Loans

[sproggy]

Borrowing is fine if you pay it off within the agreed terns.

Other sea birds a freely available, subject to status.

Seems to be a little confusion between domestic commercial loans and company operating credit, and the fertiliser analogy was shit, so I'm still with the Titted one on this.

[I accept the terms of the]

Sounds like he's doing OK for himself, his 'buffer' should be money he's saved. What a ludicrous idea eh?

You're a fucking moron and should be ignored.

[mook]

Other sea birds a freely available, subject to status.

Seems to be a little confusion between domestic commercial loans and company operating credit, and the fertiliser analogy was shit, so I'm still with the Titted one on this.

i fail to see the difference.

[Still Not George]

Seems to be a little confusion between domestic commercial loans and company operating credit, and the fertiliser analogy was shit, so I'm still with the Titted one on this.

Actually, biggy's chart on the last page once again completely undermined him by demonstrating how remarkably little of this overpopulated country's debt load is actually from domestic borrowing.

And yes, the fertiliser analogy was shit, that was the point of it. Unless you thought that I was using poo as an actual analogy for debt, rather than as an analogy for an ordinary element of a mundane process that people have been conditioned to consider disgusting due to a combination of weird Victorian hangovers and the illusion of thrift. It's a psychological analogy, not a literal one.

But yeah, I agree, if you ignore the actual thing being discussed, it's just a guy fuckin' a pig, ain't it?

[biggytitbo]

how remarkably little of this overpopulated country's debt load is actually from domestic borrowing

It's not remarkablly little, but that's not the point. Every sector of the economy is saturated in debt, that's why we're paralysed, a zombie economy. The wheels aren't going to move again until someone  takes a loss, but all the key participants who should be taking the loss are been protected by the government.

[Still Not George]

It's not remarkablly little, but that's not the point. Every sector of the economy is saturated in debt, that's why we're paralysed, a zombie economy. The wheels aren't going to move again until someone  takes a loss, but all the key participants who should be taking the loss are been protected by the government.

Looooook. Aaaaaaaaat. Theeeeeeee. Graaaaaaaaaaaph.

Your own Morgan Stanley propaganda graph (intended to explain why they and their mates aren't lending to anyone but the fuckers responsible for all that green). See the blue bit? DO YOU SEE THE BLUE BIT, BITCHES? Right. That's domestic borrowing as a %ge of GDP, and it's exactly the same as everyone else's.

Numpty.

[biggytitbo]

Oops George, just because the UK is no 1 on that list doesn't mean I was singling it out[nb]In fact in another thread I did point out how the green bit on the UKs was overstated[/nb]. The point is, they're all terrible figures, and they're all western debt based economies that have become paralysed by excess borrowing in all sectors.

[Still Not George]

Except you inexplicably think that household and commercial debt is in some way a bad thing, rather than a driver of demand, which is what it actually is. And Government debt shouldn't even be on the same graph. The problem is financial sector debt, and specifically the fact that our green bar is larger than Japan's entire debt load.

[Johnny Yesno]

Get with 2012, everyone borrowed too much, leaving the entire economic system utterly paralysed.

Haha! "Everyone".



Holy fucking shit! Why on earth would we tinker with the blue bit when any gains there would be utterly dwarfed by the green bit? Shouldn't we tackle the green bit first as even any small percentage gains would be significant?

[biggytitbo]

Jesus! The totality of the debt is the problem, when all sectors are saturated with excess borrowing it gums the wheels of the entire economy and everything gets paralysed. When the debts get so large even the interest payments cannot be comfortably sustained from earnings then barring a massive system wide default you've reached the end of the road. The financial sector is the worst part of it, but its all interconnected, whilst they're granted the privlege of not having to realise their vast array of bad debts, those liabilities get pushed onto us - further paralysis.

[biggytitbo]

Haha! "Everyone".



Holy fucking shit! Why on earth would we tinker with the blue bit when any gains there would be utterly dwarfed by the green bit? Shouldn't we tackle the green bit first as even any small percentage gains would be significant?

As explained in another thread, the green bit is overstated, a lot of that is the double, triple and more counting that makes up derivatives. It's fantasy and if it was ever to be realised it'd be the end of the world. That's not for a second to say the financial sector debts aren't huge and incredibly important in the wider picture. But the main issue is the aggregate debt and the paralysis that ensues in a debt based economy when there's no more capacity in any part of it for more debt.

[Jamie Oliver is fat]

Aren't we all forgetting the real meaning of pinball tables here?

[Johnny Yesno]

As explained in another thread, the green bit is overstated, a lot of that is the double, triple and more counting that makes up derivatives. It's fantasy and if it was ever to be realised it'd be the end of the world. That's not for a second to say the financial sector debts aren't huge and incredibly important in the wider picture. But the main issue is the aggregate debt and the paralysis that ensues in a debt based economy when there's no more capacity in any part of it for more debt.

So the problem is the real debt and not the pretend debt? The pretend debt doesn't have to paid back, right, as it's just derivatives and that? Does Morgan Stanley Research not understand this?

Chocky, I think you should buy pinball machine futures. Sure, you won't get the pleasure of actually playing pinball but you will still be able to have the pleasure of a high score and a sense of righteousness, which are what people in the know describe as "true value".

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

If he's so awesome why does he need credit at all?

He gets his kitchen done earlier at no additional cost so its pretty obvious really.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

I tried to apply for a £1000 loan with my bank Natwest but they declined for some unknown reason despite me being employed and having a decent credit record. I'd apply with other banks but I believe that every failed application makes your credit rating go down so I'm unsure what the best course of action is.

I want to buy a pinball machine.

I wouldn't bother with a formal loan - get a credit card that offers 0% interest on purchases for a period.

Some options here:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cards/best-0-credit-cards#tesco

[biggytitbo]

He gets his kitchen done earlier at no additional cost so its pretty obvious really.

Why didn't he just buy the kitchen out of his own money?


Still, not sure this particular kitchen cul-de-sac is really relevent to discussion about loans.

[biggytitbo]

So the problem is the real debt and not the pretend debt?

Same thing, keep up! It's all pretend.


These threads are getting really weird. I'm getting deja-vu 8 times over yet no matter how much things continue to get worse some people just keep clinging to the same old rubbish.

[mook]

he's not paying any fucking interest on it you dappy bugger. he's probably earning some interest on his savings though. so he's up. why can't you understand this principle?




edited out a naughty swear.

[hoverdonkey]

Why didn't he just buy the kitchen out of his own money?

Presumably he'd rather get his kitchen done now, not in a year's time. If he can get it done now and knows he can pay off the loan, interest free, why not? But of course, you know that because you're not an idiot, just being deliberately obtuse.

[I accept the terms of the]

How are we supposed to compete with those pesky landowners if we can't borrow money?

[WesterlyWinds]

Burn everything on their land.

[Johnny Yesno]

Same thing, keep up! It's all pretend.

If it's all pretend why treat the double and triple counted debt differently from the ordinary debt? It isn't treated differently in the bar chart you posted. Can you try being consistent for once?

These threads are getting really weird. I'm getting deja-vu 8 times over yet no matter how much things continue to get worse some people just keep clinging to the same old rubbish.

As the kids say, no u.

[dandoystevski]

How are we supposed to compete with those pesky landowners if we can't borrow money?

Steal all their shit.  Let's see them 'grow their way' out of that.

[bomb_dog]

...anyway, which table were you thinking of getting? Be careful to look for a good price, as some have shot up stupidly recently. Addams Family, Medieval Madness and Twilight Zone have all gone up 2x in value in the last five years. If you get the right price and maintain it properly, it should at least hold its value.

Not got one myself, but know someone who now has about 9 tables...

[Still Not George]

Medieval Madness is still my favourite table EVER. I visited a company somewhere near Oxford that specialise in handheld conversions of pinball tables, and they had a fantastic collection in there. I bypassed the ancient wooden table and went straight to the MM table they had in the corner. Then ignored the business meeting I was supposed to be there for :D for a while anyway.

[Mr Eggs]

     Sell your arse and buy this              http://www.libertygames.co.uk/store/pinball_machines/brand_new_pinball_machines/tron-legacy-pinball/

     I'm sure it will all be worthwhile.

[chocky909]

Credit card looks to be the solution, if they'll have me - I've never had one before. I do use my Argos card quite a lot and I've had a couple of BNPL loans for electronic goods so I was surprised Natwest wouldn't give me a loan.

I've become obsessed with pinball over the last year and I NEED a real table. I've started getting in touch with other owners near me so that might curb my appetite for a while, maybe enough to save.

I'm aware that the prices are all over the place at the moment but I know good value when I see it and I've been studying the market.

SNG, the Medieval Madness tables are going for silly prices right now between £5k and £10k. It's OK but I don't find the voices funny much. I really like Attack From Mars better which is a very similar playing table. By the way, tell me more about those handheld conversions...EDIT was it Farsight Studios?

I really want a decent Twilight Zone and I should be able to get one for about £2k but there are plenty of decent 90's Bally/Williams that you can pick up for under £1k. I was also flirting with preordering a brand new Jersey Jack Pinball Wizard Of Oz which looks to be much better quality than Stern are currently making - not sure about the theme mind.

Sell your arse and buy this...

http://www.libertygames.co.uk/store/pinball_machines/brand_new_pinball_machines/tron-legacy-pinball/

I'm sure it will all be worthwhile.

It does look and sound amazing especially the neon lit Special Edition with 3D backglass but I'd have to play it to see if I enjoy the feel and look of Stern which many say is just a bit 'cheap'. That's why I'm tempted by the JJP table because they have the rights to use WMS pinball parts which just feel better and more satisfying.

[Rev]

I'll be blunt here:  If you're considering getting a loan to buy a pinball table, a credit card is definitely not for you, although you're the ideal mark for them.

As Blumf mentioned right at the start of the thread, investigate credit unions.  You'll usually have to save a bit before you borrow, but the interest rate is likely to be about 1% a month, and they're far more approachable than other organisations if things suddenly go wobbly.  Credit cards are handy for incidentals, but I seriously can't see why credit unions aren't more popular for 'normal' loans.

[chocky909]

I'll look into it, thanks.

I hate everything financial. It just all makes me feel sick.

[chocky909]

BUMP

I'm hoping that one of you good people has a good way of converting my £6000 credit card limit with 15 month interest free credit on all purchases to a more liquid form. The pinball man won't accept my card!

I told you I was crap at finance. I don't know anything about this world.

I'll be blunt here:  If you're considering getting a loan to buy a pinball table, a credit card is definitely not for you, although you're the ideal mark for them.

I don't understand why it's such a bad idea if I work the debt properly. I've always been very cautious with credit and I only want to take advantage of them because of the interest free periods and I can't get a proper loan.

PM me if you don't want to come across as 'dodgy'...