copyright and stuff...

[sidecar_jon]

heres the story... i wanted to make a t-shirt useing a quote from the great man himself... "What now for man raised by puffins?" i asked this question on another forum and get jumped on by some lawyers universaly born with a broom handle up their bottoms. They all wanted me to consult one of thier "breed" just for a t-shirt quote... wel lim not going to do that. For one thing id never wittingly place money in such a reptiles pocket. So i googles some stuff and found you lot...and i see Blue jam linkes to  Bitstreams (thanks btw).. is that copyrighted stuff? is every line of any comedy show copyrighted?... how long in Parkherst would i get for a t-shirt?... i own the BBC after all with the licence fee...?...

[El Unicornio, mang]

There's no way you could get sued for using that quote. When I was at college a guy who was a veteran of the illustration scene came in to talk to us and he said that there's a lot of people out there who try to scare folks for copyright infringement when in fact in most cases there's not much they can do about it. Most of his work involved using actual images and stuff taken from other people's work and he never got in trouble.

[Neil]

If it's a T-shirt for your own personal usage, then go for it.  If you're thinking of flogging them then don't bother, it's twatty, and you'll get sued into a black hole in space (hopefully).

[El Unicornio, mang]

Ah yes, I should have added that I meant for personal use. That said, I'm not sure you'd get in trouble for even selling t-shirts with that quote on. Unless the phrase itself has been copyrighted (like 'Just Do It' or 'King of Beers' have been) then I don't know if they have grounds to sue you, although I know that if you publish a book the text is copyrighted. But then, you can't sue someone just because you used the phrase "Then David left the house and got into his car" or whatever first. I'm guessing "What now for man raised by puffins?" isn't a common phrase though...

[sidecar_jon]

well its an interesting point...no i wasnt thinking of selling them... but can a quote be copyrighted?..the net is full of quote sites..do they pay for them?.. Im not thinking of ripping off people just interested really. Isnt a copyright only aplicable if its defended? (hoover have trouble with thier name being made generic and have to defend it all the time)...in fact i quoted the line in my sig..am i guilty already...oh dear i might just be.

[thomasina]

With books you're covered if you acknowledge it and it's not over a certain length.  If it's just one line, i'm not certain you even have to do that.  And you propose to use it as a quote, not to claim it as your own.   I mean you intend people to see it and know where it's from, it would be no fun if everyone thought you just made it up, would it?

Maybe you could credit the quote on the inside of the t-shirt.  Or on the label.

[Crazy Penis]

Copyright applies whether it's defended or not. There doesn't even have to be a copyright notice for something to be copyrighted. Anything you or anyone else writes down is copyrighted the moment it's written.

Hoover have trouble with it's Trademarks. Trademarks are not copyrighted but may need to be defended if the use of a Trademark  can be seen as potentially damaging to the company.

edit:
http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/indetail/basicfacts.htm

link to the UK Patent Office for ya!

[El Unicornio, mang]

. Anything you or anyone else writes down is copyrighted the moment it's written.
!

That can't apply to everything though otherwise new books would never get published because writers would be afraid of getting sued for using identical phrases, which is impossible to avoid.

This is interesting:

Sound recordings are generally protected for 50 years from the year of publication

which means you can use any music released before 1954 and not have to pay any royalties

[gazzyk1ns]

All that applies only if you're selling something (and possibly giving it away), though, surely? If you make yourself a Tshirt with something copyrighted on it, then you're actually spending money on advertising that thing! Someone might see one and want it but... tough shit, they'll have to buy something official because you're not selling it. Either that or do the same thing themselves, spend money on advertising it.

I can't help thinking the original post was a bit of a windup, or tongue-in-cheek post... but either way, as if anyone's ever going to even dream of sueing you for wearing a Tshirt with that on...

[sidecar_jon]

Crazy Penis..ah yes i had it worng.

[Rev]

I suspect that it's technically possible to sue for such a thing, but that any attempt to do so would be laughed out of court, and so nobody would be willing to take the case on in the first place.

[butnut]

. Anything you or anyone else writes down is copyrighted the moment it's written.
!

That can't apply to everything though otherwise new books would never get published because writers would be afraid of getting sued for using identical phrases, which is impossible to avoid.

This is interesting:

Sound recordings are generally protected for 50 years from the year of publication

which means you can use any music released before 1954 and not have to pay any royalties

Hmm, not sure what the distinction here is, but copyright on a writer's or composer's work last for 75 years after their death. I wasn't aware it was different for recordings, but maybe it is.

[sidecar_jon]

gazzyk1ns  no it want a winde up honest... cross my heart and hope to work for a liveing... i thought of makeing a t-shirt then thought of the implications. So it got me thinking and rasied questions.. im just exploring the posibilities. Ive had stuff ive done used without my permision...but as im poor i cant enforce any copyrights i may have aquired. So copyright means nothing to a normal individual.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Hmm, not sure what the distinction here is, but copyright on a writer's or composer's work last for 75 years after their death. I wasn't aware it was different for recordings, but maybe it is.

The copyright lasts for 70 years after their death (in other words, you can copy or cover the music yourself with no royalties to pay) but the actual recording itself can be copied 50 years after publication. Seems kind of odd to me. Does the 'sound recording' mean the original masters, or the original pressings of the record, does it include re-mastered CD versions? Does that mean I can download all of Robert Johnson's work without having to worry about being sued? (He died in 1938 so in 4 years the copyright on his stuff will be gone too)

[butnut]

The copyright lasts for 70 years after their death (in other words, you can copy or cover the music yourself with no royalties to pay) but the actual recording itself can be copied 50 years after publication. Seems kind of odd to me. Does the 'sound recording' mean the original masters, or the original pressings of the record, does it include re-mastered CD versions?

I've no idea!

I'd guess that remastered things probably get copyrighted again, but we need someone like Gazeuse or a lawyer to sort it out.

[El Unicornio, mang]

One of the most ridiculous copyright stories I heard about was Spike Lee suing a cable channel for using the name 'Spike TV' for one of their shows, claiming they were making money from his name.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/spikelee1.html

[Gazeuse]

The copyright lasts for 70 years after their death (in other words, you can copy or cover the music yourself with no royalties to pay) but the actual recording itself can be copied 50 years after publication. Seems kind of odd to me. Does the 'sound recording' mean the original masters, or the original pressings of the record, does it include re-mastered CD versions?

I've no idea!

I'd guess that remastered things probably get copyrighted again, but we need someone like Gazeuse or a lawyer to sort it out.

Hello!!!

I'll look into recorded rights, but in any case, the publishing rights last 70 years after the composer's death, so you'd have to pay royalties for those in any case. Recording rights apply to the original master.

[Crazy Penis]

. Anything you or anyone else writes down is copyrighted the moment it's written.
!

That can't apply to everything though otherwise new books would never get published because writers would be afraid of getting sued for using identical phrases, which is impossible to avoid.

As long as the whole, or a large proportion of a book isn't copied then it would be okay. It would also depend upon whether the 'copier' looks like they are intending to take credit for the phrase.

[Crazy Penis]

Oh, movies are copyrighted for 50 years, If I remember rightly.

edit

Acts that do not infringe copyright
Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree (normally copies of parts of a work) without infringing copyright, these acts are:

Private and research study purposes.
Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.
Criticism and news reporting.
Incidental inclusion.
Copies and lending by librarians.
Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes.
Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as time shifting.
Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program.
Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society.
(Profit making organisations and individuals should obtain a license from the Performing Rights Society.)

from
http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

[Cerys]

"What now for man raised by puffins?"

I thought it was "Where now for man raised by puffins?" ... or did I dream it?

[Vermschneid Mehearties]

Maybe the change from 'what' to 'where' or vice versa can bypass any copyright laws...

[Cerys]

That's what I was thinking.

[Rats]

Just make your own up, I'm sure you can think of something funnier than that and then just say "I like the day today" every fourth step just so people know.

[Cerys]

Don't be rude.  I love the 'puffins' quote.  Although that's probably more because I like puffins than because I like TDT.

[Rats]

I'm not being rude. It doesn't work without the penguin walk so I just assumed he wanted to advertise to people that he liked the day today. I'm only trying to help.

[Cerys]

I'm not being rude. It doesn't work without the penguin walk so I just assumed he wanted to advertise to people that he liked the day today. I'm only trying to help.

Ah, I see - I misunderstood.  I'll let you off, then.

[Purple Tentacle]

If you put "What now..." on your T-shirt you will be taunted and goaded every step you take.

It's "Where now..."

[sidecar_jon]

for some reason that phrase made me laugh out load...just silly and sort of summs up the attitude of "news" programs.. i just got a commison to make a pickled mermaid tho so i might not get round to doing it....

[Vermschneid Mehearties]

Just make your own up, I'm sure you can think of something funnier than that and then just say "I like the day today" every fourth step just so people know.

Now that we've got most of the auld copyright sorted out- is it even the best "headline" from the day today?

I've always been partial to "Bransons clockwork dog crosses atlantic floor", and "are these the real birmingham bombers?"

Goodnight.

[Uncle_Z]

Stick "De minimis non curat lex" on the back of your t-shirt.   S'latin that.  Means "the law does not deal in trifles".  The sentence you are looking at is part of a copyright work blah blah blah but in its own right is not going to benefit from copyright protection.  Just to be clear, that's de minimis, not de Minnie Mouse.

Use of Just Do It etc. is actionable for trademark infringement or possibly passing off, not for copyright infringement.  Assuming nobody has a revenue stream based on this puffin gubbins there will be no cause of action.

/me wanders off to stuff a broom handle back up me arse.