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Spider-Man 3: Into the Spider-Verse 2?

Started by Mister Six, October 15, 2020, 09:30:03 PM

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touchingcloth

Quote from: Stonefish on January 09, 2022, 04:57:04 PMI quite liked it. I'd never seen the Andrew Garfield Spider-man films but thought he was an excellent presence in this so I might check them out. He made a lot out of a little. I think the reason I was a bit underwhelmed was my expectations were that this would be a live action version of Into the Spider-verse, but the writing didn't seem to be on that level. It felt messier and less focussed.

Doctor Strange seemed out of character in this. I never read the comics or anything but my understanding is that Strange takes sorcery seriously. His job is to protect reality. Yet here he is flippantly altering the minds of basically everyone on the planet to help Peter Parker with his PR problem. Maybe he is supposed to be more reckless like this when it comes to magic but it felt rushed and seemed like they went with a last resort solution as their first resort.

I thought the same thing about the Garfield films, and I ended up watching the first Maguire one thanks to it. It was fine but towards the terrible side, but from reviews the Garfield ones seem dogshit. That said I also watched the Venom films thanks to this, and their reviews are in the toilet but they're actually pretty decent.

Re. Strange, someone upthread said that COVID had messed the release schedule up and it was actually supposed to be some character who is yet to be introduced (perhaps in the Dr Strange sequel) who cast the spell, so they rewrote with Strange casting it instead. Fair enough, though seems they could quite easily have used Ned instead.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: madhair60 on January 02, 2022, 11:43:46 PMI just assumed that Stark or May had left Peter some money
There are a few moments in this where, say, Pepper Potts (who should have been in it so they could have done another bit where they all laughed at her name) and the billions of Stark dollars she controls could have perhaps helped them out. Even if you think the Avengers or SHIELD or whoever wouldn't have a few $ set aside to help superheroes maintain their secret identities.

It was fine. Too long, definitely, and a little odd that Rhys Ifans and Thomas Haden Church wanted so little to do with it. Perhaps they didn't like the bad reviews of their previous installments? But Andrew Garfield was great and I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up again down the line.

samadriel

#392
This thread ended up being about No Way Home, but the next Spiderverse movie had a trailer come out recently. It's called Across the Spiderverse, and it's looking pretty good.

https://youtu.be/BbXJ3_AQE_o

Shaky

Thought this was surprisingly excellent until the end, which threw up too many questions. I don't understand why Strange's spell made people forget Peter entirely. During the aborted first attempt, it seemed clear that they'd simply forget there was a connection between Parker and Spider-Man but the two personas would continue to exist. Why did the rules change by the end? Maybe I missed some dialogue. And wouldn't there still be a ton of media evidence if only minds were wiped anyway?

samadriel

Peter specifically asks at the end that Strange cast a spell that makes everyone forget him -- it's not the same spell from the start.

Famous Mortimer

I feel like Happy would have a photo or two of Peter and May on his phone. Also...did Strange's spell change Peter's birth certificate? It just feels like they didn't think about it in any depth.

Shaky

Quote from: samadriel on January 19, 2022, 01:00:54 AMPeter specifically asks at the end that Strange cast a spell that makes everyone forget him -- it's not the same spell from the start.

Ah, OK. I must've been momentarily distracted.

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on January 19, 2022, 01:34:43 AMI feel like Happy would have a photo or two of Peter and May on his phone. Also...did Strange's spell change Peter's birth certificate? It just feels like they didn't think about it in any depth.

Was May even his Aunt in the "new" timeline? Not to mention MJ & Ned would've had a lot of stuff on their own phones, unless we're supposed to think they now can't perceive related texts, pics etc in some way. Or all global Parker evidence has been wiped. But then Strange specifically mentioned brainwashing...

The ending working on an emotional level but the mechanics of it baffle my bonce.

Shaky


BritishHobo

I read an interview with I think the writers about all the questions thrown up by the ending, and they said they deliberately wanted to leave the logical logistics of it until a potential next film, so they could just focus on the emotional fallout. But it definitely raises a load of questions in a bit of a glaring way. What happens if JK Simmons checks his news footage from the other day, where he's shouting "PETER PARKER IS SPIDER-MAN!"?

To be fair to them, it could make for a fun opening to a fourth film, to show off some examples of the ways in which people's perception of that reality are different.

druss

I mean this is one of the few occasions where "a wizard did it" is genuinely the only explanation you need. It was done with literal magic.

AsparagusTrevor

I just assumed that this world's reality had forgotten that Peter is Spider-Man, so there wouldn't be references to the fact remaining, there wouldn't be the news headlines or photographs of Peter or emails/texts from him etc.

The logistics of that does throw up more questions, but that's the case for any type of reality-altering shenanigans in media.


I had a fun theory that maybe we'll find out in the next film or Doctor Strange film that Strange inadvertently created a new off-shoot reality in the multiverse, and everyone is still living with all the consequences in the original universe, and we saw the 'fixed' off-shoot universe at the end.

JamesTC

The spell erased all reference to Peter Parker. Whether it be in a computer, in print or in people's heads.

Dr Rock

What did it replace them with? When Ned, MJ and Pete were all together, do they now remember it as just those two, or do they remember someone else there? Do they remember the same person? Who built the Lego Death Star with Ned, does he remember doing it alone now?

I think in the next film we'll have Ned and MJ remembering things differently, and suspecting something's fishy (they know they interacted with Dr Strange after all).

Mister Six

The only thing that's bothering me is, again, how Peter isn't starving to death on the streets of New York, but I suppose they just need to mention at the start of the next one that Dr Strange added a magical bank account with a ton of money in it under Peter's name to the spell, and leave it at that.

Dr Rock

He could visit Pepper Potts, prove he's Spider-Man, explain the situation, and she can give him a million dollars that she has lying around. Tony and Spider-Man must've still interacted a lot, she'll remember Spider-Man was risking his life fighting Thanos. Revealing his secret identity to her wouldn't put her in any danger as far as I can see.

lipsink

I reckon the next one should maybe not have MJ and Ned in it (until maybe the end where they discover something fishy going on?) Would be nice to see Peter Parker interact with some new folk and not just go back immediately on the ending of No Way Home.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: lipsink on January 21, 2022, 09:58:18 AMI reckon the next one should maybe not have MJ and Ned in it (until maybe the end where they discover something fishy going on?) Would be nice to see Peter Parker interact with some new folk and not just go back immediately on the ending of No Way Home.
I do think that's the plan, as Ned and MJ are off to MIT, so won't be around New York much. I guess there may be scope to bring them back, given Ned's magical abilities, and they could always have MJ attend a course that is taught by Reed Richards or such.

Famous Mortimer

I was expecting Dr Strange to give Ned his card and say "come see me for some graduate studies when you're done with MIT" or whatever (perhaps he did and I missed it?)

Stonefish

I took it to mean that Strange kind of rewrote reality so events unfolded as they would had Peter never existed. As with time travel I try not to think too much about magic in these films.

The Culture Bunker

The trailer for Dr Strange 2 they showed at the end of Spider-Man NWH did suggest there's consequences to all this reality-meddling he's engaged in, and that Wong warned him about.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Stonefish on January 21, 2022, 05:33:45 PMI took it to mean that Strange kind of rewrote reality so events unfolded as they would had Peter never existed. As with time travel I try not to think too much about magic in these films.
That makes more sense. But...where was Spider-Man living while all this was happening? Why does Happy know Aunt May?

Magnum Valentino

They did a thing like this in the comics (not One More Day, a more recent storyline) that dealt with some of the questions it raised. Like Black Cat could remember she'd had a relationship with Spider-Man but knew it wasn't right that she couldn't remember who Spider-Man was. When he told her it came about that the magic only made people forget until they were made to remember, then they remembered everything.

A recent Daredevil run also used the 'everyone forgets' magic and Elektra has conflicting memories about dating both Matt Murdock and Daredevil at the same time and not mowing they're the same person (which she did know when Miller was writing the book).

That Daredevil run (under Charles Soule) is really good btw, comics fans.

Mister Six

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on January 21, 2022, 02:31:34 PMI do think that's the plan, as Ned and MJ are off to MIT, so won't be around New York much. I guess there may be scope to bring them back, given Ned's magical abilities, and they could always have MJ attend a course that is taught by Reed Richards or such.

I'd put money on Gwen Stacy being introduced as a love interest, setting up a love triangle for later films, if I could be bothered.

I'd be delighted if they threw a curve ball and went for Black Cat instead, but Gwen seems to be the go-to now, being in Spider-Man 3, Amazing Spider-Man and Spiderverse...

madhair60

I'd just like to see them do things they haven't already done. No Gwen, please. Anyone else. Black Cat, as you say. Carlie Cooper, even. Just not things that they've already done. I don't know why you'd want to see that.

Magnum Valentino

Seems to be some totemic importance to do with names. It has to be Gwen because she's the girl from the old comics. It doesn't matter that she didn't really have a personality. I've just finished reading the run up to where she dies and a little after and Mary Jane is a much more interesting and complex character. I couldn't really tell you anything about Gwen. Even Betty Brant was sketched better.

But it's the name. For some reason these things have to keep repeating. It's either what people want or what they think they want.

Probably the same reason why Ganke Lee, who is inarguably Ganke Lee, has been renamed Ned Leeds in the films. The name is important to someone important's subconscious because it's older or some equally stupid reason.

It's like mass. It's just old, and can never change, and it's ritualistic, but you still turn up every week cause that's what you want to see (if you go to mass).

Carlie Cooper get the fuck outta here Madhair

touchingcloth

Who the fuck is Gwen. Never heard of the cunt.

madhair60

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 22, 2022, 03:09:20 PMCarlie Cooper get the fuck outta here Madhair

Why? It'd be more interesting than fucking Mary Jane and fucking Gwen Stacey again. A dynamic that hasn't been seen in the movies before, too.

Magnum Valentino

#417
Quote from: madhair60 on January 22, 2022, 03:36:49 PMWhy? It'd be more interesting than fucking Mary Jane and fucking Gwen Stacey again. A dynamic that hasn't been seen in the movies before, too.

I'd much sooner have conflicted cat burglar than roller derby nerd as far as big screen outings go is all. Carlie worked in that whole era/context but she'd be a harder sell in the focused format of a two hour movie.

(Edit) I think the dynamic of Peter being out of his depth with a sexually aggressive and morally ambiguous thief is more appealing than him almost looking down on Carlie despite him being smarter and arguably less awkward than him, which was at least how I felt the last time I read Slott.

Shaky

More for a Doctor Strange & The Multiverse of Madness thread, but some of the rumours/supposed leaks for that film are absolutely mental if true.

Mister Six

#419
Quote from: madhair60 on January 22, 2022, 11:23:34 AMI'd just like to see them do things they haven't already done. No Gwen, please. Anyone else. Black Cat, as you say. Carlie Cooper, even. Just not things that they've already done. I don't know why you'd want to see that.

Who says I want to see that?

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 22, 2022, 05:48:47 PMI think the dynamic of Peter being out of his depth with a sexually aggressive and morally ambiguous thief is more appealing

And it would fit with him being out of high school and in the adult world. And it wouldn't be a load of boring played out shite like having the fourth cinematic Gwen Stacy. Feige knows his Marvel onions, so hopefully he'll go with Black Cat.