The Boy and the Heron (2023, Hayao Miyazaki's latest)

[Mister Six]

Surprised there isn't a thread on this (or unsurprised that modern, shit Google couldn't find it). Anyway, this is the latest from Mr Ghibli himself:

A young lad grieving the loss of his mum must venture into a magical land to save his stepmother. That's the plot, basically. The rest of it is yer usual Miyazaki fantasia: old ladies with big warts on their faces, cute little floaty things, spooky monsters that look like animals and animals that look like spooky monsters, and an army twat.

Which isn't to say it's bad at all! In fact, I pretty much loved it, and I've had a mixed history with Ghibli up to now (loved Totoro, Kiki, Spirited Away; didn't gel with Ponyo, Laputa, Howl's Moving Castle). It's maybe a little too long and loose, and seems to get lost in its own mythology (and after some neat experimental-ish animation during a dramatic scene at the start, falls into the usual Miyazaki style), but if you're up for the usual gorgeously thoughtful and detailed animation, along with a cavalcade of wonders and oddities, it'll certainly scratch that itch.

[The Mollusk]

Ponyo and Howl's Moving Asshole are both good (and visually gorgeous) but overrated IMO.

Anyway I'm dying to see this, it looks awesome. Hacked off that my sister in law got to see it like two weeks ago when it was released in Sweden and I will never let her forget it.

[Vodkafone]

I enjoyed this. The story is not atypical Miyazaki and it doesn't break new ground, but the art and animation is just gorgeous, as usual. There are some particularly fluid segments of animation in this that work really well (the heron swooping through the veranda at the start, for example) and some panels, like the first shot of the house, that are so beautiful they made me ache. I love the way he uses the colour green in his films and there is loads of it here. It's great just to look at. Possibly his last film as well, he is 72 now.

[The Mollusk]

Saw this last night and thought it was largely excellent. Stunning animation and easily one of Ghibli's most ambitious and epic tales. It pulls a fair bit thematically from their other films, particularly Howl's Moving Castle, which some might gripe about but I enjoyed this a lot more than HMC so wasn't too arsed.

Every character is so bursting with personality and quirks, so despite things moving at a fairly brisk pace I found most scenes a joy to watch. The balance of drama, fantasy and humour was pretty much spot on as well. The parakeets had me laughing so much, so many things to enjoy about them and in general Miyazaki's unique exaggeration of the way we perceive and anthropomorphise animals was as brilliant as ever. Big splats of bird shit all over the place, not mentioned once by anyone and yet it's not unnecessary at all. Birds shit everywhere all the time after all.

A couple of issues I had with it: firstly despite cramming so much into its 2 hour runtime I did think the pacing was a little off in a few scenes. There was a fair bit of very blunt "this happened" and "this is what's happening" which clunked and detracted a little from the otherwise typically dreamlike and gorgeous flow of things. In a similar vein it almost felt like a film stretching beyond the boundaries of a Ghibli feature at times, like it was reaching a bit further stylistically (I noticed Hisaishi's soundtrack was pretty uncharacteristic in a couple of scenes). It's hard to explain this and I'm not really sure if it had a negative effect on me or not. Either way I'm greatly looking forward to watching it again.

Overall I thought it was great, and easily the studio's strongest effort in many years. A fuckin epic odyssey and a beautifully handled depiction of processing grief through the eyes of an adolescent.

[Pavlov`s Dog`s Dad`s Dead]

It sounds absurd written down, I realise, but that scene of the two parakeet footsoldiers overcome with emotion at witnessing parakeet paradise will linger with me a long time.

My kids are way smarter than me - a low bar, granted - and they picked up on the meta-text of an old creator wanting a blood relative to continue his work, and being initially incredulous that the latter might prefer to remain in the real world. Has Hayao made his peace with the prospect of Ghibli ceasing to exist as a going concern, and with Goro keeping his distance?

ETA I realise I'm not seeing the wood for the trees, here. It's a very satisfying cinematic experience all told, even if tinged with sadness at the knowledge that it may well be Miyazaki senior's and Ghibli's last offering. It's not a bad note to go out on, if so.

[buzby]

Possibly his last film as well, he is 72 now.

Miyazaki is 82.

He has been saying each film would be his last for a while, but I think it might be for real this time, as he sold his controlling stake in Ghibli to Nippon TV last year after failing to find a successor. He either didn't think Goro was up to the job, or after being publically burned by his father Goro decided he didn't want it - he is now in charge of their theme park, which fits his previous role as a landscape gardener, and has moved into directing CG animation.

The film is autobiographical for Miyazaki - his father was a director of aircraft factory during WW2 and as a child his family was evacuated to the countryside due to their city being bombed. Although his mother didn't die, she had spinal TB so spent long periods away in hospital during his childhood.

The Japanese title of the film is Kimi-tachi wa Dō Ikiru ka (How Do You Live?), which is the name of the book that is an important plot point in the film (it is a real book, first published in 1937 and regarded as a classic in Japanese children's literature and was Miyazaki's favourite book as a child).  I'm not sure why the title was changed for overseas audiences.

My kids are way smarter than me - a low bar, granted - and they picked up on the meta-text of an old creator wanting a blood relative to continue his work, and being initially incredulous that the latter might prefer to remain in the real world. Has Hayao made his peace with the prospect of Ghibli ceasing to exist as a going concern, and with Goro keeping his distance?

Spoiler alert

That is pretty much the overarching theme of the film - the tired old wizard (a man who spent too much time reading stories and disappeared into a fantasy world of his own making) at the end of his time looking for a successor among his descendants (Mahito, Natsuko and/or her unborn baby, and Himi the fire maiden, a.k.a. Mahito's mother Hisako when she was still a girl) by calling them to the tower. He offers them the chance to rebuild his world in their own image if they decide to stay there, but all turn him down as they have stronger attachment to the real world and the wizard's world collapses, leaving nothing behind. It's a pretty clear allegory for how Miyazaki views what has happened to Studio Ghibli, and his failure to find a successor.

[close]

The film also has a lot of visual callbacks to Miyazaki and Ghibli's previous films, which gives it even more of a feel of being a final farewell.

[The Mollusk]

It sounds absurd written down, I realise, but that scene of the two parakeet footsoldiers overcome with emotion at witnessing parakeet paradise will linger with me a long time.

Ha yes that parakeet scene really got to me as well, a suddenly profound moment from such goofy characters/scene. The bit at the end which I won't detail but will just quote - "the king?!" - cracked me up laughing as well.

[The Mollusk]

Miyazaki is 82.

He's 83 actually!! Today!!!!

SLAM DUNK BABY

[buzby]

He's 83 actually!! Today!!!!

SLAM DUNK BABY

So he is. Pretty amazing, considering he smokes like a chimney.

[druss]

Nothing I've seen has led me to believe that Goro would be capable of successfully managing an anime studio although I am only really familiar with his work alongside Shang Tsung.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I've seen it twice in the last few days. Partly due to circumstances, but I was happy to watch it a second time. Had I gone a day earlier, I'd have easily put it in my best films of 2023 list.

I saw the dubbed version, so as not to distracted by subtitles. I thought Christian Bale was a little flat (although I did laugh at his delivery of, "Mahito turned into a little budgie") and his accent seemed to wander, but the rest of the cast were excellent. I knew Pattinson had range, but I would never have recognised it was him voicing the heron - funny, but also genuinely menacing at points.

That last point goes for the whole film. It's impressively surreal and dark feeling. The sort of thing that should lodge itself in children's minds for the rest of their lives. Some bits felt like they'd come from a Panos Cosmatos film or something. The image of the dark room with that bright trapezoidal corridor leading out of it really sticks in my mind for some reason.

If I were forced to make a criticism, I'd say the whole arc between Mahito and Noriko felt undercooked. Her saying she hates him seems to come out of nowhere - if anything, he should be the one saying that to her, thus making it more meaningful when he finally calls her his mother.

That aside, it's top stuff.

[Mister Six]

Her saying she hates him seems to come out of nowhere - if anything, he should be the one saying that to her, thus making it more meaningful when he finally calls her his mother.

Yeah, that threw me. Was she supposed to be under some kind of spell? Did she know she was in a magical world, or was she sedated? It was very odd. But I'll be honest, I was also a bit sleepy and forcing myself not to nod off in spots, so I might have missed something.

My kids are way smarter than me - a low bar, granted - and they picked up on the meta-text of an old creator wanting a blood relative to continue his work, and being initially incredulous that the latter might prefer to remain in the real world.

They're a damn sight smarter than me, too! This observation has made me appreciate the film even more, so thanks to them for that!

[The Mollusk]

Yeah I'm naive as hell, I didn't pick up on that at all either. So to tie that theme in with what I mentioned earlier about processing grief makes me respect and love it even more.

Glad this thread is getting the chat it deserves!

[madhair60]

cunt hasn't put out a decent flick in two decades, he won't be missed

[Cuntbeaks]

Saw the subtitled version earlier today and thought it was excellent. Darkly psychedelic, with just the right amount of menace throughout.

I'm no Ghibli completist, but it felt a lot more adult than anything I've seen before from them, and that's no bad thing. The animation was exceptional and well worth making the effort for.

God bless the Showcase De Lux cinemas, only had two other people in, so decided on the middle of the back row which has now become my favourite seat position. Eyes almost level with the centre of the screen when reclined. Also managed a quick honk of a terpene pen just as it started, which was nice.

[buzby]

If I were forced to make a criticism, I'd say the whole arc between Mahito and Noriko felt undercooked. Her saying she hates him seems to come out of nowhere - if anything, he should be the one saying that to her, thus making it more meaningful when he finally calls her his mother.

When I watched it I noticed some odd actions of Natsuko towards Mahito when they first meet - in the rickshaw on thw way to the house, she gently strokes his cheek and puts his hend on her belly to feel the baby, and when Mahito spies on her and his father kissing when he returns home. In doing a bit of reading round, apparently in the guidebook released in Japan to accompany the film, Miyazaki told the staff working on it that Oedipus was going to be one of the themes of the film.

The birth room where Natsuko is being held captive is in the heart of the meteor that forms the core of the tower, and on the way there

Spoiler alert

Himi says that the energy shocks they are getting are the meteor saying it does not want them there. I think Natsuko was under the meteor's control by that point and it was using her to voice his (and possibly her) subconscious fears to get him to leave. When that doesn't work and Mahito calles her Mother for the first time, it tries to suffocate them both by attacking them with the paper prayers.

[close]

The 'taboo' about Mahito enetering the birth room seems to be a reference to the myth of the goddess Toyotama-hime. It seems particuarly pertinent as in the myth when Toyotama-hime returns to her world after giving birth, she sends her younger sister to take her place in raising her newborn son, and when he comes of age he ends up marrying her (and we are back to Oedipus again).

[Noodle Lizard]

There I was finding it a bit Ghibli-by-numbers. Nothing wrong with that, Ghibli have good numbers, but it was a little disappointing given the hype (Miyazaki's return, 7 years in the making, most expensive Japanese film of all ever etc.) to find that it was almost like a Greatest Hits sort of thing, with a narrative that doesn't do all that much advancing from things like Spirited Away or his last final film, The Tale of Princess Kaguya.

Like I say, though, not bad at all when taken on its own merits. The animation was, predictably, splendid and there were a few sequences which I really enjoyed. And any day I'd take a Ghibli Greatest Hits over Disney's rubbish attempt at the same thing (Wish).

[Mister Six]

his last final film, The Tale of Princess Kaguya

That wasn't Miyazaki!

And any day I'd take a Ghibli Greatest Hits over Disney's rubbish attempt at the same thing (Wish).

That's a really good comparison - both doing greatest hits packages, but one of them is made by an artist with intelligence and soul digging down into his own passions and feelings, and the other one is made by a committee to fit certain story beats and appeal to the broadest possible audience. And which one of those is going to make back its budget...?

[madhair60]

miyaz-hack-i rehashing all his old ideas is it

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

zack snyder so guaranteed to be worth watching tbh

cunt's mental.

[Noodle Lizard]

That wasn't Miyazaki!

You're absolutely right, oops. Came out the same year as his last final film.

[Mister Six]

Yeah, I remember some places having them as a double-bill.

[Memorex MP3]

Why did the other guy even put Goro Miyazaki into the position where he was supposed to be perceived as a successor? It made no sense

[buzby]

Why did the other guy even put Goro Miyazaki into the position where he was supposed to be perceived as a successor? It made no sense

It probably comes from the old tradition in Japanese bunsnesses that one of the current owner's sons would be expected to inherit the business when they stand down or pass away. This even extends to if they had no male heirs, a suitable husband would be sought for the eldest daughter who will then be expected to take on the family name after marriage and become the 'son'. Usually this will involve years of training, work experience and grooming before the handover. However, in Ghibli's case, Goro had not shown any inclination or interest in animation, but that pressure of being the expected hair led him to get involved with the company, initially as designer and director of the Ghibli Museum.

Hayao Miyazaki. had wanted to adapt Earthsea for a long time and tried to obtain the rights in the early 80s, but had been rebuffed by Le Guin as she associated animation with Disney. After Spirited Away won an Oscar, she watched My Neighbour Totoro and some of his other films and became more amenable, but by that time Hayao was aworking on Howl's Moving Castle. Wanting to strike while the iron was hot, Ghibli's president and producer, Toshio Suzuki, did a deal for the rights with Le Guin in 2003, but she was under the impression Hayao would direct it.

Suzuki then got Goro (who had been working for the studio on the Ghibli Museum since 2001) and a small team to start on pre-productiob, with Goro initially as a consultant and then as a storyboard artist. The team included experienced animators Hideaki Anno (Evanglion) and Yasuo Ootsuka (Lupin), and after consulting with them about whether they thought he was capable, Suzuki decided to appoint Goro as director. Hayao thought he was too inexperienced, but Suzuki thought it was worth giving him a chance and overruled him, influenced by seeing Goro win arguments with his father over aspects of the museum. Suzuki also had ulterior motives, in that he was already looking for a potential successor, and at ways to reduce production time and costs such as subcontracting work to overseas animation houses, which Hayao had always resisted (Tales from Earthsea's production took 10 months, roughly  half the time one of Miyazaki Sr's films was then taking).

Suzuki and Hayao then had to travel to Oregon to tell Le Guin that a different Miyazaki to the one she was expecting was going to direct the film, though Hayao was still supposed to have a supervisory role.

However, once production started, there was an immediate falling out between the Miyazakis, and they never spoke for the duration:

In about August of last year, before actual production started, Producer Suzuki told me at an internal Ghibli meeting to say a few words to mark the beginning of production on "Ged", so I said "I will do my best" and at the same time, "When this is over, I want to go back to the Ghibli Museum". I said this to put everybody at ease. When it reached my father's ears, he called me in and said "Are you that half-hearted! Don't build yourself an escape route from the start!". We had a shouting argument, and that was the last time we talked to each other. When we bump into each other at work, whoever notices first just silently gets out of the way.

Hayao then famously walked out during the company preview of Tales From Earthsea after an hour, saying it 'felt like three'. It probably didn't help that, presumably through lack of experience, Goro had integrated elements of his father's 1983 manga The Shuna's Journey into the film, which had similar story elements to Earthsea. Le Guin was also unhappy with aspects of the adaptation.

[Thursday]

Just saw this, I'd be much happier with this being Miyazaki's final film as Wind Rises was probably my least favourite of his films.... and even Ponyo is a bit slight. There's a lot of familiar territory here, but it takes a set-up that feels very "classic children's novel" Ahh boy goes to the countryside during the war and there's a magical bird... but then ahh wait no, the bird is a fucking horrible prick, and it keeps spiraling into something much more unsettling from there.

[Blinder Data]

saw this today. i agree it has a "Ghibli's greatest hits" feel but that doesn't take anything away from the effect. gorgeous animation. full of imagination. loved it. a fitting end, if it turns out to be the case