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March 28, 2024, 10:13:29 AM

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Wheesht 17: Alt-right, Alt-right, Glinner's Nearly Alt-Right (Deep Deep Down)

Started by Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse, March 28, 2022, 12:37:09 AM

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Zetetic

Prescriptions for hormones, including puberty blockers, aren't actually made by the Tavistock and Portman Trust and so they don't generally hold the information in a structured format for all the patients that they see.

Requests for a breakdown by age are generally met with a refusal under Section 12 of the FOI Act - i.e. that it would take too much staff time to collate the information from individual free-text records. Yes, this is embarrassingly stupid.

Really, there should be a data set for people on these pathways that isn't so dependent on a single provider holding the information. (This is complicated for a few reasons, not least the historical tendency to refer people across national borders, and each of the four NHSs of the UK having their own reporting arrangements.) (Edit: To be clear, this is something that organisations supportive of medical transition should be demanding as much as anyone else.)

I'm unclear on where the 200 out of 2500 figure ultimately comes from and how it was produced. (I suspect it might be manual notes review in the context of the previous court cases about competency, but I can't remember off the top of by head.) (Edit: Yep. Such a review, of a sample of 312 files, is discussed here and produced an estimate of about 9%.)

greencalx

The "media" might not have access to anything more than the numbers that were quoted.

But it wouldn't occur to most journalists to try and contextualise the numbers because they never do for anything else.

somersetchris

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on April 23, 2022, 06:34:16 PMI think talking about actual numbers is a pretty fruitful avenue you know. Think about that bill in Utah (was it Utah?) to ban trans kids from school sport and the governor (a Republican!) asked...how many kids does this actually affect? And the answer was...one. There was one trans kid playing sport in schools. So he vetoed the bill.

Utah was four, but yeah we're talking tiny numbers of people affected. The Governor vetoed the bill, but his veto was overturned meaning... not much of a veto, is it? So trans kids are banned from girls' teams as I understand it.

It might be Kentucky you're thinking of, introduced a transgender ban which was basically aimed at one kid. The kicker is that she plays hockey, and was responsible for helping the school create a girls' hockey team where there was not one before. So now she has been banned from playing for the team she created, when her parents, the school and her team mates are all behind her. Same thing happened here - governor vetoes the ban, the veto is overturned. You can't help but ask, who is this for? Who does it benefit?

And yet people like Rowling and Linehan must look at this and think yes, this is right. This is the side I want to be on, the right wing fundamentalist Christian Deep South. This is Footloose, and for them Kevin Bacon is the villain.




DreadedScotsman

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on April 23, 2022, 06:31:54 PMWhy can't they (meaning the media) be honest? Why can't they break it down further and say x no [age group] are getting [specific treatment]? If they can't because the clinic isn't keeping proper records, okay, that's a concern. But if they're just choosing not to because LITTLE KIDDIES ON HORMONES, that's scaremongering and transphobic.

Because the UK media is rife with transphobes at a far higher proportion than the rest of society

somersetchris

Quote from: greencalx on April 23, 2022, 07:00:13 PMThe "media" might not have access to anything more than the numbers that were quoted.

But it wouldn't occur to most journalists to try and contextualise the numbers because they never do for anything else.

We have an equalities minister, if they were worth a damn they would have access to this kind of information and be sharing it. It would at least combat the myth that those evil TRAs are going around sterilising children and hacking their bits off because obviously they're not, but that narrative goes uncontested.

Is it still Liz Truss, and isn't she a terf?

Elfking

Trans medical care is woeful. Someone on one of my Discord servers earlier was talking about going to a gender clinic when they were 14. The doctor had them strip and examined their genitals quite a bit, apparently it was common but is being moved away from. Unless you are going for the surgery (which you won't be doing as a child) there is literally no reason for the doctor to be looking at you down there.

The hoops trans people have to go through to get treatment should be considered unlawful. No one should have to fulfil a whole checklist designed to make it as hard as possible to start treatment. For my wife it involved living full time as a woman for a year, coming out to everyone, three appointments with a gender clinic doctor (in Exeter when we are near Portsmouth)and having to answer all the questions just to get on hormones. From telling her GP she was trans to getting hormones for the first time it was probably at least 2-3 years.

My girlfriend (in a poly relationship) had it even worse. They came out as trans at 13. she was never given puberty blockers (though with the awful wait it would've been pointless by the time she got them) and it took her until her mid-20's to get hormones. Why? Because she had mental health issues. Depression, anxiety, agoraphobia... mostly due to the fact that she was trans and being given no support. Those issues don't just go away of course but she has been much, much happier since starting hormones. All those years of increased suffering simply because the NHS wants to make it as hard as possible to transition. I mean, imagine telling someone who told their family as a teenager that they were a girl that they weren't sure if she was being genuine... for a full decade before finally giving her the treatment. This also involved taking the train from Wales to King's Cross every three months for an interview that lasted 5 minutes and pushed the decision back. If she missed one then it was back to the start. For someone with agoraphobia it was very, very difficult.

I don't mean to rant but I can't stand when people say there needs to be more control on access to treatment when it's already gatekept to an absurd degree. They will deny treatment for literally the smallest thing or administrative detail if they can.

Zetetic

Quote from: somersetchris on April 23, 2022, 07:07:56 PMWe have an equalities minister, if they were worth a damn they would have access to this kind of information and be sharing it.
The information doesn't currently exist, other than as unstructured information across multiple organisations.

The way this actually gets better is a concerted effort to demand a data set be put in place, and specific analysis to be published on the basis of it, on a pre-determined schedule.

Boring though, and most special interest groups take a lot of herding (in my limited experience) to get them to pay attention to this sort of thing for long enough to actually have an impact.

Zetetic

Quote from: Elfking on April 23, 2022, 07:09:12 PMTrans medical care is woeful.
On the plus side, almost all medical care is woeful and heavily gatekept now, across the four NHSs of the UK.

(There's a more serious point here about building solidarity across different groups of healthcare users but I don't have the energy for it.)

QuoteThis also involved taking the train from Wales to King's Cross every three months for an interview
For what it's worth, NHS Wales no longer commissions GID services over the border for new patients aged over 18, and the new Welsh Gender Service offers virtual consultations.

(They're also explicitly supporting a ban on transgender conversion therapy.)

DreadedScotsman

@Elfking yeah it's obscene how bad it is, claiming puberty blockers are untested ignores them being used to block precocious puberty for decades

Then when trans people are older having to jump through hoops to get HRT that cis people can get with a snap of the fingers for things like menopause for cis women or low sex drive for cis men, whilst some things may require a specialist for cis people the wait is generally a few weeks not years.



Sonny_Jim

Quote from: Better Midlands on April 23, 2022, 07:35:50 PM

Loose, screw loose.  Graham has got a screw loose.

Get in.  The pedal bin.  Then reach out for the tunnocks tin(?)I dunno, bored now



Sonny_Jim

Mum, I want to play the whack-a-rat game!
Sorry pumpkin, that would mean walking past that crazy lady from number 36's stall, remember the last time at the scouts coffee morning where she kept on asking you if you had a penis?

dead-ced-dead

Respect My Sex if You Want My X is such an awful, poorly worded slogan if you're not terminally online.


dead-ced-dead

Always gives me a chuckle to see their events being populated by 10 people.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

The fact that they've appropriated the suffragette colours makes me so angry.

idunnosomename

Quote from: dead-ced-dead on April 24, 2022, 07:57:33 AMRespect My Sex if You Want My X is such an awful, poorly worded slogan if you're not terminally online.
Respect XX or I'll soil my kecks

frajer

Quote from: dead-ced-dead on April 24, 2022, 10:09:03 AMAlways gives me a chuckle to see their events being populated by 10 people.

Days that end in "day" are always going to be difficult.




Quote from: Better Midlands on April 24, 2022, 08:44:17 AMThere was one in Glasgow yesterday too



Jeez, much prefer the mad evangelicals that are usually at that spot. At least they tell us we're going to hell regardless of gender.

NeaX

Quote from: maizebasedsnack on April 24, 2022, 01:17:12 PMJeez, much prefer the mad evangelicals that are usually at that spot. At least they tell us we're going to hell regardless of gender.

At least Satan knows what a woman is!

Kankurette

Speaking of which, from a thread about Jezebel Rayner on Mumsnet:
QuoteThis is me and I know tories are not friends of women. But they are still getting my vote sadly as women cannot organise as a political group if they cannot talk about who is (and who is not) a woman. So sadly although the tories are awful, they are also currently the only party not trying to dismantle the definitions of women which are essential for any meaningful political action. If Starmer had his way we could not say that this is how the tories treat 'women' could we? We would have no language to draw attention to the inequalities and oppression on which misogyny is built. It's a sorry state of affairs and I consider the opposition to be in a disgusting state of affairs but sadly it's a choice between a passively misogynistic party and an actively male supremacist one. So worst of two evils.
The poster gets called out for this and keeps bleating 'but Labour don't know what a woman iiiiis'. G-d forbid cis and trans women team up.

greencalx

Christ what a total fucking bullshit argument. Just like how there is no language to talk about the historical oppression of Jews because a few Christians converted.

Kankurette

The logic seems to be that because the definition of women includes trans women, cis ones aren't going to be protected anymore. We can't organise if we don't know what a woman is. It's horse shit. The existence of trans women does not take away sex-based oppression or misogyny.

Barry Admin

Quote from: some transphobeBut they are still getting my vote sadly as women cannot organise as a political group if they cannot talk about who is (and who is not) a woman.

I've heard them say that before, it's in one of those cringey graphics of one of them I think.

Seems like a received opinion they've never stopped to think about. It's just silly when you put it to any kind of analysis.

dissolute ocelot

There's no biological definition of race, which is why terfs don't oppose racism and are all white supremacists.