Trainspotting 2

[CaledonianGonzo]

Ewen B reckons about 40% of the footage they shot wasn't used.

[mobias]

Wonder if there will be any directors cut. It definitely felt like a longer film than the original.

Does anyone here know where the exterior shots of Sick Boy's pub were shot? Some I know said its in Grangemouth. Not sure if thats right though.

[Default to the negative]

Just watched it. Interesting that it was almost nothing like Porno. There were little ideas from the book, here and there, but those scenarios played out in completely different ways. The cubicle scene happened in the book, but Renton escaped without Begbie recognising him. (Begbie is wearing white socks in the film version of the scene, as a nod to the source material.) Spud as an aspiring author is straight out of Porno, but there he never gets any recognition for it and ends up burning his manuscript. And so on and so on.

Lots of differences between novel and film. Thematically, they are pretty much opposites. The theme of the film seems to be, 'When you grow old and uncool, you retreat into your past for the comfort of the familiar.' It has that nostalgic vibe. Whereas in the book it was, 'A crook is always a crook and there's no honour among thieves.'

I like both. T2 is kind of a broad comedy, in some ways, but it does deliver on those laughs. The 'No More Catholics' song went down well in the cinema. I think it really struck a chord (G and F) in these nationalist times. Especially with the accompanying visuals.

If I have one gripe – and it is just one – it's that the finale reminded me a lot of Sunshine. Boyle finishing things off with a B-movie slasher chase. I actually preferred the book ending on this particular thing.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

The good outweighs the bad in this film, but the sheer amount of deleted footage might explain why some of it makes no sense.

Spoiler alert

How does Renton know that Diane is now a hotshot lawyer? They presumably haven't spoken to each other in 20 years. We cut from the gang needing legal help, to Renton and Veronica suddenly turning up in Diane's office. If there had been a scene of him finding her online - presuming she hadn't married/changed her name since 1996 - then that would've explained the sudden contrivance. I mean, it still would've been contrived, but not quite as jarring as what we see in the film.

[close]

Spoiler alert

As mentioned on the previous page, what's the deal with Renton suddenly deciding to shoot heroin with Sickboy? It comes out of nowhere, and it's never referenced again. If we're to believe him when he says he's been clean for 20 years, then surely this decision wouldn't come lightly to him. People relapse all the time, I know, but you'd think a film in which a former heroin addict decides to take heroin again would dwell on this detail instead of throwing it away.

Or is that the point? Addicts can just relapse without thinking? That's true, but given that Renton is ostensibly the protagonist - even though it's really Spud's story - you'd think they'd spend at least one more scene exploring his feelings about this.

[close]

Spoiler alert

Begbie's stab at redemption with his son just doesn't ring true at all. He reads Spud's story about them meeting alcoholic Begbie Sr, and suddenly he's full of remorse for how he's treated his own son. I can accept that Begbie turned into a psychopath because of his harrowing, violent upbringing, but that complex notion requires more than the glib treatment it receives in the film.

Mind you, I'm glad they didn't attempt to redeem Begbie completely, as that would've been a complete cop-out. For a fleeting moment towards the end, I thought he was going to snap out of his psychotic revenge fury and free Renton from the noose. I was actually relieved when he did nothing of the sort. I thought they played that moment really well, so in that sense the previous scene with Begbie and his son  worked as a piece of misdirection - having been shown that Begbie is capable of expressing some sort of crude empathy, perhaps he wouldn't murder Renton after all?

[close]

I did enjoy the film. Boyle remains one of the few directors capable of employing stylised techniques to service the story, unlike most of his all flash, no substance imitators. I also found it quite poignant/depressing, especially when it didn't flinch from reminding the audience who loved the first film that we'll all be dead soon.

The underlying theme of old friends trying desperately to recapture their youth made an impact without being overplayed - several reviews have suggested that this aspect is more overt than it is.

Also,

Spoiler alert

I liked the fact that Renton tried to cynically exploit the lure of nostalgia when Begbie was about to crack his skull open with a sledgehammer. Moments like that were why Spud being revealed as the successful author of Trainspotting didn't feel sentimental or self-indulgent. It felt earned.

After two hours of watching admittedly entertaining arseholes repeatedly refusing to accept middle-age and the rank hollowness of nostalgia, it was heartening to see the one genuinely decent and sensitive member of the gang move on with his life.

[close]

Spoiler alert

The final scene in which Renton came home and hugged his dad was moving without being gratuitous. It quietly summed up the theme of regret and attempted reconciliation far more effectively than the aforementioned scene with Begbie and his son.

[close]

Apologies for the rambling post, but I've just returned from seeing the film Trainspotting 2 (I'm not calling it T2, that's a Schwarzenegger film). 

   

[Default to the negative]

Spoiler alert

As mentioned on the previous page, what's the deal with Renton suddenly deciding to shoot heroin with Sickboy?

[close]

This is set up when they are at Tommy's 'memorial'. Sick Boy and Renton trade barbs, reminding each other of their worst deeds. Tommy's first hit, the dead baby. Renton ends the conversation by saying, "How do you keep the lid on that?"

Cut to the heroin scene.

[Dead Soon]

Spoiler alert

As mentioned on the previous page, what's the deal with Renton suddenly deciding to shoot heroin with Sickboy?

[close]

I'm not entirely convinced that this wasn't a dream sequence. There's no basis to that

Spoiler alert

other than a possible Spud hallucination

[close]

, but I can't think why it was never otherwise referenced or dwelled upon.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Spoiler alert

This is set up when they are at Tommy's 'memorial'. Sick Boy and Renton trade barbs, reminding each other of their worst deeds. Tommy's first hit, the dead baby. Renton ends the conversation by saying, "How do you keep the lid on that?"

Cut to the heroin scene.

[close]

Okay, I didn't pick up on that. I heard those lines of dialogue, obviously, but I didn't view them as

Spoiler alert

a trigger for Renton's apparently sudden decision to take heroin again

[close]

.

I'm not entirely convinced that this wasn't a dream sequence. There's no basis to that

Spoiler alert

other than a possible Spud hallucination

[close]

, but I can't think why it was never otherwise referenced or dwelled upon.

That's what I thought at first. The way it was shot,

Spoiler alert

with Spud lurking nervously on the sidelines, made it look as though he, Spud, was having a nightmare about his own withdrawal mixed with memories of his old friends shooting heroin. That would feed into the film's basic theme of nostalgia being a poisonous construct

[close]

.

[Default to the negative]

Okay, I didn't pick up on that. I heard those lines of dialogue, obviously, but I didn't view them as

Spoiler alert

a trigger for Renton's apparently sudden decision to take heroin again

[close]

.

I think it makes sense. The damning things they bring up to each other are things they were both complicit in. Renton never lifted a finger to help the baby and Sick Boy did nothing to help Tommy. The guilt is shared both ways, in each instance.

[Thursday]

Saw this Earlier.

My cinema had to restart it after 10 minutes because some tory cunt had obviously gone and requested that they have subtitles. Making the rest of us have to put up with subtitles we didn't need. I must get out of Kingston upon Thames immediately.


Anyway did very much enjoy the film, but it did also feel slightly empty to me. I mean it's obviously not going to compare to something that has the cultural significance of the original, but it definitely did just seem like something that exists to trade off nostalgia for the original not much more meaning and depth to it beyond that, apart from some individual scenes perhaps. And that's fine really, enjoyable, but not a film I'll think about much again.

[Custard]

I will write more thoughts later, but I'm another who really enjoyed it.

Some bits were a bit clunky, but overall it was a lot of fun. I was surprised at how funny it was too

I found it interesting that it was a film clearly doused in nostalgia, yet at the same time constantly stating that nostalgia is an empty waste of time

The cast were brilliant, and the young lady newcomer was excellent too. Loved the little nods to the original, and I agree with others that that never went too far

Overall I'd say it's a very fun and worthy sequel, and I'm looking forward to seeing it again

[Large Noise]

Didnt like it.

[Large Noise]

Now I've time to elaborate:

Spoiler alert

There were several things that bothered me.

1) Begbie. It's 10 years since I read the book and I can recall next to nothing about it, but I'm reliably informed that it fleshes out Begbie's character somewhat. Regardless, the Begbie of T1 is a cartoon character with no emotional depth. So when T2 tries to make him 3 dimensional and have him carry some of the weight of the story, I just didn't think it worked. Begbie was never supposed to be a feasible 24-hours-a-day person. He's an absurd tornado of violence that flits in and out of the first film. He's not capable of carrying a backstory.

See at the end of the first film, when Renton says "Begbie: I couldn't give a shit about him." There's a reason why he didn't need to explain that to the audience.

This is the same mistake (strange comparison I know) that Anchorman 2 made when it gave Brick Tambland a relationship and and narrative of his own.

2) But they needed to do that to inject some jeopardy into the lives of characters who're impossible to care about.

T1 is a heightened world full of vacuous characters. Sick Boy and Begbie are two different types of sociopath, and Spud is an incorrigible idiot. Renton has a bit of emotional depth but he's still a cunt. Not pathological, just cynical. The thing is, while they're young and cool and interesting, they're worth spending time with. They're dynamic, and they're living in a world that seems to consist entirely of "maddest night of my life",which is why it's narrated in the past tense and has that fantastical element.

But these characters aren't worth growing old with. They're only interesting while they're living in the T1 universe, and the whole point of the T1 universe is that it's young people choosing to live fast. They talk shite and they don't do anything worthwhile, which is perfectly entertaining, but it's nothing to revisit 20 years hence.

Which brings me to 3) Spud. There's a line in T2 where Spud reflects on how surprising it is that he didn't go the way of Tommy. Now, I know that there are plenty of junkies who either turn it around or somehow go on living for decades. But it's made quite clear in T1 that Spud isn't one of them. He's lying in a gutter when Renton leaves Edinburgh. He gets jailed when Renton gets off. He literally shits the bed. He's too drunk to fuck. He gets his hand cut open by Begbie and doesn't get to go to the hospital. Things don't work out alright for Spud. The idea that he got his life together for a while just doesn't wash, and the idea that he redeems himself by writing about The Gang is just berserk. Especially since Renton is the fucking narrator in the first one.

4) Veronika. Renton asks Sick Boy why he's in a loveless, sexless relationship with Veronika. The answer: "We needed a hot burd to get her baps out in this film and Kelly MacDonald is pushing 40 and above that shit now."

5) Other things:

There's no fucking way Begbie can successfully chase Renton through the streets given that he's obviously not run the length of himself in 20 years and Renton runs recreationally. Yes, Renton's had a heart problem, but he's shown running up Arthur's Seat after that. Even when Begbie catches up to Renton in the carpark, it's clear that if Renton just turns and legs it he'll have no fucking chance of catching him. Instead he does that pointless thing of grabbing a hold of the car, just so they can recreate the scene from the first one.

When Veronika asks Renton why Sick Boy says "Choose Life", it's just to tee him up for that pointless rant. Some of it's alright, but the stuff about Instagram etc. feels shoehorned in to make it relevant. 46 y/o Mark Renton isn't angry about people taking photos of food. And if he is... so fuck.

When Renton's being garotted by the cable, I really didn't care very much whether he snuffed it or not. Either he was going to die or Begbie would somehow be foiled, and the film would end. In fact, there'd probably have been more of a payoff if Begbie took Renton out and returned to his family. Though that scenario may have jeopardised his kid's career in hotel management.

Begbie goes to nightclub and pulls a girl half his age. Naw.

There were a bunch of other things too.

[close]

Everyone I've spoken to liked it a lot. Everyone I saw it with, everyone else, everyone.

Maybe I built it up too much, but I think this is going to go the way of Be Here Now; the rave reviews will seem strange in a couple of years.

[Thursday]

Main thing that bothered ME plot logic-wise, was - wouldn't the police just go straight to Begbie's family home, when it's immediately reported that he's escaped? Like he doesn't even make an effort to hide or anything.

[mobias]

Fleshing out Begbie's character was definitely paving the way for him having his own stand alone movie based on Irvine Welsh's Blade Artist book. They've all talked about that being on the cards.  I somewhat agree that Begbie's finding his soul near the end of T2 seemed rather crowbarred in there (like a few other plot elements in the movie) but you've got to be forgiving I think because there is only so much you can do in a 2 hour movie.

One of the reasons I enjoyed T2 is that it did flesh out the characters and it gave them all a bit more story. Thats why I came out of it genuinely thinking that the first Trainspotting felt like a prequel to T2 rather the second merely being a sequel to the first. The first movie is cartoony, heavily stylised and emotionally vacuous. The second has a lot more weight and substance to it. I fucking loved Ewan Bremner's Spud in T2. What a performance. He's really the heart and soul of the film. Something the first film always lacked.

I really want to see T2 again, something which I haven't felt after going to see a movie at the cinema for bloody ages. So it must have done something right. Its one of the better movie sequels out there for sure.   

Main thing that bothered plot logic-wise, was - wouldn't the police just go straight to Begbie's family home, when it's immediately reported that he's escaped? Like he doesn't even make an effort to hide or anything.

Yeah I wondered that but maybe they didn't know he was married or whatever. Its one of those things in the movies its probably best not to worry about too much.

[Custard]

RE - Begbie hiding at the family home

Yeah, that made no sense. But I did wonder whether it was a secret family only he knew about. Did he actually call her his wife?

[Pit-Pat]

Saw this Earlier.

My cinema had to restart it after 10 minutes because some tory cunt had obviously gone and requested that they have subtitles. Making the rest of us have to put up with subtitles we didn't need. I must get out of Kingston upon Thames immediately.

How bizarre, I just saw it and it had subtitles for me too. Never occurred to me it was because people might find it incomprehensible - I assumed I'd just accidentally gone to a hard-of-hearing screening.

I liked it - one of the friends I was with commented that it was basically The Force Awakens for Trainspotting but it felt like a necessary revisiting to me, in a way that TFA didn't. I'd definitely be keen to see a director's cut though, or at least find out what happened in the other 60% of that footage.

[momatt]

Saw this last night.  It was bloody hilarious in places.  Much funnier than the original.  Though very sad too.
I was worried it might be too nostalgic.  But they get away with it as the film is sort of about nostalgia as well.
I give it 4.5 bags of popcorn and a big bag of skag.

The one thing that didn't sit right was the timing.  The first film is set in the late 70s, early 80s I think.  So this film should be set around the millennium.  But it was about now, with lots of references to Snapchat and Twitter.
I can easily forgive it though.

Aye - the worst bit of the whole film, with

Spoiler alert

Terminator Begbie, doing a Shining through the wall*

[close]

*(foreshadowed by the

Spoiler alert

Shining carpet pattern

[close]

showing up earlier in the film)

Didn't notice that!  Love that carpet design.

I liked the little references to Tommy.  Like the blonde curly haired kid playing fooball at the beginning.

My cinema had to restart it after 10 minutes because some tory cunt had obviously gone and requested that they have subtitles. Making the rest of us have to put up with subtitles we didn't need.

This is hilarious!

[worldsgreatestsinner]

It'd have to be later than that, I think, just solely because of the focus on HIV in the film. It feels like it would need to be late 80s/90s, also the appearance of Dale Winton, seemingly playing himself, would put it later than that. Don't they also talk about Connery winning the Oscar for The Untouchables? If so, that win would have been in early 88, meaning it has to be set after that.

[momatt]

It'd have to be later than that, I think, just solely because of the focus on HIV in the film. It feels like it would need to be late 80s/90s, also the appearance of Dale Winton, seemingly playing himself, would put it later than that. Don't they also talk about Connery winning the Oscar for The Untouchables? If so, that win would have been in early 88, meaning it has to be set after that.

Hmm, maybe I was thinking of the book?  The clothes and music they're into is all a bit 70s, but maybe they're just stuck in the past?
It's all very cartoony so I can forgive it.  Didn't spoil it at all.

[mobias]

If you really want to pick holes in the movie as fas as improbability goes the biggest one is Sick Boy and Renton getting 100 grand from the Scottish government seemingly just like that for their Leith harbour rejuvenation project scam. But thats if you really want to pick holes and ruin it for yourself.

[thraxx]

Hmm, maybe I was thinking of the book?  The clothes and music they're into is all a bit 70s, but maybe they're just stuck in the past?
It's all very cartoony so I can forgive it.  Didn't spoil it at all.

I'm fascinated by the book of trainspotting and once went to the trouble of researching all the real world waypoints in it against actual events: hibs vs hearts games, iggy pop gigs in glasgow etc...  The book is essentially set over several years from about 87 to 89 i worked out and that the characters are about 24 - 26, but if you do the same thing with porno, you can work out that the characters in porno should be about 5 years older than the book says they are for when that is set. I liked Porno, but that reall bugged me about it.

[momatt]

Ha ha, well yes.  This kind of film is clearly not meant to be too realistic and serious.  It's more impressionistic.  The time period was just something that occurred to me whilst I watched it and just wondered what others thought.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

If you really want to pick holes in the movie as fas as improbability goes the biggest one is Sick Boy and Renton getting 100 grand from the Scottish government seemingly just like that for their Leith harbour rejuvenation project scam. But thats if you really want to pick holes and ruin it for yourself.

I took that as a broad satirical swipe at any old twat with an over-confident grasp of bullshit buzzwords getting a government grant from clueless politicians. Renton and Sickboy stressed that it was something vital for the community and its heritage, which is basically all these people want to hear, regardless of practicality.

[Ray Travez]

Especially since Renton is the fucking narrator in the first one.

I'd always assumed that Renton was by-and-large Welsh- some of the autobiographical details match up- moves to London, makes money in property, goes to live in Amsterdam...

There were a lot of things that didn't add up in the film, and it bothered me. Most of them have been mentioned, so I'll throw in a couple that might not have been-

Spoiler alert

Despite being incarcerated for 20 years as a dangerous nutjob, Begbie enters a meeting with his parole officer without guards and uncuffed?
(Nice to see him occasionally disguise himself as Limmy's "He got a reaction out of you" character)

[close]

Spoiler alert

Renton's life in Amsterdam completely falls apart overnight; he loses his job (or rather, decides that he probably might lose his job), his partner leaves him, and he is presumably no longer interested in his friends or anything else he spent 20 years building up, preferring to fuck about in Leith towerblocks with Spud and Sick Boy instead for the rest of all time.

[close]

Spoiler alert

Begbie steals some viagra, but instead of going home to bang his missus, like he's been trying to since the start of the movie, he goes and hangs out in a night club?!

[close]

They made Spud into a cartoon. I didn't like that.

Spoiler alert

I don't know what Veronika is there for. Mostly to prop up or fuck the guys it seemed. The bit at the end where she 'does a Renton' was laughable to me. Carnt be arsed to write an ending, let's use the same one as last time and call it 'ironic' or something.

[close]

Sort of disappointing, though enjoyable in places. Seemed a bit like a fairytale to me (with Begbie as the Big Bad Wolf); I would have preferred something a bit more real. Ultimately inconsequential. As Chrissiebrmc said to me afterwards- I'm glad I saw it; I'm glad I only paid three quid.

[Repeater]

I think Veronica is there to give voice to the audience, think of when she's laughing at Renton and Simon reminiscing about the past...

Went to see it again today, still enjoyed it, loved a lot of the visual tricks. Have to say, it turned into a bit of a slapstick comedy from the club scene onwards.

[Wet Blanket]

Another one that stuck out to me is at the end where Renton tries to appeal to Begbie's sentimental side - he reminds him of when they met at school as six year olds, only Begbie was a "bit older" because he'd been "held back a year".

At Primary School? A six or seven year old is hardly at risk of failing his A-levels is he? I know the Scottish system is different to England though (where I'm pretty sure being held back isn't a thing, even in big school). So maybe that's legit.

I also don't think a man like Begbie would go to a trendy nightclub on the pull. He'd be down some frightening working men's club or flat-roofed boozer.

[worldsgreatestsinner]

I was in school in the 80s and there were three boys who had been held back a year, I think around the age of 8/9, so it definitely used to be a thing in Wales at least.

I do realise I've made it sound like I went to a really thick school.

[mobias]

I also don't think a man like Begbie would go to a trendy nightclub on the pull. He'd be down some frightening working men's club or flat-roofed boozer.

I don't know about that. I've met some Begbie's out clubbing in the Cowgate, the area where they were, in my time.

[Wet Blanket]

I was in school in the 80s and there were three boys who had been held back a year, I think around the age of 8/9, so it definitely used to be a thing in Wales at least.

I do realise I've made it sound like I went to a really thick school.

Oh well, fair enough then.

I don't know about that. I've met some Begbie's out clubbing in the Cowgate, the area where they were, in my time.

Yeah but 50-odd year old Begbies, out on their own?

[mobias]

Yeah but 50-odd year old Begbies, out on their own?

I thought he was out clubbing with Sick Boy or Sick boy had invited him out knowing that he would bump into Renton in the club at some point? It was a contrived meeting.