What is indigenous white British culture?

[earl_sleek]

Hot dry noodles

[JesusAndYourBush]

Ooh I have one, playground wars about not very good z80-based microcomputers!

You're not wrong there!  Paul L hit me over the head really hard when I laughed at how much memory his computer had, the little shit!

[bgmnts]

perhaps watch this video and come back to the statement above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7UIOb2TgY

PS - also you might want to consider whether historical oppression is a useful term to use for current contemporary experiences of oppression in black people.

Before I dedicate an hour of my time to that, do you disagree that white people still benefit from the result of slavery and the black population still suffer from the systemic racism stemming from that, only a few generations ago?

[Video Game Fan 2000]

PS - also you might want to consider whether historical oppression is a useful term to use for current contemporary experiences of oppression in black people.

Cook'd and Bomb'd anti-historicist front coming together?

Before I dedicate an hour of my time to that, do you disagree that white people still benefit from the result of slavery and the black population still suffer from the systemic racism stemming from that, only a few generations ago?

Its worth questioning why specifically historical oppression is used for economic or social problems faced by black or minority groups whereas our language for people outside those groups tend to be a lot less abstract. There is absolutely a fetishisation happening here, and its not comining from activists on either side of the argument that Trenter is refering too. There is also the matter that in colonial abuses, it is really difficult to find an absolute dividing line between the most abject people on the side of the colonial power and the most abject people in the indigenous population, not least because the distinction between 'white' and 'not white' ceases to apply when you start to look really closely at the absolute lowest rank of society during periods of colonial expansion.

Whether we frame a problem in cultural terms or in material terms generally reflects what kind of effort is going to made solving it. How many decades of resolutely sticking to a cultural approach while things get worse is it going to take before the problem becomes self-evident enough for liberals to see the issue. Implicit in the framing of an abuse as historic is the assumption that its legacy is cultural rather than material, which should be problematic whether you're a leftist, liberal, social democrat or just not a racist and you notice the skin colour of people who work behind the counters in the service industry v those who work in finance or IT. Which is division in life expectations and quality that can't be explained genealogically or by looking at the cultural and social legacy of horrific events in the past, however edifying white liberals find doing that.

[Darles Chickens]

Cheering boorishly when someone drops and breaks a glass in a pub.

[chveik]

poo's post history

[Kankurette]

Ironically, one of the things I associate with the British (white or otherwise) is an exaggerated praise of everything exotic/foreign - food, fashion, lifestyle, religion,etc - and a pathological contempt for everything home grown. I guess the Brexit crowd is a reaction against this, but even so, there does seem to be a section of society desperate for something to be proud of about Britishness, but absolutely no idea what it might be.

And yet what could be more British than going for a kebab or a curry at stupid o'clock in the morning?

[Cold Meat Platter]

greggs sausage rolls
belming
puce racists
proprietary brand vodka
al fresco urination
drawing cocks on things
TV programs sneering at wankers
skiving
malingering
suspicion of enthusiasm
noncing

[Kankurette]

Actually, one aspect of British cuisine I do like: cakes and puddings. Sussex pond pudding, Manchester tart, Eccles cakes, fudge, Arctic rolls, bara brith...get in my mouth.

[finnquark]

Methodism.

[finnquark]

I recently had an absolutely astonishing conversation with a class about the Empire, under the guise of a lesson on the mid-Victorian boom. Got the theatrics about raw materials, railway engineering and British pluck out of the way, and spent time getting the young people to talk to each other about their heritage, first of all in small groups and then as a class. We drew a web of connections on the board, and used it as part of homework to investigate the relationship between where their families were from originally, and the Empire. I was so impressed by how easily and comfortably the students were able to share their views, in a really sensitive way. I think that they're far more equipped and willing to navigate these issues today than even my generation of sixth formers were - many of them really had a good grip of the flexibility of identities. It made me hopeful that these issues can be discussed more freely, and the culture war nonsense of the current regime will fail.

[TrenterPercenter]

Before I dedicate an hour of my time to that, do you disagree that white people still benefit from the result of slavery and the black population still suffer from the systemic racism stemming from that, only a few generations ago?

You should dedicate an hour of your time if you care about this topic because it is mainly the views of a black person that just happens to be a professor in black history and the son of a prominent black civil rights activist who was about at the times you are talking about (Aldophus Reed).

Re your question: the short answer is no; if we have to take your crude ill equipped statement that conforms all white and black people to an incredibly simple version of history (and we'll conveniently forget about mixed race individuals whilst we are there) in your head that you can then extrapolate into whichever way you want to then go with it i.e. #notallwhitepeople? #allwhitepeople? then no I of course don't disagree that white people have benefited from slavery; there are white people in America and in the UK whose fortunes are completely founded on slavery and slave industries (and some of these are current just hidden away in countries where it is borderline acceptable).  Do you feel some connection to them because of your whiteness? because I certainly don't; I think they should identified and brought to justice not given some nebulous cover (again) because of their skin colour.

A more adult conversation would be looking at the fact we can also obviously say that not all white people benefitted from slavery and lots of white people actively worked against it and see/saw it as an abomination. As we can also say lots of white people also built America and didn't benefit from it and there are collections of white people in the US and UK that would be much more effectively directed to the commonalities they share in that oppression than telling them they are something different because of the colour of their skin.  Societal racism is; what it always was; racism; carried out by racist idiots who believe that the pigmentation of someones skin denotes the person that lies beneath it.  It's obscene and disgusting.  The horrid history of slavery should be taught in every school on every syllabus and should not be forgotten as the stain on humanity that it was and importantly why it was (cheap labour and using men and women as beasts of burden; racism was just invented to underwrite it); this is an non-debatable area; but it isn't what people like Toure Reed are talking about.

[bgmnts]

But all white people do benefit from slavery today. Does white privilege not exist or something? Is it all a lie? Do black people just have to pull themselves by their own bootstraps?

[Video Game Fan 2000]

The idea that humanity only manifests as impermeable demographics is great if you think no one in particular should do anything in particular about all these bloody problems that we're having. 

[canadagoose]

Same as us Welsh borders peeps reminding people that we're not English I guess.

It's interesting, Scotland doesn't really have that problem, but English people from Berwick, Cornhill, Wooler, etc., often have to remind people they're not Scottish. Maybe it's due to being closer to big English cities?

To go back to the OP, I'm not sure there are things unique to "white" culture as it's the majority and therefore default in the UK. There are some things that are typical of all our nations, like tea with milk in it, fish and chips, Coronation Street, having tea / dinner at about 6pm, small talk about the weather, but they all seem kind of worn-out now that I mention them. They tend to have come from elsewhere but so did the English language. Ah well.

[TrenterPercenter]

But all white people do benefit from slavery today. Does white privilege not exist or something? Is it all a lie? Do black people just have to pull themselves by their own bootstraps?

I'm sorry I can't help you; you have to find this stuff out for yourself; start by watching the video and try and get your head around the fact that white people saying a load of stuff to make themselves feel better is pretty par the course for nothing ever happening.

[WhoMe]

Forty-something blokes with trilbies on at a festival, stiffly dancing to reggae with an 'ooh yeah this is great' face.

[TrenterPercenter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-S1q3qvgkk

Dads raving at weddings

[bgmnts]

I'm sorry I can't help you; you have to find this stuff out for yourself; start by watching the video and try and get your head around the fact that white people saying a load of stuff to make themselves feel better is pretty par the course for nothing ever happening.

This sounds like bollocks to be fair but carry on.

[TrenterPercenter]

Carry on what?  Watch the video you numpty; I'm not an expert of black history and the recent developments in race relations in the US but the person in video is so start there.

[Chedney Honks]

Puddle Lane

[idunnosomename]

cunts the lot of them

[Neville Chamberlain]

Marmite and Morrissey.

[bgmnts]

Carry on what?  Watch the video you numpty; I'm not an expert of black history and the recent developments in race relations in the US but the person in video is so start there.

You were clearly coming into this with a bias and being incredibly patronising so what's the point to be honest.

[idunnosomename]

Blood guts and beer

[Wonderful Butternut]

Indigenous White British culture is stealing land from other people.

[TrenterPercenter]

You were clearly coming into this with a bias and being incredibly patronising so what's the point to be honest.

Mate.  if you want to know my position watch the video it's not some propaganda piece it is a video by Jacobin ffs and some of the people behind the Bernie Sanders campaign. Stop posturing and talking rubbish about biases; this is of also par as you've got nothing to say and nowhere to really go so you'll start going on about some default in my character; yeah we know this is what people do that don't have any substance behind their thoughts or they just keep asking endless questions.  It's all distraction and boring.

Watch the vid; reassess your thoughts then you can say why you disagree with what Toure Reed is saying and why you, a white lad that has learnt a few catchphrases, know more than an actual professor in black history.  Nothing to do with me, you have the video and Toure Reed came to his own decisions and ideas himself.......and needless to say he provides much better arguments and insights than "sounds like bollocks mate, must be biased innit".

[Mister Six]

What's ngubu?

I wondered that, and came across this page, which explains the Norf FC meme that the linked pic is a part of:

Celtic Norf
On September 12th, the meme evolved into a new variant, depicting an ancient Celtic version of the Norf



It had the following caption

"GO ON NGUBU STAB HIM UP
LUV T'CIRCUS ME"

[Mister Six]

And just because it amused me a lot:

Lord of the Norf
On the 1st of August, another thematic version appeared, featuring a Lord of the Rings inspired Norf character with the caption:



"It began with the forging of the Great pastries. Three steak slice were given to the Souf, immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings. Seven to the Scouse, great footballers and craftsmen of the Mersey halls. And nine, nine bean melts were gifted to the race of Manc, who above all else desire Greggs. For within these rings was bound the strength and the will to destroy each other on the weeken footeh'. But they were all of them deceived, for another meal was made. Deep in the land of Lancashire, in the Fires of the peak district, the Dark Lord N'gubu forged a master sossij roll, and into this ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life.
One roll to rule them all



Dave: (speaking partly in Pissed)
(I amar prestar aen.)
The norf is changed.
(Han matho ne nen.)
I feel it in the pint.
(Han mathon ned cae.)
I feel it in the sosij.
(A han noston ned gwilith.)
I smell it in the pub.
Much that once was is lost, for none who are now out on bail remember it.

[AllisonSays]

Mate.  if you want to know my position watch the video it's not some propaganda piece it is a video by Jacobin ffs and some of the people behind the Bernie Sanders campaign. Stop posturing and talking rubbish about biases; this is of also par as you've got nothing to say and nowhere to really go so you'll start going on about some default in my character; yeah we know this is what people do that don't have any substance behind their thoughts or they just keep asking endless questions.  It's all distraction and boring.

Watch the vid; reassess your thoughts then you can say why you disagree with what Toure Reed is saying and why you, a white lad that has learnt a few catchphrases, know more than an actual professor in black history.  Nothing to do with me, you have the video and Toure Reed came to his own decisions and ideas himself.......and needless to say he provides much better arguments and insights than "sounds like bollocks mate, must be biased innit".

Better yet, read some Robin Kelly, some Sadidya Hartman, some Tina Campt and some Christina Sharpe, and consider that Reed's reductive Marxist position isn't the only one, and certainly not the most compelling one, to take on the legacies and afterlives of slavery.