't work but it does. Tastes nothing like perry, very refreshing.

Also on seeing it was an unfiltered wild beer made with a Brettanomyces strain I had to chuck some of it into a Kilner jar with some flour and water so I can find out what some bread made with this yeast will taste like. Watch this space.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 12, 2020, 07:54:25 PM
(https://www.mexgrocer.co.uk/images/product/l/Ocho%20Reales%20Ale%20355ml.JPG?t=1593770432)

Had a bottle of this last night with a Mexican take away. Nice, very malty.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on July 17, 2020, 06:02:48 PM
Finally sparked one of the Hanssens beers from my last order, an Oude Kriek.

I was prepared for it to be sour, but fucking hell, this is like drinking straight Sarsons. What there is of the cherries is funky and leathery, the vinegar oveetones simply destroy any lingering finish or development of flavour profiles. It has an aggressive, oily mouthfeel that makes your teeth buckle and I'm not warming to it. Not sure what there is to enjoy, but at £4 a bottle, I'm still drinking it.

You could definitely pickle eggs with this.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 17, 2020, 06:03:49 PM
Send it to my house now please.

I totally understand by the way, first few I had were like what are you fuckin on about.

That Rodenbach Grand Cru a few people recommended is basically half very malty vinegar, half red wine vinegar, but also fruity and salty and woody. Fuckkkkk. I want one.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on July 17, 2020, 06:12:05 PM
Send it to my house now please.

I totally understand by the way, first few I had were like what are you fuckin on about.

That Rodenbach Grand Cru a few people recommended is basically half very malty vinegar, half red wine vinegar, but also fruity and salty and woody. Fuckkkkk. I want one.

I'm a big fan of the Rodenbach stuff, Grand Cru included. This however, this is in a totally different league.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on July 17, 2020, 06:14:36 PM
The Grand Cru is mega stuff, this oude sounds like shit
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on July 17, 2020, 06:17:22 PM
The Grand Cru is mega stuff, this oude sounds like shit

I've got another five different beers from the same brewery, i fear they're all gonna be in this same brutal vein.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on July 17, 2020, 08:00:43 PM
Absolutely smashing bottle after bottle of Augustiner Helles. Tasty.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 18, 2020, 08:16:56 AM
I love Rodenbach Grand Cru.

Hanssens Kriek is more gnarly than that then?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on July 18, 2020, 02:41:04 PM
I love Rodenbach Grand Cru.

Hanssens Kriek is more gnarly than that then?
They're poles apart. The Hanssens is the closest I've come to drinking straight vinegar. Horrendous.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 18, 2020, 03:53:14 PM
No mention of vinegar in the flavour description I just read, unlike Bourgogne de Flandres which is a famously vinegary Flanders red. Could have been a bad bottle? Either way I am intrigued.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 20, 2020, 08:07:03 AM
Some updates on my trip to Bavaria

Weltenburger Abbey - very busy but a beautiful place and the ferry along Danube Gorge to reach it is well worth the excursion. Their Asam Bock is magnificent. Served in a steinkrug too.

Weisses Brauhaus - Schneider Weisse beer hall in Kelheim. A nice venue but disappointingly only 1 of its entire range on tap. Couldn't believe it. That was a venue on my beer bucket list.

Kneitinger - A really nice big brewpub in Regensburg with very cool old Gaststatte room. Their beers are terrific from the Munich Dunkel to the Sommerbier, a kind of ambery helles.

Bierwerk - it still remains the place in Nuremberg to try Franconian beers. The lineup was a who's who in local brewing. Incredible. Had a Wiethaler Landbier. So smooth when compared with the bottled stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 20, 2020, 09:03:11 AM
Have a Vector Ventinus on me!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 20, 2020, 11:41:43 AM
Have a Vector Ventinus on me!

Prost! Btw, You would shit your hazmat pants spending longer than 5 minutes in Bavaria.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 20, 2020, 12:05:40 PM
Proper Schinken territory! I'm not surprised.

Have a good un and I'll enjoy the reports 🍻







OF YOUR DEATH
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 20, 2020, 12:10:37 PM
Shit news for me and Shoulders, Beer-Ritz in Headingley is closing.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 20, 2020, 12:18:03 PM
Shit news for me and Shoulders, Beer-Ritz in Headingley is closing.

That's terrible news. Any idea why?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 20, 2020, 12:45:00 PM
No, they just tweeted that they were closing the shop. Online orders will continue.

I'd guess Covid, it's not like they were in a good location for footfall anyway and three months shut can't have helped.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 20, 2020, 01:07:04 PM
I only gave them sympathy business lately as they have been overpriced for a while. But if they go online I have no reason to use them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 20, 2020, 01:47:55 PM
I spent 30 quid there yesterday.

Have you seen the prices in Growlers? Fucking robdogs. I suppose I'm going to have to bike up to Hop Shack now for cans, seeing as Village Liquor is never open when I go by.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 20, 2020, 03:00:12 PM
Yeah haven't been there for a while as the whole operation has turned into a wind up really. Used to be able to get good stuff to take out and drink in for between £3.20-4.80 only 2-3 years ago.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on July 20, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
Shit news for me and Shoulders, Beer-Ritz in Headingley is closing.

Oh that's rotten news. Used to love the long walk up there to pick up treats. Aside from covid I wonder if they've been a victim of their location and the rise in popularity of craft beers. Once upon a time it was one of the only shops, now presumably there's a handful better located and most bars doing takeout
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Smeraldina Rima on July 20, 2020, 07:50:16 PM
It's alright just turning into a Beer-Blockbuster.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 20, 2020, 09:51:50 PM
I would KILL for a nice beer - just not as much as Shoulders 😂😂😂
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on July 20, 2020, 10:05:43 PM
Kneitinger - A really nice big brewpub in Regensburg with very cool old Gaststatte room. Their beers are terrific from the Munich Dunkel to the Sommerbier, a kind of ambery helles.

Bierwerk - it still remains the place in Nuremberg to try Franconian beers. The lineup was a who's who in local brewing. Incredible. Had a Wiethaler Landbier. So smooth when compared with the bottled stuff.

Nice. Planning some day trips to Regensburg and Nürnberg when I next visit Munich, so will check out these fine establishments.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on July 21, 2020, 01:29:23 AM
Nice. Planning some day trips to Regensburg and Nürnberg when I next visit Munich, so will check out these fine establishments.

Went to the Andechs brewery via the S-Bahn on my stag. It was well good, so try and sneak that in for a day.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on July 21, 2020, 02:40:26 AM
Went to the Andechs brewery via the S-Bahn on my stag. It was well good, so try and sneak that in for a day.

That sounds like a plan. Did the Paulaner brewery tour last time I visited Munich, but I think the guide had just broken up with her boyfriend and kept bursting into tears throughout the tour. Was also unfortunate enough to visit on the day they were bottling Spezi (although I certainly can't complain about the amount of Weißbier they chucked down my neck afterwards).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 21, 2020, 08:53:37 AM
Bamberg REPORT

Schlenkerla - open and as good as ever. After a 1st in the biergarten we were able to move into the Schanke, the main pub room where the stuff is dispensed direct from the barrel. Quiet inside as people were out in the sunshine.

Fassla - Bit of a drab interior but nice range of range of beers

Spezial - only accepting visitors for dining.

Heading to Landbierparadies on Wodanstrasse in Nuremberg later today.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on July 21, 2020, 03:21:07 PM
That sounds like a plan. Did the Paulaner brewery tour last time I visited Munich, but I think the guide had just broken up with her boyfriend and kept bursting into tears throughout the tour. Was also unfortunate enough to visit on the day they were bottling Spezi (although I certainly can't complain about the amount of Weißbier they chucked down my neck afterwards).

That’s really funny and bleak. Perfect combo.

Had a blazing row with an ex girlfriend in the beautiful town of Tergensee. Another place worth visiting if you’re in and around Munich.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Smeraldina Rima on July 21, 2020, 03:33:35 PM
My wife's gone to a beautiful town near Munich.

Tergensee?

No, it's a beer tasting trip.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 21, 2020, 06:09:46 PM
My partner had Spezi earlier. Loved it.

Guess you could say she likes it Spezi
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 21, 2020, 06:41:06 PM
Just been to Forchheim. 3 days before Annafest starts. Glorious sunshine, no crowds

Neder is still brilliant. Barrel kellerbier for 2.60 and a really cool old pub with serving hatch.

Frankisch Bierstube has the amazing Mauerscheisser which was as good as I remember.

Now in Furth at Keimling drinking their haus dunkel, a really rich lovely beer.

One of the best 3 beers in a row for quite a while.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 21, 2020, 08:59:43 PM
Handy list of breweries to yeet, if confirmed.

https://twitter.com/gaedd/status/1285611601547137024
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 21, 2020, 10:31:30 PM
Too bad I won't be drinking their watered down rust wash ever again
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on July 22, 2020, 08:49:16 AM
Just ripped up my Hook Norton Brewery tour voucher in protest. Granted, it did expire in September 2013 but I think it still sends a strong message.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 22, 2020, 09:25:47 AM
I will teach these people the true meaning of DOOM BAR
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on July 22, 2020, 10:21:52 AM
Doom Bar isn't on there, that's Sharps. Good old lovely local Sharps (owned by Molson Coors). I do like a Wolf Rock mind you.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 22, 2020, 10:25:04 AM
Remember when Doom Bar was good?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 22, 2020, 12:18:23 PM
Very sad to see this selfishness, but this is a by-product of the factionalism in UK brewing. Some faintly terrified breweries with mature and quite unfashionable brands with a slowly dying out audience defending their position that has been othered by the craft scene. Granted, cunts and decent people across the board too.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 22, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
English beer has the thinnest taste of any drink, including water.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DocDaneeka on July 22, 2020, 02:51:31 PM
I do like a pint of Landlord every now and then but I don't think the bottled stuff is up to much as with most English ales.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 22, 2020, 04:34:29 PM
I don't mind a pint of local English ale, but it usually has less flavour than simply breathing in.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on July 22, 2020, 05:18:38 PM
Handy list of breweries to yeet, if confirmed.

https://twitter.com/gaedd/status/1285611601547137024

Worth reading the thread as the initial list is inaccurate. Really glad to see Magic Rock are not on there. They always seemed a sound bunch and though they'll have lost their place in many bottle shops everything I've read suggests they've tried to responsibly balance the interests of their team, the local community and beer generally. The big inaccuracies seem to be Harbour and Beavertown who have both released statements distancing themselves
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 22, 2020, 06:26:30 PM
Yeah, my local lot have put this out:

https://www.kirkstallbrewery.com/sbdrcstatement/
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 22, 2020, 06:47:19 PM
Black Sheep too: https://twitter.com/BlackSheepBeer/status/1285977226706587648
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 22, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
https://twitter.com/mikestaproom/status/1285921769833017345?s=19

Gets murkier. Kirkstall appear.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on July 22, 2020, 07:58:53 PM
Yeah like read my posts, bastard.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on July 22, 2020, 08:01:12 PM
Yeah like read my posts, bastard.

I did, perhaps the order I read them suggested their statement was false.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on July 23, 2020, 03:56:01 PM
I've said it once and I'll say it again and again:

Feel like pure shit just wanna go to Framconia
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on August 08, 2020, 02:43:21 PM
Shout out for small bar on King Street Bristol which I think must be a left handed giant outlet. They have some good lager and wheat beers all made by LHG. Pilsners, Vienna Lagers, Steam Beers, Hefeweizen, India Pale and West Coast Pale Lagers whatever they are. Bit of a treat to find one good lager, let alone several!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on August 08, 2020, 04:06:19 PM
Done the big move lads, everything in a suitcase and fuck you later to Toronto. 8 years of Ontario beer expertise down the SHITTER.

Different province means different government-owned distribution for hooch so there will be basically no crossover as local breweries typically don’t bother paying duty to ship over provincial lines. I know very little about the breweries or imports in Nova Scotia so I’m back to square one. Out of quarantine and off to the liquor store in 11 days.

Let the games begin.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on August 14, 2020, 07:39:02 PM
Looking up breweries near me for the RAMPAGE when I’m out of quarantine. Look at the state of these cunts “unfiltered brewery”, but what’s their url?

https://unfuckingfiltered.com/

Ooh so edgy. The beer’s quite good, but I just can’t continue to patronize such a Nathan Barley endeavour.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on August 14, 2020, 07:42:52 PM
Lidl sells two cheap lagers, Perlenbacher and Bavaria. Perlenbacher is really good, but unfortunately comes in screw top bottles so less good for homebrew, which has pushed me on to Bavaria. It tastes fine, I guess, but makes me flatulent in a way no other beer has and also gives me a sore head the next day even with moderate amounts.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on August 14, 2020, 08:24:53 PM
I’ve always wondered how beer does that. Guinness seems to put an absolute hex on me, but it is basically exactly the same as any other beer (ie malty water, hop extract, some yeast).

Why does it make me feel like dirt when (say) Beau’s Lug Tread has me fresh as a daisy the next morning.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: BlodwynPig on August 14, 2020, 08:34:49 PM
Quote
Beau’s Lug Tread

The most North American sounding beer ever.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on August 14, 2020, 09:50:46 PM
Tried another one from my Hanssens batch, this time it was the Cassis. No where near as foul as the Oude Kriek, still unapologeticly sour but it mellowed in the glass. Had a vaguely meaty taste, unctuous with only a very vague fruit taste. Warmed to it more towards the end, but wouldn't buy again.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on August 14, 2020, 10:01:43 PM
Lidl sells two cheap lagers, Perlenbacher and Bavaria. Perlenbacher is really good, but unfortunately comes in screw top bottles so less good for homebrew, which has pushed me on to Bavaria. It tastes fine, I guess, but makes me flatulent in a way no other beer has and also gives me a sore head the next day even with moderate amounts.

I've always been inordinately bothered by the fact the Bavaria brewery is based in the Netherlands. Talk about misleading.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 14, 2020, 10:30:17 PM
So in the big Aldi/Lidl showdown what is better from Rheinbacher/Perlenbacher?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: The Culture Bunker on August 17, 2020, 09:48:40 PM
Lidl sells two cheap lagers, Perlenbacher and Bavaria. Perlenbacher is really good, but unfortunately comes in screw top bottles so less good for homebrew, which has pushed me on to Bavaria. It tastes fine, I guess, but makes me flatulent in a way no other beer has and also gives me a sore head the next day even with moderate amounts.
I remember they used to sell that for a quid a bottle in the Tescos near where I live. Not sure if that was overpriced or not.

As for Aldi, Rheinbacher is alright, but I prefer that other stuff, the name of which escapes me at the moment, that is £4 for 6x330ml bottles.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on August 17, 2020, 10:16:07 PM
The halcyon era of lockdown, waiting on orders from The Belgian Beer Company and the like, drinking English Trappist clove piss, Chef Rodley Grand Cru, and putting a Corsendonk on it. Feeling like pure shit and just wanting to go to Framconia.

Days are gone.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 17, 2020, 10:37:07 PM
As a signoff I drank my final beer from the Hier-Gibts-Bier.de packs, a Wansielder Doppelbock. Wonderful stuff I was saving for a rainy day. The day arrived, had dey time, now gone. Binned and done.

That brought the curtain down on the Drink In era for me.

I received a Flavourly box for my birthday from work colleagues. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth and all that but the beers are fucking aids toilet khmer rouge paedo caretaker level wank and I can't wait to upgrade them to piss and then eject them into the metaphorical and literal sewer system of history. Biowaste nonentity bullshit.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on August 17, 2020, 11:39:50 PM
Out of quarantine on Thursday. Straight into the liquor to pick up some beer and cannabis drinks which are the new thing round here. 2mg of THC per can so just the one will do me. Could be good, could be good.

(https://www.tweed.com/content/dam/tweed/drinks-landing-page/RTDs-Family-Large.png)

https://www.tweed.com/en/cannabis-infused-drinks-beverages
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DolphinFace on September 03, 2020, 03:47:28 PM
What do you reckon to this?

(https://www.fuerstenberg-beer.com/fileadmin/Mediendatenbank_COM/01_beers/premium-lager_flasche.png)

I've been drinking this on a nightly basis for the past 2 nights. Yeh man, that's 2 bottles of beer I've drunk this summer.

But JESUS is this the best LAGER I've ever had from a supermarket. I was on the Pilsner Urquell express train until I met this bitch.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 03, 2020, 05:10:51 PM
(https://www.pivnizasilka.cz/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/WhatsApp-Image-2020-06-29-at-11.56.04-e1593426864598-1080x810.jpeg)
(https://www.pivnici.cz/foto/80/c3faa03c6ec99b8d33215af571965eb.jpg)

13° Jantarova (Amber Lager, 4.9%) ****
Vinohradsky Pivovar, Prague, Czechia

I haven't done one of these reviews for a while as pubs have been open and I've been leaving out home drinking. However I was in York yesterday and popped into House of Trembling Madness to discover that local distributory James Clay & Sons have supplied them with the above beer (among 4 or 5 others) from fairly new kid on the block brewery, Vinohradsky Pivovar, which was (as of 2013) and still is a popular modern brewpub in Prague's Vinohrady (wine hills) district.

I quite like their branding as it simultaneously looks old and new. There's a fine line when going retro, but increasingly breweries are finding it, with Uneticky Pivovar and the recent rebranded Tetley's as good examples.

Anyway, I only had space for 2 beers so picked up Hopf Dunkel Weisse and this 13° amber lager from Prague.

The denominations of amber/semi-dark lagers in Czechia are very hard to wrap your head around, but Jantarova, as I understand it, is similar to vollbier/landbier in Bavaria. It's amber, full flavoured, malty and floral bitterness. But of course, there's the inimitable Czech flavour going on as well. So really, this is a great beer, combining rural Bavarian kellerbier with Czech brewing techniques. The latter accounts for it's ridiculously high drinkability considering the flavour. It lasted 20 minutes and I already feel like I have had 3 too few.

Just like its branding, it is both modern and traditional in harmony with one another.

Anyone in Yorkshire should search local bottleshops for this one - it's lovely!

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on September 03, 2020, 05:42:53 PM
I forgot to post my beery tour around Halifax. It’s been quite a change, I don’t recognize any breweries so every trip to the liquor store is a crap shoot (and an expensive one - a tin of beer is $5, so 4 cans would be about 13 quid. Sometimes more. Getting a poor one ruins your evening).

Initial thoughts - there’s a lot less of a craft scene here. All restaurants and bars will have a solid selection from the 4 or 5 more “established” craft breweries, maybe one or two options from the smaller guys. It all feels a fair few years behind Toronto or the UK, you can still find those absurd 9% poorly brewed astringent IPAs that were fucking everywhere in 2012 and I’ve seen at least one brewery using warrior and magnum hops as aroma/late additions, to the point of including it prominently on the can. That says to me the brewery doesn’t really know what it is doing, but neither does Joe Public because that wouldn’t fly with metro Toronto beer nerds.

I’ve found that an IPA is a very good indicator of a brewery’s overall output - if they can get this right, the rest of their stuff is likely worth trying. So far, I’ve been impressed with Roof Hound, Breton Brewing, Big Spruce, Nine Locks and whatever North Brewing have rebranded to (Compass or something?)

The smaller breweries I’ve walked to and visited with Ferris Jr have been good so far, including Unfiltered with their wanky URL and Good Robot who I’d rate higher if they weren’t selling an utter abomination in cans called “terpene ale” which looks and tastes like washing up leavings. Rest of their stuff is very good though. Two Crows have some solid stuff, but also one which was the worst beer I’ve had since moving here. I considered tipping in down the sink it was so bad. It had big 2011 “we don’t know what we’re doing but we read about hops in a brewing book from the 1970s” energy.

I straight up do not get the ubiquity or Boxing Rock, Garrison, or Propellor breweries. Bang average at best, but been operating from the beginning of the craft beer boom so I guess they’ve wormed their way in.

It looks like I’m going to have to start importing my own beer across provincial lines which is an expensive pain in the arse, and also dust off my brewing gear. The stupid level of tax on alcohol means there is a very healthy home brewing community here which is awesome, and I suspect I’d be able to match the level of commercial beer available without too much hassle. Such is life.

Sorry, no one has to read that boring esoteric wall of text. Apologies.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on September 03, 2020, 05:43:27 PM
^Shoulders that’s a lovely can design by the way.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 03, 2020, 06:07:32 PM
Yeah, even the logo is pretty clever as far as stuff like that goes.

Quote
Sorry, no one has to read that boring esoteric wall of text. Apologies.

I'd like to be able to contribute something in response to that. The only thing I can think of is to point out you do not mean Halifax, West Yorkshire.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on September 03, 2020, 06:54:31 PM
I do not. I imagine I’d be able to get a better range of beers at a Yorkshire tesco metro there than here to be honest.

Still, we live in hope. Only just got started and going to the shops in a sec so I’m going to roll the dice again.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on September 03, 2020, 10:12:38 PM
I do not. I imagine I’d be able to get a better range of beers at a Yorkshire tesco metro there than here to be honest.

Still, we live in hope. Only just got started and going to the shops in a sec so I’m going to roll the dice again.

Just found a seriously good pale ale. Like properly, properly excellent. Delighted.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on September 03, 2020, 10:42:45 PM
In a turn of events I've been really enjoying juicy fruity pales since I discovered how much better this style of beer is suited to <4.5% draft beers. I still can't really get on with their stronger counterparts. The body, the alcohol hiding below the low bitterness, sweet, gloopy liquid. Urgh. But I am won over by some of the crisper, lighter, session versions, particularly those brewed by Deya, who I'm lucky enough to be around the corner from.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: robhug on September 04, 2020, 09:55:42 AM
can you still get cans with a widget
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 08, 2020, 09:08:57 PM
(https://www.trappist.be/media/1131/achel-beer-bi%C3%A8re-bier.jpg?width=250&height=361)

Achel Blond (8% Belgian Strong Blonde)  ****
De Achelse Kluis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achel_Brewery), Hamont-Achel

I thought I'd write this up as it isn't quite as common as some of the other accredited Trappist brewers. Achel will be a name Belgian beer fans will be familiar with, though they are a lower volume producer than Chimay, Westmalle etc and their two beers that are relatively easy to access are the Blonde and the Bruin (though they also do an Extra Bruin, a Quadrupel, which can be sampled at the brewery's café.)

Not blonde so much as light amber, with a bit of haze to it. It's difficult to know whether to call this a Belgian Tripel or a Belgian Strong Blonde. What's the difference? Well, the former can be sweeter and spicier, indulgent but hanging on a tightrope of bittersweet flavour, whereas the latter (Duvel being a good example) tends to be more bitter edged and grassy.

With Achel Blonde you end up with a bit of both. There's a clovey, spicy, and yeasty aroma which are also qualities that form the first mouthful. The quality of the foam and the carbonation in your mouth with the hops and spices creates a lingering tingle at the back of your tongue. A nice one - that very particular Belgian sensation. (One I miss dreadfully after a while, and as it happens, is more or less absent from the UK craft scene)

Good strong Belgian blonde ales hide a lot of booze behind the quite dramatic burst of flavours in your mouth. Although there are elements of candy sweetness the bitter hops hit back at them while the effervescence wraps it all up in a seductive package. Achel's blonde is one that's skillfully well balanced and would be up in the top 10-15% of Belgian beers of a similar style and strength I've tried.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 08, 2020, 10:01:16 PM
My next-door neighbour has just opened a brewery.

Me now:
(https://thumbsnap.com/s/vvQfcPPw.png?src=ts20200501)

Me by about October:
(http://fastshow.20m.com/images/jesse.jpg)

Update pls
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on September 10, 2020, 04:20:01 PM
It's German week at Aldi (obviously every week is German week at Aldi, but you know what I mean) and I couldn't resist these zwei Damen

(https://i.imgur.com/5cLUXkd.jpg)

More for novelty value then anything - at 99p a pop I don't expect they're up to much. They also had 0,5l Franziskaner Hefe Weiss at £1.50 a bottle, less than it costs in other UK supermarkets.

Plenty more German delicacies too. Lots of Spätzle.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 10, 2020, 04:34:22 PM
No sign of those on Untappd, not an Aldi-UK commissioned creation, at least not one anyone has registered exists.

A 99p festbier certainly sounds unusual. What % abv is that?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on September 10, 2020, 04:38:27 PM
Another strike against Good Robot here in Halifax (a brewery I desperately want to like as it will probably end up as one of my locals). Asked and paid for 2 tins of stout, “no worries scout” into the brown paper bag to comply with absurd liquor laws, got it home, they’d given me 2 tins of fucking pineapple wheat beer.

Despite their edgier than thou marketing, I am finding some good stuff at Unfiltered Brewing. The exploratory expedition continues...
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on September 10, 2020, 05:26:51 PM
A 99p festbier certainly sounds unusual. What % abv is that?

5.5 the Fest, 5.0 the Wheat.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 10, 2020, 05:45:00 PM
5.5 the Fest, 5.0 the Wheat.

Ah dear. 0.5% weaker than both should be. I expect both will be baseline drinkable.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on September 10, 2020, 06:09:22 PM
Oh hang on it was Lidl. FFS, I can't tell the difference.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on September 11, 2020, 12:19:12 PM
Had the Festbier. 'Inoffensive' is probably the best compliment I can pay it. At least it didn't make me feel faintly nauseous like their Perlenbacher stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on September 11, 2020, 02:08:43 PM
Another disappointing IPA for me last night. Mediocre is the best review I can give. Propellor Brewery, you are so close (geographically) but so far (beer-ically)*

That said! It came in those tins that have huge ringpulls on that take the whole top of the can off (like cat food). It’s a lot more like drinking out of an aluminum “glass” rather than drinking from a tin.

So they get points for that, at least.

*they have some good darker beers, to be fair
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 11, 2020, 02:19:04 PM
Those cans have made some stunted appearances in the UK. I'm not convinced. It feels instinctively weird drinking out of those such cans, and they're easier to spill. I guess the top has a sharp edge which comes completely off from the can. Not sure of the need, really.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on September 11, 2020, 02:24:53 PM
It’s novelty bullshit, but it brightened my evening. Never seen one before and made me feel like I was camping (not sure why).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 11, 2020, 02:49:05 PM
It’s novelty bullshit, but it brightened my evening. Never seen one before and made me feel like I was camping (not sure why).

I thought it was more of a North American thing? I had only seen them on US tv shows up to now.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on September 11, 2020, 02:54:04 PM
I thought it was more of a North American thing? I had only seen them on US tv shows up to now.

Never even heard of them until I found one in my fridge last night. Technically booze has to be concealed as you leave a licensed premises (ridiculous), and most tins (in Nova Scotia, not anywhere else for some reason) have those joining 4 pack cap things on top like this:

(http://atoz.rirrc.org/img/items/A3h5NE_plastic-6-pack-holder.jpg)

So the surprise was doubly concealed until I went to open one.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on September 11, 2020, 05:24:04 PM
Definitely seen some of these cans in UK supermarkets, Co-OP I think and a Danish or Swedish brewery. The beer was decent enough but it was quite an odd experience. It makes sense if you're buying beer for the aroma and flavor because drinking it from something that dispenses through a 1cm^2 hole is counterproductive. If you're buying beer that tastes like water and old nails, the ring pull is well suited
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on September 13, 2020, 02:42:01 PM
VERY tempted by this:

https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/advent-calendar
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: spaghetamine on September 13, 2020, 02:55:13 PM
Currently drinking some unidentified polish beer that came in a big plastic bottle, think this is what they call a 40 over in the states
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 13, 2020, 04:50:59 PM
Unidentified?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: spaghetamine on September 15, 2020, 09:52:13 PM
Unidentified?

there wasn't any english on the label
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 15, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
But it had some writing on though, like a brand name?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: bgmnts on September 15, 2020, 10:11:29 PM
Currently drinking Morrisons Savers bitter shandy! Closest i'll get to an ale til christmas.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: spaghetamine on September 15, 2020, 10:14:58 PM
But it had some writing on though, like a brand name?

just realized it definitely wasn't polish because it was all cyrillic characters, feeling foolish
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 15, 2020, 10:26:29 PM
Probs Ukraine. Guessing Lvivske.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on September 25, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
Feel like pure shit just wanna go to Framconio

(https://www.biermarket.de/media/image/66/b9/5d/AltbairischDunkel_unfiltriert_430x_600x600.png)

Just popping in to say fuckin hell Shoulders, you changed my life, dawg. All I drink is this German stuff these days. Keller, Dunkel, Weisse, Jahrhundert. Ich auch!

Been beasting Schlenkerla Weizen like the shit's liquid bacon butties, because it fuckin is. Hope everyone is well, I'm praying I can get a visa soon and fuck offffff but TFD2.0 might scupper me til the new year. In the meantime, Framconio Life.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 26, 2020, 08:35:58 AM
Beers available by region of Bavaria:

Franconia - Landbier, kellerbier, Zwickl, Rotbier, Rotweisse, vollbier, Maibock, Dunkel, Rauchbier, Steinbier
Oberpfalz - Zoigl bier culture, and the above
Oberbayern - Helles bier, Hefe and dunkelweizen, Maibock, Doppelbock, Fest bier and Marzen, and Munich Dunkel. Leichtbier too I guess.
Swabia - Like Oberbayern but not as good
Niederbayern - Helles, and Saaz based Pilsner, Dampfbier and Roggenbier started here I believe.

Finding many of these beers even in other regions of Germany is very difficult, in some towns seemingly impossible (on tap anyway).

Nord Rhine Westphalia - saved by all the Altbier and Kolsch. Outside of Cologne and Dusseldorf their pubs will usually serve at least Alt, Kolsch, Wheatbeer and Pils which is a fair selection. Dortmunder lager appears in the Ruhr which can very wildly in quality.
Brandenburg - Gratzer, Lichtenhainer, Kottbusser (though you won't find much of it about in normal pubs, they are making a comeback)
Hesse, Rhineland-Palatinate, and Saarland - Shitpit of Bitburger and Krombacher. Apfelwein available.
Mecklenburg & Schleswig Holstein - Horribly gassy sharp joyless pils.
Niedersachsen - Rubbish pils mainly but greater variety of decent lager as you head south.
Saxony & Saxony Anhalt - Gose, Bockbier and Schwarzbier enliven things
Thuringia - Schwarzbier
Berlin - technically Berliner Weisse except you won't see anyone drinking it, however you will find loads of good Czech lagers for sale. A bad attempt at Pale Ale is commonly found too.
Baden Wurttemberg - Heavily reliant on and influenced by Bavaria.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on October 01, 2020, 02:32:06 PM
Seasonal bargain alert: Oktoberfest beers now on reduction at Booths (click to enlarge image for label legibility)

(https://i.imgur.com/PMG5uk3.jpg)

I guess the same might be true of Waitrose or whatever ersatz Booths you Southern types have.


Just don't be getting any of this shit

(https://i.imgur.com/nK7x6qa.jpg)

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 01, 2020, 10:25:31 PM
Fucking Booths won't come nearer than Ilkley :(
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on October 01, 2020, 11:13:13 PM
X84.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pingers on October 02, 2020, 09:53:13 PM
Does anyone know a reliable UK source of Danish beer? It's coming round to that time of year for Jylebryg, and I would also dearly love to get my filthy mitts on some Tuborg Classic (a dark lager).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 02, 2020, 10:16:42 PM
Aside of craft beer, I'm afraid not. Have you tried

https://bottleshops.online/

This place is a directory of online bottle shops where you can get a crate of beers in. There may be Danish stuff lurking about.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 07, 2020, 10:07:51 PM
It's obvious Lockdown #2 is on the way, so as a pre-emptive strike I have gone back on Speciaalbierpakket.nl (https://www.speciaalbierpakket.nl/?Lng=en) to order a shipment of Belgian beer.

Even if the UK government keeps pubs open when mass graves are being dug into school playing fields, it will still be a nice Reminiscipackage to relieve the good times:

Quote
St. Bernardus Tripel 33cl   1       € 1,80   
St. Bernardus Pater 6 33cl   1       € 1,80   
Rochefort 6   1       € 1,80   
La Trappe Tripel   1       € 1,80   
St. Bernardus Prior 8 33cl   1       € 1,80   
Duchesse de Bourgogne   1       € 1,80   
Corsendonk Agnus   1       € 1,80   
Augustijn Blond   1       € 1,80   
Leffe Tripel   1       € 1,80   
Brugse Zot Blond   1       € 1,85   
Karmeliet Tripel   1       € 1,85   
La Trappe Quadrupel   1       € 1,95   
Gouden Carolus Classic   1       € 1,95   
Val-Dieu Brune 33cl   1       € 1,95   
Gulden Draak 9000 Quadrupel   1       € 1,95   
Keizer Karel Goud Blond   1       € 1,95   
Rochefort 8   1       € 2,00   
Val-Dieu Tripel 33cl   1       € 2,00   
Ter Dolen Tripel   1       € 2,00   
Wilderen Tripel Kanunnik   1       € 2,00   
St. Bernardus Abt 12 33cl   1       € 2,05   
Gruut Blond   1       € 2,15   
Rodenbach Grand Cru   1       € 2,20   
Weihenstephaner Vitus   1       € 2,25   
Deugniet   1       € 2,25   
Urthel Samaranth   1       € 2,25   
Scheldebrouwerij Zeezuiper   1       € 2,15   
Fort Lapin Tripel 8 1          € 2,15   

Mainly ones I'm familiar with, a few new ones thrown in to try. With a shipment to the UK being €19,95 this averaged out at £2.50 a bottle, which is much cheaper than the likes of BeerWulf, BeerHawk, Beers of Europe (I suppose because their business adds another step in the process). Westmalle Tripel is £2.50 in Morrisons and they're kind of a big deal, so fuck it, why not just get a Bernardo box in + cut out the middle men?

For those tempted to visit the vaunted Belgium in a Box, which is still subject to long delays apparently, I ordered this lot yesterday and at the time of writing it has already been packaged,  sent to the sorting office for shipping and been sorted. The pandemic shipment arrived in something like 4 days, which takes some good luck with shipment timings but beats waiting 2 months or something like the unlucky Blodders suffered.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 09, 2020, 08:56:06 AM
Apparently it's getting delivered today. Lightning service from the Dutch lads.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 09, 2020, 01:13:04 PM
Apparently it's getting delivered today. Lightning service from the Dutch lads.

Arrived this morning. So somewhere between Wednesday evening (what I would assume was after close of business) and 11.30 this morning they managed to assemble and box the order, have it posted, collected and sorted for shipment, shipped from Netherlands to the UK, checked and passed over to Hermes who then logged it, shipped it and delivered it.

Fuck me.

Meanwhile Parcel Force managed to deliver the present to my sister for her civil partnership (not beer) to the wrong address, where some cunt has signed for it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DocDaneeka on October 09, 2020, 02:38:25 PM
Not got the new Rochefort Triple extra Blond? Come on sort it out Shoulders!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 09, 2020, 05:52:46 PM
Not got the new Rochefort Triple extra Blond? Come on sort it out Shoulders!

Wasnae there to buy. Would have got some if it was at a reasonable price. I'll do my usual and wait for the rush to die down.

Pale Rochefort though, something not right about that. Something was nice about a brewery doing dark ales only. Even U Fleku in Prague is now brewing a Svetly Lezak after decades of having only one wonderful dark lager. Dny jsou pryč.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 09, 2020, 08:12:49 PM
(https://www.weihenstephaner.de/fileadmin/_processed_/9/c/csm_Vitus_3486be244e.png)

Weihenstephaner Vitus (7.7% Weizenbock) **** and a half
Staatsbrauerei Weihenstephan, Freising

I know this beer is one several here will have tried but we are staring into the Covid abyss again, and so I may as well fill the void with beer reviews.

Weizenbock is one of my favourite styles of beer. There are light weizenbocks like this one and Ayinger, as well as darker ones (eg. Schneider Weiss Aventinus, Erdinger Pikantus). They're usually indulgent, often incredible.

This is a fair bit stronger than the 5.4% hefeweissbier, which is an already pretty full flavoured banana/clove classic, rendered super drinkable by the thick, yet light wheat. Is there a liquid equivalent of fluffy? Sorry for falling an adjective short. Liquid fluffy is the placemarker until we find the right term.

While the standard wheatbeer has a slight orange/amber tinge, the colour of Vitus is slightly yellow/straw like, and of course unfiltered. With Vitus all the flavour elements are more pronounced. Immediately a whole lot more spice is noticeable up front and after swallowing, which results in a distinctive finish, not unlike Gruit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruit), which was a common feature of Northern European beer before the art of hopping was understood and properly utilised. The head on it remains in place the whole way through, always a good sign (clean your glass first too).

As with a lot of traditional brewers no Weihenstephan beer, including their doppelbock Korbinian, is as in-your-face as craft varieties. They are all pitched to balance flavour and drinkability, and this shows with the Vitus. It wouldn't stand out from a third of it, but you'd definitely take a pint of it over some craft beers. There is a skill to brewing strong beer that doesn't taste boozy and if anyone was really interested they could take a course at the campus based around Weihenstephan's brewery which is part of the local college (https://www.tum.de/en/studies/studinews/issue-022016/show/article/32658/), another one of the marvellous things about this brewery. Having visited the site there is an almost monastic diligence to everything. A bit like Weltenberger and Kloster Andechs, they brew high volumes but the standard - for now - stays very high.

Ayinger weizenbock is a banana bomb sold in a smaller bottle, but this one is unashamedly sold by the half litre, because that makes sense based on how it is to drink. You can let a mouthful linger, or let it do the work in the background as you focus on something else - both are rewarding. You'd feel short changed by 0.33l of this.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on October 09, 2020, 10:21:05 PM
I've been using my local on the way home from work for a pint as I can go straight to the garden and it's empty, and I just order via table service. I say enjoy, but half the cask beers are off within a day of them going on and even the keg beers are on their last legs. I can't work out whether the problem is at pub or brewery end. Don't expect either as they're a decent pub that prides itself on decent, well kept beer, and the beers are from breweries I trust. Covid I guess. Sad state of affairs for a place that charges higher end prices for a well kept, quality product
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 14, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
(https://www.beerparadise.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/RODENBACH-GRAND-CRU.gif)

Rodenbach Grand Cru - 6% Flanders Red *****
Brasserie Rodenbach (Palm owned)

Flanders Red, ah, a truly love it or hate it style. Just as some cannot fathom sour beer, a bigger proportion of beer lovers presumably cannot imagine what a slightly tannic vinegary sour reddish brown ale could add to their lives. To older beer fans and to people who simply hate sour/vinegar the thought alone is repulsive. I can already picture BlodwynPig's face curling up, and I squirm in delight as he does so.

They have rebadged the beer for the 3rd time since I first came across it. The latest rather plain grey effort seems to be an attempt to woo the craft crowd if you ask me.  But no matter....

Sour beer was not an acquired taste for me, as I have always loved sweet/sour mixtures of food and drink. Some krieks (Belgian beer with sour cherry) lean towards this - especially Liefmans, and that's how I got into Oud bruin/Flanders Red. Careful oak aging is how this beer develops its complexity, far more than the pretty tame Rodenbach, which is nice enough (and among the cheaper beer options out in Belgium).

The colour is deep brown, with an aroma of damp cellars and faint vinegar that unlike normal beers really expresses its origins. It really has been steeping away somewhere cold and damp. The first taste is immediately of medium sourness, the flavours blended somewhere between juicy cherries, brown ale and drying woodiness. All are elements which dance in and out, depending which angle you focus on.

At 6% this isn't intended to be some extreme experiment but a realistically robust beer that stands up to the distinctive sour flavour. It's also a great value beer, because you don't need a lot of in your mouth to quench your thirst or to expose it. A trickle more than a sip of whisky will do it. And so you can make this beer last for an hour if you really want to. At the core of this beer - lingering, indulgent, deep flavour, and yet so effervescently tart is such an exquisite balance. Some beers are straight up made for people and this one was made for me.

Given the volume they produce of it, you can find Rodenbach Grand Cru in pretty much any European city somewhere. It has a reasonable claim to being, if not a mainstream beer, then the step below that. A commonly available beer in beery circles. It is probably my favourite beer on that step.

Also try: Vichtenaar, Vanderghinste, Bacchus Oud Bruin, Duchess de Bourgogne, Ichtegems, De Struise Ypres, Cuvee de Jacobins, Cuvee Freddy, t'Verzet, Liefmans Goudenband (slightly different but not miles away)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on October 15, 2020, 12:27:17 AM
Grand Cru is fucking mega. Terrific beer, a real eye-opener on how good a style you aren’t familiar with (Flemish red for me) can be.

Can’t get it here though can I? Have to import the cunt. Ridiculous.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on October 15, 2020, 01:34:10 PM
Just took delivery of some Rodenbach Classic (and some Palm!) as it happens:

https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/belgian-mixed-case

(https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/e929677f5657086b99ca00f6ab1bdef2/b/e/belgian-mixed-case-comp.png)

The Wipers Times 14 by Kazematter sounds a bit mindbending, anyone familiar with that one? Going to sample these over the weekend, got some posh cheese and posh crackers in for the occasion.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 15, 2020, 06:32:10 PM
If you ever get any more Belgian stuff in I recommend bookmarking Speciaalbierpakket.nl (https://www.speciaalbierpakket.nl/?Lng=en). A much more interesting range and cheaper than Beer Hawk even with shipping. 8 of those bottles are generally available in the big supermarkets these days too. I noticed their pre-selected packs tend to throw in a few bottles that come way, way under the overall price per bottle cost in order to cleave a nice profit.

Didn't Heineken or some similar operation take over Beer Hawk not long back? Certainly explains the selection there. Nearly all those are macro-produced now. Hopefully some of those (looking at St Feuillien, Tripel Karmeliet, Pater 6 in particular) will go down well.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 15, 2020, 06:49:03 PM
(https://www.achat-bieres.com/2192-thickbox_default/zeezuiper-33-cl-biere-belge-de-la-brasserie-schelde.jpg)

Zeezuiper (8% Belgian Tripel) ****
Scheldebrouwerij (https://www.scheldebrouwerij.com/schelde-bieren/zeezuiper), Meer, Belgium

The bottle doesn't advertise it's a Tripel in the enormous way most brands do, in fact that element seems low key. A lot of the branding talks about it being a golden blonde, which of course it is. The label is definitely tilting towards the craft market, perhaps trying to face both ways. There's a 25th anniversary badge on it as well.

The first thing to note on pouring is that the beer is unfiltered and natural sediment is floating everywhere in the glass.

At first, in the mouth there is a rush of bitter yet dramatic effervescence reacting on your tongue and filling the mouth. This is rounded off with yeastiness and spice which come to the fore more after the first mouthful. On swallowing the initial chemistry-lab-in-your-gob sensation morphs to smooth and creamier. The tiny fine bubbles in this beer make a lovely head and it affects the texture pleasantly. The foam lacings swirling the glass are a good tell of a quality beer, or at least a beer in the condition it was intended to be in.

The flavour overall is well balanced. Citrus fruit, spice and that typical unfiltered tang marry together really well to produce a lingering, pretty satisfying aftertaste. Although I love the texture as it slips down, perhaps the interaction on the back of the tongue could be better, it may be slightly meek considering its an 8% beer. Nonetheless, very impressive to produce a strong ale that is so drinkable.

One really noticeable difference between this one and normal Tripels is the bitterness. It really is distinctly more bitter than some of the candy-cane sweetness in other Belgian beer, while still staying true to the style.

A distinctive effort, and largely successful. Enjoyed it and I'd have it again.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on October 16, 2020, 07:22:18 PM
If you ever get any more Belgian stuff in I recommend bookmarking Speciaalbierpakket.nl (https://www.speciaalbierpakket.nl/?Lng=en). A much more interesting range and cheaper than Beer Hawk even with shipping. 8 of those bottles are generally available in the big supermarkets these days too. I noticed their pre-selected packs tend to throw in a few bottles that come way, way under the overall price per bottle cost in order to cleave a nice profit.

£30 for 15 beers seemed alright, plus I had some loyalty points to spend, but yes, chucking two bottles of Leffe in there is a bit cheeky. There are plenty I haven't tried but next time I'll be out for some more obscure beers, so thanks for the link.

So far:

PALM- nice enough but a bit meh really.

Grisette Blanche Witbier- very subtle orange and coriander flavours, as they should be, mostly on the nose more than the palate. Very refreshing and very pleasant indeed.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on October 16, 2020, 07:28:36 PM
Palm always makes me incredibly ill for some reason. Only had it twice, both times I was laid up for two days. Watch that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 16, 2020, 07:29:28 PM
Palm always makes me incredibly ill for some reason. Only had it twice, both times I was laid up for two days. Watch that.

Yeah...should be a safe one. I guess it's real dogshite, which won't help.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on October 16, 2020, 07:33:26 PM
Finished the bottle. Will report back. Think it'll be fine, it was inoffensive enough.

Shoulders, where could I get some more Fort Lapin please?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 16, 2020, 07:42:55 PM
Fort Lapin Tripel is for sale on Speciaalbierpakket.nl
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on October 16, 2020, 07:46:48 PM
Excellent, cheers. This week I just wanted to get some beers with next day delivery but I shall plan ahead next time.

On The Wipers Times now. Not mind-bending, not your typical sour beer (in that it's not very sour at all), just very richly-flavoured and very nice indeed.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 16, 2020, 08:20:53 PM
Which Wipers is that one?

I thought they only did a blonde, tripel and fruit?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on October 16, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
14:

https://www.kazematten.be/en/beers/wipers-times-14

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 16, 2020, 11:46:31 PM
You say that tasted sour? It's a multigrain belgian blonde so may have tasted weirdly herbaly/floral but sour would be a duff note.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on October 17, 2020, 12:14:21 AM
You say that tasted sour? It's a multigrain belgian blonde so may have tasted weirdly herbaly/floral but sour would be a duff note.

Perhaps our old friend brett(anomyces) has struck again!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on October 18, 2020, 06:46:04 PM
You say that tasted sour? It's a multigrain belgian blonde so may have tasted weirdly herbaly/floral but sour would be a duff note.

Nah, I made a mistake there, think I saw it described as a sour beer but it's not. Was very nice though!

Just had the Rodenbach Classic. Was like drinking red wine vinegar. Not for me, sorry.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on October 28, 2020, 06:32:03 PM
Probably best you steer clear of Rodenbach Grand Cru & Duchess de Bourgogne then! Both are oaky vinegary majesty.

Anyway, returning to the point of my post, another paroxysm of praise for Pilsner Urquell.

It's kind of an odd beer, particularly for lager, in that consecutive mouthfuls can feel so different, the flavour and texture are so much bolder. It throws itself at you, yet in its haste and comparative punchyness lies a realm of delight. It can feel gassy, that is a key weakness, but perhaps that is part of why. From one gulp to the next the sensation changes. As soon as you reach a stage where you're thinking 'might start getting bored of this', another sip will remind you all over again why it's so great. Yep, just there again (I am drinking this during posting). High bitterness combined with pleasant malt and almost buttery roundedness, but none of these elements strike you the same way in the same mouthful.

How can someone really rate this beer without having a full pint of it? In fact, how can someone accurately rate the beer without having drunk it for years? It's one of those break the mould creations.

If you don't believe me it's being sold at major supermarkets. Grab a bottle and compare to some other lagers, Budvar, Krombacher etc. We're still drinking what is basically a freakish Victorian creation, one that was so distinctly different with so few things to compare it to. It exploded in popularity and over the years the refinement of "pilsner" to mean something else (usually lighter and lighter and lighter beer, crisp, sharper immediately with nothing much backing it up) has gradually taken over this concept.

Pilsner Urqell isn't the only good Pilsner left of course, there are a shit tonne in Czechia of course, and some fine ones in Germany. Craft breweries have done one or two but there's the nagging sense (eg. Lost and Grounded Keller Pils) that they are only part way there to really understanding.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on October 28, 2020, 07:58:29 PM
Knocked a load of those back at the weekend and then my friend got a bottle of absinthe out and we had some of that. Woke up with NO HANGOVER so I hereby declare Pilsner Urquell the world's best beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Angrew Lloyg Wegger on October 29, 2020, 08:48:37 PM
Seconding all Pilsner Urquell praise. Went to Prague in January last year where they served it basically everywhere and since then it's been my go to always got some In the cupboard beer. Especially since Tesco are now doing it 12 for a tenner.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on October 29, 2020, 08:54:51 PM
Fair play 12 cans for a tenner is amazing.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: sardines on October 30, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Not got the new Rochefort Triple extra Blond? Come on sort it out Shoulders!

I was less than 30k from Rochefort s couple of weeks ago and couldn't find this anywhere. Starting to think those monks are fucking with us.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Angrew Lloyg Wegger on October 30, 2020, 08:17:47 AM
Fair play 12 cans for a tenner is amazing.

They are 330ml ones just to be ckear
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on October 31, 2020, 09:07:08 PM
Bamberger Spezial Rauch

Schlenkerla Marzen Rauch

Puttner Zoigl

Ayinger Urweisse

Spaten Oktoberfest
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on October 31, 2020, 10:51:28 PM
Bamberger Spezial Rauch

Schlenkerla Marzen Rauch

Puttner Zoigl

Ayinger Urweisse

Spaten Oktoberfest

HS Art has let itself go.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 01, 2020, 11:47:58 AM
I laughed, and not because I was pissed.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on November 01, 2020, 12:23:22 PM
Lockdown = more online beer orders

This thread will come in handy - again.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 03, 2020, 05:48:36 PM
I drink so much Zoigl now my wife calls it Zoidberg. She's never even watched Futurama because she doesn't like any nerd stuff. Don't know where she even heard it!

🤓🤓🤓
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on November 03, 2020, 06:08:22 PM
This link (https://www.beer52.com/join/V2ECNS) will get you 50% off your first case of beers from Beer 52. I think it's 8 beers for £12.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 03, 2020, 08:00:40 PM
I drink so much Zoigl now my wife calls it Zoidberg. She's never even watched Futurama because she doesn't like any nerd stuff. Don't know where she even heard it!

🤓🤓🤓

Lockdown#2 so first knock knock was Hier-Gibts-Bier.de

Their Zoigl stock seems to be diminished or they just didn't have as much as I remember.

Looking forward to the classics though. Paul Puttner, Wurth, Belsen
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 03, 2020, 09:28:17 PM
Last weekend I had so many Puttner I barely made it out the wreckage. Wonderful stuff and many thanks for getting me onto this brown gold. I got a handful of Rotbier I've also been really enjoying once in a while. Keller, Rot, Zoigl, Jarhundert, Marzen. Encore, Alain!

My life is basically on hold til Jan so I decided to learn how to code, watch movie and drink bier.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 03, 2020, 10:04:16 PM
Here’s one for you both: I took a look at the “import” section of the liquor store here in Halifax and it was fucking desolate. 3 tins of Heineken and a couple of aldi-tier weissbeers I’d never heard of. Will take a sneaky photo next time I’m in there.

The local craft stuff (particularly darker beers which I guess is a regional thing) are all decent to good so I’m doing alright but you pair would be besides yourselves.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 03, 2020, 11:21:16 PM
What's the beer shipping situation like? I hears it's pretty desolate in North America so guess Halifax may be a particularly bad example.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 04, 2020, 12:37:31 AM
What's the beer shipping situation like? I hears it's pretty desolate in North America so guess Halifax may be a particularly bad example.

Beer shipping? By a private citizen?! Oh ho ho somebody has never had to tangle with Canadian customs.

You cannot import beer privately*. Everything must be done through the provincial government, you can put in a request with them to import stuff for you but there are minimums (think it was 48 cans in Ontario, Christ knows what it is here) and you pay through the nose for it.

The system inadvertently supports a lot of smaller local breweries because it is so easy for them to compete (the going rate for beer is ~3 quid a can so not hard to turn a profit) and a similarly healthy homebrewing scene, but it is absolute shit if you want a half decent range of imports. Never massively bothered me, but I think you’d go bananas in a week or two.

*I think you can technically ship it and declare it but I suspect the customs people would smash it to bits, charge you 10 quid a can to be on the safe side, then ship the remnants to you at great expense. My parents sent me a bottle of port about 10 years ago (despite me begging them not to). After a 2hr drive, it cost me $42 to get it from the clutches of local customs office.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on November 04, 2020, 12:59:58 AM
This link (https://www.beer52.com/join/V2ECNS) will get you 50% off your first case of beers from Beer 52. I think it's 8 beers for £12.

I would warn that cancelling after you get your cheap box is a pain in the arse. You have to phone up and wait in a queue.. Took me 15 minutes to get through
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 04, 2020, 05:59:08 AM
And the beer is unexciting (no surprise given it's cheap).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: The Culture Bunker on November 04, 2020, 09:40:39 AM
Seconding all Pilsner Urquell praise. Went to Prague in January last year where they served it basically everywhere and since then it's been my go to always got some In the cupboard beer. Especially since Tesco are now doing it 12 for a tenner.
I'm assuming this is online, as they've not sold it in the shops near me for a couple of years now - have to tram up to Morrison's to buy the 500ml bottles for £1.50 a pop, which is reasonable value.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: ASFTSN on November 05, 2020, 11:23:09 AM
Never posted in this thread. If I say I drank two bottles of Timothy Taylor's Landlord yesterday and had forgotten how much I enjoy that beer, am I going to get laughed out of it? The thread not the beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on November 05, 2020, 11:30:14 AM
A decent pint, though I preferred the old style bottle.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: ASFTSN on November 05, 2020, 11:35:23 AM
The landlord on the label looks like he's about 4ft tall.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on November 05, 2020, 11:51:21 AM
Ordered this (https://www.belgianhappiness.com/en/mixed-boxes/trappist-beer-box-27/xdhhn) at the weekend and got a shipping email this morning.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 05, 2020, 12:00:45 PM
I don't really drink Landlord in bottles, or other normally cask beers not on cask if I can help it.

Quality varies widely (as does price around here) but at its best, a superb pint.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on November 05, 2020, 12:03:05 PM
I quite like my Beer 52 delivery. I look forward to it the moment I get the dispatch email and then drink em all in a couple of days. They always send some interesting and weird beers, and it's nice for someone else to choose my beers for me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on November 05, 2020, 12:35:21 PM
It's not a bad box from what I've seen. Part uninspired stuff that you could get in a supermarket thesedays, but usually has a few more interesting beers in there too.

Tales of getting stung for a pricey craft beer then. Can anyone beat this? I stopped in Friends of Ham in Leeds a couple of days back for some food and drink before getting the train. Know it well, it's never been cheap but it has great food and lots of beers. Table service, no menu in sight, ask if they've got a west coast beer and he brings me a half of Brick's West Coast DIPA. Delicious, excellent dipa, fresh, busting with flavor, satisfying bitterness, just a touch chewy bodied. Very good beer. I eat and have two more of the same beer as it's excellent. Three halves of beer, in Leeds: £21. Almost choked. Rarely quibble about the cost of beer when it's good. I like small brewers (and bars that stock their wares). Despite a lot of samey stuff out there, it's still where the most unusual, innovative and often - but not always - best stuff is found. And I don't hold against them the cost of what they produce and desire to be able to make/pay an acceptable wage. But... but... £7, for a half, for 284ml? I've seen those kind of prices for 10-14% Imperial stout before but never for a DIPA

man it was good though. I'd have been bleeding from the ears if it had been average
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on November 05, 2020, 01:08:40 PM
Ha, not been there for a while but you've always needed deep pockets.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 05, 2020, 01:15:36 PM
That really is up there for 'let's just see if anyone will pay it' gouging. Not overly surprised from that place. Not sure I have been since a guy working there told me 'I don't really get cask'. He was a really smug little shit.

This DIPA is brewed in the UK using a typical grain bill (for craft beer anyway), it's 8% so at most in a big city centre bar that should be £5 to 5.50 a half.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2020, 01:35:11 PM
Yeah that’s egregious. The difference in ingredient costs between an IPA and a DIPA to brew ~40 pints would be about 8 quid?

I’d fucking love a chance to sell my hooch for $22 a pint, don’t blame them for trying but you really shouldn’t pay that much for it. Agree with Shoulders price assessment there, though even that seems a bit much for a half.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on November 05, 2020, 01:39:39 PM
Friends of Ham gets something of a pass from me as one of life's pleasures is running up an extravagant tab eating and drinking in there and missing your train.

Back in 2013/14 when they opened a typical dipa would have set you back about £3.50 for a half. I didn't check the menu but I expect £7 is the absolute top end of a dipa. It's a London brewery, so perhaps the beer is more expensive? Though I noted in a bottle shop in Sheffield's moor market that a typical Kernal IPA/dipa 330ml is £3.60 and a pale 500ml of about 5.5% is £4.20. They're still cheaper by a good £1, and better, than many other UK craft IPA/pale/neipa brewers

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
I remember kernel were a very good for IPAs last time I was in London. That is all I have to contribute to commentary on contemporary UK craft breweries. Oh and pressure drop brewery were similarly excellent. Ok that’s everything.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on November 05, 2020, 01:49:46 PM
Pressure Drop still make excellent beer.

Anyone had problems with cask beer during the pandemic? Think I gave up after about the 4th or 5th beer in a row that was borderline or completely gone. Even my local where I'd been previously living in Worcester that had kept beers well before the pandemic was putting on beers that were gone 24-48 hours after opening.

I realise this may sound like I've been having a massive covidy piss up at granddad's expense, but in most cases I'll only go to the pub when it's quiet and I can sit outside.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 05, 2020, 01:55:40 PM
After pubs reopened in July cask was great pretty much everywhere, I found. In some cases mindblowing how much better it was than normal. More recently it has been a little more variable and fair to state the average has dropped a touch. Haven't had a single pint worth taking back though.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on November 05, 2020, 04:14:07 PM
Friends of Ham gets something of a pass from me as one of life's pleasures is running up an extravagant tab eating and drinking in there and missing your train.

Them going in to administration, stiffing a load of small suppliers then re-opening immediately kind of took the gloss off for me. But I have had some decent afternoons shovelling pig in to my face in there. The cut that was just fat with herbs. Delicious. Went to the Ham and Friends spin off and wasn't impressed, not surprised it closed.

I remember kernel were a very good for IPAs last time I was in London. That is all I have to contribute to commentary on contemporary UK craft breweries. Oh and pressure drop brewery were similarly excellent. Ok that’s everything.

Kernel still make very good IPAs.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2020, 04:30:46 PM
There we go I’m 2 for 2 on my hot UK brewery tips. I still got it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Emotional Support Peacock on November 05, 2020, 05:09:21 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/0tRfTXF/9105197-C-BA9-A-460-B-A068-1525000203-EE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m8VHkBX)

Had a gift voucher to spend at the shop down the road and just picked up this lot. Some slightly random choices maybe but the selection was so vast it was difficult to decide what to get without doing days of research.

Rather ashamed to have given in to the relentless Zoigl propaganda but at least I only bought 2.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2020, 05:15:17 PM
^fuckin hell that’s a good selection
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on November 05, 2020, 05:31:36 PM
Abbeydale are variable with craft beer, and that's putting it kindly. Heathen is a good'un though and that's a very tasty selection
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Emotional Support Peacock on November 05, 2020, 05:45:07 PM
Abbeydale are variable with craft beer, and that's putting it kindly. Heathen is a good'un though and that's a very tasty selection

That was one of the more random selections along with the one on the far left from a brewery in Hackney. Glad to know it probably not a dud!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thelittlemango on November 05, 2020, 05:48:04 PM
That was one of the more random selections along with the one on the far left from a brewery in Hackney. Glad to know it probably not a dud!

One on the far left is pretty good (as with most Howling Hops beers), may be too hoppy for some though.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 05, 2020, 05:57:54 PM
Can't believe Zoigl is now present in the UK. purlieu recently found some in his off license. While Paul Puttner Zoigl isn't my absolute fave, it's a very good example of a trad Franconian beer and it will really stand out in style and flavour.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 05, 2020, 06:46:57 PM
Feel like pure shit Zoigl Zoigl Zoigl Zoigl Zoigl

I got a load of Verdant IPAs recently. Track and Field, Headband, some other stuff. It was actually fucking nice for an IPA, especially the T'n'F. Really quite complex, juicehhhhhh and an actual start, middle and end. I would fuck another can of that.

Currently on the Weihenstephaner. Cunt does not give a fuck about any other beer. There's a lot of amazing wheat beers out there buy this guy fucks with the best on a Thursday.

(And yep, nuff Zoigl and Keller in my local these days, I think he got em in after I dropped a few healthy notes on Krautbier. Every couple of weeks there's a a new surprise).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 05, 2020, 06:57:19 PM
Some recent highlights:

(https://i.ibb.co/S7503vZ/20201030-191152.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/WB5MZFs/20201024-183438.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/3Fgbjhw/IMG-20201022-200107-440.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/Sd6Td3S/20201003-180834.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 05, 2020, 07:00:28 PM
Yesssss. The Weissenohe Altfrankisch Kloster Sud is a magnificent beer. They are all high quality.

Tell them to get Hopf Muospacher Bockfotzen in, if possible. Top 15 beer ever.

And Mahrs aU, the beer pretty much everyone alive who has had it likes.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 05, 2020, 07:13:45 PM
Come on, mate. You must have made them up.

(I will put the requests in, the dude will be delighted I'm sure with the suggestions, cheers! Honestly, I will always be able to offset the Covid horror with an appreciation of German beer. Thanks for the eye openers.)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on November 05, 2020, 09:23:49 PM
Here's my birthday selection:
(https://i.ibb.co/6XZ76LP/IMG-20201030-092143.jpg)

The German ones were a present, just a nice basic slab of hells. The Loch Lomond one I got from Lidl, it's a Black IPA and very nice. I like that style.

On Sunday I went to the local micropub that's opened up fairly recently to show a bit of support before they get fucked dead by lockdown. Had a Verdant Alternative Currency porter which I thought was absolutely delicious at first but I was ready for it to end after a bit. Also had a Firebrand West Coast Session IPA which was nice if you like that sort of thing. You know what you're getting at this point. My favourite was Atlantic Honey Ale, just a nice amber ale with a bit of sweetness from somewhere, I dunno, I guess the honey?? Fuck knows, what am I, a scientist? Nice to support some Cornish breweries anyway. Cheers
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 05, 2020, 09:37:32 PM
I know some Atlantic stuff is brewed in Cornwall still but I thought a lot was brewed in Burton or something now.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on November 05, 2020, 10:30:49 PM
Atlantic is a pretty small farm brewery. Sharps do a beer called Atlantic IPA though - I know bottled Doom Bar is made in Burton, maybe Atlantic IPA is the same. Sharps is owned by Molson Coors and does not need my support. Since they got bought I have to pretend I always preferred Tribute but that’s not true.

Actually while I’m talking about the big two Cornish breweries, something about St Austell Proper Job gives me the shits. I like it but it fucks my guts.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 05, 2020, 10:33:24 PM
Sorry, got confused
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on November 06, 2020, 12:08:11 PM
Apology accepted.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 06, 2020, 07:20:59 PM
A new batch just arrived from Hier-gibts-bier.de (http://hier-gibts-bier.de). Part of Lockdown #2 emergency planning:

1 x Leikem Wintertraum
1 x Weiherer Weizenbock
1 x Ott bockbier
1 x Nankendorfer Bockbier
1 x Schubel Kellerbock
1 x Mainseidla Bock
1 x Langbrau Festbier
1 x Hutten Zoigl
1 x Staffelberg Querkerla
1 x Meinel Mephisto (smoke beer)
1 x Adler Stopfelder Zwickel
1 x Huppendorfer Zwickel
1 x Mahrs Brau aU
1 x Schubel - a frankisch
1 x Leikem Steinbier
1 x Frauendorfer Naturtrub
1 x Sonne Zunft Trunk
1 x Adler Alt Frankisches Lagerbier
1 x Hutten Fichtelgold
1 x Meinel Kellermarzen
1 x Staffelberg Wienerla
1 x Aufsesser Bock Dunkel
1 x Meinel Dunkel
1 x Mahrs Pils
1 x Wagner Dunkel
1 x Puttner Basalt Dunkel
1 x Nikl Dunkel
1 x Kuchlbauer Turmweisse
4 x Gamperlbrau Forster-Pils
1 x Wagner ungespundet Lager
1 x Wurth Zoigl Dunkel
1 x Klosterbrau Kemnath Marzen
1 x Weiherer Keller Marzen



I'm like a fucking pig in shit
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 06, 2020, 09:07:40 PM
Would you like to move in with me and my family?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 06, 2020, 09:12:06 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2019_08_07/eb490bd75d84fb0453b60ae9855eb1c3_640x640.jpeg)

Klosterbrauerei Kemnath Märzen (5.6%) Marzen
Klosterbrauerei Kemnath (https://www.klosterbrauerei-kemnath.de/)

Firstly, Märzen:

Quote
In the past, the last beer before summer was brewed in March because there was an increased risk of fire during beer boiling in the summer months and the beer had to be stored at temperatures below 10°C. The beer was then brewed in the summer months. In order to be able to enjoy beer in the summer, the Märzen was brewed with increased original wort and thereby increased alcohol content and with stronger hopping. The speciality is brewed all year round with a strong original gravity.

This beer from a 'monastic' type brewery (Germany's equivalent to Belgian Abbey breweries I suppose) is a little more amber coloured than the picture above suggests. This one slightly surprised me as it is pretty well-hopped. You may taste toffee and really delicate floral notes, light malt too, but the strength and sweetness is supported with a stiff persistent bitterness on the tongue. The hops are...bright, I suppose, and the whole beer is pitched on a tightrope between the classic strong malt and an adventurously (genuinely, for such a trad brewery) bitter edge. The combination gives a fairly full mouthfeel and texture while also being refreshing.

This is not far away from a Vienna Lager or Jantar style amber lager but arguably just yet another trad old recipe that's difficult to entirely define.

It takes a little bit of working out at first but I reckon this one is a pretty interesting beer, definitely more to it than I remember from other Marzens. Being so close to Zoigl country to the near south east of Framconio might explain the unconventionality.

Rating: ****
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Dex Sawash on November 06, 2020, 10:29:50 PM
A new batch just arrived from Hier-gibts-bier.de (http://hier-gibts-bier.de). Part of Lockdown #2 emergency planning:

1 x Leikem Wintertraum
1 x Weiherer Weizenbock
1 x Ott bockbier
1 x Nankendorfer Bockbier
1 x Schubel Kellerbock
1 x Mainseidla Bock
1 x Langbrau Festbier
1 x Hutten Zoigl
1 x Staffelberg Querkerla
1 x Meinel Mephisto (smoke beer)
1 x Adler Stopfelder Zwickel
1 x Huppendorfer Zwickel
1 x Mahrs Brau aU
1 x Schubel - a frankisch
1 x Leikem Steinbier
1 x Frauendorfer Naturtrub
1 x Sonne Zunft Trunk
1 x Adler Alt Frankisches Lagerbier
1 x Hutten Fichtelgold
1 x Meinel Kellermarzen
1 x Staffelberg Wienerla
1 x Aufsesser Bock Dunkel
1 x Meinel Dunkel
1 x Mahrs Pils
1 x Wagner Dunkel
1 x Puttner Basalt Dunkel
1 x Nikl Dunkel
1 x Kuchlbauer Turmweisse
4 x Gamperlbrau Forster-Pils
1 x Wagner ungespundet Lager
1 x Wurth Zoigl Dunkel
1 x Klosterbrau Kemnath Marzen
1 x Weiherer Keller Marzen



I'm like a fucking pig in shit


Fraudulent votes
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 06, 2020, 10:32:54 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_08_09/4d5e2a886264abbb87af3dffb0fd34d1_640x640.jpg)

Stöpflder Zwickel (5.0%) Zwickl/Kellerbier
Adler-Brau (https://www.adlerbraeu-stettfeld.de/), Stettfeld

A short way North-West of Bamberg is where this little brewery is located, not far from the river Main. They run a (very well reviewed) Gasthaus/restaurant as is common; this is my first beer of theirs.

Zwickl is usually intended as a brighter, sometimes sharper thirst-quencher, on the 'session drinking' side of the Kellerbier spectrum. The colour is straw-like, perhaps not as lemony yellow as the picture. It is fairly aromatic with lime/melon which feeds into the flavour sensation if you really huff on it. There's also an underlying agricultural/harvest fields note which often feeds into these unfiltered kellerbiers. Not big time like an English Golden Ale, just a delicate hint here and there of meadow, hedgerow, honeysuckle, light floral elements.

As for my impressions, it's direct satisfaction from the off. A tang of spice, surprisingly strident hops which you can almost feel bubbling up, rising in your mouth before swallowing disperses everything pleasantly like a wave lapping on a beach. A bit like the frothing sea, it is a little gassy too. A bit like Nikl-Brau and Schubel Kellerbier there is a fairly distinctive citric element but one that's been carefully layered in.

I champion good lager because 1) it's dying in most places 2) it's unexplored, underrated or in the case of this stuff just plain forgotten about 3) it's very tasty but 4) because it goes beyond the call of duty. Most people's expectations of a lager are low, even in Germany. They don't have to do this. They could have contracted a house pils that was totally perfunctory. But this is a personal labour of love.

This is designed to be refreshing, absolutely. Any cyclist or hiker could pop into their Gasthaus for a pint of this and it would sort them out immediately. But it also rewards lingering with it, taking each facet of each mouthful in. You can sense the additional effort put in; the understanding of the art by the brewer.

Obviously I would say this is preferable to a 'Session IPA' on account of personal taste, but I am interested in what people who like that style would think of this. Because I think this beer satisfies all the reasons people like Session IPA but adds so much more too. An underlying texture, malt character that is present but wouldn't put any hophead off. In the case of this beer anyway, a balance, a harmony that is vital whatever style you decide to brew, which is as big a commendation for a brewer as anything.

Rating: ****
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 07, 2020, 12:15:31 AM
Here’s one for you both: I took a look at the “import” section of the liquor store here in Halifax and it was fucking desolate. 3 tins of Heineken and a couple of aldi-tier weissbeers I’d never heard of. Will take a sneaky photo next time I’m in there.

The local craft stuff (particularly darker beers which I guess is a regional thing) are all decent to good so I’m doing alright but you pair would be besides yourselves.

There we go, stock is particularly poor today. Some of that “import” is “imported” from Québec for fucks sake. And it’s not even good! Some QC beer is amazing (especially their abbé style stuff) but mcauslan is shite. Anyway.

(https://i.ibb.co/HPRs9DJ/85-AC9-FA6-A0-EF-423-E-A687-9-B7-E30-F9-CC05.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: robhug on November 07, 2020, 12:21:02 AM
There we go, stock is particularly poor today. Some of that “import” is “imported” from Québec for fucks sake. And it’s not even good! Some QC beer is amazing (especially their abbé style stuff) but mcauslan is shite. Anyway.

(https://i.ibb.co/HPRs9DJ/85-AC9-FA6-A0-EF-423-E-A687-9-B7-E30-F9-CC05.jpg)

how much would it cost to pick up 4 cans of Old Specklend Hen?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 07, 2020, 12:22:34 AM
how much would it cost to pick up 4 cans of Old Specklend Hen?

$16.50 = ~10 quid or so?

Load of shit.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: robhug on November 07, 2020, 12:24:28 AM
Grim.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 07, 2020, 12:27:02 AM
Grim.

You’re telling me.

Local hooch is cheaper and much nicer but still in the same ballpark.

Will have my brewing gear out of storage at the first opportunity so I can return to being an utter wasteman on the cheap.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Dex Sawash on November 07, 2020, 12:40:34 AM
Didn’t know Tuborg still existed
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: robhug on November 07, 2020, 12:42:54 AM
Didn’t know Tuborg still existed

Its one of the better draught lagers available in Wetherspoons, or it was pre-brexit which was the last time I went in one.

Id say Harp was the one that didn't exist from that picture.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Dex Sawash on November 07, 2020, 12:46:49 AM
Its one of the better draught lagers available in Wetherspoons, or it was pre-brexit which was the last time I went in one.

Id say Harp was the one that didn't exist from that picture.

I've only ever had one in 1987 that had probably spent 2 years getting to america
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on November 07, 2020, 01:08:04 AM
Can anyone recommend decent gluten free beer? (Wife is coeliac.) Apparently, some type of Corona is GF and the man at Vocation told us that all Heart and Soul is GF now. All First Chop is gluten free too although it's too much of a ballache to actually pour that stuff without getting a 5" head of froth. I know you can get stuff branded as GF in the 'Free From' section but are there any beers that are GF without having a specific spin-off?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 07, 2020, 01:23:27 AM
I think GF beer is a bit of a swizz isn’t it? All beer is largely GF as far as I’m aware, though maybe I have that wrong.

Worthless post sorry. Posted it now though haven’t I
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: robhug on November 07, 2020, 01:27:26 AM
GF is a bit of a swizz, lifestyle choice

IE your paying £3 for a fucking load for your missus in Tesco
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on November 07, 2020, 09:15:51 AM
It's not a lifestyle choice if you have coeliac disease, you stupid cunt.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on November 07, 2020, 09:20:31 AM
I think GF beer is a bit of a swizz isn’t it? All beer is largely GF as far as I’m aware, though maybe I have that wrong.

Worthless post sorry. Posted it now though haven’t I

It's the "largely" bit that's the issue. It's either safe to drink or it makes her really ill.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 07, 2020, 09:23:24 AM
According to untappd here are some top rated GF beers and gettable in the UK

Loads of beers from Wander Beyond Brewing based in Manchester
Hygge Figgy - Brass Castle
It's not me, it's you - Lervig
Ventura Highway - Kirkstall
GreenFlute - Wishbone
Fantasma - Magic Rock
Voyager IPA - Abbeydale
Cereal Killer - BrewYork
Ekuanot - Arbor*

*actually they seem to do gf versions of all their single hop pales

When I scrolled down it was strange how many of these were northern breweries. I didn't have it set to Local.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 07, 2020, 11:07:31 AM
It's the "largely" bit that's the issue. It's either safe to drink or it makes her really ill.

Ah right, I didn’t know that. Will defer to other CaBbers but that sounds shite for her (and you). There’s no way of saying that doesn’t sound sarcastic, sorry.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: holyzombiejesus on November 07, 2020, 12:32:03 PM
Ah right, I didn’t know that. Will defer to other CaBbers but that sounds shite for her (and you). There’s no way of saying that doesn’t sound sarcastic, sorry.

Ah, it's ok. She generally drinks cider anyway. Just nice for her to have the odd ale when it's available. Quite a few pubs are doing GF beers on draft now but I'm generally a bit sceptical as unless it's kept meticulously clean and they ensure there's no cross-pollination , its a bit pointless. She's been ill due to pubs being lax far more times than food has made her ill. Not really the pubs' fault as it's still a pretty niche dietary requirement.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on November 07, 2020, 01:54:22 PM
Ordered this (https://www.belgianhappiness.com/en/mixed-boxes/trappist-beer-box-27/xdhhn) at the weekend and got a shipping email this morning.

Just arrived!

Hungover though, so probably not the best day to start sampling.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 08, 2020, 04:05:14 PM
Wold Top Scarborough Fair IPA is another GF one.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pink Gregory on November 08, 2020, 05:32:38 PM
Don't know if you can get them much outside of Bristol but I can recommend Arbor Mosaic, which is a single hop IPA that's GF.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on November 08, 2020, 05:35:31 PM
A bit less crafty but my mate who tries to avoid gluten enjoys the GF Estrella, and it's widely available in supermarkets and that.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 08, 2020, 07:25:13 PM
Ayinger Urweisse
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 08, 2020, 09:34:00 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_04_08/a176ceb973508bae3ab593530c1937ff_640x640.jpg)

Nankendorfer Bockbier (7.0%) Bock
Brauerei Schroll (https://www.brauerei-schroll.de/), Nankendorf

A cold foggy November night, and the remedy is this Bock beer. Bock is a strong ruby/dark lager, usually between 5.8-7% (although the stronger version Doppelbock can overlap). Yes, despite the strength this is still sold in 500ml bottles and the extra alcohol content doesn't generally cost you much more money in Germany, at least not as it would in the UK.

This brewery seems to be a decent sized operation in a tiny village, hamlet even, between Bamberg and Bayreuth, nestled in the countryside. Most of the towns in between feature a brewery of some sort with a pub attached. This is among the remnants of a gloriously long-running culture and tradition.

Anyway, the beer. Bock has always been a sweeter beer and so to provide a balance and drinkability it tends to be pitched in one of two directions - smooth as all hell, or dry and well-hopped. This bock is from the latter category. Just as you are plunged into a world of raisins, figs, prunes, nuts and so forth this is immediately offset in the mouth with a drying roast malt (one of the key characteristics of most dark beers in Franconia) and a surprisingly tingly persistent hop that probably isn't as forceful on tap, but gives the beer a slightly prickly edge - not in a bad way either.

The very aftertaste is not that dissimilar to a bottled ESB I suppose. Lingering malt tang with a distinctive hoppy accompaniment.

As it goes along there's a residual flavour that builds in your mouth that is really pleasant. Chocolate, fruit n' nut, then treacley.

What more can I say? This bock doesn't reinvent the wheel but shows there is some variety within the style, it's rich, oddly quite refreshing for the strength at first, and just bob on in terms of its flavour balance. Enjoy in front of a log burner and a good horror film.

Your rating: ****

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 09, 2020, 12:59:47 PM
https://www.pivoonline.cz/p6gzw425

Just ordered some Czech pivo from Pivovar Cvikov.

Czech beer is so cheap that even with £40 shipping costs it weighs in well under £2 / 500ml.

Quote
Sváteční polotmavý ležák vaříme ze tří druhů sladů – plzeňského, bavorského a karamelového, klasickou dvourmutovou technologií. Každý ze sladů předává pivu něco jiného. Plzeňský slad tvoří základní chuťovou osnovu, bavorský zvyšuje vnímání plnosti piva a slad karamelový dokresluje příjemně hořkou chuť vícestupňového polotmavého piva. Jemná hořkost dává vyniknout sladovým tónům piva. Pivo kvasí spodním kvašením v otevřené spilce při teplotě 13,5 °C, následuje dlouhé zrání v ležáckém tanku při 2°C.

Při správném natočení je pivo pokryto vysokou pěnou se slabým karamelovým nádechem, zaujme i svojí jantarovou barvou.

Oohs and aahs
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 11, 2020, 07:46:41 PM
(https://ourtastytravels.com/wp-content/uploads/altfrankisches_lagerbier_p.png)

Adler Brau Alt Frankisches Lagerbier (5.2%) Kellerbier/Vollbier.
Adlerbrau (https://www.adlerbraeu-stettfeld.de/), Stettfeld

This is an amber, going on coppery chestnut lager with a nutty/roast malt aroma. Going from the website, this seems to be Adler Brau's flagship beer, and it's a lovely one.

Untappd describes it as a Vienna lager and I can see why. The key to its success is bright lingering hops (guessing Spalter from the flavour and sensation) which combine with the full texture to give a really, really satisfying mouthfeel. I wouldn't call it subtle, but it's punchy and that's certainly effective for a lager when done right. That said, there are some dusky floral notes buried somewhere in there, the sort that are unique for the style.

You could really imagine drinking this in a steinkrug (alas, I will have to imagine) where the best kellerbiers linger behind a frothy head and the stone mug, allowing only your nose and tastebuds to guide you.

Another beer I couldn't get sick of very quickly. Franconia dudes.

Rating: ****

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 11, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
(https://www.taste-beer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/DSC_0099-4_1-683x1024.jpg)

Huppendorfer Zwickel (4.9%) Zwickel
Privatbrauerei Grasser (https://huppendorfer-bier.de/), Konigsfeld

This beer is what I used to think kellerbier was, before discovering that it could pretty much run the whole gamut of lagers. This brewery who are based out in the sticks east of Bamberg seem pretty well rated across the board for their wares, and it's pretty easy to see why from this bottle.

This Zwickel is decidedly different from the last few I described which were hoppy, zingy and bitter. Sure, it's still golden, slightly hazy with a soft froth, but this time round it's all about yeast, spice and floral elements. This beer is really mildly hopped with only a faint fuzz at the end to signify its presence. Instead you're encouraged to focus on what's going on in the mouth. There's a lovely gentle harvest field/yeast/spice. Each mouthful adds layers on top of one another. What was not there at the start now is there. A similarly gentle honeysuckle build up. It would be pointless trying to rate this beer from a sample, only the full bottle gives you the true experience.

A bit like the last one, this sort of mild-flavoured but full bodied lager is the kind of thing you expect to be served via a stone mug in Franconia. To neck, or to savour.

Rating: ****



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on November 12, 2020, 01:43:37 PM
Anyone here drink 14 units a week or less? No? What do you tell your doctor when they ask how much you drink?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 12, 2020, 03:03:48 PM
LGC?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on November 12, 2020, 05:04:50 PM
Anyone here drink 14 units a week or less? No? What do you tell your doctor when they ask how much you drink?

What the fuck is a unit?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on November 12, 2020, 05:13:32 PM
What the fuck is a unit?

half a pint of 4% beer, or one 25ml measure of 40% liquor. You're meant to drink less than 14 a week according to the UK government health guidelines.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: bgmnts on November 12, 2020, 05:43:34 PM
What the fuck is a unit?

Your mum.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 12, 2020, 06:34:20 PM
half a pint of 4% beer, or one 25ml measure of 40% liquor. You're meant to drink less than 14 a week according to the UK government health guidelines.

Since lockdown I'm oscillating between 1 and 2 beers a day during the week and Sunday, then between 2 and 4 on Fri + Sat night.

I presume you'll be popping over to the food threads to remind them what the average recommended calorie intake of a human male is.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 12, 2020, 06:56:31 PM
LGC?

Bought some 12s and got a complimentary 8.

(https://i.ibb.co/S6dRr3L/20201112-181014.jpg)

Liquid fig roll.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 12, 2020, 07:20:26 PM
Ooh. I still haven't tried Westvleteren. I'm sure it's lovely.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on November 12, 2020, 07:43:48 PM
Since lockdown I'm oscillating between 1 and 2 beers a day during the week and Sunday, then between 2 and 4 on Fri + Sat night.

I presume you'll be popping over to the food threads to remind them what the average recommended calorie intake of a human male is.

I've got a checkup coming soon and they're gonna ask me. I don't think I've ever been honest. Actually I think I get threatened by the knowledge that they're gonna ask me so every year before the checkup I sort my alcohol intake out for a fortnight so I can be kinda honest
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 12, 2020, 09:13:13 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_01_31/b8284d09378b85d414239c7ee1c1b2c5_640x640.jpg)

Cvikov Hvozd (4.5%) 11° pale lager
Pivovar Cvikov (https://g.page/pivovarcvikov?share), Cvikov

The Czech beer arrived this morning a day early. I have this brewery's 11° & 12° pale lager (svetly lezak) and their 13° semi-dark (polotmavy) to try.

Cvikov is in northern Czechia near the German border. The Lusatian mountains nearby, just for trivia's sake, inspired the setting of The Grand Budapest Hotel (much of which is shot in Gorlitz).

The German connection seems a reasonable place to start, because this could easily pass for a Franconian beer. Only a certain hop tang and some diacetyl (butteryness) gives it away as most likely Czech.

Why the similarity? Well, alike the many vollbiers that have passed my lips since lockdown - remember all those Zoigls and kellerbiers? - this is chestnut brown (more brown than the above photo) and accentuates its malt character while still being moderately bitter. The balance constantly sought in this culture is between flavour, complexity and drinkability.

The Czechs aren't as obsessed with everything being near bob-on 5% and you will usually find a healthy range between 3.5-6% as you explore the style. Their demarcations (using the plato ° scale) are so distinct that in their pubs you can order a destika, jedenactka, dvanacta and they will normally know instantly what sort of beer you're after. There is no real stigma - it's 10, 11, 12, sometimes 13 and higher - off you go. After a while though, you really start noticing the difference in body and texture even half a % of alcohol produces in a lager and the tricks brewers use to mask lighter body (usually hops, a specific distracting flavour or both) or prop up bitterness in a stronger, sweeter beer.

This beer being 4.5% is definitely lighter than the Framconio set but the mild butteryness and fullness of texture easily makes it compare with the many stronger beers from Germany I've been drinking.

One other thing - this has been filled from the brewery tap into a 1.5l PET bottle and so while this has been shaken about en route to the UK, I am in effect drinking tapped beer, which can make a difference.

Untapped, ratebeer etc are almost always down on traditional German and Czech lagers unless they are from very particular breweries but to my experience this a decent effort that's clearly superior to most mainstream Czech lagers (discounting stuff like Budvar and PU - I'm thinking more like Branik, Staropramen, Gambrinus). In fact, this beer almost is like an improvement on Gambrinus, the every day beer of choice in Czechia.

Czech breweries are starting to cast their net wider due to coronavirus and a few are opening online stores. Czech Beer Fan Club on Facebook put me in touch with it. https://www.pivoonline.cz  I got a 30kg shipment for less than £2 a bottle which simply wouldn't be possible if Czechia wasn't as cheap as it is for beer.

Rating: *** and a half
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DrGreggles on November 12, 2020, 10:27:15 PM
half a pint of 4% beer, or one 25ml measure of 40% liquor. You're meant to drink less than 14 a week according to the UK government health guidelines.

You're not my real Dad!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 13, 2020, 06:29:39 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0ZRaEgZqPRY/XWzp9-X6rCI/AAAAAAAAsxo/TIt0CQ7kxSkxU6Ct4GTFp6jrYbS_TQ5WwCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_20190901_134705.jpg)

Cvikov Klic 12° (4.8%) Pale Lager
Pivovar Cvikov, Cvikov (see previous review for website link)

Usually much more bitter and fuller-flavoured, the 12° is the acid test of lager brewing. In short, to brew beer that is knock-back drinkable and refreshing, as well as feisty, as well as subtle and rewarding to linger on. The 12° Svetly Lezak is the benchmark for any Czech brewery. Even in the craftiest of craft bars you can expect a high quality fallback dvanactka, premium pale lager, as an option.

The first thing to state about Cvikov's attempt is it has a wonderful amber colour that is really inviting. One look at it and you want it.

There is a faint yeast and even more faint floral meadowy type aroma. At first I picked up a slightly medicinal element but it might have crossed with what I had just eaten. Whatever it was, it subsided. This offers lively, zingy, Pilsner Urquell-esque bitterness which dances with hallmark unfiltered, unpasteurised spice and tang  the beer tastes vibrant + alive, like cask ale does when it's at its best.

 It took a few gulps to get what this one was driving at, but once it settled in, you can't help avoid the conclusion that this beer is really fucking good. Mahr's aU sort of really fucking good. Desert Island Pints sort of really, fucking good.

Rating: *****
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 13, 2020, 07:22:47 PM
Loving the reviews and I'm making notes. Mahr's aU is right at the top of my list, in case it ever pops up.

I've just had my first Westvleteren 12.

(https://i.ibb.co/HFqsQ1Y/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg)

It is fucking beautiful, amazing quad, even more complex than the Rochefort 10 and Barnardo 12 but I do think that the 8 is probably a bit more to my taste! Definitely will look for more of them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 13, 2020, 08:21:34 PM
I've just had my first Westvleteren 12.

Welcome to Big School.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuntbeaks on November 13, 2020, 09:38:17 PM
Welcome to Big School.
I bought 3 a few years back but have only had 1 so far. It isn't a million miles away from a Rochefort 10. More complex as you say, deeper, smoother and more varied.

Lovely beer, but worth £10-£20, not sure about that.

Not tried the 8, how does differ?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 14, 2020, 08:28:53 AM
I have to say that I wouldn't recommend anyone getting the 12, as good as it is! I'd take three Barnardo 12 or Rochefort 10 for what I paid per bottle, every time. It wasn't like the first time I tried George T. Stagg, though, where I basically sat in silence and felt like my taste buds and brain struggling to process how fucking good it was. Not a fair comparison, perhaps.

The 8 is more like a dubbel in terms of the flavours, but richer, more intense without getting the darker, boozy, quaddy kind of notes. I think I said fig roll at the time and that's my main impression, really. Raisin and biscuit kind of thing. Sweet and rich but spicy, earthy and drying. I will try and get some more, and definitely would recommend the 8 over the 12 for the money.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 14, 2020, 04:44:06 PM
This is why I haven't tried it yet. I'm sure it's terrific but the markup just never seems worth it.

I'm just waiting for the point where I get pliant enough to lob 10 quid into the transaction goatse. Hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 14, 2020, 05:38:49 PM
I'd say it's worth trying a single bottle but I got half a dozen which would slightly sting if I didn't intend to gift a few. The 8 was actually a freebie because of my 12 order which was a lovely extra.

They chucked in one of these, as well, with my Gouden Carolus Tripels:

(https://i.ibb.co/9vNsDtm/20201114-164303.jpg)

I've sat with it for a good hour, not just because of the 11.7% ABV but because I want to see where it is goes. I didn't know that Gouden Carolus even produced a single malt, but sure enough. Overall, lovely stuff for a dark and grey early winter's evening, but a little bit too sweet for me, it's almost like an Irish whiskey infusion but definitely missing some of the floral citric notes of the Tripel. It's pretty rich and layered but all within fairly narrow parameters. Treacle, vanilla, chocolate, burnt toffee. There's not much fruit or bitterness or anything much to balance it. It's like the 'sherry bomb' you sometimes get with Scotch (though it doesn't taste like that), where you get one powerful and intense thump of a particular flavour profile. If you like these notes, it's definitely unique and it's pretty intense, but it's not one I'll be sampling very often. Should have saved it for Christmas Day. It's got that vibe.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 14, 2020, 05:58:43 PM
Wow yes, that's a keeper. Haven't seen that around anywhere (from memory).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 14, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
(https://bier-scout.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/P4010033-e1522580078225-450x600.jpg)

Staffelberg-Bräu Wienerla (5.4%) Vienna Lager
Staffelberg-Brau (https://www.staffelberg-braeu.de/cms2/index.php), Loffeld

Staffelberg Brau is a typical Franconian Gasthof/Brew House in a small village at the foot of Staffelberg mountain. Using spring water, local barley and powered by renewable energy, this brewery makes a play on its ethical credentials. One from a reasonably wide range they offer, Wienerla - as you may expect - is a Vienna style lager.

It pours with a creamy head, one that lasted fairly well over the course of the drink. A light amber colour that's a tad hazy through being unfiltered. I can't read German all that well but the label says it is subject to "Drei-Maisch-Verfahren", includes Hallertau Merkur hops and treated to 8 weeks lagering (more than double what something like Budweiser is treated to).

Given this lager is relatively strong, the attempt here appears to be at using the hops for brightness and bitterness to balance the inevitably sweeter flavour. In the mouth there's a satisfying harmony, each individual element is brought together nicely. This provides a consistency. Each mouthful has a reliable hoppy hit, combined with a fully body and unfiltered tang that is well up my street. There's a clean, slightly drying finish which helps make it even more drinkable.

The bitterness isn't harsh but it flourishes within the beer, making a potential gloop-monster taste quite vibrant. No doubt whoever brewed this knows their onions. Beer onions. Beer.

Rating: ****

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 19, 2020, 08:37:24 PM
(https://www.hier-gibts-bier.de/media/image/18/ae/a5/schuebel_kellerbock_B0321_600x600.png)

Schubel Kellerbock (7.2%) Maibock/Heller Bock
Brauerei Schubel (https://www.schuebel-braeu.de/), Stadtsteinach

Light bock has never been my favourite style. The increased strength forces brewers to find ever sicklier ways of compensating. But all that time the answer to the problem has been here. Make it unfiltered, slightly amber, spicy and fruity.

This bock is rich with a fine grainy sediment that hangs in the glass almost in stasis. 7.2% is no joke for a half litre bottle but to be quite honest it tastes more like 5.5% it's so smooth and balanced.

Unfiltered spice and tang, bready lager hit with faintly smokey aftertaste ends what is in the mouth a smooth velvety concoction with a pronounced apricot flavour. On Mallorca you can get pastries with apricot and sobrasada on - fruit and meat combined and the savoury/fruit blend brought those things to mind. It really is utterly lovely. Dusky, silky, prolonged fruit with malt and hop tingle.

The persistence of each element, the lingering flavours makes this one of the most interesting strong German beers I've ever had.
I'm not sure I have had many, if any beers like this. Schubel impressed me when I had their kellerbier back in May, this is on a similar, perhaps even better level. Highly recommend this brewery and its wares.

Given Germany is arch-traditional, this, along with several others of the Franco-lads wares are evidence they're really, really terrible at marketing just how good they are, not to mention how prepared they are to play around with the styles.

Rating: **** and a half
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 20, 2020, 09:26:41 PM
Schubel sounds like a total stonker. I'll keep an eye out.

I got lucky and grabbed half a dozen Mahr's aU this evening on my way home. Never seen them in before but result because I almost ordered a case from bier-hibs or whatever. Bit knackered and getting a cold so just boosting some pretty decent IPA because I can't taste much (lol corono), on the Verdant Track and Field, but if I feel better tomorrow and not ventilated to fuck I'll be wheeling them out. Rather looking forward to them!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 23, 2020, 09:14:40 PM
I hope the Mahr's aU was enjoyable. Big fan.

I'm on the Hutten Zoigl tonight. Liquid rye bread, very fresh. Dark brown, soft in the mouth then a zingy bitter, almost chewy sensation in the aftertaste. No gimmicks, dogshit branding, completely unfashionable. Wouldn't win any taste sample contests, instead it wins you over by the sip. Almost as though it's slowly adding patina of flavours on your tongue. As it disappears you want more. Pure fuckin' beer.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 24, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_11_11/2129ef9607d6deac062787196dfa95e0_640x640.jpg)

Meinel-Brau Keller Marzen (5.6%) Marzen
Meinel-Brau (https://www.meinel-braeu.de/)u, Hof

A rare example of a Franconia brewery who have updated their branding. Quite clever, taking in some 50s stylings which will appeal to its base audience anyway. And what looks like a Fraulein on the label. Woke AF. AHH - That's why - this is a brewery owned and run by women. Rare as hen's teeth.

This beer is brewed in the city of Hof, right up in the Upper Palatinate/Oberpfalz, near the Czech border. Closest I've been was to Cheb, several years back. The city base might help explain why it enjoys smarter branding.

The label boasts caramel malt, hoppy aroma, longer cellaring and natural yeast, all of which are clearly true from sight, smell and taste.

First things first, this isn't quite as delightful as Weiherer Keller-Marzen, but then that is from a brewery with some serious chops. There's nothing wrong with this beer at all, it's very tasty as it happens. Given the absolute shite on show in the lager world, it should be firmly up in among good beers, but there's a hint of the 'off the rack' about it, like it's brewed off a set recipe. That might be a little harsh, as they may simply have been going for balance above all else. Or I might be right.

As far as balance goes, it works well. Strong, thick but with assertive bitterness. All elements blend well, yet none really puncture through to signal "Yes, this is what makes the beer distinctive." It is a tad gassy, I suppose. You can imagine knocking back a few and not really having anything to comment other than "Mm, very nice. Did the job."

The main tweak, if there is one is perhaps the choice of hops slightly screwing up the indulgent spice and unfiltered flavour. The bitterness and citric note is a bit of a bully and maybe doesn't achieve takeoff in the same way others might.

Rating: *** and a half





Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 24, 2020, 10:47:39 PM
^thats a lovely looking beer. Good for them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 24, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Should also say my partner tried their smoke beer Mephisto and gave that one top marks.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 24, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Should also say my partner tried their smoke beer Mephisto and gave that one top marks.

I bet she did the dirty old etc etc
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 24, 2020, 11:06:35 PM
I have an ok ESB on the go for anyone who cares.

It’s... fine. Perfunctory. Impossible to brew the style unless you’ve lived a life of english misery such as I, of course.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 24, 2020, 11:21:23 PM
Never had a decent ESB abroad, closest was Tea Time in Kraków which is a real rarity as that is a nano brewery that serves beer gravity poured direct from the tanks via some weird valve system so isn't even strictly speaking 'cask'.

The various attempts I've tried varied from the hapless to the absurd. What with this and the warm flat pints of London Pride in London I do wonder what on earth anyone abroad thinks of the style.

My old Swedish housemate loved cask pale after a while, but he could be trusted.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 25, 2020, 01:03:25 AM
It is over-carbed and over-strength. It’s a perfectly fine brown ale but it isn’t an ESB.

Happy to say the tin of NEIPA is very good so that’s something.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 25, 2020, 07:08:08 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2020_08_30/d566bb9c93c72e841b713aa66dd1ca43_640x640.jpg)

Hütten Fichtelgold (5.8%) Marzen
Brauerei Hütten Trassel (https://www.brauerei-huetten.de/), Warmensteinach

Two more different Marzens you couldn't hope to find. Only 0.2% difference in abv between this and the one above, but they approach the style from other directions.

Meinel was hoppy, almost citric (certainly not a flavour most people associate with the style), whereas this has more in common with something like Hacker Pschorr Oktoberfest. Somewhere in the middle of the two you have the normal Marzens.

A rich chestnut brown colour (darker than above), thick but fine foam that's really enticing while pouring. The lacings are also really fine. One of those beer elements that doesn't guarantee a fresh beer but is a strong indicator.

Classic soft texture in the mouth, caramel malt and a sort of bronzed quality to the hops. You might think they are low down in the mix but actually they're doing plenty of work here, prickling away the proverbial furnace, pretty vital to make this a beer one can drink in volume.

It's fairly simple, but effective stuff. Autumnal, hearty and fresh.

Rating: ****
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 25, 2020, 08:22:31 PM
It's time to update my list of these Franconian beers from Hier-Gibts-Bier.de. There have been 3 shipments in total - here is the shipment 2 update:

I'll be back with the update from the November lockdown batch in a few weeks. Additions in bold:

Pale Kellerbier/Zwickl biers

Mahrs aU - 9.5/10                  (Did I mention how this beer is close to being the best? Wonderous unfiltered lager)
Schubel Nordeck Trunk - 9/10    (Spicy with a citrusy hop)
Aufsesser Zwickl - 9/10             (Thick, unfiltered, tangy, farmhousey and light as air)
Hutten Zwickl - 8/10                  (Lighter than their Zoigl but still comparatively hefty)
Goller Kellerbier - 8/10              (An archetype of the style - cloudy, spicy, subtle hops and mildly agricultural notes)
St Georgen Kellerbier - 8/10 (I preferred this in bottles to the slightly too mellow tap serving. Brings out the finish a bit more)
Nikl Lagerbier Zwickl - 7.5/10    (Pale, super-refreshing with a slight crispness and citric element)
Nothaft Zwickl - 7.5/10          (Less bitter, highly drinkable, best keller-fresh to eke out every inch of flavour)
Mainseidla Keller - 7.5/10          (Pale and quite clear, minerality and green bitterness competing with gorgeous unfiltered tang)
Reh Zwickl - 7/10                      (Similar to Nikl and Schubel, enjoyable but less of a standout example)
Bamberger Keller - 7/10       (A tad sweet, a more trad 'expected' kellerbier with less of the homespun charm of the above)

Coppery Vollbier (inc. Kellerbiers/Landbiers)

Schubel 'a Frankisch' - 9.5/10       (One bottle was a dud, but the fresh one was pretty much the Ur-example of this style. Coppery, harmonious, gorgeous)
Simon Spezial - 8.5/10                       (Amber, Marzen-esque lager which starts nice then seems to get even nicer)
Honicka Heiner's Original - 8/10        (Floral bitterness with frothy soft but full textured ambery lager, a surprise find)
Fassla Zwergla - 8/10                   (Strong yet well-hopped brown landbier. Dry malty nutty backtaste. More Landbier than Munich Dunkel)
Reckendorfer Kellerbier - 7.5/0         (Brownish, easy drinking coppery malty lager)
Hetzelsdorfer Vollbier - 7.5/10          (Subtly creeps up on you. Not overly complex but stop searching and focus on the drinkability)
Meister Vollbier - 7.5/10                    (Soft in the mouth but bitter tingly hops and roast malt competing in aftertaste)
Buchenbacher Beck'n'bier - 7/10      (Low % for the style, but this is liquid pretzel. Roast malt, bready, tingly hops, good balance)
Schubel Drachenseidla - 7/10       (Despite the fancy name, a routine decent brown keller, tasty, fairly bitter)
Frauendorfer Landbier - 7/10           (A lynchpin of the style rather than an outstanding copper-brown kellerbier)
Hallerndorfer Kellerbier - 7/10          (More coppery coloured than you'd expect. Again roast malt, sweetness, tingly finish)
Stockl Ahorntaler Landbier - 7/10     (Brown, malty yet still refreshing. Not overly sweet. Lager mirror image of an English bitter

Dunkels/Brown kellerbier

Weiherer Zwickerla Dunkel - 9.5/10    (Almost overwhelmingly delicious. Reddish, full, thick, swirling, intoxicating and light as air)
Weissenohe Kloster Sud - 9/10       (Brown Vienna lager with much more complexity and indulgence that you'd expect)
Honicka Wonnesud - 8.5/10           (Every delicious drop of this smooth, rich, joyful Munich Dunkel is worth savouring.)
Weiherer Urstoffla - 8.5/10           (Munich Dunkel. Bready, malty, ever so slightly odd brown rather than dark beer. Standout)
Langbrau Burggraf Dunkel - 8/10      (Munich Dunkel, on the roasty end of things. Dry in the mouth but smooth finish and thick)
Bauernbier Dunkel - 8/10                   (Forgot my notes but this one was a terrific Munich dunkel)
Aufsesser Dunkel - 8/10                    (Only a shade darker than the brilliant Zwickel and nearly as good. Just a tone darker)
Ott Obaladara - 8/10                     (Smooth, sweet with a building bitterness. Indulgent)
Manns Brau - 8/10                         (Dark brown rather than black, big and malty, with hops trying to give chase, like Schwarzbier)
Bamberger Schwarzla - 8/10         (A straight up Schwarzbier, hoppy, black as night, roasty but slight coconut/oystery element)
Stelzer Ritter Trunk - 7.5/10          (Tough to miss out on an 8. This is real cro-magnon beer, roast malt, hearty, gothic)
Lindenharter Landbier - 7.5/10         (Make peace with the dark brown colour, and it is rich, toasty and full flavoured )
Bamberger Braunbier - 7.5/10           (Delicious Dunk/Keller hybrid. Malty but lively hops. The better end of both worlds)
Leupser Dunkel - 7/10                       (Dry wholemealy dunkel that has a very distinct character. Well brewed.
Gunther Bernstein - 5/10               (The malt doesn't sit quite right, unfortunately. Not in the same league)

Weissbier

Kuchlbauer Turmweisse - 9/10         (A genuine competitor for Schneider Original and Sternweisse for light brown wheatbeer flavour
Kapuziner Weissbier- 8.5/10       (One of the bigger names in this obscure list, but among the best wheatbeers out there.)
Gutmann Dunkles Weisen - 8.5/10(Bonafide classic. Among the best big-brew dark wheatbeers. So well balanced, deceptively drinkable.)
Nothelfer Bioweisse - 8/10               (A trad attempt at Bavarian wheatbeer that nails it. So fresh and worthy of high praise)
Kapuziner Kellermarzen                   (Interesting attempt to blend kellerbier and wheatbeer. Tough balance to strike but it works)
Schroll Nankendorfer Weizenbier - 6/10( (lost its head and went flat, flavour was ok)

Zoiglbiers

Stelzer Fattigau Zoigl - 8.5/10          (Great label. Vienna-style lager. Full flavour, caramel malt, well balanced bitter finish. Exemplary)
Kemnath Zoigl - 8.5/10                (Pale, bitter balance is impressive, unfiltered, unpasteurised, pure freshness)
Hutten Zoigl - 8/10                         (A stand-out brown beer that shows so much skill. Bursting with flavour yet moreishly drinkable )
Wurth Zoigl Hell - 8/10               (Really unusual. Earthy, leathery, fruity, faint smoke, then trad tangy, spicy aftertaste. Weird and good)
Rawetzter Zoigl - 8/10                (Pale keller, amber, thick, bitter at the front then thick gentle floral aftertaste, great stuff
Wurth Zoigl Dunkel - 7.5/10           (Weird one. Dunkel Zoigl. Malty yet thick and light. Unlike any beer I've had)   
Scherdel Zoigl - 7.5/10                   (Similar to a pale kellerbier but a little more spicy and thick. Nice but not a standout)
(Paul) Puttner Zoigl - 7.5/10          (Coppery kellerbier similar to the vollbiers above. Thick, sweet, hoppy and reddish brown
Monschof Zoigl - 7.5/10              (The most commercial beer with 'Zoigl' on it. Still pretty good but a more typical kellerbier experience)

Marzen
Monschof Historic Marzen - 8/10    (So light considering strength and sweetness, floaty, thick, fresh, pleasant hoppy landing and honeyed aftertaste)
Aufsesser Marzen - 7/10                 (Slightler lower strength cloudy amber Marzen. Pleasant without standing out.)


Weird/Atypical Ones

Leikem Steinbier - 8.5/10                       (An absolute one off - thick, strong light yet...faintly charred and elemental. Has to be tried)
Spezial Rauchbier - 8.5/10                     (May as well put it out there. This is better than Schlenkerla Marzen.)
Veldensteiner Rotbier - 8.5/10           (A style some pretend never existed. Whatever it is, it's brilliant. Reddish, rich, sweet, still lagery)
Langbrau Super Ale - 8/10                 (Weird but good. Unfiltered with hints of belgian blonde and kellerbier. It's an ale! Wheat in here too.)
Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff - 8/10                 (Deceptive bready Dortmunder style lager that just gets better with every gulp)
Hubner Vollbier  - 7.5/10                        (Smoked malt provides a surprise background flavour to this pale lager, and it works)
Frauendorfer Rauchbier - 7.5/10            (Smoke is not at the forefront, but it still props up the lager nicely)
Krug Brau Urstoff - 7.0/10                      (One of the less remarkable beers of this selection, but still enjoyable pleasant pale lager)
Langbrau Maibock - 6.5/10                    (Slight failure to launch, as the head disappeared leaving behind an appley-grassy  palebock)
Glenk Walkentrunk - 5/10                      (Disastrous. Something was wrong with the bottle. The head evaporated on impact with the glass.)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 25, 2020, 08:36:18 PM
This thread is a treasure trove. Took 3-5 years off my life but what am I gonna do with them? A fun run?

LGP
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 26, 2020, 06:17:30 PM
https://www.beerwulf.com/en-gb/black-friday-beer-deals

Of potential interest to some, I'd imagine.

By the way - BeerWulf are phasing out individual bottle and can purchases and only selling pre-prepared cases from next year onwards.

I haven't used them for quite a while now as the range and value has got steadily poorer, but to see them doing this is pretty critical.

I wonder how Beers of Europe will cope post-Brexit. If at all.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on November 27, 2020, 12:14:55 PM
Thanks for the reviews and recommendations, Shoulders.

Ordered from hier-gibts-bier.de:

1 x Hönicka Wonnesud
1 x Weiherer Bio-Zwickerla Dunkel
1 x Weiherer Urstöffla
1 x Günther Bockbier Dunkel
1 x Mahrs a U
1 x Kuchlbauer Weißbier "Alte Liebe"
1 x Stelzer - Zoigl Bier
1 x Würth Zoigl Dunkel
1 x Hönicka Heiner's Original
1 x Held Dunkel
1 x Gutmann Dunkles Hefeweizen
1 x Würth Zoigl Hell

Fuck tier 3.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 27, 2020, 01:20:29 PM
A very nice haul.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pingers on November 27, 2020, 07:59:03 PM
I was just in my local Turkish shop and saw some bottles of Tuborg Fiçi. What's this? I thought. Could be a bit of a find. Turns out it's just another dull malty lager like they have in that Eastern Europe, glad I only bought one.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 27, 2020, 08:09:03 PM
It's still brewed by Carlsberg.

I would be more up for trying Turk Tuborg's "Frederik" range. Some more acceptable stuff there by the look of it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pingers on November 27, 2020, 08:23:12 PM
I have never seen Tuborg Classic for sale in the UK, that is the nicest one by far, although I also quite like the Julebryg.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on November 27, 2020, 09:37:18 PM
Mahrs aU - 9.5/10                  (Did I mention how this beer is close to being the best? Wonderous unfiltered lager)

Just picked up a couple of these. Half a bottle in an couldn't agree more. It's quite the beer. It is unlike any other beer of it's type that I have had in that you get that initial blast of the Kellerbier taste but then when you expect the slightly funky after taste that sits in your throat it kinda just vanishes. It's simultaneously got a depth of flavour and is light as (well either that or I have covid and lost my sense of smell).

Thanks.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on November 27, 2020, 10:01:03 PM
My local Saino's has stopped selling Leffe. Got some Duvel instead.

Cor, Duvel is not very nice, is it?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blinder Data on November 27, 2020, 10:08:19 PM
Aw, I like Duvel. It satisfies my infrequently indulged Belgium beer cravings when required.

My local Morrisons always has the same range of Scottish ales. Would be nice to have more choices BUT I am thankful to regular access to Orkney Brewery's Corncrake and Cairngorms Brewery's Trade Winds. Two fine, fine golden ales.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on November 27, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
I've always found Duvel to be a solid everyday choice. Unremarkable but serviceable. Not the Citra stuff though because it's shite.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on November 27, 2020, 10:11:54 PM
The big branch of Tesco's near us does Duvel Citra. I am averse to very hoppy beers though so I have never been tempted.

Want a Chimay.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pingers on November 27, 2020, 10:34:23 PM
My local Saino's has stopped selling Leffe. Got some Duvel instead.

Cor, Duvel is not very nice, is it?

Lidl do Leffe, blonde et brune, at least in England
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on November 27, 2020, 10:45:15 PM
Lidl do Leffe, blonde et brune

I feel like there's got to be a 'considers rewrite...' joke in there somewhere
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Blue Jam on November 27, 2020, 10:48:42 PM
My local Tesco's also does Leffe. It's bloody everywhere here but I was being a lazy bastard tonight.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 28, 2020, 12:19:59 AM
Duvel's still very well thought of, even in craft circles.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 28, 2020, 12:35:55 AM
Never been massively impressed by Duvel, but been a long time since I had one so I might just be wrong.

Got a mega bourbon-barrel aged 11% imperial stout to celebrate THIS FUCKIN HOUSE I JUST BOUGHT LADS.

It’s alright like.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on November 29, 2020, 12:45:25 AM
Shoulders!

I’m not really a fan of smoked beers so not sure if this is recommedation not but accidentally picked up a bamberg spezial kauchbier (i think that is what it called). Very smooth with just right amount of smoke.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Urinal Cake on November 29, 2020, 12:58:08 AM
I've always found Duvel to be a solid everyday choice. Unremarkable but serviceable. Not the Citra stuff though because it's shite.
I thought that was the point of Duvel it was a good/great Belgian pale ale that hid it's alcohol well- something that's technically very difficult to do.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 29, 2020, 01:01:17 AM
I thought that was the point of Duvel it was a good/great Belgian pale ale that hid it's alcohol well- something that's technically very difficult to do.

[ferris posts some fucking tedious explanation about how strong ABV flavours can be overcome but it (probably) isn’t commercially viable]
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Dex Sawash on November 29, 2020, 01:45:21 AM
[ferris posts some fucking tedious explanation about how strong ABV flavours can be overcome but it (probably) isn’t commercially viable]

Do we get to read it on your onlyfans[1]?
 1. I'm tired and am certain I've left an obvious onlyxxxs joke on the table here
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Dex Sawash on November 29, 2020, 01:46:51 AM
Onlycans ffs
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 29, 2020, 02:22:18 AM
Onlycans ffs

Ah that would have been a decent gag. Fuckin autocorrect ruined it
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 29, 2020, 10:33:43 AM
Shoulders!

I’m not really a fan of smoked beers so not sure if this is recommedation not but accidentally picked up a bamberg spezial kauchbier (i think that is what it called). Very smooth with just right amount of smoke.

Ah yeah, Spezial Rauchbier is one of my faves of that style. A pint at their brewery tap is non-negotiable when visiting Bamberg.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: spaghetamine on November 29, 2020, 03:33:39 PM
Anyone fuck with Arbor Ales? Just bought a crate of four different ones from them, currently sipping on a Rocketman and rating it

(https://www.beermetropolis.com/uploadedresources/products/large_427-2-1594818458-dsc_0692.jpg)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: king_tubby on November 29, 2020, 03:41:00 PM
Yeah, like 'em a lot, pricey though.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 29, 2020, 03:43:18 PM
We get their Blue Sky Drinking (a hoppy bitter) in Leeds, pretty decent.

I often mix them up with Moor Beers for some reason. (Their owners have been cancelled on Twitter but I forget why)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on November 29, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/tB6nqpN/20201129-155433.jpg)

BA Cherry Tonkoko 2020 - Brew York


I don't generally drink anything besides German and Belgian now but I really enjoyed the original Tonkoko back around lockdown one, and so I decided to take a punt on these burgundy barrel aged Cherry Tonkokos and this is one hell of a beer. Got all that heady coconut, dark chocolate bitterness and tonka sweet richness, but with a lovely fragrant cherry tang. Delightful stuff if that's all it was. The burgundy barrel gives it something else, though. Real pucker to the finish, lip-smacking mouth-watering dry tannin pucker.

I would get more if I could find them.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 29, 2020, 04:12:28 PM
Been seeing some really strong stouts at Morrisons lately. I usually pick them up feh meh behrd on the rare occasion they don't pointlessly contain lactose
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 29, 2020, 04:33:40 PM
Lactose doesn’t ferment so if you want a sweet stout you have to add it (as regular sugar would get fermented and turned into alcohol). There are alternatives that do more or less the same thing (I have a bag of xylitol I use occasionally for brewing sweet ciders), but that’s the traditional reason anyway.

Feel free to drop that tedious lecture into the next conversation when the topic is raised.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 29, 2020, 05:13:40 PM
Quote
Lactose doesn’t ferment so if you want a sweet stout you have to add it

Sure? I remember several sweet vegan friendly stouts I've had over the years.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 29, 2020, 05:29:29 PM
Sure? I remember several sweet vegan friendly stouts I've had over the years.

They might be on the xylitol tip, I think using yer actual lactose is probably old hat and/or tradition more than anything else. I wonder if not using lactose is an actual decision (ie the default is to add a load of lactose and bollocks to vegans) but I have no idea.

I reckon if you need to add body to stouts/porters then you’ve got your grain bill all wrong and are on a hiding to nothing already, but take my opinion for what it is worth (very little).
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 29, 2020, 08:30:44 PM
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2019_11_19/710bfe62bc5abea8d95cf53f03510c23_640x640.jpg)

Lang Brau Festbier (5.5% Christmas/Special Beer)
Langbrau (http://www.lang-braeu.de), Wunsiedel-Schonbrunn

It's heading towards that time of year I guess, and in Lagerland that means all kinds of weirdo brews emerge. Like Czechia, there is no real consistent style to winter lagers in Germany. This is unlike Belgium (very strong, dark and fruity) or England (classic winter warmer dark brown ale).

So when pouring this Festbier, I didn't know what to expect other than its amber colour and that it was notch above normal lager strength. Lang Brau's other creations have been hit and miss, so really had no expectations.

The reverse label (nice branding at this brewery by the way across all their range) talks about something like a beer to 'light the fire at a cold time of year', intensive mashing and spring water.

Yes, it's strong, full in the mouth, not much head at all (not sure how the fuck ^^^ they managed that) and it disappears quickly (a problem I had with a previous Lang Brau beer). There is distinct hoppiness that feels fresh and lingering bitterness on the tongue that makes it feel fresh, perhaps even piney, but maybe grassy would a better description. Weihenstephaner's Festbier is not miles away from this, to use it as a baseline.

And that's the way this one goes, a slight battle between the fuller texture and the almost IPA level bitterness that isn't too harmonious, and a head that disappears too quickly leading to slight gloop and disappointment.

I'd say it's semi-successful but don't quite understand why anyone would want to be drinking this 5.5% lager as part of a Christmas celebration over something really rich chocolatey and indulgent. Ze Germans.

Rating: ***
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on November 29, 2020, 10:44:27 PM
Anyone fuck with Arbor Ales? Just bought a crate of four different ones from them, currently sipping on a Rocketman and rating it

(https://www.beermetropolis.com/uploadedresources/products/large_427-2-1594818458-dsc_0692.jpg)

Haven't had any in a while but Shangri La was a really solid refreshing pale and I've never had anything worse than good from Arbor. I hope it has survived the murkening. Lost count of the number of old beers that I enjoyed that have taken on 'juicy' characteristics in recent years and are no longer the same light bodied and crisp ale.

I have one of these strong, lactosed stouts from Morrisons that S?S! mentioned. Northern Monk + Lervig: Norse Star, vanilla, cacao and almond. The supermarket imp stouts offer a bit more range than the DIPAs supermarkets frequently stock now (Brewdog Jackhammer, Vocation Love and Hate, Brewdog/Cloudwater Collab, Northern Monk Transient etc etc) which are borderline an embarrassment to craft beer imo. Zero imagination gakky baby food that's all moreorless the same. Chicken Korma. Similar story with a lot of the pales, with only a few standouts. I bought four different 500ml bottles of Kernel Pale Ale last week and the difference was stark. With supermarkets selling 8x330ml cans of pale for £9 now it probably shouldn't come as any surprise at all that a can selling for just over £1 in the UK has its limitations. It is a little sad that the craft beer revolution has largely manifested in the mainstream as a range of beer with about as much variety as the macro lager range

Edit: probably a bit harsh that. Larger Morissons and M&S stock quite a bit now that has improved the range. Brewdog though, Christ it is everywhere. Weak shit, medium shit, strong shit, strong shit with grapefruit. Strong murky shit. All the same, all tastes of shit

Edit 2: Stout is undrinkably sweet. More baby food.

Has the craft beer revolution managed to produce one truly great beer for mainstream production and consumption yet?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 29, 2020, 11:57:14 PM
Quote
Has the craft beer revolution managed to produce one truly great beer for mainstream production and consumption yet?

If we're talking supermarket beer, there weren't that many truly great beers for mainstream production and consumption available in UK supermarkets, anyway. In fact if I listed some people would doubtlessly disagree with one or two.

I had a couple of boxes of Northern Monk New World and Vocation Life & Death leftover after a weekend away. Both are in those 8 for £10 deals. There's just nothing to write home about. One bitter dishwater texture glack, one fruit salady, sickly glack. Both baseline acceptable especially when considering the price.

The craft scene chases fads so it's not a huge surprise that they haven't bestowed keystone top class supermarket options. Every time a brewery makes a great new beer they get bored of it or it more than likely doesn't fit the lager/session ipa template supermarkets want.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Urinal Cake on November 30, 2020, 12:04:57 AM
Has the craft beer revolution managed to produce one truly great beer for mainstream production and consumption yet?
If Hoegaarden is considered 'craft' then maybe.

I'd say Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is probably the grandfather beer that made all other pale ales popular and a real competition to lagers/pilsners etc.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 30, 2020, 12:21:54 AM
Is anyone interested if I do Shoulders-style reviews of the tinnies I can get out here? Not sure if that’s esoteric and tedious or even slightly worthwhile. I’ll try and be funny, promise.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 30, 2020, 12:28:17 AM
Is anyone interested if I do Shoulders-style reviews of the tinnies I can get out here? Not sure if that’s esoteric and tedious or even slightly worthwhile. I’ll try and be funny, promise.

Do it mate, that's exactly what the thread is for.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on November 30, 2020, 12:30:59 AM
Do it mate, that's exactly what the thread is for.

Just feels very self-involved when I’m the only cunt drinking them.

Next time I get something a bit nice from a local brewery I’ll type something up. I have a Garrison “Tall Ship” on the go just now which is fine but far too uninspiring to write about.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on November 30, 2020, 01:02:07 AM
Sierra Nevada undoubtedly is the one great beer of the craft scene that has endured and had time to do so. It's just so old that I almost think of it predating the contemporary scene. The closest thing I can think of in the last 10 years is Jaipur, which has quite unique characteristics in the supermarket isle but hasn't had the success of other contemporaries like , urgh, Punk IPA
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 01, 2020, 06:09:00 PM
I have a Garrison “Tall Ship” on the go just now which is fine but far too uninspiring to write about.

Just had one in a bottle, and it is actually a cracking little beer (to the point where I felt I should come back in here and correct myself).

I’ve always thought beer tasting different from cans/bottles was absolute mince, but I might have had that wrong all these years. It was fine in the can, but far more complex and interesting out of a bottle. Might be my go-to common ale/lager for the next little while. Nice one.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on December 01, 2020, 08:02:54 PM
What is 'the murkening' exactly? Is it more stuff being unfined? I've not noticed that making a huge difference taste wise personally, maybe a slightly different texture/mouthfeel
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 01, 2020, 08:19:45 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2017/jun/18/murky-beer-cloudy-craft-ale

I found this. I remember the scene mid-way through the decade being about 'dank', 'haze', 'murk' IPAs that looked different shades of fruit juice, smelled slightly oniony.

Quote
New England is the most modern and approachable iteration of IPA,” says Jones

Whereas I'd argue the reverse. It isn't radler, the combo is still of bitterness with the tropical fruit and some wilder qualities by virtue of the unfiltered smaller batch brewing. I don't know anyone who found beer through NEIPA but then I'm 34 not 24.

Session IPA must be the most approachable iteration as that's what's doing most supermarket and pub business.

Anyway, I believe removing filtration is most dramatic for lagers above all else, adding thickness and releasing fundamental vibrancy and subtlety.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on December 01, 2020, 10:20:02 PM
Don't have any problem with unfiltered beer. Quite the opposite. Just noticed over the last few years (and unfortunately I can't even think of the examples right now) that a few beers seemed to have changed characteristics to fall in line with the recent trends re grain bill and yeast. Dialing down the bitterness, dialing up the viscosity and sweetness. That's what I associate with that period when most beers became murky, moreso than filtration. I enjoy the balance in good IPAs between dry, bitter, sweet and boozy. That just doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. It's just how fruity can you make it and how well are you able to conceal the booze, because that boozy taste is fucking horrible lurking underneath an 8% NEIPA. I've had some terrific NEIPA/hazy pales up to about 5.5% but pretty much every DNEIPA I've tried has been rank. The less accessible beers they're talking about, presumably West coast style beers, seemed much better suited to embrace the booziness instead of it being a dirty little secret. I don't brew though so I don't know what I'm talking about

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 01, 2020, 10:51:30 PM
You do drink though, which is a pretty decent qualification.

Whenever I've tried DIPAs (just standard ones, not NE or NZ or any other kind) they are so similar to me to the standard IPA or AIPA that all that's going on is the brewer is showing off being able to conceal the booze content. It is quite impressive, no doubt, but the price rise makes it a bit of a dead end. Why plough through an 8% beer that tastes like a 5% one when it's costing you so much more per round for no major difference.

Also, while we're at it, why not just make a tripel that's boozy, spicy, hoppy, yeasty and lovely sorry, hobby horse
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 01, 2020, 11:53:16 PM
Yer standard west coast IPA really doesn’t have much room to be anything more than “ooh this one is now even stronger and even more bitter”. If you’re mad into hops, some of them are technically impressive in terms of how well they capture the aroma and flavour of specific varieties, but I’m not a fan really. I find them oily, and they require very little skill to churn out. Ho hum.

NEIPAs are a bit smarter about from a brewing perspective - you can impart the aroma of hops without isomerizing the bitter oil in the hops themselves and produce a beer that is simultaneously hoppy and sweet. Phes - that is what you are describing below and you’re bang on. It’s a clever trick, but you can only push it so far. I like NEIPAs personally, but they look like the toilet leavings of an unwell horse visually speaking so I get why people aren’t fans.

**ferris hot take alert**

-> Beer fining/clarifying does fuck all in my experience, and I doubt the majority of cicerones could reliably pick out the same beer (one fined, one not) in a blind taste test. It is about appearance, and punters expect a cloudy oily job when they order a beer in this style so that’s what breweries are giving them. Nowt to do with flavour I reckon.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 01, 2020, 11:59:50 PM
Quote
Beer fining/clarifying does fuck all in my experience,

I have a feeling the effect on keg pales might be less obvious due to the flavour profile and at times the overly ice cold servings.

There aren't too many beers which offer filtered and unfiltered equivalents of the exact same beer commercially but I'd be interested in you making the same claim about Pilsner Urquell and Pilsner Urquell Nefiltrovany (which i believe is just the unfiltered version of the same beer rather than a bespoke unfiltered lager piggybacking on the brand name) , pretty significant non-cosmetic differences there.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 02, 2020, 12:03:30 AM
I should add I have absolutely no basis for my assertion beyond my own home brewing adventures when I have/haven’t bothered clarifying and not noticed the difference. I’d be really interested to test this new half baked theory on commercial beers - is the urquell the same beer but in clarified/unclarified versions? That’d be one to seek out, though I have 0 chance of finding either here.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 02, 2020, 12:08:33 AM
Yep, I believe so.

I believe I could blind taste an unfiltered lager 7/10 times over a filtered one. Franconia would be tricky as their inconsistent and occasionally unusual brewing methods make everything seems homespun and 'unfiltered' but even with that I'd happily back myself.



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on December 02, 2020, 12:14:54 AM
Are vegan beer finings as affordable as the old non-vegan finings? Presumably current style trends and the massive growth in demand for vegetarian/vegan products must be a happy coincidence
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 02, 2020, 12:31:31 AM
No idea to be honest, isinglass and gelatin are both non-vegan. I’m actually not sure what the vegan alternatives are - Irish moss is a load of shit so doubt that’s being used by any commercial breweries.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on December 02, 2020, 10:47:56 AM
Got a load of Christmassy beers to drink, bet they're fucking rank, can't wait
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 03, 2020, 09:08:43 PM
Nice to be back enjoying some cask ale after lockdown.

Some trad stuff: Settle Mainline, Theakston, Thwaites Original, some more modern, Ainsty Assassin Oatmeal Stout, Jaipur (which wasn't bad though given it was a Thornbridge place it should be really).

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on December 04, 2020, 03:35:20 PM
Night out in York?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on December 04, 2020, 04:22:49 PM
No idea to be honest, isinglass and gelatin are both non-vegan. I’m actually not sure what the vegan alternatives are - Irish moss is a load of shit so doubt that’s being used by any commercial breweries.

There must be as I've had plenty of clear beer that is certified vegan.

This murk thing seems to me to be more about the style of beer than the actual murkiness of the stuff. I'm not overly fussed about it being clear or not taste wise, I suspect I could taste a slight difference, but not massively. The whole IPA dominance does get on my tits in general, whichever IPA variant happens to be most popular at the moment.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 04, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Night out in York?

Fate worse than death.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 05, 2020, 10:51:58 AM
They can use special mechanical methods to replace isinglass. Guinness do it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 05, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
I bet they do the dirty old etc etc
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: poo on December 08, 2020, 11:41:08 AM
obviously been done before, but can someone confirm that this Beer52 thing is total anus, so that I don't have to think anymore about sending off for the "free" intro case.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 08, 2020, 12:12:45 PM
obviously been done before, but can someone confirm that this Beer52 thing is total anus, so that I don't have to think anymore about sending off for the "free" intro case.

From what I've heard from friends and others it's better than Flavourly but worse than most of the rest, and you have to remember to cancel the subscription which I believe is phone only.

Given the hassle you may as well buy a box fucked full of ace beer from somewhere else rather than get lured in by their freebie promises. But that's only my take.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: poo on December 08, 2020, 12:17:40 PM
Aye.


Recommend me a box of beer then - maybe something Belgian/mixed. Will buy.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 08, 2020, 12:34:52 PM
I'd head to http://Speciaalbierpakket.nl and just fill the cart up with 20-30 bottles that look good. They have been super reliable for me and I think worked out fine for others here, even with shipping still works out more affordable than buying from a UK based online beer shop.

If you just want a quick gift pack then:

https://www.lesbieresbelges.be/en/catalog/packs/22-0-0-0-1.aspx
https://www.beerwulf.com/en-gb/c/mixedbeercases
https://store.belgianshop.com/74-tasting-packs
https://www.latelierdesbieres.fr/15-coffrets-bouteilles-sp%C3%A9ciales



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: poo on December 08, 2020, 03:22:13 PM
Thanks. Ordered a Trappist Pack.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 08, 2020, 07:31:02 PM
I got some free Beer 52 cases if you want a link. PM for deets.

I got a Beer 52 advent calendar today too. Today's was Pineapple Express. Was very palatable.

The link to Beerwulf seems more expensive per-beer than Beer52 and they're all 330mls. I guess judging by your other links you're a fan of the Belgian booze but none of the available cases tickle my fancy.

I was thinking of just popping on Wowcher and getting a random case.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 08, 2020, 08:49:59 PM
I got some free Beer 52 cases if you want a link. PM for deets.

I got a Beer 52 advent calendar today too. Today's was Pineapple Express. Was very palatable.

The link to Beerwulf seems more expensive per-beer than Beer52 and they're all 330mls. I guess judging by your other links you're a fan of the Belgian booze but none of the available cases tickle my fancy.

I was thinking of just popping on Wowcher and getting a random case.

It was because poo asked for some with Belgian options.

I don't buy preset packs because of control freakery and as I've got plenty of time to browse.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 08, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
If anyone's interested I got this bargain (https://www.wowcher.co.uk/deal/manchester/16409272/12-bottle-craft-beer-tasting-box-14-99?usr_src=search). For me.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 08, 2020, 10:27:08 PM
Quite disconcerting that the brewery C84 have nearly no profile let alone ratings on Untappd. Down from £33? Where?

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 08, 2020, 11:00:01 PM
Quite disconcerting that the brewery C84 have nearly no profile let alone ratings on Untappd. Down from £33? Where?

Welcome to Wowcher!

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 08, 2020, 11:06:58 PM
Welcome to Wowcher!

Well precisely. You seemed excited though?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: poo on December 08, 2020, 11:14:00 PM
Gone and bought an Orval chalice too fuckit
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 13, 2020, 02:17:24 PM
Ok, so I've finally finished what will probably be the last Hier-Gibts-Bier.de shipment for me. With Brexit due to fuck international shipping to the UK up logistically and commercially, it will certainly put off companies offering UK shipping and in turn their costs will put off buyers. Wait and see, but I'm not expecting good things. Not to mention the dive in £ sterling in January.

However, if anyone wants to get some amazing Franconian beers in from smaller breweries, there's enough time to place your order in the next few days and receive it well before Christmas.

My last shipment had some bocks, marzens and winter beers in, while trying to pick up one or two others I hadn't got around to trying. Anyway, here is the final verdict:

Pale Kellerbier/Zwickl biers

Mahrs aU - 9.5/10                        (Did I mention how this beer is close to being the best? Wonderous unfiltered lager)
Schubel Nordeck Trunk - 9/10      (Spicy with a citrusy hop)
Aufsesser Zwickl - 9/10                (Thick, unfiltered, tangy, farmhousey and light as air)
Ur Frauendorfer Naturturb-8.5/10 (Similar to Mahrs aU. Unfiltered, golden, aley toffee notes faintly in there, knock back drinkable)
Hutten Zwickl - 8/10                     (Lighter than their Zoigl but still comparatively hefty)
Huppendorfer Zwickel - 8/10        (On the yeasty, spicey, grainy side. Very mild hops but fresh and indulgently wonderful)
Goller Kellerbier - 8/10                  (An archetype of the style - cloudy, spicy, subtle hops and mildly agricultural notes)
St Georgen Kellerbier - 8/10         (I preferred this in bottles to the slightly too mellow tap serving. Brings out the finish a bit more)
Adler Stopflder Zwickl - 7.5/10      (Knocks most session IPA out of the park for complexity, texture and drinkability. An eye opener)
Nikl Lagerbier Zwickl - 7.5/10        (Pale, super-refreshing with a slight crispness and citric element)
Nothaft Zwickl - 7.5/10                  (Less bitter, highly drinkable, best keller-fresh to eke out every inch of flavour)
Mainseidla Keller - 7.5/10              (Pale and quite clear, minerality and green bitterness competing with gorgeous unfiltered tang)
Reh Zwickl - 7/10                           (Similar to Nikl and Schubel, bitter. Enjoyable but less of a standout example)
Bamberger Keller - 7/10                (A tad sweet, a more trad 'expected' kellerbier with less of the homespun charm of the above)

Coppery Vollbier (inc. Kellerbiers/Landbiers)

Schubel 'a Frankisch' - 9/10              (One bottle was a dud, but the fresh one was pretty much the Ur-example of this style. Coppery, harmonious, gorgeous)
Simon Spezial - 8.5/10                      (Amber, Marzen-esque lager which starts nice then seems to get even nicer)
Honicka Heiner's Original - 8/10        (Floral bitterness with frothy soft but full textured ambery lager, a surprise find)
Fassla Zwergla - 8/10                       (Strong yet well-hopped brown landbier. Dry malty nutty backtaste. More Landbier than Munich Dunkel)
Adler Altfrankisches Lager - 8/10      (Chestnut colour, full body, punchy bright hops, slightly floral, a strong, typical example of the region)
Reckendorfer Kellerbier - 7.5/0         (Brownish, easy drinking coppery malty lager)
Hetzelsdorfer Vollbier - 7.5/10          (Subtly creeps up on you. Not overly complex but stop searching and focus on the drinkability)
Meister Vollbier - 7.5/10                    (Soft in the mouth but bitter tingly hops and roast malt competing in aftertaste)
Buchenbacher Beck'n'bier - 7/10      (Low % for the style, but this is liquid pretzel. Roast malt, bready, tingly hops, good balance)
Schubel Drachenseidla - 7/10          (Despite the fancy name, a routine decent brown keller, tasty, fairly bitter)
Frauendorfer Landbier - 7/10           (A lynchpin of the style rather than an outstanding copper-brown kellerbier)
Hallerndorfer Kellerbier - 7/10          (More coppery coloured than you'd expect. Again roast malt, sweetness, tingly finish)
Stockl Ahorntaler Landbier - 7/10     (Brown, malty yet still refreshing. Not overly sweet. Lager mirror image of an English bitter. Maybe missing the balance and complexity of some others.)

Dunkels/Brown kellerbier

Weiherer Zwickerla Dunkel - 9.5/10    (Almost overwhelmingly delicious. Reddish, full, thick, swirling, intoxicating and light as air)
Weissenohe Kloster Sud - 9/10          (Brown Vienna lager with much more complexity and indulgence that you'd expect)
Puttner Basalter Dunkel - 8.5/10        (Exemplary. Black, thick, rich, decently hopped and perfectly balanced. Very nice)
Honicka Wonnesud - 8.5/10               (Every delicious drop of this smooth, rich, joyful Munich Dunkel is worth savouring.)
Weiherer Urstoffla - 8.5/10                (Munich Dunkel. Bready, malty, ever so slightly odd brown rather than dark beer. Standout)
Wagner Dunkel - 8.5/10                    (A touch lighter shade. Stronger and more complex than some, rich and rewarding)
Langbrau Burggraf Dunkel - 8/10      (Munich Dunkel, on the roasty end of things. Dry in the mouth but smooth finish and thick)
Bauernbier Dunkel - 8/10                   (Forgot my notes but this one was a terrific Munich dunkel)
Aufsesser Dunkel - 8/10                    (Only a shade darker than the brilliant Zwickel and nearly as good. Just a tone darker)
Ott Obaladara - 8/10                         (Smooth, sweet with a building bitterness. Indulgent)
Manns Brau - 8/10                             (Dark brown rather than black, big and malty, with hops trying to give chase, like Schwarzbier)
Bamberger Schwarzla - 8/10             (A straight up Schwarzbier, hoppy, black as night, roasty but slight coconut/oystery element)
Sonne Zunft Trunk - 7.5/10               (Unusual one. Brown keller, hoppy and malty at first but really mellows out, though light considering the strength)
Staffelberg Wienerla - 7.5/10            (Vienna lager, strongish, thick texture but backed up with distinct floral bitterness and drying finish)
Stelzer Ritter Trunk - 7.5/10               (Tough to miss out on an 8. This is real cro-magnon beer, roast malt, hearty, gothic)
Meinel Dunkel - 7.5/10                       (Low % dunkel. Successful idea. Toned down but highly drinkable)
Lindenharter Landbier - 7.5/10          (Make peace with the dark brown colour, and it is rich, toasty and full flavoured )
Bamberger Braunbier - 7.5/10           (Delicious Dunk/Keller hybrid. Malty but lively hops. The better end of both worlds)
Leupser Dunkel - 7/10                       (Dry wholemealy dunkel that has a very distinct character. Well brewed.
Gunther Bernstein - 5/10                   (The malt doesn't sit quite right, unfortunately. Not in the same league)

Weissbier

Weiherer Weizenbock - 9.5/10         (An near out of this world light brown weizenbock. Rich, intoxicating and unparalleled)
Kuchlbauer Turmweisse - 9/10         (A genuine competitor for Schneider Original and Sternweisse for light brown wheatbeer flavour)
Kapuziner Weissbier- 8.5/10            (One of the bigger names in this obscure list, but among the best wheatbeers out there.)
Gutmann Dunkles Weisen - 8.5/10   (Bonafide classic. Among the best big-brew dark wheatbeers. So well balanced, deceptively drinkable.)
Nothelfer Bioweisse - 8/10               (A trad attempt at Bavarian wheatbeer that nails it. So fresh and worthy of high praise)
Kapuziner Kellermarzen  - 7/10        (Interesting attempt to blend kellerbier and wheatbeer. Tough balance to strike but it works)
Schroll Nankendorfer Weisse- 6/10  (Lost its head and went flat, flavour was ok)

Zoiglbiers

Stelzer Fattigau Zoigl - 8.5/10          (Great label. Vienna-style lager. Full flavour, caramel malt, well balanced bitter finish. Exemplary)
Kemnath Zoigl - 8.5/10                     (Pale, bitter balance is impressive, unfiltered, unpasteurised, pure freshness)
Hutten Zoigl - 8/10                           (A stand-out brown beer that shows so much skill. Bursting with flavour yet moreishly drinkable )
Wurth Zoigl Hell - 8/10                     (Really unusual. Earthy, leathery, fruity, faint smoke, then trad tangy, spicy aftertaste. Weird and good)
Rawetzter Zoigl - 8/10                     (Pale keller, amber, thick, bitter at the front then thick gentle floral aftertaste, great stuff)
Wurth Zoigl Dunkel - 7.5/10            (Weird one. Dunkel Zoigl. Malty yet thick and light. Unlike any beer I've had)   
Scherdel Zoigl - 7.5/10                    (Similar to a pale kellerbier but a little more spicy and thick. Nice but not a standout)
(Paul) Puttner Zoigl - 7.5/10            (Coppery kellerbier similar to the vollbiers above. Thick, sweet, hoppy and reddish brown
Monschof Zoigl - 7.5/10                   (The most commercial beer with 'Zoigl' on it. Still pretty good but a more typical kellerbier experience)

Marzen

Weiherer Keller-Marzen - 8/10       (Thicker than some ales, hoppy, unfiltered, vibrant, fresh, spicy, slightly herbal. Magnificent)
Monschof Historic Marzen - 8/10    (So light considering strength and sweetness, floaty, thick, fresh, pleasant hoppy landing and honeyed aftertaste)
Aufsesser Marzen - 7/10                (Slightly lower strength cloudy amber Marzen. Pleasant without standing out.)
Kemnath Marzen - 7/10                 (Strong, enjoyably amber sweet and yet very well hopped. Interesting effort)
Meinel Kellermarzen - 7/10            (Faintly off-the-rack recipe other than the end bitterness which slightly obstructs rather than complimenting the flavour)
Hutten Fichtelgold - 7/10               (Not my absolute favourite of theirs but still pretty good. Sweet yet also bright and hoppy)

Bock

Schubel Kellerbock - 9/10             (Frankly amazing. Apricot, amber, bready, spicy thick. Breaks the mould for the style.)
Aufsesser Bock Dunkel - 9/10       (Bloody good. Rush of rich fruit, spice, nut and chocolate before roasted dryness comes in)
Nankendorfer Bockbier - 8.5/10    (Chocolate fruit and nut bock flavours that are well balanced with dryness and tingly hops)
Ott Bockbier - 8/10                       (Unusual. Rich, amber, woody, chestnutty creation unlike traditional bocks. Pretty good)
Mainseidla Bock - 7.5/10              (Quite amber, not overly dark. Dry fruit and leatheryness is familiar for the style. Pleasant.)

Weird/Atypical Ones

Leikem Steinbier - 8.5/10                       (An absolute one off - thick, strong light yet...faintly charred and elemental. Has to be tried)
Spezial Rauchbier - 8.5/10                     (May as well put it out there. This is better than Schlenkerla Marzen.)
Veldensteiner Rotbier - 8.5/10               (A style some pretend never existed historically. Whatever it is, it's brilliant. Reddish, rich, sweet, still lagery)
Langbrau Super Ale - 8/10                     (Weird but good. Unfiltered with hints of belgian blonde and kellerbier. It's an ale! Wheat in here too.)
Nikl Michala - 8/10                                  (Highly unusual amber sweet kellerbier with some complexity like a Belgian quad but in a medium % lager. Balanced enough to work well)
Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff - 8/10                 (Deceptive bready Dortmunder style lager that just gets gradually better with every gulp)
Hubner Vollbier  - 7.5/10                        (Smoked malt provides a surprise background flavour to this pale lager, and it works)
Frauendorfer Rauchbier - 7.5/10            (Smoke is not at the forefront, but it still props up the lager nicely)
Krug Brau Urstoff - 7.0/10                      (One of the less remarkable beers of this selection, but still enjoyable pleasant pale lager)
Leikem Wintertraum - 6.5/10                 (Partly successful but slightly gloopy pale lager, not what I expected for a winter beer)
Langbrau Maibock - 6.5/10                    (Slight failure to launch, as the head disappeared leaving behind an appley-grassy  palebock)
Wagner Ungespundetes Lager - 6.5/10 (Malty, warm gold colour, soft in the mouth, more like an Export than a keller or zwickle. Pleasant but not a stand out at all)
Langbrau Festbier - 6/10                       (Another case of great label design, average brew with this brewery. Head vanished, gloopy, piney hops)
Glenk Walkentrunk - 5/10                      (Disastrous. Something was wrong with the bottle. The head evaporated on impact with the glass.)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 13, 2020, 02:24:05 PM
Them Wowcher beers are pretty good for like £1.10 each including delivery. The cider has that petrolly taste that Henry Westons has got. Also the image quite clearly shows two festive ales but they replaced them with some honey ale. It is impressive how C84 seem to have totally avoided getting mentioned anywhere, ever. Nicest sampled so far is the stout. Lager all tastes the same really but theirs is on the better end of this small spectrum.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 13, 2020, 02:30:32 PM
Based on my experiences above I would rate Schubel, Aufsesser, Weiherer and Hutten as brilliant breweries who managed a consistently high standard of different styles.

Others were more variable but still managed to achieve 1 or 2 standout beers.

There were some extremely unusual beers that were unique, both tasty and impossible to compare with anything:

Eg. Weiherer Zwickerla Dunkel, Wurth Zoigl Dunkel, Schubel Kellerbock, Leikem Steinbier, Langbrau Super Ale. None of them have a gimmick, there are no intros or branding that make them seem like the beer version of posh crisps. It's simply a brewer going to work in an atypical way and hoping the outcome is pleasant. This has yielded some really interesting results. Of course, with the focus resolutely not on Franconian brewing right now (give or take the odd beer you may see here and there) this homespun heritage seems to have got lost somewhere.

Overall standard was very good, probably 8/10 that were a cut above the high end of mainstream Bavarian beers, with the other two being generally decent and along those lines.


Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 13, 2020, 02:35:35 PM
Quote
Lager all tastes the same really but theirs is on the better end of this small spectrum.

The lager you've tried may do. The fact you think that is a sad indictment of what English people are served up, rather than what exists.

Any trip to Upper Bavaria or Bohemia would quickly dispel you of this opinion.

In lieu of that, take a look at the list on the previous page for starters. It certainly it isn't a small spectrum.

I can almost guarantee without even trying or looking that the lager C84 they produced isn't very good, but I expect you're probably correct that it is better than standard lager available in England.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 13, 2020, 02:57:40 PM
Best lager I've tried is Asahi Super Dry. Next to that can be Crystal or Diamond from Joseph Holts Brewery.

You might bemoan the poor choices of the English but when I've gone to Europe, half the countries only have one single beer on tap, which is always lager.  Maybe two lagers if you're lucky. And we fill it up to the top.

One thing I love about coming back home is that you can have an ale or a mild or a stout or a bitter.

I've been to Germany and to the Czech Republic quite a few times and I prefer the drinking options in the UK. I'm surprised that you highlighted Czech; if Gambrinus or Staropramen tastes remarkably different to Heineken or Carlsberg, it's lost on me. The price is right down there though.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 13, 2020, 03:48:22 PM
Best lager I've tried is Asahi Super Dry. Next to that can be Crystal or Diamond from Joseph Holts Brewery.

You might bemoan the poor choices of the English but when I've gone to Europe, half the countries only have one single beer on tap, which is always lager.  Maybe two lagers if you're lucky. And we fill it up to the top.

One thing I love about coming back home is that you can have an ale or a mild or a stout or a bitter.

I've been to Germany and to the Czech Republic quite a few times and I prefer the drinking options in the UK. I'm surprised that you highlighted Czech; if Gambrinus or Staropramen tastes remarkably different to Heineken or Carlsberg, it's lost on me. The price is right down there though.

I agree the UK offers more options of beer overall than most countries (though that is changing rapidly). It certainly doesn't offer many good lager options though. Finding good lager, even in a city like Leeds is an actual effort rather than something you take for granted, unlike ales where most of the time there will be at least one good ale available. And I wasn't challenging your own preferences or arguing whether lager is as interesting as ale. Those are altogether different discussions.

I'm addressing what you claim: that lager basically tastes the same/very similar and that there is a narrow spectrum when it comes to lager in quality and variety.

I'm suggesting the reason you believe that is based on your experiences rather than what is true.

For starters, when we are discussing lager I am already defaulting to assuming you mean the most readily available filtered pale lager from the biggest most mainstream breweries, an assumption on my part but one you have reinforced as correct in your reply.

You are surprised about what I say about Czech beer, so this should already be a hint. Gambrinus and Staropramen are the two worst examples you could pick to represent Czech brewing, just as Doom Bar and Tetleys would be to represent English brewing. While they are drunk in large quantities, that is also because they are the cheapest. They hold no great reputation in the country and are not representative of brewing culture in the nation. The other two big names, Pilsner Urquell and Budvar are distinctly different iterations of pale lager. To state Pilsner Urquell and Gambrinus taste at all similar would be denying your own senses. It would make no more sense to state they taste similar than saying two English pale ales, Abbeydale Moonshine and Thornbridge Jaipur taste similar.

The reason most readily available standard pale lagers taste so similar is that they use mass manufacturing techniques to shorten the start and end of the process, many brands are owned by the same drinks conglomerates* and because they are pitched towards similar audiences where these conglomerates have deliberately narrowed the scope of what people are exposed to. (*For example, Staropramen in the UK is now brewed under license in Burton on Trent thanks to their parent company.) What it leads to is people as yourself confidently asserting things about lager because you feel as though you have tried a lot of it. In actual fact you have been served up (most of the time) this deliberately narrow window of brands owned by the same small range of big breweries because these companies have bet that the majority of people will accept what they're given, versus if they had spent more money than time, took bigger risks and provided more costly high quality alternatives. It is completely in their commercial interests to convince people that lager must be this way.

However in Czechia you have family breweries and small breweries just like in England trying to get their wares onto the taps of multitap craft venues (which are all over Prague, Brno, Olomouc now) and independent untied pubs; brewpubs with house styles. These all brew real lagers. 10, 11, 12, 13 degrees, pale, semi-dark, amber, vienna, jantarova, tmavy, schwarzbier, kvasnicovy (those just off the top of my head), along with seasonal specials. Some are also delivered differently, for example Bernard's dark lager is sometimes on nitro keg which is luxuriously thick like stout.

This is also just the tip of the iceberg. If you want to drink a Unetice 12 then a Vilem 11 and tell me they taste similar, go ahead. Just like ales, lagers are distinguished by their choice of hops, but also what they do with the malts, how long the lagering is for, whether they use techniques like double decoction or not, along with lots of other stuff a brewer like Ferris would be better qualified to go into. These can be unfiltered, unpasteurised, or both, which has a pronounced effect on their texture and flavour, they can be pitched with yeast midway through which again dramatically alters the flavour.

Under German Lagers, we have sub styles: Helles, Pils, Dortmunder, Kolsch, Alt, Export, Kellerbier, Vollbier, Zoigl, Marzen, Bock, Maibock, Doppelbock, Rauchbier, Dunkel, Munich Dunkel, Schwarzbier, Gose, Zwickl, Landbier, Rotbier, Winter lager, Roggenbier.

Were we to take a trip to Forchheim or go around Nuremberg (where pretty much every single pub and bar serves lagers that don't fit into stereotypical helles or pils styles), you would be convinced of what I am telling you now. You would also find a preferred lager to Asahi (who in an ironic turn of events currently own Plzensky Prazdroj who make Pilsner Urquell) very, very quickly.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on December 13, 2020, 03:54:56 PM
Six months ago I would have said all lager was piss but Shouldsy boy you have opened my eyes. I probably drink more 'lager' these days than anything else but we're talking Keller, Dunkel, Rauch, Rot, Marzen, Bock, Hell, Zoigl, all that glorious gold.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 13, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
making me wanna buy a Czech lager sampling box now
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 13, 2020, 04:33:14 PM
making me wanna buy a Czech lager sampling box now

https://www.pivoonline.cz/p6gzw425

I recently got some great stuff in from Pivovar Cvikov.

House of Trembling Madness in York is doing a Czech box:
https://www.tremblingmadness.co.uk/?store-page=Czech-Republic-Beer-12-Pack-p268285236

However I'd probably only say 5 of those would stand out as much different. However they are stocking Vinohradsky Pivovar which is a great showpiece for modern 'real lager' brewing in Czechia:

https://www.tremblingmadness.co.uk/?store-page=search&keyword=vinohradsky

The 12 and 13 are very, very tasty.

Their German pack is also worth a look:

https://www.tremblingmadness.co.uk/?store-page=Madness-German-Beer-Pack-p265811396





Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on December 13, 2020, 04:50:36 PM
This weekend, I've really enjoyed:

(https://i.ibb.co/48Phrvw/20201213-161949.jpg)

This has a real smoked cheese to it, rather different to the bacon and bitter treacle of the Schlenkerla. On balance, the Schlenkerla Weizen is my favourite smoked beer, I just love that particular fluffy and smoky balance, but this is a lovely change.


(https://i.ibb.co/DRSnGPJ/20201212-162359.jpg)

Nothing spectacular here but I could happily enjoy an evening of this stuff. A fairly standard Keller but given that it's such a satisfying style, crisp and malty, that's no damning with faint praise.


(https://i.ibb.co/Y84QPqH/20201211-172003.jpg)

Something festive, albeit the label is doing most of the heavy lifting there! It's a slightly sweet dark lager, a little spicy and nutty, bitter touch on the finish. It's nothing especially bold but lovely balance and very drinkable with a big slab of stollen, or even a Domino's New Yorker which is what I had it with.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 13, 2020, 04:57:27 PM
That last one looks right up my street. I was surprised to find all the winter ones I got in were pale.

Spezial Rauchbier is my favourite smoke beer (unless the Schlenkerla marzen is on tap in Bamberg) but it is about personal preference.

Were these all Hier-Gibts-Bier.de purchases? If you have different stockist hit me up.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on December 13, 2020, 05:29:30 PM
Ok, so I've finally finished what will probably be the last Hier-Gibts-Bier.de shipment for me. With Brexit due to fuck international shipping to the UK up logistically and commercially, it will certainly put off companies offering UK shipping and in turn their costs will put off buyers. Wait and see, but I'm not expecting good things. Not to mention the dive in £ sterling in January.

However, if anyone wants to get some amazing Franconian beers in from smaller breweries, there's enough time to place your order in the next few days and receive it well before Christmas.

My last shipment had some bocks, marzens and winter beers in, while trying to pick up one or two others I hadn't got around to trying. Anyway, here is the final verdict:

Pale Kellerbier/Zwickl biers

Mahrs aU - 9.5/10                        (Did I mention how this beer is close to being the best? Wonderous unfiltered lager)
Schubel Nordeck Trunk - 9/10      (Spicy with a citrusy hop)
Aufsesser Zwickl - 9/10                (Thick, unfiltered, tangy, farmhousey and light as air)
Ur Frauendorfer Naturturb-8.5/10 (Similar to Mahrs aU. Unfiltered, golden, aley toffee notes faintly in there, knock back drinkable)
Hutten Zwickl - 8/10                     (Lighter than their Zoigl but still comparatively hefty)
Huppendorfer Zwickel - 8/10        (On the yeasty, spicey, grainy side. Very mild hops but fresh and indulgently wonderful)
Goller Kellerbier - 8/10                  (An archetype of the style - cloudy, spicy, subtle hops and mildly agricultural notes)
St Georgen Kellerbier - 8/10         (I preferred this in bottles to the slightly too mellow tap serving. Brings out the finish a bit more)
Adler Stopflder Zwickl - 7.5/10      (Knocks most session IPA out of the park for complexity, texture and drinkability. An eye opener)
Nikl Lagerbier Zwickl - 7.5/10        (Pale, super-refreshing with a slight crispness and citric element)
Nothaft Zwickl - 7.5/10                  (Less bitter, highly drinkable, best keller-fresh to eke out every inch of flavour)
Mainseidla Keller - 7.5/10              (Pale and quite clear, minerality and green bitterness competing with gorgeous unfiltered tang)
Reh Zwickl - 7/10                           (Similar to Nikl and Schubel, bitter. Enjoyable but less of a standout example)
Bamberger Keller - 7/10                (A tad sweet, a more trad 'expected' kellerbier with less of the homespun charm of the above)

Coppery Vollbier (inc. Kellerbiers/Landbiers)

Schubel 'a Frankisch' - 9/10              (One bottle was a dud, but the fresh one was pretty much the Ur-example of this style. Coppery, harmonious, gorgeous)
Simon Spezial - 8.5/10                      (Amber, Marzen-esque lager which starts nice then seems to get even nicer)
Honicka Heiner's Original - 8/10        (Floral bitterness with frothy soft but full textured ambery lager, a surprise find)
Fassla Zwergla - 8/10                       (Strong yet well-hopped brown landbier. Dry malty nutty backtaste. More Landbier than Munich Dunkel)
Adler Altfrankisches Lager - 8/10      (Chestnut colour, full body, punchy bright hops, slightly floral, a strong, typical example of the region)
Reckendorfer Kellerbier - 7.5/0         (Brownish, easy drinking coppery malty lager)
Hetzelsdorfer Vollbier - 7.5/10          (Subtly creeps up on you. Not overly complex but stop searching and focus on the drinkability)
Meister Vollbier - 7.5/10                    (Soft in the mouth but bitter tingly hops and roast malt competing in aftertaste)
Buchenbacher Beck'n'bier - 7/10      (Low % for the style, but this is liquid pretzel. Roast malt, bready, tingly hops, good balance)
Schubel Drachenseidla - 7/10          (Despite the fancy name, a routine decent brown keller, tasty, fairly bitter)
Frauendorfer Landbier - 7/10           (A lynchpin of the style rather than an outstanding copper-brown kellerbier)
Hallerndorfer Kellerbier - 7/10          (More coppery coloured than you'd expect. Again roast malt, sweetness, tingly finish)
Stockl Ahorntaler Landbier - 7/10     (Brown, malty yet still refreshing. Not overly sweet. Lager mirror image of an English bitter. Maybe missing the balance and complexity of some others.)

Dunkels/Brown kellerbier

Weiherer Zwickerla Dunkel - 9.5/10    (Almost overwhelmingly delicious. Reddish, full, thick, swirling, intoxicating and light as air)
Weissenohe Kloster Sud - 9/10          (Brown Vienna lager with much more complexity and indulgence that you'd expect)
Puttner Basalter Dunkel - 8.5/10        (Exemplary. Black, thick, rich, decently hopped and perfectly balanced. Very nice)
Honicka Wonnesud - 8.5/10               (Every delicious drop of this smooth, rich, joyful Munich Dunkel is worth savouring.)
Weiherer Urstoffla - 8.5/10                (Munich Dunkel. Bready, malty, ever so slightly odd brown rather than dark beer. Standout)
Wagner Dunkel - 8.5/10                    (A touch lighter shade. Stronger and more complex than some, rich and rewarding)
Langbrau Burggraf Dunkel - 8/10      (Munich Dunkel, on the roasty end of things. Dry in the mouth but smooth finish and thick)
Bauernbier Dunkel - 8/10                   (Forgot my notes but this one was a terrific Munich dunkel)
Aufsesser Dunkel - 8/10                    (Only a shade darker than the brilliant Zwickel and nearly as good. Just a tone darker)
Ott Obaladara - 8/10                         (Smooth, sweet with a building bitterness. Indulgent)
Manns Brau - 8/10                             (Dark brown rather than black, big and malty, with hops trying to give chase, like Schwarzbier)
Bamberger Schwarzla - 8/10             (A straight up Schwarzbier, hoppy, black as night, roasty but slight coconut/oystery element)
Sonne Zunft Trunk - 7.5/10               (Unusual one. Brown keller, hoppy and malty at first but really mellows out, though light considering the strength)
Staffelberg Wienerla - 7.5/10            (Vienna lager, strongish, thick texture but backed up with distinct floral bitterness and drying finish)
Stelzer Ritter Trunk - 7.5/10               (Tough to miss out on an 8. This is real cro-magnon beer, roast malt, hearty, gothic)
Meinel Dunkel - 7.5/10                       (Low % dunkel. Successful idea. Toned down but highly drinkable)
Lindenharter Landbier - 7.5/10          (Make peace with the dark brown colour, and it is rich, toasty and full flavoured )
Bamberger Braunbier - 7.5/10           (Delicious Dunk/Keller hybrid. Malty but lively hops. The better end of both worlds)
Leupser Dunkel - 7/10                       (Dry wholemealy dunkel that has a very distinct character. Well brewed.
Gunther Bernstein - 5/10                   (The malt doesn't sit quite right, unfortunately. Not in the same league)

Weissbier

Weiherer Weizenbock - 9.5/10         (An near out of this world light brown weizenbock. Rich, intoxicating and unparalleled)
Kuchlbauer Turmweisse - 9/10         (A genuine competitor for Schneider Original and Sternweisse for light brown wheatbeer flavour)
Kapuziner Weissbier- 8.5/10            (One of the bigger names in this obscure list, but among the best wheatbeers out there.)
Gutmann Dunkles Weisen - 8.5/10   (Bonafide classic. Among the best big-brew dark wheatbeers. So well balanced, deceptively drinkable.)
Nothelfer Bioweisse - 8/10               (A trad attempt at Bavarian wheatbeer that nails it. So fresh and worthy of high praise)
Kapuziner Kellermarzen  - 7/10        (Interesting attempt to blend kellerbier and wheatbeer. Tough balance to strike but it works)
Schroll Nankendorfer Weisse- 6/10  (Lost its head and went flat, flavour was ok)

Zoiglbiers

Stelzer Fattigau Zoigl - 8.5/10          (Great label. Vienna-style lager. Full flavour, caramel malt, well balanced bitter finish. Exemplary)
Kemnath Zoigl - 8.5/10                     (Pale, bitter balance is impressive, unfiltered, unpasteurised, pure freshness)
Hutten Zoigl - 8/10                           (A stand-out brown beer that shows so much skill. Bursting with flavour yet moreishly drinkable )
Wurth Zoigl Hell - 8/10                     (Really unusual. Earthy, leathery, fruity, faint smoke, then trad tangy, spicy aftertaste. Weird and good)
Rawetzter Zoigl - 8/10                     (Pale keller, amber, thick, bitter at the front then thick gentle floral aftertaste, great stuff)
Wurth Zoigl Dunkel - 7.5/10            (Weird one. Dunkel Zoigl. Malty yet thick and light. Unlike any beer I've had)   
Scherdel Zoigl - 7.5/10                    (Similar to a pale kellerbier but a little more spicy and thick. Nice but not a standout)
(Paul) Puttner Zoigl - 7.5/10            (Coppery kellerbier similar to the vollbiers above. Thick, sweet, hoppy and reddish brown
Monschof Zoigl - 7.5/10                   (The most commercial beer with 'Zoigl' on it. Still pretty good but a more typical kellerbier experience)

Marzen

Weiherer Keller-Marzen - 8/10       (Thicker than some ales, hoppy, unfiltered, vibrant, fresh, spicy, slightly herbal. Magnificent)
Monschof Historic Marzen - 8/10    (So light considering strength and sweetness, floaty, thick, fresh, pleasant hoppy landing and honeyed aftertaste)
Aufsesser Marzen - 7/10                (Slightly lower strength cloudy amber Marzen. Pleasant without standing out.)
Kemnath Marzen - 7/10                 (Strong, enjoyably amber sweet and yet very well hopped. Interesting effort)
Meinel Kellermarzen - 7/10            (Faintly off-the-rack recipe other than the end bitterness which slightly obstructs rather than complimenting the flavour)
Hutten Fichtelgold - 7/10               (Not my absolute favourite of theirs but still pretty good. Sweet yet also bright and hoppy)

Bock

Schubel Kellerbock - 9/10             (Frankly amazing. Apricot, amber, bready, spicy thick. Breaks the mould for the style.)
Aufsesser Bock Dunkel - 9/10       (Bloody good. Rush of rich fruit, spice, nut and chocolate before roasted dryness comes in)
Nankendorfer Bockbier - 8.5/10    (Chocolate fruit and nut bock flavours that are well balanced with dryness and tingly hops)
Ott Bockbier - 8/10                       (Unusual. Rich, amber, woody, chestnutty creation unlike traditional bocks. Pretty good)
Mainseidla Bock - 7.5/10              (Quite amber, not overly dark. Dry fruit and leatheryness is familiar for the style. Pleasant.)

Weird/Atypical Ones

Leikem Steinbier - 8.5/10                       (An absolute one off - thick, strong light yet...faintly charred and elemental. Has to be tried)
Spezial Rauchbier - 8.5/10                     (May as well put it out there. This is better than Schlenkerla Marzen.)
Veldensteiner Rotbier - 8.5/10               (A style some pretend never existed historically. Whatever it is, it's brilliant. Reddish, rich, sweet, still lagery)
Langbrau Super Ale - 8/10                     (Weird but good. Unfiltered with hints of belgian blonde and kellerbier. It's an ale! Wheat in here too.)
Nikl Michala - 8/10                                  (Highly unusual amber sweet kellerbier with some complexity like a Belgian quad but in a medium % lager. Balanced enough to work well)
Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff - 8/10                 (Deceptive bready Dortmunder style lager that just gets gradually better with every gulp)
Hubner Vollbier  - 7.5/10                        (Smoked malt provides a surprise background flavour to this pale lager, and it works)
Frauendorfer Rauchbier - 7.5/10            (Smoke is not at the forefront, but it still props up the lager nicely)
Krug Brau Urstoff - 7.0/10                      (One of the less remarkable beers of this selection, but still enjoyable pleasant pale lager)
Leikem Wintertraum - 6.5/10                 (Partly successful but slightly gloopy pale lager, not what I expected for a winter beer)
Langbrau Maibock - 6.5/10                    (Slight failure to launch, as the head disappeared leaving behind an appley-grassy  palebock)
Wagner Ungespundetes Lager - 6.5/10 (Malty, warm gold colour, soft in the mouth, more like an Export than a keller or zwickle. Pleasant but not a stand out at all)
Langbrau Festbier - 6/10                       (Another case of great label design, average brew with this brewery. Head vanished, gloopy, piney hops)
Glenk Walkentrunk - 5/10                      (Disastrous. Something was wrong with the bottle. The head evaporated on impact with the glass.)

Good point about Brexit - this has given me the kick up the arse to finally place an order with these. Will be loading up on all those bocks and a few of the others with high marks - I don't believe I've had any of them so it'll be a nice winter treat. Many thanks for going to the effort of writing these reviews.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 13, 2020, 08:38:52 PM
C84 Brewery officially doxed. It's actually this company, The Great Yorkshire Brewery (http://www.newinncropton.co.uk/the-brewery/), who have their own wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Yorkshire_Brewery).

Proof = both companies have the same postcode and phone number
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 13, 2020, 10:35:22 PM
C84 Brewery officially doxed. It's actually this company, The Great Yorkshire Brewery (http://www.newinncropton.co.uk/the-brewery/), who have their own wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Yorkshire_Brewery).

Proof = both companies have the same postcode and phone number

Yes, the labels looked very similar and the products seem to be the same but relabelled. So is C84 just their more modern face for the craft market, it seems.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on December 13, 2020, 11:23:41 PM
Yes their Facebook page explains that they have reformed as C84 and their original core beers will be 'heritage' beers in their new range. Can't really blame them I guess as the kids don't want musty old CAMRA fare and the oldies are graving at pace
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 13, 2020, 11:34:37 PM
Their 'Yorkshire Lager' is a typical example of the absolute wank trotted out in England (see also Korev, Leodis, loads more that are so non-descript I have erased them from my mind) marketed as premium that is hiding in plain sight simply because of the atrociously low standards of lager generally available.

At least some English craft brewers have tried to up their game a bit, with mixed results. Lost + Grounded Keller Pils, Purity Lawless, Baybrooke Keller Lager have upped the ante, still not quite there though.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 14, 2020, 08:47:16 PM
Just ordered some beers from Pivovar Monopol in Teplice* (northern Czechia):

https://www.pivovarmonopol.cz

Their online ordering system isn't set up for UK payments but I got a reply from the contact form and they're sorting out through transferwise. Just like Pivovar Cvikov they arrive in 1.5l PET bottles freshly tapped from the tanks, cost-wise it works out about £2.10 per half litre even with shipping which is very, very good value.

*saw these guys getting hammered by Slavia Prague back in November 2019.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: finnquark on December 15, 2020, 07:07:55 PM
Just tried to place an order through Hier Gibts, but they don't seem to offer the UK as a shipping destination anymore? My error or Brexit-related beerlessness?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 15, 2020, 07:15:00 PM
Fuck. I'll have a look.

Edit - yep, just logged into my account, they no longer offer UK shipping.

Thanks Nigel, thanks Boris. It's over.

If you need the most reasonable UK alternatives for interesting German beers please try House of Trembling Madness or Beers of Europe.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: finnquark on December 15, 2020, 07:18:18 PM
Ah that's annoying, as I had an order ready to go the other night but delayed to re-read a few pages of this thread! Oh well.

Where is the next-best for German booze?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on December 15, 2020, 08:46:09 PM
Belgium In A Box not shipping to the UK either. I was terrified this day would come.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on December 15, 2020, 08:52:15 PM
The best thread in the history of the board is DEAD
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 15, 2020, 08:53:43 PM
Belgium In A Box not shipping to the UK either. I was terrified this day would come.

Fuck them anyway though, their service had become abysmal.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on December 15, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
I'd only used them once tbf
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on December 15, 2020, 08:57:45 PM
Beerwulf has fuck all Belgian shit. Where now
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 15, 2020, 09:05:05 PM
Beerwulf has fuck all Belgian shit. Where now

My partner placed an order with Speciaalbierpakket.nl only a couple of days ago, great range, decent prices (a bit cheaper than beerwulf etc) always been quick and reliable.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on December 15, 2020, 09:05:26 PM
Lovely ta
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on December 18, 2020, 07:33:43 AM
Hier Gibts cancelled my order :(

Unfortunately, the Brexit is already causing us major problems and we have had to temporarily stop shipping to the UK and Ireland. We are working on a solution to be able to ship to the UK again as soon as possible.

 

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 18, 2020, 08:48:17 AM
That sucks. I guess it is promising to read they will still be thinking of us once the new... Whatever it will be...applies post-Brexit.

In better news (not for you, obviously), the beers from Pivovar Olesna arrived, so looking forward to getting stuck into them at the weekend.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 18, 2020, 03:58:06 PM
Looks like Brexit fucked my shipment from Pivovar Monopol
They can't find a company willing to deal with the shipment. Ffs.

The annoying thing is they made me use transferwise so got the money 2 days slower than if they had used PayPal. Probably would have got it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on December 18, 2020, 04:26:39 PM
Gonna have to start smuggling beer through the Eurostar.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Rich Uncle Skeleton on December 18, 2020, 05:00:53 PM
Off the drink for a month or so. Still wake up with massive headaches anyway so it's not like I'm really benefiting but I did have a non alcoholic milk stout the other day and it was surprisingly alright.

Got an imperial stout waiting for Christmas though and of course this starts a new fucking page
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 18, 2020, 06:27:30 PM
Don’t worry, I’ll write up an esoteric review of a mediocre Nova Scotian brown ale in a sec then we’ll really be cooking.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 18, 2020, 07:33:38 PM
think I'm gonna knock it on the head after new years, and then I can book in an appointment with a GP and say "see, my liver hormones and cholesterol are normal, it's your fuckin testing machines what are alcoholics"
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on December 19, 2020, 02:27:25 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/doctorale.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Schlenkerla-Doppelbock-from-Brauerei-Heller-beer-1.jpg)

I managed to get hold of not only a couple of the Schlenkerla Urbock but also a couple of these Doppelbocks. I'm gonna have them with the Everton game and report back. Really love the rauch at the moment, very Christmassy and carcinogenic.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 19, 2020, 04:21:50 PM
That one is intense. Personally i couldn't have it without food. Rye bread, mustard, onions, black pudding or charred sausages.

The fact it comes in a 500ml bottle is.. basically.. Funny.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on December 19, 2020, 04:32:08 PM
Crikey. That sounds robust. I've got a great shard of parmesan out of some hamper so maybe I'll dip that in a jar of wholegrain mustard. Sounds like a bruiser. Gonna watch Jackie Chan's Meals On Wheels and get stuck in. Go 'ead, Jackie, lad!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 19, 2020, 05:24:27 PM
It's a cannonball. Big time smoke bomb.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on December 19, 2020, 08:33:09 PM
Having tried it, I definitely agree that it's heavy on the smoke but it seems more balanced than the Marzen despite that. There's much more depth of flavour to it with the dark dried fruits and herbs and so the smoke seems more nuanced and melds nicely. It's kind of like how the Ardbeg Uigeadail is a peat beast but it's also salty and packed with sherry giving you much more at any one moment, compared to the Ardbeg 10 which is probably less peaty but with fewer notes overall, so the smoke is more dominant. I still like the Weizen best but this is a close second.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 21, 2020, 07:41:09 PM
Good news is my beers from Pivovar Olesna have arrived. A shipment containing 4 of their range.

(https://untappd.akamaized.net/site/beer_logos_hd/beer-2273396_c35c7_hd.jpeg)
(https://pivni.info/foto/galery1405/pih-olesna-malkovsky-lezak-s.jpg)

Starting with:

Malkovský ležák 12° (4.8%) - Pale Lager/Svetly Lezak
Pivovar Olesna (https://pivovarolesna.cz/), Olesna

If you're out anywhere in Czechia which serves unusual brands and unsure what to get, ordering a 'dvanactka' or '12' gets you a premium lager. Not Stella, San Miguel, Kronenbourg, but a beer made with real love and care by enthusiasts. If you're concerned, 12 signifies not % abv (although confusingly you do sometimes see it displayed with a %) but degrees on the plato scale.

From what I gather, Pivovar Olesna are a craft scene inspired brewery with a range of ales (1 of which I did actually select, so hold tight), but it's normal out there that any experimental styles will be complimented with at least 1 Svetly Lezak, what is basically the benchmark of brewing and in general a lynchpin when it comes to reputation both domestic and abroad. British brewers can get away with 100% American styles nowadays, indeed it would barely pass a mention, but the Czechs definitely can't (though I did read today about a purely Belgian/Dutch-style brewery Svihov opening up in Prague).

I expected this one might have a hint of 'craftyness' and I wasn't wrong when the aroma of fresh citric hops hit me from the glass, or the initial bracing bitterness. For me I think it goes just too far over the edge for a lager, more so than those hoppy citric Zwickl biers phes bought, but, to be fair, as I went along I found the other elements that compliment this style - unfiltered tang and spicey quality along with a thicker consistent texture - helped shape it into something that was pretty drinkable and I found myself more disposed to it at the end than at the beginning, which is certainly the right way around. It's not as though it was bad, the Cvikov Klic 12 from the previous pages was just that good it could never compare.

Your Rating: *** and a half



Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Norton Canes on December 22, 2020, 11:06:07 PM
Halfway though my Hier-Gibts-Bier.de consignment now, sorry would have been posting tasting notes but I genuinely don't have that ability to translate subtle tastes into abstract description. I will say though that I've just drunk the Scherdel Zoigl (Shoulders: 7.5/10 'Similar to a pale kellerbier but a little more spicy and thick. Nice but not a standout') and it had a fantastic warming butteriness with a gentle hint of... ash. Yeah, sorry. Told you I couldn't do tasting notes.

Anyway, one thing I did mean to post was this picture:

(https://i.imgur.com/UB641XM.jpg)

Just for the labels, I love them. They look so historic. You can tell instantly it's heritage beer (sorry, I hate the word 'heritage' when it's applied to shallow crap in this country, but in the case of traditional German beers it seems eminently appropriate) because from a design perspective, these labels are awful. If this was craft beer the breweries would have had agencies on them in seconds, turning the labels into nightmarish hipster creations. But the labels don't matter, because the quality of the product is so good.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on December 22, 2020, 11:45:11 PM
Edit: sorry, too quick out of the blocks. Seen subsequent posts


Fuck. I'll have a look.

Edit - yep, just logged into my account, they no longer offer UK shipping.

Thanks Nigel, thanks Boris. It's over.

If you need the most reasonable UK alternatives for interesting German beers please try House of Trembling Madness or Beers of Europe.

Any word on this? Are you sure it wasn't COVID related?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 23, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
Mahrs aU and Scherdel Zoigl have pretty decent labels in my opinion, striking a balance of old and new elements.

Also retro labelling is really starting to catch on. Ome of many examples I can give, Pilsner Urquell do a 4 x 500ml pack with historic can designs on.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on December 24, 2020, 08:26:54 AM
Well well well, I ordered some a few of each Vinohradsky Pivovar joint from Trembling Madness at about 3pm yesterday, not expecting to have them in time for Christmas at all, and they just arrived. Some service. I'm in Cornwall and they're in York so it's not like I'm just down the road either. Thanks Shoulders for the tips, and the thread, cheers and merry Christmas
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 24, 2020, 09:59:38 AM
Yowzers that's incredible service.

I really rate the 12 and the 13 Jantarova, genuinely lovely lagers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 26, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
I received a 'Gulden Draak Brewmasters Edition' and enjoyed that last night. 10.5%, faint whiskey notes, boozy, amber. Good suppin'. Only subtly different from the normal Gulden Draak though.

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on December 30, 2020, 12:34:45 AM
Picked up a 75cl bottle of Lambiek Fabriek's Oude Kriek Jart-elle. It is £17 a bottle at 6% but I am impressed. It's cherry but in dry and subtle and not a big fruity hit. Could probably do with a bit more of an aroma but it's no worse than the Cantillion to me so given their 70cls are now pushing £25 a bottle a decent alternative.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 30, 2020, 12:34:23 PM
Can't compete with that but I tried Duchess de Bourgogne Cherry for the first time and they've really nailed it.

It's still got the normal Duchess depth of flavour, oaky, balsamic sour brown ale, and the kind of luscious richness Kasteel Rouge has.

The most all out balls to the wall fruity cherry beer I've had was De Ranke Kriek. Can recommend that.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 30, 2020, 12:36:50 PM
Garrison Brewery has started emptying their vaults for reasons unexplained. Had a stout from 2015 which was very toasty. Still had that sharpness that I like in a stout (rather than the malty chewy thing which is a bit old hat I reckon).

Very nice it was too.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on December 30, 2020, 02:46:33 PM
massive reduction in alcohol intake incoming. Two or three pints a day, and then maybe five once a week, is like 50 units a week, which is waaayayy into dangerous drinking territory. I used to want to be a functional alcoholic like Christopher Hitchens but now I want to beat my dad and die at an older age than 64. I can tick off 'functional alcoholic' on the lifegoal list.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on December 30, 2020, 10:10:48 PM
Can't compete with that but I tried Duchess de Bourgogne Cherry for the first time and they've really nailed it.

It's still got the normal Duchess depth of flavour, oaky, balsamic sour brown ale, and the kind of luscious richness Kasteel Rouge has.

The most all out balls to the wall fruity cherry beer I've had was De Ranke Kriek. Can recommend that.

Nice. Will keep eye out. A whole load of new Helles have appeared up here in Toon in last few weeks so will grab some for tomorrow. I remember drinking through the De Ranke stuff in Le Coq in Brussels. Oh to return.... one day. :)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 30, 2020, 10:21:07 PM
I really like Le Coq, a kind of old-school version of Moeder Lambic down the road. Long narrow room, simple furnishings, oodles of beer.

On the subject of Brussels pubs, the historic A la mort subite and Brasserie Verschueren are in massive financial trouble due to Covid (most likely many others are but these are in dire trouble).

It does bring into focus how some pubs across Europe should be protected cultural landmarks. It reminds me of the Barcelona council bailing out Bar Marsella (200 year old literary absinth bohemian hangout). But mostly that won't happen. Tony Benn's words ring in my ears, the price of everything, the value of nothing.

I would go further than just bailouts, any preserved interiors and assets of community value should either be rent capped at a commercially viable level or compulsorily purchased if there's an obstructive freeholder. Someone's ownership of a building is not more important than what has gone on, what does go on, what will go on inside it.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Junket Pumper on December 30, 2020, 10:24:06 PM
I really like Le Coq

I bet you do you dirty bollocks
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Junket Pumper on December 30, 2020, 10:27:52 PM
Birra Moretti La Rossa is one of the tastiest beers I've ever had, but unavailable in the UK as far as I can tell. It was everywhere in Italy, including McDonald's so I might have to move there.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 30, 2020, 10:35:52 PM
Oh yes, Doppio Malto, beloved of the Italians.

In fairness if you like red ale there are far worse places to go than Italy. It's probably their biggest ongoing contribution, outside of some pathetic attempt to make 'Italian Pilsner' a thing.

All I'll say is if you like that one then there's a world of even greater pleasure out there
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Junket Pumper on December 30, 2020, 10:40:12 PM
Oh yes, Doppio Malto, beloved of the Italians.

In fairness if you like red ale there are far worse places to go than Italy. It's probably their biggest ongoing contribution, outside of some pathetic attempt to make 'Italian Pilsner' a thing.

All I'll say is if you like that one then there's a world of even greater pleasure out there

Weirdly enough, that's the only one of its kind I like. I tried loads more in Italy but they didn't click. Dark ale just looks and tastes like a hangover to me so I usually go for lighter looking stuff.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 30, 2020, 10:54:10 PM
Purpose of its existence is two-fold: 1) trying to tempt people who like pale lager and trust the brand Moretti into trying other styles 2) trying to get people who like craft beer and don't rate their lager (rightly so, it's shit) to try their craft spinoffs.

Obviously the underlying purpose is money but yeah yeah, that's the idea at least.

This seems to be a pretty clear modus operandi across Europe with mixed results.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 31, 2020, 03:10:44 PM
BrewDog owner now offering his bars as vaccination sites. Such a fucking crawling opportunistic cunt.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: hummingofevil on January 01, 2021, 03:14:30 AM
I bet you do you dirty bollocks

Ha ha. I know you joke but it is a total gem. I was drinking in the posh Moerder Lambic at Place Fontainas and got chatting with woman at bar who was clearly a beer nerd but skint as fuck. I was chatting in my terrible intermediate French with her and she told me she could understand me but my vowel sounds were shite. The deal was I bought her drinks and she would teach me the lingo for the night. A few triples in and we were repeating the a, o, u, au, ou, eus; I've not laughed so hard in my life!!!. She said we should move on to a "proper brown cafe" and took me right into middle of city to Le Coq. When we arrived she vanished into her friends (fine by me as all she asked me about was my fiancé) and left me to drink alone with the very fluent in English barman who used fuck as verb, noun and adjective. A brilliant evening. I love Belgium and Belgians.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Calistan on January 02, 2021, 09:05:38 PM
https://imageshack.com/i/poQB0Zkuj


My Trembling Madness order came (one mistake was them sending me a Guinness export stout instead of a half pint glass but the surprise Wham bar compensates a bit). Very much enjoyed the Winter Bock and the Hommel Bier.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on January 06, 2021, 09:49:35 AM
Happy to concur with Shoulders' report that the 13 from Vinohradsky Pinovar is very very very good indeed, enjoy :-)
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 06, 2021, 10:43:26 AM
Happy to concur with Shoulders' report that the 13 from Vinohradsky Pinovar is very very very good indeed, enjoy :-)

Ah, great. Lovely beer. Available on Trembling Madness website. The 12 standard is pretty darn good too.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 06, 2021, 10:43:52 PM
https://untp.beer/nWLG3

Partner has discovered there's a Gulden Draak Smoked
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 07, 2021, 06:04:56 PM
OK, so the beers from Pivovar Monopol are here. Unexpected, as they had been in a warehouse somewhere near Prague airport since December 22nd! As soon as UPS lifted the deliveries on Monday it's arrived surprisingly quickly around lunchtime today, which happened to be perfect timing.

I got 5 different beers from their range, so I'll start with the 10 degree light lager, aka Desitka Vycepni (Translates as 10° Tapped)

(https://www.pivovarmonopol.cz/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/desitka-1.png)
(https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/2019_11_01/8fbd20f5403f267ca990781cd5931f25_640x640.jpg)

Desítka 10° (4.4%) Svetly Lezak/Pale Lager
Pivovar Monopol (https://www.pivovarmonopol.cz/), Teplice

So first disclosure: like the beers from Pivovar Cvikov and Pivovar Olesna I got in towards the end of last year, this beer is tapped by the brewery directly from tanks into 1.5l PET bottles (the Tramp Cider kind), unpasteurised and unfiltered. From my experience this is the closest I have come to drinking tapped pour beer, partly on account of the nature of the draft.

On the bottle there is a hand-drawn drink-by date of mid-February. These beers are not intended for storage, they are lively and fresh and best drunk at your earliest convenience.

In Czechia, desitka, or 10° usually denotes light lager, so this is usually between 3.5-4% abv. This one however is 4.4%, identical to Pilsner Urquell which is classed as a 12°. This shows the variances in the system. For reference, most 4.5% lager in Czechia would be a jedenactka, or 11°, so this is really at the high end of what you would call a 10°, more so than any other I've encountered.

Anyway, these light lagers are intended as thirst-quenchers. It's only fairly recently that more attention has been shone on the art of making these lagers as tasty, full flavoured and interesting without losing their drinkability. Traditionally, drinkability has been achieved simply by making a beer milder and lighter, perhaps with a certain hoppy crispness at the end. However with flavour potentially comes moreishness and more of these small breweries are toying with that balance, just as they have been in Franconia.

This one has a typical unfiltered haze. A close look at the glass shows there is an extremely fine sediment suspended in the glass. The colour is quite golden and wheaty. Unlike the Olesna beers this one does not produce much of a head, sadly, even with some real encouragement. There's a yeasty yet floral aroma which smells fresh (smell is a more reliable indicator of a fresh beer the more you take the time over it) and remains throughout.

There is a medium hoppiness and dryness which spreads across your tongue and lingers pleasant. There isn't a big hop attack but it's certain persistent with a slow decay, almost like a Zwickl bier, actually (any Czechs will hate the comparison, of course). The bitterness brings on just a hint of citrus at the front of your mouth but this is all anchored by a certain creaminess of texture and spice. The texture isn't absolutely spot on but it's pretty effective.

It would be interesting giving anyone relatively uninitiated the two lagers, one Pilsner Urquell, the other this one. Both the same strength, the same style and exhibiting just how different two pale lagers can be (both in good ways).

In summary: Buttery, tangy, slightly citric, tingly, hoppy and very pleasant unfiltered pale lager. A few minor constructive points would take it on another notch.

Rating: ****





Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 07, 2021, 06:09:42 PM
Im having a 'Guinness Original Extra Stout' from a 500ml bottle. No idea if this is the same as cans or draft, but this is delicious. It goes straight on the 'very good beers available at the desomarket' list
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 07, 2021, 06:19:25 PM
Im having a 'Guinness Original Extra Stout' from a 500ml bottle. No idea if this is the same as cans or draft, but this is delicious. It goes straight on the 'very good beers available at the desomarket' list

Some interesting stuff on Untappd, it seems there is no one version of this (despite being called original)

For eg:

4.1% in Germany
4.2 or 4.3 (????) in Ireland and Europe
4.8% in Namibia or S.A
5% in "Continental Europe" (is Germany not on the continent?)
5% in US and Canada
6% in Australia and Japan.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 07, 2021, 06:25:36 PM
Yes, this is the 4.2. Not looked into it yet but I'm almost certain there are variants across the guinness range available on typical shelves and bars. The last pint of draft guinness I had was an ice cold watery nothing drink and this is very tasty, roasted, a touch of toffee and lingering bitterness. Very good.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 09, 2021, 02:26:10 PM
(https://pivnirecenze.cz/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/monopol-le%C5%BE%C3%A1k-1200x675.jpg)

Monopol Svetly Lezak (12° Svetly Lezak/Pale Lager) 5.2%
Pivovar Monopol (https://www.pivovarmonopol.cz/), Teplice, Czechia

The 12° or dvanactka is the closest you can get to the gold standard in Czechia for lager brewing. A 12° pale lager is the flagship of most traditional Czech breweries and the marker in which all their brewing, like it or not, will be measured.

The difference between this beer and the last is a good reason why I will continue banging the drum for good lager. Distinct variations both subtle and not. The recipe for this a classic: pilsner malt, zatec/saaz hops, double-decocted. As with the last it's unfiltered and unpasteurised with a drink by date of late February, but really needs drinking asap to get the best out of it.

Immediately flying off the top of the beer is a lovely aroma of hop cones, yeast and harvest-time barley. The colour is hazy golden, and there is some fine sediment in the glass. In the mouth, you are struck by the bitter chewy Zatec hoppiness as well as some buttery diacetyl which creates a wonderful balance of creaminess, harvesty golden loveliness and lip-smacking bitterness. It isn't subtle, but it is very well-balanced, with neither element dominating. As you go along the hops become sparkling, tingling and seemingly ever present for minutes between mouthfuls. Keeping it unfiltered helps bridge both worlds somehow, the texture and tang wrapping them together.

Given the 5.2% strength is a little on the strong side for a 12°, it isn't surprising it has partial elements of 13° Special in its texture and overall experience.

This is a lager, this is a motherfucking Czech lager. For those brought up on lager imported to or brewed in the UK this is liquid kindling, it will set your world alight.

Hard to compare to the Cvikov Klic 12° a few pages back which was going for something slightly sweeter and Germanic. This is a true, legitimate and successful attempt at an unfiltered Pilsner.

Rating: *****
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on January 09, 2021, 05:18:44 PM
Sounds magnificent. I'll have a look. Need to get my fill before I go back to Wuhan.

I'm on a Hacker-Pschorr Keller. Pretty standard stuff within this wonderful style, malty, a little caramel, herbal, but refreshing. It's a really good beer and perfect Saturday afternoon fayre while watching Lone Wolf and Cub: Baby Cart at the River Styx.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 09, 2021, 05:47:28 PM
Yeah it's proof that exploring any area has the inevitable effect of turning one into a snob because I'd have taken Hacker Pschorr Kellerbier over a lot even 2 years ago, but now it's 'only' a quite interesting mainstream effort at a nearly forgotten style and if you provided me with a selection of Franconian beer I would spurn theirs like so much egg-strewn dogshit.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on January 09, 2021, 06:00:25 PM
Haha, I don't disagree. I've toned its down a bit and enjoying the full range of the style. That said, just had a lovely Karmeliet Tripel and really enjoyed it as something quite different which over not had a in touch while. Extremely floral and honeyed, and more than a bit woofterish if that's OK to say.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 11, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Brewdog doing a free 440ml fourpack of lost for the postage (1.95)

https://brewdog.queue-it.net/?c=brewdog&e=brewdoglostlager2021&ver=v3-javascript-3.6.3&cver=16&man=Free%20Lost%20Lager%20Launch&t=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.brewdog.com%2Fuk%2Fcustomer%2Faccount%2Flogout%2F&kupver=cloudflare-1.2.0
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 11, 2021, 05:41:32 PM
Cheers, 15min queue wait. Lol, hardly Westvleteren. May as well do it though.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 11, 2021, 10:13:25 PM
Doesn't dispatch until late February by which time Brewdog will probably be the only beer you can buy trade your daughter for anyway
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 11, 2021, 10:14:19 PM
Doesn't dispatch until late February by which time Brewdog will probably be the only beer you can buy anyway

So it's really just a gathering of personal data. Great.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 11, 2021, 10:15:21 PM
Undoubtedly. They have two sets of mine.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Paul Calf on January 11, 2021, 10:41:04 PM
Yeah it's proof that exploring any area has the inevitable effect of turning one into a snob because I'd have taken Hacker Pschorr Kellerbier over a lot even 2 years ago, but now it's 'only' a quite interesting mainstream effort at a nearly forgotten style and if you provided me with a selection of Franconian beer I would spurn theirs like so much egg-strewn dogshit.

Yeah, you’re right. It’s quite tedious.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 11, 2021, 10:53:39 PM
Yeah, you’re right. It’s quite tedious.

No detection of someone playing to the gallery then...
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: thugler on January 12, 2021, 03:42:40 PM
So it's really just a gathering of personal data. Great.

How dare they have an ulterior motive for giving away free stuff eh

I will use a shit email address I use to fill with trash.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on January 12, 2021, 04:05:42 PM
more like queuedog, amirite
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 12, 2021, 05:09:14 PM
How dare they have an ulterior motive for giving away free stuff eh

I will use a shit email address I use to fill with trash.

It's a bit of a pisstake. Let's get half the population of Britain on our mailing list, take everyone's £1.95 upfront then don't send them any beer until the spring, and only then can they enjoy a very small amount of mediocre unsold lager we had bet would get drunk sooner.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 12, 2021, 05:19:32 PM
On the other hand I will get to enjoy sharing my cans of cheap ice cold slightly better than average English Scottish(?) lager with a friend and then carry on mostly ignoring their mostly inferior craft beers

I did enjoy their 'Jack Hammer' though. It had some bite at least compared to their other pongy swill
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on January 12, 2021, 08:06:25 PM
More like Brewdon't
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on January 12, 2021, 08:36:55 PM
Gave em my personal details and the site kept crashing whenever I tried to pay so it was pointless. Should've kept up with my boycott of Brewdog
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 12, 2021, 09:26:20 PM
Gave em my personal details and the site kept crashing whenever I tried to pay so it was pointless. Should've kept up with my boycott of Brewdog

At the end of February we will all get some grated cheese and tuna piled into money bags.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: MojoJojo on January 13, 2021, 11:37:25 AM
I did the brewdog thing. What was a bit shit was I figured I might as well chuck some more stuff on the order since I was paying delivery anyway but that doesn't work and it wanted me to pay another £9 delivery for the other beer they order.

I quite like they're Elvis Juice in summer. The only grapefruit flavoured beer I've had that isn't rank.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: JaDanketies on January 13, 2021, 11:46:33 AM
All that suing everyone who ever used the word 'punk' and 'beer' in the same sentence was enough to tick me off, but there were reports of BrewDog engaging marketers in long interview processes that involved developing campaigns, only to not hire them at the end of the day and then use the same marketing campaigns they'd got from exploiting the proles that were looking for jobs, and that was enough for me to decide to boycott them entirely.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 13, 2021, 12:36:59 PM
All that suing everyone who ever used the word 'punk' and 'beer' in the same sentence was enough to tick me off, but there were reports of BrewDog engaging marketers in long interview processes that involved developing campaigns, only to not hire them at the end of the day and then use the same marketing campaigns they'd got from exploiting the proles that were looking for jobs, and that was enough for me to decide to boycott them entirely.

Yeah they're a right set.

James Watt recently did a mea culpa, 10 things I regret, and while that's all well and good, as you go along you develop a picture of someone who isn't actually learning from his mistakes, but just expressing who he is.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/my-10-biggest-mistakes-brewdogs-ceo-james-watt

Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Paul Calf on January 13, 2021, 12:56:22 PM
No detection of someone playing to the gallery then...

Yeah, sorry. I was being a knob.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 13, 2021, 01:17:38 PM
Yeah, sorry. I was being a knob.

No worries mate
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on January 13, 2021, 01:34:38 PM
Just realized I have shares in brewdog when they were a one-shop IPA lot in Edinburgh. Must dig them out, they must be worth something now. I bought like a quids worth so maybe... a fiver?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Pseudopath on January 13, 2021, 03:49:18 PM
Just realized I have shares in brewdog when they were a one-shop IPA lot in Edinburgh. Must dig them out, they must be worth something now. I bought like a quids worth so maybe... a fiver?

They're not really worth anything until BrewDog go public (probably some time in mid-2021). Shareholders are basically in a discounted beer club until that happens, but I think the older shares are worth more than the newer issues.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on January 13, 2021, 04:24:32 PM
They're not really worth anything until BrewDog go public (probably some time in mid-2021). Shareholders are basically in a discounted beer club until that happens, but I think the older shares are worth more than the newer issues.

I blithely assumed they’d done an IPO.

So they’re not even “worth” a fiver until then. Bastards!
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: TrenterPercenter on January 14, 2021, 09:43:34 PM
Can will still buy beers from abroad then?

I.e. the heir gibts bier place?
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 14, 2021, 10:43:07 PM
Just noticed that The Kernal are currently unable to ship to Northern Ireland. On the subject of foreign beer, I've noticed a whopping reduction in the range of American beers sold by all UK shops, both large online stores and bottle shops. All of the stuff by Breweries like Odell, Port Brewing, Victory, Bear Republic, Great Divide etc have long been out of stock and show no sign of turning up again. The only stuff you can get is Evil Twin, Sierra Nevada and stuff like Dale's etc that's brewed in Berlin and is now shite. Any suggestions what might have caused this? Wondering whether the UK copying everything they've done has killed demand or has there been a change in export costs that's made it unviable. The only place I can see that has any unusual US beers is honest brew. It's a fraction of what used to be available and the prices are cray cray
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on January 14, 2021, 10:51:05 PM
I think it is domestic UK breweries copying styles increasingly well and killing off the demand for yankee beer.

I am (was?) always very impressed with the range of US beers whenever I go into a bottle shop in the UK, to the point where I couldn’t see how it was feasible to have all this stuff for the average punter - maybe it never was and the pendulum is swinging back? Or maybe that’s just a reaction to the crap import selection available here.

Ferris Sez: no idea mate making this up as I go along
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Chedney Honks on January 16, 2021, 09:44:16 PM
Schneider Weisse Festweisse and a couple of Mahrs aU plus a St. Georgenbrau Keller. Best of British.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: DJ Bob Hoskins on January 17, 2021, 03:40:09 PM
I blithely assumed they’d done an IPO.

I'm pretty sure I tried a bottle of it a few months back.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 20, 2021, 11:26:50 PM
https://www.tvl.be/nieuws/limburg-verliest-met-achel-zijn-enige-authentieke-trappistenbier-112013

Achel lose their Trappist status, for now at least, due to lack of monk.

Seems like Westmalle had a degree of influence over operations so without further background it's genuinely hard to know how or why this has come to pass. It is a virtuous circle, Achel's existence makes money for other Trappist breweries and vice versa.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on January 21, 2021, 06:10:27 PM
Look at that lucky fucking bastard just sitting there drinking beer and talking about it, in Belgium. And presumably being paid to do so.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: Cuellar on January 21, 2021, 06:12:47 PM
Just had a thought, I could be Achel's monk. They get their Trappist status back, I get to piss about in a robe(? what is it called the word has gone) and drink beer in Belgium. Literally no losers.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: billyandthecloneasaurus on January 21, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
what is good website for reviews n that?  i'm looking at untappd but all the highly rated stuff is like, £9 for a can.  outrageous.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on January 21, 2021, 07:59:02 PM
what is good website for reviews n that?  i'm looking at untappd but all the highly rated stuff is like, £9 for a can.  outrageous.

Untappd is a funny one, it seems to only really rate DIPAs and imperial stouts. Everything else seems to be 3.0 to 3.7 regardless of how good a given beer actually is.

Would be really interested in a decent review site also.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 21, 2021, 08:15:26 PM
Ratebeer and untapped have always been that way. It used to be west coast ipas and imp stouts and now it's neipas and imp stouts. seems that on untappd any new great quality (according to raters) neipa will be 4.25-4.75, whereas a decent west coast will struggle to hit 4. Years back when the craft community was smaller a friend who was well connected in that community claimed it was because raters and influencers liked pushing the higher abv drinks with higher hop bills etc as it meant more freebies and sales of the expensive stuff.

I do check these sites because they are a helpful way to spot examples of beers that are truly rubbish and a waste of money. But it's a good idea to have a frame of reference on untapped of what range to expect the style to return.

I requested a couple of beers from a US shipment recently to be swapped out because I mistakenly ordered  2 TNEIPAs. The chap kindly swapped them out but convinced me I should try a couple of DNEIPAs that were well rated on UT, and said he was certain I'd be blown away. Tipped the first down the sink after two mouthfulls. Just a foul style of beer to my taste. The white IPA I'm drinking now (Boom Boom IPA Bronx Brewery) is excellent imo but is rated 3.66. I like white IPAs, it's one of the better style hybrids. Tart, spicy, hoppy, bitter, it's ace if the balance is ok
 
 
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on January 21, 2021, 08:22:48 PM
I love NEIPAs and would happily drink them all day, though I definitely know they’re a bit divisive and would be really hesitant to recommend one to someone who didn’t like the style already.
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: phes on January 21, 2021, 08:30:37 PM
I had a lot in the last year as I lived just along the road from Deya. A lot of them up to about 5% are delicious. Especially the crisper ones. No obvious booze, beer like and refreshing. My problem is with the beers once they get to about 6.5%+. I've tried a lot and haven't tried one yet that didn't taste like foul rotten fruit slop. I can't understand the appeal, it's not refreshing and smashable (sorry can't think of a better word) and just gets progressively more foul with the body and booziness. I'd agree that west coast beers have an element of diminishing returns above a certain point, but east coast ones become undrinkable to my taste
Title: Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
Post by: billyandthecloneasaurus on January 21, 2021, 08:37:41 PM
also lads, i'm quite eager to expand my beer palette, are there any decent variety pack type things?  I found this one:

https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/the-discovery-case

but i'm quite cynical and assume that those kind of things are likely to be bait for tourist mugs like me...