Manchester

[holyzombiejesus]

Read a Guardian review of a shit sounding book by a guy called Andy Spinoza. I think the bit where I first thought 'oh fuck off' was where it says "Enter Tony Wilson."

I've lived/ worked in Manchester for over 30 years and I think the city's fucked and it's pigeons are coming home to roost. I also think the place outdoes the scousers when it comes to mythologising it's past and constantly looking backwards, and the influence of Wilson and Factory is wildly over-stated. Feels like that story is being written by a select few who were in the inner coterie.

Wondered what others thought.

[Kankurette]

I love Manchester, lived here for 20 years now, but I can't disagree about the Hacienda/Madchester thing being milked to death. And bloody Oasis. There's a Factory blue plaque in my area, funnily enough - I live near the house where it was founded.

[bgmnts]

Stayed in Middleton for a few days and went to market where someone was selling a chipped PlayStation with 10 games for something silly like a tenner.

Drove through Manchester, seemed like British City (TM)

[Stoneage Dinosaurs]

Went there a few years back. Big and good for wandering round, I like the trams and the Lowry gallery and people's history museum are good. However - a lot of it looks like the shit business district bits of London, despite some nice buildings Piccadilly gardens is a shit litter and weed infused toilet despite the fact that it's meant to be the nice central plaza bit. Also seems to have a massive problem with homelessness far more than any other uk city I've been to. I went to one of the suburbs (Walkden) because I heard it had the largest Tescos extra in the country, but it wasn't actually that big or impressive. That is the opinion of Manchester from someone who went there for one night, cheers

[Stoneage Dinosaurs]

I accidentally quoted my own post

[Kankurette]

Piccadilly Gardens is a shithole. It's not a fun place to walk through alone at night.

[Proactive]

I love Manchester, lived here for 20 years now, but I can't disagree about the Hacienda/Madchester thing being milked to death. And bloody Oasis. There's a Factory blue plaque in my area, funnily enough - I live near the house where it was founded.

Palatine Road isn't it? I used to live on Wilmslow Road way way back. Haven't been back to Manchester since 2000, presuming I'd barely recognise it now.

[holyzombiejesus]

If New Labour was a place.

[The Culture Bunker]

The city itself in the last 20 years has been transformed into a soulless collection of glass towers. It's become a really ugly place to walk around, not helped by the disaster that is Piccadilly Gardens.

The milking of musical history is grating the way it is the Beatles in Liverpool. Wouldn't mind but half the bands weren't even from Manchester. Oasis count, but they fucked off to London as soon as they could.

[Kankurette]

There's a huge problem with gentrification around Islington Mill as well, I seem to recall.

Do any of you remember that Origin development next to Canal Street that just sat there for years and fuck all happened? And it had a load of billboards, including one with a dead-eyed woman and a boxer dog. I think someone else bought it in the end.

[Emma Raducanu]

Studied there for a year. Stayed in Sale for a bit. Not for me.

[shiftwork2]

I went to Manchester Uni(versity) in the mid 90s and it was great.  A complete nut for all the Factory rubbish at the time (sorry buzby).  The Haçienda was £2 to get in on the student night and drinks were a similar price.  Ridiculously beautiful space and it was made available to those without any spondoolies by those who had.  Amazingly inclusive for a private venture.  Ok it would probably have been empty on a Tuesday in winter but whatever.

Even then there was a post-industrial theme park feel to Manchester.  My last visit suggested it hadn't even moved on from that.  The Wilmslow Road corridor still had the same Finglands buses chugging up and down and the area around around the University seemed cluttered and choked.

Someone needs to type: so much to answer for.  May as well be me.

[Kankurette]

Remember when UK North buses cost £2 for a weekly pass? Them were the days. And then they got shut down because the buses were dodgy as fuck and half the drivers could barely drive.

[The Culture Bunker]

My last visit suggested it hadn't even moved on from that.  The Wilmslow Road corridor still had the same Finglands buses chugging up and down and the area around around the University seemed cluttered and choked.

Must have been a while ago - think it's about a decade since Finglands were running between town and Didsbury.

Last time I took the bus down there - I much prefer the tram - the bus was held up in Rusholme for 20 minutes due to a fight between passengers. Made me hark back to the days where you had that crazy woman handing out flyers insisting she was the victim of global conspiracy involving the Masons.

[holyzombiejesus]

The walk from Piccadilly station down Market Street is unremittingly vile and the Corporation Street bit to Victoria is pretty foul too. The insistence on cramming Christmas market sheds on to every available space for 1/6 of the year doesn't help either.

Men in Harpurhey have one of the worst life expectancy rates in Europe. Meanwhile the council give a six figure sum to that stupid ugly unnecessary new  venue that they proudly boast can hold "all-night raves". Of course it's named after fucking Factory.

The council's shit and run by idiots. Cranes litter the skyline and none are building anything for the people who need it, just a load of Gary Nevilles building for more Gary Nevilles. Oh look, there's a massive new arena being built, that's useful.

[Kankurette]

It has been over a decade. And yes, I remember Jag Kancharna Singh aka the Crazy Bus Lady, the students were fascinated by her. She used to go on the Magic Buses mainly, she used the photocopier in a newsie near Man Met. Fuck knows what happened to her, I've not seen her in donkeys'. Her sons lived in Manchester but went no contact and she thought her husband was trying to kill them. She's probably dead now, poor thing.

HZJ, do you mean that horrible warehouse near Old Trafford? I saw John Carpenter there and it is one of the worst venues I've been to. Carpenter was wasted on it. I saw him in the Albert Hall a couple of years later and it was far better and I could actually see him! Plus it's always oversold and there's a serious fire risk. I fucking hate Market Street at the best of times, people are always trying to sell you things or convert you to their religion, but then the despair shacks appear in December and make it worse.

Thank fuck we have the Metrolink in my area now. It means not having to spend as much time sharing buses with students, though it's hell when Man United are playing at home.

[shiftwork2]

Does anyone else remember the episode of Coronation St in the summer of 1989 when one of the McDonalds and his girlfriend spent an afternoon in Affleck's Palace with an uncharacteristic jingle jangle guitar soundtrack before returning to Weatherfield wearing a couple of Madchester-style beanies and tie-dye t-shirts?  The music just stopped and we were delivered back to thirty years of Coro.  I think Manchester as a concept ended then.

[The Culture Bunker]

Don't forget that daft bit of railway that connects Piccadilly and Victoria stations that (I think) is currently used by one train (Airport - Redcar) each way every hour. Well worth the cost.

[holyzombiejesus]

HZJ, do you mean that horrible warehouse near Old Trafford? I saw John Carpenter there and it is one of the worst venues I've been to. Carpenter was wasted on it. I saw him in the Albert Hall a couple of years later and it was far better and I could actually see him! Plus it's always oversold and there's a serious fire risk. I fucking hate Market Street at the best of times, people are always trying to sell you things or convert you to their religion, but then the despair shacks appear in December and make it worse.

I think it's in Castlefield somewhere.

God, I hate Market Street. I'd actually prefer to walk through the Arndale than have to put up with the crowds watching shitty buskers. Do other cities get their many thoroughfare made unpassable due to gawping morons?

That area round Home is atrocious too. It's just all crammed together,  horrible, really unpleasant. Really galling when The Cornerhouse was fine and still seems to be boarded up.

[Minami Minegishi]

I used to teach at the Uni from 2002-4 (my first casual lecturing gig) and had to commute from Leeds twice a week. It's hard to put into words how much I disliked it. The gentrification is nauseating and the corpse-fucking nostalgia is extremely tiresome. Especially if you really, really, really hate Madchester and Oasis.

I suspect I would have quite liked it there a great deal more perhaps 10 or more years prior.

I think it might be me, but out of the 20-25 gigs I saw there, I'm struggling to remember one I enjoyed.

Oh yeah, Babes in Toyland were good.

[Norton Canes]

I like Manchester, never lived there though. Been visiting ever since we moved to Bolton in '83 so I vaguely remember a lot of the centre before it was rebuilt. Northern Quarter is good for shops, bars, food. Of course it's gentrified to fuck but it beats a load of run down warehouses. It's a city, it's built on (largely overseas) millions. Does it still have character? It's there if you look. Probably the only UK city I enjoy walking around more is Glasgow. 

Enjoyed the Madchester buzz back in the day, hate Oasis and their legacy. Still tons of gigs to see there.

[Kankurette]

One of the great things about being able to get the tram home from gigs at the MEN or whatever it's called now is not having to walk up Market Street and Piccadilly Gardens.

I've only been to Home once. Manchester still has plenty going for it - whenever my brother comes to visit we always end up somewhere in the Northern Quarter, there's plenty of nice bars and cafes - and, thank fuck, the Salisbury is still open, but the city centre itself is deso. What genius thinks, "Oh yeah, we need more student accommodation"?

On the plus side, I love the Withington Walls project.

[Donnas Cakes]

Apart from the problems around Picadilly Gardens I am glad that there is redevelopment because at least the city is moving on (even though its a bit more sterile overall). I'm not a massive fan of the PS3 style tower blocks that are dominating the skyline now but c'est la vie. There are some interesting buildings around St Peter's square and one which looks like piled up overhanging boxes near the law courts (makes me think of Detroit Techno album covers). The trams have genuinely made getting in and out much better than when I was a kid in the 80s where you'd have to brave the Arndale bus station or Piccadilly. Before I knew what liminal spaces were I had this fascination with Cannon St bus station under the Arndale, which sort of fed into the underground Arndale areas like the fishmarket (and the smell). Looking up you had some houses built into the roof of the Arndale and I always wondered what it was like to live there.

There are a few remnants left, a couple of dodgy porn mag shops that make me think of the bloke on M62 who won't sell his farm. This And That Cafe is still there with its classic 'rice and three'. I am a curmudgeon so the self conscious stencilling and graffiti gets on my nerves. Leave that to Berlin and Barcelona. Close to Victoria Station on the way out north years back was a simple graffito "WHO IS MICK MIDDLES?". It made me find out who he was, only to be disappointed. I strongly suspect that Mick himself wrote it.


This endless raking over the bones of JD/Madchester etc. That f**king Joy Divison Waveform thing. Ian Curtis was so pained he wanted to never have existed, but they slap that doe-eyed image of him up wherever they can, then make a themed cafe. Horrible.

Tony Wilson played up to his image and there's a decently done mural of him at the little barber shop between Withington and Northenden. He's looking through coloured shades and you can almost hear him calling himself a twat.

The Portico Library reading room is still there. Please no-one tell Guy Garvey it exists.

[allisonportchnik]

The Portico Library reading room is still there. Please no-one tell Guy Garvey it exists.

I've seen him in there so he's on to it, I'm afraid. Lives in London now though so it's fine.

[Snrub]

It has been over a decade. And yes, I remember Jag Kancharna Singh aka the Crazy Bus Lady, the students were fascinated by her. She used to go on the Magic Buses mainly, she used the photocopier in a newsie near Man Met. Fuck knows what happened to her, I've not seen her in donkeys'. Her sons lived in Manchester but went no contact and she thought her husband was trying to kill them. She's probably dead now, poor thing.

One of my friends used to get emails from her all the time - he always chatted to her and was interested in her and then he sort of got into the media and bless her she thought he could fight her cause (even though he was just doing some work for a golden oldies station).

Anyway, she messaged him quite a lot - usually loads at once and then breaks of months may go by and he was always very polite back. Last time he heard from her was mid 2020 when she was apparently sharing a flat with someone.

Talking of busses, did used to love a Finglands but R Bullock was the daddy if you weren't locked into a weeks pass and you happened to get one. No other person ever on it so it was like a 50p taxi.

Moved here 18 years ago and I really like it, but since the pandemic rarely go into town and agree it is a sort of a shit show.

[holyzombiejesus]

The Portico Library reading room is still there. Please no-one tell Guy Garvey it exists.

I have some bad news.

As part of 6 Music Celebrates Libraries, Guy Garvey goes on a tour of Manchester's libraries for his Finest Hour. The programme sees him visit the beautiful neo-gothic treasure trove that is John Rylands Library, the newly refurbished Manchester Central Library and the hidden gem that is the Portico Library.

[Goldentony]

I like it and i like the people there and the actual good things that happen in it in spite of the identikt shite pizza places/axe throwing/UK city starter kit bollocks are always great, like I saw Moor Mother and Author & Punisher on the same day as a dog parade there once but the facade is that of a crap basic UK city and only someone with the mind of a maniac could enjoy themselves in the centre

This endless raking over the bones of JD/Madchester etc. That f**king Joy Divison Waveform thing. Ian Curtis was so pained he wanted to never have existed, but they slap that doe-eyed image of him up wherever they can, then make a themed cafe. Horrible.

me and some mates went to Koffee Pot every Saturday for about three years and we always got sat next to a print by someone called M*ncsy (added the star to just save any SEARCHING IN CASE) that had a picture of a bee with line after line of self aggrandisng Cathedral City cheese level bollocks like MANCHESTER - WHERE A TABLES FOR DANCING and it feels in line with all this stuff. Cites having to celebrate what they gave the rest of us and givng us all murals to fucking get photos in front of on a trip over. Brandng for fucking places where no cunt can afford to live or hear themselves think after 8pm. SHITE, but not just Manchesters problem to be fair, just their strain of the same balls every city now does to some degree. But then there's no fucking mural of the entire cover of Special Beat Servce anywhere in Birmngham is there? SORT IT OUT

[idunnosomename]

i still like Manchester despite all the gentrification and shit skyscrapers (although wow they're really shooting up arent they), but that Aviva Studios (bought-out branding after the Factory International project ran out of money) they've built on the site of the old Granada Studio Tour round the back of the Liverpool Road Station is a load of fucking shit imo. The Bankside Turbine Hall is a space to be re-used creatively. building another one ex novo - when Manchester has loads of cavernous warehouses - is a stupid idea.

The Mayfield Depot regeneration is interesting but the gardens have loads of mallcops wandering about

[holyzombiejesus]

Manchester's probably great for the visitor or those financially comfortable but for the rest, the city feels fucked and no-one in power seems to give a toss. That's my main issue (although that dick saying that Tony Wilson basically rebuilt Manchester is very annoying).

Also, please can someone post this photo of Pat Karney with the Harpurhey Christmas tree?

https://twitter.com/patkarney/status/1720767591302545901?t=x4cywMW7DwYWFrqrxFm_EQ&s=19

[Gurke and Hare]

Before I knew what liminal spaces were I had this fascination with Cannon St bus station under the Arndale, which sort of fed into the underground Arndale areas like the fishmarket (and the smell). Looking up you had some houses built into the roof of the Arndale and I always wondered what it was like to live there.

There was a really good newsagent on Cannon Street next to one of the entrances into the Arndale. God, the Corn Exchange pre-bomb was amazing too. Can it be 1995 again please?