NHS Clapping

[Dewt]

I am never going to talk to one of his cunt friends.

[Attila]

Actually had no idea this was happening until the whole street started to applaud. Feel a bit of a pariah now.

That was us - had no idea, as after a day of yet more arbitrary, insane directive coming down from my uni's senior management, I try to get off line (and dont' do the social media thang on twitter or facebook or whatever). We were finishing up a late tea and watching an episode of Rome when we could hear people shouting outside, someone blowing a trumpet -- well I could, over the TV.

Me: Mute the TV -- listen.

Him: [oblivious]

Me: MUTE THE TV -- Listen -- what's going on outside, people shouting

Him: Mmph

Me: MUTE THE FUCKING tv ARRUUGGHH

etc.

Later I went out to watch the ISS go over, because I've realised I haven't seen any airplanes lately (and we live near an airport) and it's all felt way too much like the days after 9/11 in that regard.

[EasyToType]

The problem is, there is far too many people with Labour hats on acting like / being sneering cunts. Forget the right wing MSM media - this is massively damaging when it comes to convincing people to come over to the Labour camp

[Zetetic]

I'll be applauding owner-occupiers at 20:00 tonight. You're welcome to join me if you're not too cool to celebrate other people's prudence and moral fortitude.

[David Pielingtonburygrot]

An NHS nurse lives a few doors down from me and the thought of her hearing nothing but stoney silence at 8pm was far more depressing than then prospect of looking a bit of a twat applauding into thin air on my doorstep.

[Dewt]

The problem is, there is far too many people with Labour hats on acting like / being sneering cunts. Forget the right wing MSM media - this is massively damaging when it comes to convincing people to come over to the Labour camp

I don't want them to come over I want them to pass away, dead

[Zetetic]

Jeremy Corbyn did the clapping wrong. :(

[phantom_power]

No, your friends are cunts.

Some of them are, some of them are very nice. Nicer than you certainly

[idunnosomename]

If we all clap hard enough Brexit will reverse and it will be 2012 again huzzah

[greencalx]

This is one of those irritating arguments where both sides have a point.

One the one hand, people are bored, isolated, scared and lacking in agency. This brief communal act about something relatively uncontroversial probably lifted the spirits of some, and is preferable to looting or coughing in the face of paramedics for the lolz.

On the other hand, it is a gesture, nothing more, nothing less. I doubt it will change many people's minds about their attitudes towards properly funding the NHS and the tax increases that would be necessary to achieve that. It also runs the risks becoming a poppy-style thing where the thought police insist that this is something you have to do, with all memory lost of why it was done in the first place, or whether it remains constructive.

There is no contradiction between these points of view.

[Twit 2]

Agree with all that - I'm clapping even.

Still, a lot of cunts out there. They're gonna be cunting on throughout this virus hoo-ha and far beyond too, I suspect.

[bgmnts]

Some people seem to be under the misapprehension that voting Tory means you hate the NHS or don't care about it at best. This is bollocks. Most people I know who voted Tory simply didn't believe what was being said about them selling it off and degrading it. Lots of people don't see the cause and effect of what they see on the news about the NHS struggling and the government in power.

Thick cunts then.

Also I dont think cynicism is as bad as blind panic and oh my god we're all going to die are brave heros god save the queen bollocks.

[Dewt]

Some of them are, some of them are very nice. Nicer than you certainly

Oh no somebody who hangs around with cunts thinks I'm not nice

[Buelligan]

I find it sentimental codswallop, For some reason a lot of people seem to revel in sentimental codswallop - i don't understand this and it makes me often feel like a fundamentally different species.[nb]For context, i also find weddings and funerals to be sentimental codswallop, and as a consequence have never been to eiither, including those of immediate family. How's about that for a full-on fucking cunt.[/nb]

Espousing appreciation or admiration for something publicly isn't a bad thing in itself, in fact it can be fucking amazing, but the point should always be - what next?

Singing songs, waving placards, public displays of whatever you call what happened tonight, can all have their place as part of a shared culture of campaigning for something better, working towards something bigger, raising consciousness about a movement or whatever. But as an end in themselves they are black holes, being seen to be doing something in lieu of actually doing it. The respect and appreciation NHS workers need is not applause, it's sufficient PPE, equipment, staffing levels, working hours, remuneration, and having food to buy on the shelves.

The people who fought for something bigger during WWII don't need wheeling out for the cenotaph for one day a year to be told they're respected. Respect is demonstrated in their living conditions for the other 364 days, their care and their dignity. Those who died in WWII aren't respected by people bowing their heads and standing in silence for a couple of minutes, they're respected by fighting to ensure it doesn't repeat itself, by educating present and future generations of the horrors of genocide and war. If people are so attached to the sentimental part that they insist on indulging it, i can't tell them they're wrong for liking it any more than i'm wrong for not liking it, but when you indulge in it without then demanding - and what next? it is pure performative wank.

Not taking part in this is not introducing politics into something that shouldn't be political, because everything is political by default. It's reclaiming the politics from those who want to suggest that mass participation and public engagement should be mollified and neutered into a saccharine hollywood version of changing the world, where fuck all actually changes.

But a lot of people like it. What are you gonna do eh.

You say this and it's a fair point but consider these points -

Bringing people together like this to support the NHS and its workers may have a longer impact.  Many people taking part will remember it as a good thing and a good feeling that they had in a very unpleasant time and this will remain in their minds, perhaps long after this crisis becomes history.  The small seed of solidarity, with the NHS and its workers and the people of the country (irrespective of class, sex, religion or anything else) may sprout and eventually crack the concrete of their tribal woad.  I think that's entirely possible and the cost is what?  Looking a bit uncool?  Putting aside ones cynicism for a few minutes?  Seeming simple?  A fair price, I'd say.  And the point very definitely is What Next?  It's just not obvious.  The what next is making positive connection with people that don't vote Labour so they vote for Labour and the NHS in future.  Getting them to see the NHS as vital.

And I agree, not taking part in this is not introducing politics into something that shouldn't be political.  I agree, everything is political.  And that is why not taking part in this would be presented, framed, as a politically motivated left-wing affront to NHS workers, if the Left embraced that course of action.  It's obvious.  They would say that the Left not taking part in this is introducing politics into something that shouldn't be political.  It doesn't matter if it's true.  They'd say that because it would stick.  It would look unpleasant.  Look at how they presented Corbyn's trips to the cenotaph.  They'll twist anything and the truth doesn't matter.  This is what they do.  So why give them ammunition?

What next is always there.  That's what the whole of Corbyn's tenure has been about.

Edited for spelling :(

[David Pielingtonburygrot]

And I agree, not taking part in this is not introducing politics into something that shouldn't be political.  I agree, everything is political.  And that is why not taking part in this would be presented, framed, as an affront to NHS workers, if the Left embraced that course of action.  It's obvious.  They would say that the Left not taking part in this is introducing politics into something that shouldn't be political.  It doesn't matter if it's true.  They'd say that because it would stick.  It would look unpleasant.  Look at how they presented Corbyn's trips to the cenotaph.  They'll twist anything and the truth doesn't matter.  This is what they do.  So why give them ammunition?

Yes. Although it's fair to portray applauding tories as hypocrites, it's equally absurd for socalists to be closing their windows, folding their arms and proudly proclaiming their lack of solidarity with NHS workers.

[bgmnts]

Not really if you see it as an empty gesture, typifying everything wrong with people in society. Not actually wanting to do anything bar the easy option that makes them feel good.

I don't think it's absurd to feel that way to be honest.

[AllisonSays]

It can mean more than one thing!

[Buelligan]

Not really if you see it as an empty gesture, typifying everything wrong with people in society. Not actually wanting to do anything bar the easy option that makes them feel good.

I don't think it's absurd to feel that way to be honest.

No it's not absurd but what does it do for anyone?

[bgmnts]

Why does a feeling have to do anything for anyone?

[Twit 2]

I'm the best at appreciating nurses.

[David Pielingtonburygrot]

Not really if you see it as an empty gesture, typifying everything wrong with people in society. Not actually wanting to do anything bar the easy option that makes them feel good.

It didn't make me feel good. Like any self-respecting socially inadequate Cabber, it made me feel a bit self-conscious. I tried to override that embarrassment, because I thought that it would make any nearby NHS workers feel appreciated.

[Buelligan]

Why does a feeling have to do anything for anyone?

It doesn't.  But it shouldn't trump all else either.  That's egomania, man.

[Butchers Blind]

When do we stop clapping?  My hands are bleeding.

[idunnosomename]

let's clap for the royal family next. last year was a bit tough for them. they deserve our thanks! hurray for the queen!

[idunnosomename]

big ben must bong for the queen

[bgmnts]

It doesn't.  But it shouldn't trump all else either.  That's egomania, man.

If i'm egomaniacal for thinking people's empty gestures are symptomatic of the real problems in society then I am egomaniacal.

[solidified gruel merchant]

The problem is, there is far too many people with Labour hats on acting like / being sneering cunts. Forget the right wing MSM media - this is massively damaging when it comes to convincing people to come over to the Labour camp

There are far too many people with labour hats on who never miss a chance for a bit of hand wringing and panicking about the 'optics'.
Its the naivety that's gets me. If we dance to their tune for long enough maybe we can one day pick a song?

[phantom_power]

Oh no somebody who hangs around with cunts thinks I'm not nice

I have a feeling I am not the only one

[Cuellar]

Not one single clap from our road, very proud of my neighbours. Parents on whatsapp reported lots of clapping in their Lib Dem stronghold, good for them. When mum asked 'didn't you lead the way?!' I responded with 'ha no - clearly I'm a cynic'. Mum then says 'well the medical staff on the front line deserve our support blah blah blah maybe only clapping but good to show solidarity blah blah blah waffle waffle'. Whatever. Then brother's annoying sycophantic girlfriend, desperate for validation and acceptance chimes in with 'I completely agree'.

Fuck off.

[phantom_power]

If i'm egomaniacal for thinking people's empty gestures are symptomatic of the real problems in society then I am egomaniacal.

Some people only engage in politics on the most surface level, either because they lack the ability or inclination, or some other reason. That doesn't make them bad and it doesn't make what they do an empty gesture. There is politics in the personal as well as at the higher level. NHS staff seeing how appreciated they are is a valid thing to happen. It is a good thing. It may not solve the myriad problems that exist in the health system and the government's dealings with it but on that personal level it means a lot. Who knows, maybe people will remember it when this is all over and put pressure on the government to do better by them. We are living through unprecedented times so I don't think it is easy to predict what the long term response is and that people will revert to type. 

I mean, I am not deluded and there is a good chance that a small gesture is all that it will eventually be but it could be more. Does griping from the sidelines make that next step of progress more or less likely to happen?