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March 28, 2024, 10:01:56 AM

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The Shiternals

Started by madhair60, October 30, 2021, 05:54:32 PM

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Magnum Valentino

Galactus in it aye?, big hungry bastard.

phantom_power

I thought it had some interesting ideas and the plot was nothing like I was expecting but I am not sure it all hung together in the end. The central conceit of what they were trying to achieve against what their opponents wanted was a bit of a no-win in the end and I don't think the resolution satisfyingly tied it all together. It was a lot more fun than I was expecting and looked pretty great but I think there was maybe just too much going on in one film and there was perhaps a battle between Zhao's ideas and the overall Marvel machine.

I found the mid-credit scene pretty laughable and the acting of <redacted> was pretty woeful so I don't know how big a part he will play in the grand scheme of things

Overall I would class this as an interesting failure that was better than I was expecting but not one I will want to rewatch any time soon. It also makes me with that Marvel would give their directors a bit more freedom to do the things that made them stand out enough to be earmarked for these films in the first place

stonkers

Quote from: surreal on November 07, 2021, 09:30:14 AM
They could have avoided all of this if they had teased Galactus at the end of EndGame and started working towards the Fantastic Four rather than going down this rabbit hole.

I feel like this and Shang Chi bringing in a load more cosmic stuff is partly to build up to the Fantastic Four, while elsewhere they're setting Kang up as the next Thanos style final boss of the MCU. I'm sure we'll get Galactus in some form or other but he seems more like a one film villain.

I'll be lazy and basically just agree with what phantom_power says. Not the worst Marvel movie by a long shot, even just putting it up against stuff released this year it's a lot better than Black Widow, If we're counting the Disney+ stuff I'd rank it above Falcon Loves Winter Soldier and What If. I liked it but it's not likely to convince anyone who isn't already fairly invested in the MCU.

colacentral

Quote from: phantom_power on November 07, 2021, 10:20:49 AM
I thought it had some interesting ideas and the plot was nothing like I was expecting but I am not sure it all hung together in the end. The central conceit of what they were trying to achieve against what their opponents wanted was a bit of a no-win in the end and I don't think the resolution satisfyingly tied it all together. It was a lot more fun than I was expecting and looked pretty great but I think there was maybe just too much going on in one film and there was perhaps a battle between Zhao's ideas and the overall Marvel machine.

I found the mid-credit scene pretty laughable and the acting of <redacted> was pretty woeful so I don't know how big a part he will play in the grand scheme of things

Overall I would class this as an interesting failure that was better than I was expecting but not one I will want to rewatch any time soon. It also makes me with that Marvel would give their directors a bit more freedom to do the things that made them stand out enough to be earmarked for these films in the first place

I pretty much agree with this. It basically embraces the material's roots in sci-fi and fantasy from back before it was cool to be into such things, and does so without feeling the need to take the piss out of itself like the majority of these films do now. As flawed as it is, I admire the audacity to take itself as seriously as it does, particularly the very opening moment with the exposition. I didn't even follow that myself because I was too amused in my own thoughts about the typical non-sci-fi audience trying to get to grips with it.

The dialogue was terrible at points and I think Chloe Zhao's style was sometimes fundamentally at odds with the absurdity of the material.

I can see why there are so many negative reviews. Modern critics love JJ Abrams' Star Trek, and this was more Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

phantom_power

I admire the grand sci-fi ideas it had bit don't think it delivered them in an entirely satisfactory way

Oh, and the people saying that one of the Eternals invented the atomic bomb and was then upset when humanity used it didn't seem to be watching the film properly. It seemed clear to me that he had just helped with humanities general advancement and was upset when the end result was mass destruction

touchingcloth

Quote from: Dr Rock on November 07, 2021, 09:36:44 AM
Spoiler alert
The new Blade apparently
[close]

Yes,
Spoiler alert
Mahershalah Ali
[close]
, which is fun casting.




This film felt a bit too much like it was an attempt to recreate Avengers 1 but without the standalone films which preceded it. Hulks, Thors, and Captain Americas had had a film apiece before Avengers, and Iron Mans had had two. The reality I think is that this couldn't be done for the Eternals because they have essentially the same origin story but with, inexplicably, different powers bestowed on them by their creator guy. Part of the appeal of the Avengers has always been that a group of people with quite different histories and motivations have been forced to work together for The Greater Good.

Dayraven

QuoteIt seemed clear to me that he had just helped with humanities general advancement and was upset when the end result was mass destruction
My impression as well, though having him show up in the very area where the bomb was dropped gives a visual implication that a more distanced telling of the same point would have avoided.

touchingcloth

Quote from: surreal on November 07, 2021, 09:30:14 AM
Best thing was seeing both Jon Snow and Robb Stark  saying how much they loved Sersi.

Was that the human and the eyes guy from off of Rocketman?

Magnum Valentino

Anyone else reading thread title as "The Shite-Er-Nals"

samadriel

The Shitennials?

I enjoyed this much more than I expected to, I figured some endless, pompous flick featuring a bunch of third-stringers going "oh dear, humans are bad!" throughout history would be unbearable, but I took a punt on it and, although my characterisation of the film was kind of accurate, the characters mostly had a lot more humanity than I expected, the choice of historical flashbacks appealed to the Jared Diamond reader in me, and the loopy Kirby stuff was a lot more appealing than I predicted. It's too damn long, but it's pretty good.

The Culture Bunker

I quite enjoyed it too - a solid 7/10 on the Marvel film scale of things (which is probably a 3 or 4 to proper film buffs, of which I am not one). The two main criticisms I would have was the main leads (Chan and Madden) were the weakest of all the Eternals themselves - never really bought into the love story or the heel turn.

Also, the main Deviant seemed to not really serve much purpose and it felt like he could have been cut out and the film wouldn't have been that different in terms of reaching the same conclusion. He was just there to kill a couple of characters and not much else.

Was wondering whose voice that was at the end - so I guess that particular character is going to get expanded beyond their usual day/nightjob?

phantom_power

The main baddie was voiced by Bill Skarsgard as well, so you would think they would give him something to do other than spout lame bad-guy platitudes

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: phantom_power on November 14, 2021, 08:47:50 PM
The main baddie was voiced by Bill Skarsgard as well, so you would think they would give him something to do other than spout lame bad-guy platitudes
I did notice his name in the credits and did think "wait, did he provide that voice?" - just surprised as they could have pretty much hired the cheapest voiceover bod in the world, of me even, for all the point of it.

Bad Ambassador

He's not a voice actor, and delivers a bland performance, while Amersham sounded very distinctive, and was played by a professional voice man

Dickie_Anders

Just watched it, and surprisingly it was not shit

I like how the Eternals are a bit stilted and weird but still have a warm human quality to them. Makes sense for beings that have lived for thousands of years I suppose. The main lady, the Scottish guy and the Irish guy do this best. I don't know if it's even intentional, because some of the others are acted in a way that they're basically just normal humans. It honestly could be slightly shit acting that I've misconstrued as good acting. Really not sure.

It's better than the other Marvel bilge I've seen over the last few years, anyway


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Interesting how quickly this thread cooled off after the dedicated Marvel Moaning one started.

I saw this yesterday. Flawed, certainly, but I'm surprised that it would be the first one to be certified rotten (not that Rotten Tomatoes is particularly worth anyone's attention). Overall, I liked it, but it could have been a good bit better.

I have been thinking of late that green screen is the real problem with modern film effects and this bears that out. Not only did it look so much better for having filmed on location, but the bits of obvious greenscreen were reeeally obvious.

Unfortunately, I couldn't blame the biggest flaws on any inherent problems with the Marvel franchise machinery. It's all stuff that could have been fixed fairly easily. By far the biggest is some rather flat acting. Chan and Madden didn't have much chemistry (which, frankly, is ridiculous - just look at how hot they are!). If it was a deliberate choice, I don't think it was a good one. It certainly not helped by the characters being rather thinly sketched. Angelina Jolie gets the meatiest of the supporting roles, but it didn't really feel like it was all that thematically coherent.
Spoiler alert
If her madness is caused by repressed guilt over their mission, why does her storyline end with her killing another Deviant, just as the Celestials want? Shouldn't she have learned to make peace, for the greater good?
[close]
On a related note:
Spoiler alert
I liked the decoy villains thing (although it was a bit of a rehash of Captain Marvel) but, once Ikaris is revealed as the real antagonist, the Deviant bloke just becomes a loose thread. Maybe absorbing Ajak also infected him with compassion or the knowledge that that the Eternals were dupes. He could have been fighting to make them see the truth. Or maybe there was an I am Legend thing going on. That would have been interesting.
[close]

The film hints at a lot of big themes (free will, evolution, cycles of violence) but I'm struggling to think what it really says about any of them. The Deviants capacity to evolve is what sets them apart from the Eternals and the main one physically changes throughout the film, but they don't have any kind of arc. Perhaps they're supposed to be foils for humanity, whose increased technological power makes us similarly destructive. It seems to be building to something when we visit the oil drilling station in Alaska and see that the Deviants were set free from a melting glacier. This instantly gets chucked out the window though, as the glacier is blamed on the Earth's core heating up (maybe climate change denial was the price for all the diverse casting and whatnot - can't piss off the gammons too much). Speaking of the right wing: it was rather daring that the climactic action scene was essentially
Spoiler alert
them performing a gargantuan abortion.
[close]

No doubt, smarter (or more pretentious) people than me will spend a lot of time and effort talking on Youtube about what it all. Speaking of which: This video suggests a good and very simple change that addresses many of the film's issues.




11 stars out of 5! All hail the prophet Kevin Feige!

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on November 22, 2021, 08:04:52 PMInteresting how quickly this thread cooled off after the dedicated Marvel Moaning one started.


Dayraven

QuoteThe Deviants capacity to evolve is what sets them apart from the Eternals and the main one physically changes throughout the film, but they don't have any kind of arc.
In the comics, they kind of represent an extreme case of evolutionary variety — no Deviant physically resembles another - in contrast to the Eternals' static perfection. Basically turning them into animals for the film short-changes the idea.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Dayraven on November 23, 2021, 12:31:14 PMIn the comics, they kind of represent an extreme case of evolutionary variety — no Deviant physically resembles another - in contrast to the Eternals' static perfection. Basically turning them into animals for the film short-changes the idea.
To expand a little on something I said on seeing it, you could have pretty much cut out the whole Deviants storyline and still been able to get to the same point. Have the Eternals on earth to act as protectors from various threats over the years, so that the big lad would be born on schedule.

I'm not familiar with the comics, but I did wonder if the writers felt "we've got to have the deviants in somehow..." and sort of forced them in with sledgehammer precision.

elliszeroed

Huh, I thought this was one of the better Marvel movies. Different, heartwarming, epic.

Probably the only Marvel movie I think could have been longer, to make it more epic.

Glebe

Watched this last night on Disney+. It's a bit of a frustrating film, it looks beautiful and there are some interesting twists and turns but it doesn't quite hold together. I enjoyed it for the most part though.

Lord Mandrake

I thought this was comically bad. Talk about not having a clue, it's all so shallow. I laughed out loud at Salma Hayeks delivery of the first line. The lead actress is an atrocious vacuum and her opposite an absolute shadow.

Every attempt at comic relief was aids tier and only Druig was, mildy interesting. The action was pitiable and all charachter/set design was misguided on every level. Fuck the cinematography aswell, I thought it was amateurish.

mjwilson

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on November 07, 2021, 10:14:53 AMGalactus in it aye?, big hungry bastard.

There's a big boy with a funny shaped head, maybe he's Galactus's buddy.

Endicott

^
^
Don't sit on the fence!

beanheadmcginty

My mate summed it up well when he remarked that "it's like someone gave the BBC drama department a Disney budget".

Small Man Big Horse

Haven't read the whole thread yet so apologies if I'm just repeating someone else's views, but this is how I felt:

Smug, superior and patronising super beings hang around humanity making sure we're not killed by "deviants" for thousands of years, and then it turns out they're robots and just protecting the Earth until it can give birth to a Celestial God type thing. It's such a weird fucking film, the first forty five minutes are largely irritating but then Kumail Nanjiani is finally given some proper screen time and it becomes more fun, and that's also the case when we get to meet Brian Tyree Henry in the present day, but it's also a case where I found myself thinking "That's a beautiful shot / Oh jesus the dialogue is so horrible / Gosh that's all kinds of pretty / Jesus who wrote this cliché packed shit / Oof that's some dodgy acting / Ah fuck, the words, the words, why are they so bad" etc, etc. There's a fair amount I'm not sure adds up either (Like if they're robots isn't it a dick move burning Gilgamesh's corpse, can't they just take him back to the big celestial chap for him to repair? And why did Arishem make one of them a child? What was the point in that?) but  the second half was vaguely entertaining and if there's a sequel I'd probably watch it. 6.0/10

SteveDave

We finished this tonight. The second half was a lot better than the first half, with even the traditional end of film fight having a bit of weight to it.

The CGI on Patton Oswalt's troll thing was pure shit though.

Glebe

Quote from: SteveDave on January 22, 2022, 10:45:31 PMThe CGI on Patton Oswalt's troll thing was pure shit though.

Yeah bit cartoony looking, kinda takes you out of the film a bit.

SteveDave

I've just read that the troll thing was a last minute addition, hence it looking shit.