The Crown - what the ...

[kalowski]

My good wife, the Lady Kalowski watches this. I've clearly never been in the same room before. This is fucking dreadful. Seem to have a recovering stroke victim as Lady Di, lolling her head and struggling to look upwards. She liked 80s pop, you know, which they indicate by playing Ultravox and other classics.

Fuck, she is roller skating in Buckingham Palace whilst Girls on Film plays. Somewhere a director thought that was a good idea.

I'm going to bed to try and look into the nearby football ground. Thankfully Alty have just scored in the 89th minute.

[El Unicornio, mang]

The first two seasons are really good, I seem to recall finding the third season a bit of a drag at times but the episode about the Aberfan disaster was a standout and Helena Bonham Carter very good. Haven't watched this new season yet. I did notice that the third season stopped with the f and c words and nudity that were littered throughout s1&2, no idea why.

[bgmnts]

Lot of shows wanking of the establishment the past decade or so. The Crown is no exception. I just want them all dead.

The Aberfan one was good though, Queen didnt even bother doing her little walkaround. Cunt.

[kidsick5000]

There's a scene where Diana's friends ask if the palace phone's ringtone is God Save The Queen.
In 1980.

[mojo filters]

After enjoying (though not loving) the first two seasons I had high-ish hopes for S3 and especially Olivia Coleman, after all her exceptional work in John Morton shows.

The Crown seemed like one of the few shows that so effectively demonstrated the positive impact of subtle yet high production values, which alongside tight plotting and smart casting, allow the casual viewer to remain engaged throughout.

I really appreciated the Harold Wilson subplot running through S3, plus Helena Bonham Carter did a great job taking over Margaret's role after it had already been so well established - but overall I agree that it really dragged in far too many places.

Maybe another issue was Claire Foy's pitch perfect portrayal in S1 and 2, as sadly Olivia Coleman appeared rather underwhelming. I get that they were trying to show the Queen's journey from disciplined yet spirited youngster, to accepting the full responsibilities and other heavy weights of the crown (pun intended) over time. Unfortunately I just became less interested and invested in the fate and trajectory of the character.

The Aberfan episode was certainly a standout. It neatly tied all the principal characters into what was a really moving story. Over the years I've watched quite a few documentaries about that event, and I was very impressed at how well they captured the contemporary spirit plus all the details of that tragedy.

I might be getting this wrong given how long it is since I saw them, but I don't really recall a lot of swearing and nudity in the first two seasons. I distinctly remember George VI's notably jarring use of cunt in the bawdy limerick, mostly because of an awkward and hesitant attempt of my own father to bond with my teenage self via the same verse - swiftly followed by an admonition not to repeat such in mixed company, as such language apparently "belonged in the barrack rooms."

I haven't watched the new season yet. I suspect it'll have to wait until there's only slow news happening over the Christmas and new year period. However I'm looking forward to seeing Gillian Anderson as Thatcher, especially after her star turn in that high quality BBC police procedural set in Northern Ireland (The Fall?)

Overall I think the biggest failing of The Crown is that whilst attempting to pull back the curtains on a notoriously secretive British institution, it too often veers towards sheer hagiography and blunts the edges of genuine controversy.

The discerning viewer doesn't have to have any reverence for any establishment to enjoy a decent historical depiction on screen, though I'm sure that particular attitude is pervasive in any community with a predilection towards presenting over-simplistic, snappy and uber edgy retorts.

Nevertheless any such show depicting privilege needs to pay special care and attention to the presentation of such. Otherwise you end up in tedious Downton Abbey territory, which is nothing more than lazy pandering to the most objectionable elements of such privilege (disclaimer: my knowledge of the latter show is akin to Stewart Lee's respective knowledge of Game of Thrones!)

[touchingcloth]

Is it any more accurate than The Windsors?

[Rolf Lundgren]

Maybe another issue was Claire Foy's pitch perfect portrayal in S1 and 2, as sadly Olivia Coleman appeared rather underwhelming. I get that they were trying to show the Queen's journey from disciplined yet spirited youngster, to accepting the full responsibilities and other heavy weights of the crown (pun intended) over time. Unfortunately I just became less interested and invested in the fate and trajectory of the character.

One of the major battles of The Crown, especially in S3 and S4, has been that they have to square theoretical instances where the Queen showed compassion and humanity with the factual occasions where she didn't. Aberfan as an example revealed a lot and then in S4 we're supposed to believe the Queen is moved by

Spoiler alert

a bedside chat with Michael Fagan

[close]

. It really wants to depict the Queen in a certain way but is thwarted by reality.

I really enjoyed Season 4 but it's a soap opera. Too far-fetched to be considered anything approaching realistic but definitely fun. Gillian Anderson was alright, especially the voice, but constantly looks like she's sucking on a lemon. Olivia Colman was great too but the show is more about Charles and Diana than anything with the occasional Thatcher episode thrown in.

[Mister Six]

Watching S4 with the missus now, the episode where Philip's dad gets blown up by the IRA. The bloke from Rome/GoT does a great Philip. I'm worried that crossing over the Gillian Anderson and Margaret Thatcher parts of my brain might lead to my libido getting really fucked up.

[mojo filters]

Watching S4 with the missus now, the episode where Philip's dad gets blown up by the IRA.

I've not watched it yet, but for the sake of accuracy let's clarify:

Lord Mountbatten was the sister of Prince Philip's mother, Princess Alice of Denmark and Greece. He was also technically the second cousin once removed of Queen Elizabeth II. He was never part of the royal family, due to a "morganatic" marriage of one set of grandparents.

Further information: Mountbatten was a navel disaster as an officer from 1918 to 1946, with a few exceptional bouts of valient service.

He royally fucked up as Viceroy and Governor General of India (1947 - 48) as he was perceived (by the otherwise exceptional Prime Minister Clement Atlee) as a liberal fellow. He did manage to befriend Nehru, but ignored the wise counsel of Gandhi.

He badly rushed India's independence, as he was keen to get back to the UK - contrary to his mandated task of uniting India and avoiding the separation with Pakistan. To cut a long story short, this characteristic ineptitude led to the conflict in Kashmir that continues to this day...but at least we got a great Led Zeppelin song out of it!

On his return to Britain he continued to fail upwards, from a vice admiral - through Fourth to First Sea Lord - to become Admiral of the Fleet in 1956. He then became Chief of the Defence Staff, retiring in 1965 (though his active duty ended years earlier.)

To be fair he was on the right side of the issue, when attempting to advise PM Anthony Eden's disastrous and career-ending approach to the 1956 Suez crisis (addressed in S2 of The Crown.) This position was nothing special, as only France and Israel went along with Eden - versus the rest of the United Nations including the Commonwealth.

Apologies folks...I'm not only fucking bored writing this shit, I'm left wondering what useful knowledge could replace this material in my inherently limited brain!

[Camp Tramp]

My impression of Mountbatten is that he could talk the talk but not walk the walk. Alan Brooke certainly thought so.

Of Lord Louis Mountbatten, Chief of Combined Operations, Alanbrooke is reported to have said that he is "quite irresponsible, suffers from the most desperate illogical brain, always producing red herrings". On another occasion he said of Mountbatten that he was a "crashing bore" who lacked judgment – "Seldom has a Supreme Commander been more deficient of the main attributes of a Supreme Commander than Dickie Mountbatten"

[studpuppet]

I've not watched it yet, but for the sake of accuracy let's clarify:

Lord Mountbatten was the sister of Prince Philip's mother,

Who'd have thought a Netflix show would scoop that? Do they have a scene where they find his dress floating in the water after the boat goes up? And on that (literal) bombshell...

[Bently Sheds]

Mrs Sheds is watching this, I caught a bit of Charles & Di in Australia and thought it was about Alan Partridge's marriage to a young Theresa May.

[Butchers Blind]

Has Philip started being racist yet?

[Dog Botherer]

who's going to be playing Epstein in this?

[An tSaoi]

spunk snatcher

[chveik]

who's going to be playing Savile in this?

[Mister Six]

Was quite miffed by the "Maggie meets the royals" episode as it made me feel sorry for the cunt. And I didn't like the way it portrayed her as A GIRL POWER ICON TAKING IT TO THE FUDDY DUDDY OLD MEN. They'd better make it clear she was a monster by the end of the series.

[jamiefairlie]

who's going to be playing Epstein in this?

David Duchovny

[Dog Botherer]

David Duchovny

actually that might work.

[Johnboy]

in Season 3 I didn't like the way they depicted the Apollo 11 astronauts as naive kids and that Prince Philip was the only one who really got the import of the moon landings

and princess Anne singing along to starman in the car - fuck off

[Dex Sawash]

Mountbatten was a navel disaster

An outie?

[Keebleman]

Haven't watched any of it, but I was an extra in the Aberfan episode so I expect that's why you all seem to like that one so much. 

One of the scenes I was in was with the procession of hearses through the town, and the families walking behind.  It was actually quite upsetting to film, though other extras told me that the graveside scenes, shot the day before, were even more harrowing.  We were in the Rhondda, so one valley over from where the disaster happened.

[Attila]

I've known about the first 3 series through osmosis mostly (I don't get much time to look at tv and that at the moment, and my precious free trash-tv time goes to Holby and Casualty, don't care who knows it) -- mostly about casting, reviews here and there on the costuming. I did see the 3rd series episode about the Wales mining disaster after reading reviews of it.

However, the more I have read about the sheer silliness of series four (and that the events here now start to cross into my timeline as  an American, Thatcher and Randy Andy and the 'fairytale love story/wedding'), I was keen to see it. Mr Attila, who's mind has apparently been taken over by space aliens the past few days surprised me by asking if I wanted to watch an episode just to see if it were more or less accurate than The Windsors.

'Just the one,' he said, just to see. Then we watched the second one last night...and he's like, 'Hmmm.. only up to them meeting and shooting creatures, doesn't really go off the rails til the engagement and wedding, maybe we'll do part 3, but that's it.' I suspect that will be the case up through to the end of the series.

Admittedly, Gillian Anderson's Thatcher simultaneously amuses him and makes him clench.

Every time someone, especially Diana, says 'Gosh!'  he laughs like a drain, so there's that bonus, too.

If anything, it's led him to remark randomly, in the voice, 'Whatever love means' in response to any rando question or comment that comes along from me, stuff he's watching on TV at the moment, the cat meowing for a chicken biscuit treat, &c.

Also, adding Prince Philip's thoughts as voice-overs only improves the experience.

[Buelligan]

An outie?

Mmm.  Heheh.  Preferable to gazing, like Nelson with his dickie eye.

[touchingcloth]

My mother-in-law just watched an episode where Mountbatten got blowed up in his boat by the IRA, and I spent the rest of the episode wishing that everything else with a royal in it got blowed up.

The queen's carriage, BOOM

Jug Ears' Jag, KABLOW

Anne's horse, NEEEEEYAGASAKI

[SteveDave]

I work with some people who are half my age and one of them was incredulous about Charles' treatment of Diana. Like it wasn't public knowledge? Maybe it's not. What are teaching kids in schools these days?

[touchingcloth]

I work with some people who are half my age and one of them was incredulous about Charles' treatment of Diana. Like it wasn't public knowledge? Maybe it's not. What are teaching kids in schools these days?

If they're teaching them about other stuff than the personal relationship of Charles and Diana, that can only be a good thing.

Though that said, there's probably some civic value in putting our nation's youngsters through a Your Future King's a Cunt module or two.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I'm quite enjoying this season, although they're maybe going for more of a sympathetic angle to Thatcher than I was expecting, and making the royals look worse than they have in any previous seasons (not that that's a bad thing). I feel like the glamour and sympathetic approach to the Queen and co. is getting gradually eroded with each season. Totally unsubtle dig at Prince Andrew getting involved with a 17-year old "blue movie" actress. Emma Corrin is good as Diana, although they're replacing her with 6'3" Elizabeth Debicki for season 5 when they do another cast overhaul. A really nice little moment of her waking up to "Vienna" by Ultravox.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Finished this, the Fagan episode is a really good look at the poverty and hopelessness caused by the Thatcher government, and featured some good tracks ("Twenty Four Hours" by Joy Division and English Beat "Stand Down Margaret" among them)

Also great to hear Edward call Charles "impressively cunty". I can imagine the old lady royalists clutching their pearls at moments like that. He really is portrayed as an awful human being.

[paruses]

What season can I start with this? I really don't give a shit about them and almost resent being told how hard it has been taking on their roles and their sacrifices. But this series looks batshit entertaining with Scully channeling Faith Brown and Diana rollerskating around to 80s pop.

Is the previous one similar? I have an urge to watch the Aberfan one except that upsets me so much that I would rather watch a documentary about it rather than some privileged indifference.