Tarantino's Final Film - 'The Movie Critic'

[Timothy]

Once Upon a Time and Hateful Eight were great imo.

[Minami Minegishi]

I think over-rated is a decent description even if you like his films. Django absolutely does not hold up for me, as does Basterds outside of two or three excellent set-pieces.

The Hateful 8 on the other hand has everything I need for a Tarantino film. It's a tighter chamber piece like Dogs, with nice performances and some amazing Morricone scored opening snow scenes that remind me of 70s films by Cimino and Malick.

[madhair60]

i think over-rated is the stupidest, most meaningless description almost anyone could ever give anything

[Pavlov`s Dog`s Dad`s Dead]

i think over-rated is the stupidest, most meaningless description almost anyone could ever give anything

I quite agree. There's not anywhere like as much value in that term as many people claim.

[madhair60]

not having a pop you must understand. i just think when people say "over-rated" they're basically saying they don't like it and it annoys them that people like it, and that's quite irrational (but not unusual to think) so it's understandable that it's couched as "over-rated". i dunno.

[non capisco]

I can't help but hear it in Trump's voice now. "They tell me he's very overrated."

[Minami Minegishi]

not having a pop you must understand. i just think when people say "over-rated" they're basically saying they don't like it and it annoys them that people like it, and that's quite irrational (but not unusual to think) so it's understandable that it's couched as "over-rated". i dunno.

I didn't take it as a pop at all. There was too much hyperbole in your post. I think it's an entirely appropriate way to describe Tarantino, especially when he is hailed for his originality. That's not a pop at Tarantino.

[13 schoolyards]

For mine Tarantino's been a pretty consistent film-maker. I think what he brings to his films that's original is his point of view - even when he's clearly ripping off other films, the end result always feels like a Tarantino film. He's a strong personality and it comes through in his films is probably a good way to put it - he's not a director that takes a back seat to his material.

There are some of his films I like more than others, but he's not a director who's made a wide variety of films or even focused on two or three clearly different kinds of film (like you could argue directors like Scorsese and Spielberg have done across their careers).

The Hateful Eight and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood are very different films in some ways but they're both clearly Tarantino films, and when other directors try to make a Tarantino film it's usually pretty obvious what they're up to. Wrapping things up with ten films makes a lot of sense - he's not varied enough as a director to find new things to talk about, and with a body of work that's so similar each film is always going to be compared to the others (in a way you wouldn't compare Jaws with Meet the Fablemans or Mean Streets with Kundun) so it's going to be obvious once he starts going downhill

[gotmilk]

Calling him overrated is utterly meaningless. I like him as much as I like him, others like him as much as they like him. He is rated exactly as highly as people regard him, and when you say he is overrated you are merely saying that you personally do not like his work as much as some other people.  Banal.

[Magnum Valentino]

not having a pop you must understand. i just think when people say "over-rated" they're basically saying they don't like it and it annoys them that people like it, and that's quite irrational (but not unusual to think) so it's understandable that it's couched as "over-rated". i dunno.

I'll take it a step further, it's an assertion by the user that they think less people should like the thing they dislike. "Under rated" makes sense because great work sometimes falls into cracks but "over rated" translates, to me, as "I think too many people like this".

You fucking WHAT?

[Blumf]

I can't help but think that he's a master thief, able to put together a number of great films which steal ideas (or entire scenes) from other, obscurer movies.

At heart he's a film nerd, and his output is basically gushing over his favorite films.

Hopefully, his mainstream popularity has led to more people picking up on his influences and discovering interesting stuff. I expect there're a fair few film buffs today who got thier start with Tarantino.

[Minami Minegishi]

Working at as a co-programmer for a film festival in the early 00s where watching hundreds or even thousands of films per year really fucks with critical calibration gives you a very different understanding of the term 'over-rated.'

It's where mediocre films that audiences quickly forget get critically fêted in the most artificial of environments. I have been guilty of doing it myself. It's almost impossible not to.

Being over-rated for me is all about context and helps me have a more rational approach to over-hyped films.

[Minami Minegishi]

I'll take it a step further, it's an assertion by the user that they think less people should like the thing they dislike. "Under rated" makes sense because great work sometimes falls into cracks but "over rated" translates, to me, as "I think too many people like this".

You fucking WHAT?

I use in the context of film critics (my colleagues) rather than punters.

[Magnum Valentino]

Changes nothing.

[Minami Minegishi]

Changes nothing.

Arms crossed.

[Magnum Valentino]

I also have my eyes closed and head is turned to the side and upwards.

[Small Man Big Horse]

i think Death Proof is pretty alright

It's the one film of his I've not actually seen, but I probably should rectify that at some point soon.

i love Kill bill also (sorry)

I loved Volume One a huge amount, but went in to volume two presuming it would be more of the same and was enormously disappointed. But again it's a film I probably should rewatch as with altered expectations I might like it a more.

At heart he's a film nerd, and his output is basically gushing over his favorite films.

Hopefully, his mainstream popularity has led to more people picking up on his influences and discovering interesting stuff. I expect there're a fair few film buffs today who got thier start with Tarantino.

Both of those are very good points, and with the latter I'm sure it's very true as well.

On the "overrated" front, I think those who don't like the term are absolutely right, and I shouldn't have used it, because who am I to suggest he is or isn't a great director. I think a better way of (trying) to explain what I meant is that a certain element of his fanbase think he's created the greatest films of all time, and won't hear a word against him and I suppose I feel slightly frustrated that they're not particularly interested in the work of the directors who inspired him, or that their are other directors who make films that are equally as good. But again I guess there's a slightly snobbish element in my thinking that of them, and they're not harming anyone or anything by loving his work so much so why should it bother me.

Um, in short, I guess I have a lot of mixed feelings about his work, but really shouldn't be concerned as how others find it.

[madhair60]

I think if you watch Kill Bill as kind of a whole thing it's fucking ace, I love it. Vol 2 is my favourite, I love all the Pai Mei shit

[Lord Mandrake]

Love all his films including Death Proof, everything he puts onscreen is a treat some people are just ungrateful.

[Minami Minegishi]

Love all his films including Death Proof, everything he puts onscreen is a treat some people are just ungrateful.

Like I've always said, the guy is seriously under-rated.

[Waking Life]

I can see how 'overrated' can be deployed as a sneering / lazy criticism for dismissing anything well received, but it's also fine as an (obviously) subjective opinion against a backdrop of collective hype (basically, I like it, not a lot, but I like it). Lisztomania / Brad Goodman. Best Picture Oscar winners are often 'overrated' in that regard, before later reappraisals post-marketing. Arguably, 'overhyped' is a better term in that context, but splitting hairs.

On topic, I generally enjoy Tarantino films. His films still feel very singular, despite borrowing liberally from others. Kill Bill (as a collective) left me cold - I even prefer Death Proof (underrated obviously) - but I'm usually entertained throughout his films. I'm not sure I'd rewatch most of them (except his earlier, funnier, ones) - one and done for me. He's very focused on this body of work concept, although I'm not sure it makes a difference legacy-wise anymore. I'd be interested if he did take on a TV show to see if he would even try for a longer form narrative, or if it'd be 12 episodes of talking.

[Dr Rock]

I think a better way of (trying) to explain what I meant is that a certain element of his fanbase think he's created the greatest films of all time, and won't hear a word against him and I suppose I feel slightly frustrated that they're not particularly interested in the work of the directors who inspired him, or that their are other directors who make films that are equally as good. But again I guess there's a slightly snobbish element in my thinking that of them, and they're not harming anyone or anything by loving his work so much so why should it bother me.

I'm aware of this putative contingent of his fan-base, but do they really exist in great numbers? Or are they somewhat mythic?

[Small Man Big Horse]

I'm aware of this putative contingent of his fan-base, but do they really exist in great numbers?

Yes.

[Dr Rock]

Oh ok, fair enough.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I like Tarantino's work for the most part, but I don't think I've ever hated a film quite as much as Death Proof.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Oh ok, fair enough.

I thought with that amount of evidence I'd easily win the argument!

On a (slightly) more serious note I do come across some Tarantino fans of that level in the comments section of some US sites (rather than UK based ones), and a couple of Reddit subforums as well, but I may well be overstating just how many there are.

[Dr Rock]

'How many self-proclaimed 'Tarantino fans' have seen more than three films from the seventies'?'

I'd like the answer to that. Clearly some, maybe a lot..

[13 schoolyards]

I've met a few film buffs who seem to have reasonable and balanced views on just about every other film maker but are massive 100% ride or die Tarantino fans. But they're mostly of an age where Tarantino was pretty much their gateway drug to seeing film as an artform with a history and a past worth exploring (and exploiting).

A lot of them have seen more than three films from the 70s, but you know, once you've seen Star Wars, Jaws and The Godfather, what more is there?

Also, they're always male - I'm sure I must have met some female Tarantino fans, but I can't remember any. I do remember getting into a big fight with a (female) professional film critic I was dating when Kill Bill vol.1 came out. She loathed it and said it was nothing but a collection of ripped-off scenes and influences, I said maybe that was the point and the idea was to recontexualise those moments within an individual's perspective.

No wonder she dumped me a few months later - I should have just said chopping off limbs was cool as fuck.

[Magnum Valentino]

My wife really likes QT and has strong opinions on which of his films are good and which are shit.

I'd like to throw my hat in the ring as another Death Proof fan. Kurt Russell in that film is one of my favourite things to watch that anyone's ever shot.

I also think Tarantino is brilliant at capturing moments in time - the night out in the first half of Death Proof and the bar sequence in Basterds are examples of this. They're very believably realised set pieces.

But anyway, Kurt "I'm afraid you're gonna have to start gettin scared...immediately" Russell fucking rules.

On the subject of pastiche I think that Rodriguez clearly went more for the obvious tone of grindhouse cinema, and his film is much more fun, but Tarantino turned in something that feels more authentic in how it feels like it does a lot wrong, like so many of the less carefully mandated/edited films of grindhouse must (by their very classification as such). It's a fucking weird film, which is why it would have ended up showing where it would have played (if it were "real").

[Lord Mandrake]

^ Yes, I enjoyed Planet Terror and the fake adverts but Tarantino's film felt authentic in abstract ways, not just dirt or artefacts but the script and the performances and like you say, the weirdness.