Pub News: Crooked House Burnt

[shoulders]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-66442399

Seems to have landed on the desks of some decision makers.

Bearing in mind Sherringford's comments, of course, I do wonder if this has been done too sloppily and with too much complacency that it will now make the council look bad if they fail to act.

[Psybro]

More consequences for the progenitors of this fire than the one in the tower block that killed 72?  Is possible.

[shoulders]

Looks like Marstons sold The Crooked House to ATE Farms Ltd.

A property developer with multiple companies registered at the quarry & landfill next door to the pub...

[Mobbd]

Looks like Marstons sold The Crooked House to ATE Farms Ltd.

A property developer with multiple companies registered at the quarry & landfill next door to the pub...

That is reported by the Guardian, yeah. https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/you-will-be-missed-locals-seek-answers-about-destruction-of-crooked-house-pub

The Daily Mail seems to have more info, reporting that a married couple face questioning. I won't click a Mail link though so if anyone sees an alternate source please post here.

[Milo]

Believe I've found the new owner on twitter:

https://nitter.net/CarlyTaylorxxx/status/360131809092190209

That's the name of one of her former companies, The Definition of Beauty, assuming the ATE Farms is accurate. Not much to see on the twitter account as far as any sleuthing goes.

[idunnosomename]

More consequences for the progenitors of this fire than the one in the tower block that killed 72?  Is possible.

negligence rather than wanton damage but it's disgusting absolutely no one's been charged for that to this day.

and this 60K word hit piece against the residents campaigning for justice and in support of the crooked contractors who clad it. chuck this hack cunt in jail and all

[idunnosomename]

The Daily Mail seems to have more info, reporting that a married couple face questioning. I won't click a Mail link though so if anyone sees an alternate source please post here.

some unnamed source has given them info that it's primarily about gaining control of the access road to the landfill site. the daily mail can be very good at brute-forcing intel on individuals, better than any other paper. They will doxx the fuck out of you. in this case it's good, usually it isn't

[shoulders]

https://www.change.org/p/rebuild-the-crooked-house-pub

If you've got 10 seconds 👆

[shoulders]

https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1688808760578347008?t=Y3nyGjZaef9bXA2FusOuFA&s=19

Further from West Mids mayor.

That seems like a firm commitment to me.

[touchingcloth]

also should say the brick masonry is probably fine. Helps the building has the girders in it. Don't think any of the interiors were older than the 1960s. Cuntiest thing here is how Marston's sold it gleefully knowing it would never been a pub again

Why would this be a good thing for Marston's? Surely as a pub chain the best thing for their business is for their to be pubs and for the pubs to be theirs?

[Norton Canes]

https://www.change.org/p/rebuild-the-crooked-house-pub

If you've got 10 seconds 👆

A better commitment would be to let them build their office space, farm shop conference space and residential holiday lodges, but insist that every single building is wonky

(signed, btw)

[shoulders]

Why would this be a good thing for Marston's? Surely as a pub chain the best thing for their business is for their to be pubs and for the pubs to be theirs?

They want assets, not liabilities. With The Crooked House they were lumbered with a remote, expensive to maintain failing pub (partly failing due to their own set up to fail model that bleeds pubs dry, but that's another factor).

PubCos have become estate management companies and they see things as dryly as any accountant looks at a balance sheet. It's about trying to sell off liabilities by converting pubs to residential space.

[idunnosomename]

Why would this be a good thing for Marston's? Surely as a pub chain the best thing for their business is for their to be pubs and for the pubs to be theirs?

after COVID and rates rising the company is in debt and was advised to sell a portfolio of its non-core properties which went on the market in March

Spoiler alert

Admirals Table, Bridgwater
Albert Vaults, Holyhead
Bax Castle, Horsham
Bedford Arms, Derby
Bellflower, Preston
Blacksmiths, Wakefield
Blenheim, Derby
Blue Pig, Kidderminster
Bluebell, Telford
Bradford Arms, Oswestry
Bridge Inn, Richmond
Bull & Butcher, Nottingham
Bush Inn, Dudbey
Crates & Grapes, Mansfield
Crooked House, Dudley
Cross Keys, Colwyn Bay
Derwent Walk, Consett
Duke of Wellington, Wrexham
Evergreen Inn, Tenby
Firebug, Leicester
Floaters Mill, Fence Houses
Fountain Inn, Stourbridge
Garibaldi Inn, Stourbridge
Gate Inn, Matlock
George Hotel, Penrith
Griffin, Halifax
Hampden Arms, Wrexham
Harlequin, Kettering
Harry Watkins, Llanelli
Heart of England, Northampton
Jacksons Wharf, Hartlepool
Jubilee Inn, Leicester
King Charles, Ross-on-Wye
King William, Dudley
Malt Shovel, Matlock
Marquess of Exeter, Oakham
Mitre Oak, Stourport-on-Trent
Oak Inn, Coventry
Oxleathers, Stafford
Pelican, Sailsbury
Plough Inn, Newark
Randlay Farmhouse, Telford
Red Lion, Burton-on-Trent
Red Lion, Telford
Ring O'Bells, Mexborough
Rising Sun, Huddersfield
Rossmere, Cleveland
Rutland Arms, Nottingham
Saddlers Arms, Cardigan
Spills Meadow, Dudley
Spital Vaults, Chester
Strickland Arms, Penrith
Tafarn Pennionyn, Caernarfon
Tipsy Terrace, Cleethorpes
Top Monkey, Mold
Twthill Vaults, Caernarfon
Victoria Hotel, Dorchester
Wellington, Pretson,
Wheatsheaf, Mansfield
White Lion, Wigan
White Swan Inn, York

[close]

[shoulders]

Ah yes, the list of shame. Marstons are an absolute joke. They get away with a lot because of their importance in the Midlands pub scene and the Pedigree fanboys.

[idunnosomename]

Actually there was another factor in this. In the 61 sale it was marketed as tenancy at will, the guy who went in said he felt a bit like they were being used. He did have live music and that (including, on the night of what would be the fire, a duo called Gasoline & Matches) so he was obviously trying his best. He gave his notice after the burglary in July that caused a load of damage to the kitchen, bar and toilets he could never afford to cover and everything was cancelled.

Then there was this private sale for an initially undisclosed amount.

Realising now that the burglary was probably part of the plot to get the site. Not saying Marstons were in on but they should have probably have smelt something when they were selling it to Landfill Cunt. I mean besides the obvious.
There's a lot of money in waste disposal contracts, more than property (well, in Dudley, anyway)

The next step would have been getting permission to expand the landfill site but he won't get away with that now, I very much hope he has to lose a shitload of money building a replica. It was so astonishingly illegally carried out he may just have to

[shoulders]

I assume they took advice, unofficially or otherwise from someone at Marstons about how to get the job done too.

It is clear they did exactly what they were intending to do. What's more interesting is how they thought this wouldn't happen?

That pub was failing but it was still one of the best known in the country.

[touchingcloth]

They want assets, not liabilities. With The Crooked House they were lumbered with a remote, expensive to maintain failing pub (partly failing due to their own set up to fail model that bleeds pubs dry, but that's another factor).

PubCos have become estate management companies and they see things as dryly as any accountant looks at a balance sheet. It's about trying to sell off liabilities by converting pubs to residential space.

Ah, so they are selling their failing pubs.

To play devil's advocate, what would their alternative be? I'm no fan of landlords, but private companies aren't charities so was there some kind of simple route they should have taken to ensure the building remained operating as a pub? Government schemes or whatever to incentivise people selling pubs to do that?

[idunnosomename]

they should have applied to get it listed before they disposed of it at the very least. it would have easily got it. immediately stops any buyer fucking about with it.

but of course they didn't because it puts off cunt buyers who want to rip the shit out of it (or indeed, batter it down with an excavator)

[shoulders]

Wasn't it already listed Grade II since 1960?

[idunnosomename]

it's not listed. there's other buildings called the crooked house on the list but this has been overlooked. see, it's not on the geoloc map of buildings



between oak lane and himley wood.

even if it wasn't wonky, a mid 18th century farmhouse like this definitely worth listing. I think part of the reason it was cunted so quickly is because they knew the campaign to reopen it could result in getting it listed.

as its demolition was not authorised under the town and country planning act legally the building still exists and could be listed

also note this:

Crooked House demolition: Council statement
After the devastating fire and demolition at the former site of the Crooked House, South Staffordshire Council leader Cllr Roger Lees issued the following statement:

"Our officers carried out a site visit to the site yesterday (August 7th), prior to the demolition of the building.

"Officers agreed a programme of works with the landowner's representative to ensure the safety of the building and the wider site.

"The agreed course of action included the removal of three elements of the first-floor front elevation only. This was only to avoid the weak parts of the structure from falling.

"At no point did the council agree the demolition of the whole structure nor was this deemed necessary.

"This council finds the manner in which the situation was managed following the fire completely unacceptable and contrary to instructions provided by our officers.

"As such, we are currently investigating potential breaches of both the Town and Country Planning Act and the Buildings Act.

"Demolition of a building should be carried out in accordance with Schedule 2 Part 11 Class B of The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015. The steps required by the legislation were not carried out in this case.

"We have referred these matters to our legal team with a view to taking enforcement action.

"As soon as we were made aware of the breaches during the demolition, we notified the Health and Safety Executive.

"We are also liaising with many other relevant statutory bodies, including Historic England, the police and fire services, amongst others. These bodies will take the lead on investigating the issues surrounding the fire, safety of the unauthorised demolition and securing the ongoing safety of the site.

"Our own investigation is in its early stages and whilst it continues at pace, we as ask for time to consider the facts thoroughly to ensure any future actions are meaningful and proportionate.

"The council is incredibly saddened by the loss of the building which, whilst not listed, was a heritage asset and important landmark to the local area and community.

"Over recent months, the council had been in conversation with the relevant national bodies regarding how best to protect and preserve this important heritage asset."

https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/news/2023/crooked-house-demolition-council-statement

[bomb_dog]

Amazing that someone piled up loads of soil on the entrances to the area so the fire engines couldn't get to the blaze easily. All an accident I'm sure.

[idunnosomename]

also the BBC have been putting this in bulletins now. and reposts today of two features of it in the 60s and 70s.

https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/1689339153165516802

also in the first sequence of this episode of Jonathan Meades' Further Abroad, 1994

[Sebastian Cobb]

Amazing that someone piled up loads of soil on the entrances to the area so the fire engines couldn't get to the blaze easily. All an accident I'm sure.

In this case I think it's pretty brazen, however it's not uncommon for access roads or entrances to derelict buildings to get blocked with sand bags full of masonry and stuff to stop cunts driving up and fly tipping.

Ironically often the people who offer this are doing so because they want to get rid of some broken up masonry without paying to tip it themselves.

[touchingcloth]

they should have applied to get it listed before they disposed of it at the very least. it would have easily got it. immediately stops any buyer fucking about with it.

Ah, I didn't realise owners had to apply for listing. I always assumed it was something local councils enacted unilaterally, like popping round to collect rates and count newts.

[idunnosomename]

In this case I think it's pretty brazen, however it's not uncommon for access roads or entrances to derelict buildings to get blocked with sand bags full of masonry and stuff to stop cunts driving up and fly tipping.

Ironically often the people who offer this are doing so because they want to get rid of some broken up masonry without paying to tip it themselves.

usually you put concrete blocks near the main road entrance

at the point they put the earth a flytipper would've just dumped their shit and fucked off. it was dumped under the abutments of the old railway bridge that served the big colliery

https://goo.gl/maps/RZQTwmoPfYQbk9Co6

100% meant to slow down the fire response

[idunnosomename]

Ah, I didn't realise owners had to apply for listing. I always assumed it was something local councils enacted unilaterally, like popping round to collect rates and count newts.

no usually that is how it is done. owners don't usually apply for listing because it is a massive pain in the arse. this was just a weird omission and a responsible corporate seller and their agents (CERTAINLY THEIR AGENTS) should've done something about it

[shoulders]

Amazing that someone piled up loads of soil on the entrances to the area so the fire engines couldn't get to the blaze easily. All an accident I'm sure.

Has the scent of a Craptain Tom Moore conceit.

[Sebastian Cobb]

usually you put concrete blocks near the main road entrance

at the point they put the earth a flytipper would've just dumped their shit and fucked off. it was dumped under the abutments of the old railway bridge that served the big colliery

https://goo.gl/maps/RZQTwmoPfYQbk9Co6

100% meant to slow down the fire response

Yeah, I don't doubt in that case it's designed to, but I reckon if questioned that's the excuse they'll use.

I've seen concrete blocks too, but sand bags full of big bits of rock/concrete/blocks or anything that's bulky enough to be a pain to move works, and you load/unload it with a hiab just as you would with a block with some rings on it.

[Blumf]

Isn't there a technicality that it was still a public road, even if it didn't lead anywhere, so access shouldn't be blocked, at least without council approval.

[idunnosomename]

pretty sure it's not an unadopted road so yeah you cannot dump shit on it even if you own the property at the end.

it's also a public right of way and there's three other footpaths going to the site, that's why fortunately someone got a shitload of footage of the cunting-down