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March 29, 2024, 02:28:27 PM

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Explain Richard Herring please

Started by MrMealDeal, May 06, 2022, 06:41:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mobbd

Quote from: somersetchris on May 09, 2022, 08:29:44 PMYeah Collins was a music journalist for a long time. For me, if your job is music journalist and you get some gigs in radio, even if it's off and on, you're doing alright for yourself. That would be a bit like a musician complaining they get some acting jobs but not enough acting jobs.

I see what you mean but he only started out as a music journalist. That was his early career. He worked up to having his own show (for ages) on 6Music. Then they let him go and he was on cover duty. And then, after C&H, the work dried up. And now he's on commercial radio playing film sound tracks. That's a career decline in its own right but he was also pivoting from his DJ work into creating original comedy: he wrote sitcom scripts and had the podcast and worked up his own standup show while collaborating with Herring and Legge and Ince. And that's all behind him now. It really sucks. The pullback from comedy back into DJ work I believe was a loss of confidence due to what happened with Rich. As I say, this is all long-distance armchair psychology but it's my read nonetheless.

Quote from: Indomitable Spirit on May 09, 2022, 09:15:47 PMSaying that, I would say I fall slightly more on Collins side of the argument. They both were involved in other projects outside of the double act, so it feels like Herring's protestations about loyalty ring a bit hollow - it's far more likely he was just bitter that he didn't get asked to do the show.

Same. I don't think it was about the Josie show at all. I think Collins didn't like the horror of increasingly being Rich's on-air punching bag (Herring always said that was the joke of C&H but it didn't have to be and it certainly wasn't built into the show's foundations) and Herring was irritated by Collins' occasional clumsiness around missing a joke or failing to 'Yes And' or talking over Herring's funny bits. I'd say that was all part of the Collins charm myself and nothing to fall out over and certainly nothing that warranted the levels of hostility Herring sometimes showed on air. That's where the simmering tensions came from in my view.

Twilkes

Quote from: AllisonSays on May 10, 2022, 09:37:20 AMHahaha, I actually agree with you on that one too, very much not for me.

"Okay so let's break it down, exactly what is in this cheese sandwich?"

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: Twilkes on May 10, 2022, 10:23:47 AM"Okay so let's break it down, exactly what is in this cheese sandwich?"

im glad you asked that russel - you went to oxford with me didnt you? - right, so its cheese...

Collins' first memoir is subtitled "My Difficult 80s" but then you read it and, as someone who genuinely did have a difficult 80s, know you've been conned by a book cover.

Maconie's book covers are even worse of course. What kind of egomaniac lets a cover go out with a quote comparing him to Orwell without at least saying to the publisher, "Hang on folks, I'm good but I'm not that good"?

Replies From View

Quote from: AllisonSays on May 10, 2022, 09:37:20 AMHahaha, I actually agree with you on that one too, very much not for me.

Have you seen any of Acaster's long-form solo shows?  They're well crafted and pretty funny, and certainly don't strike me as lazy.  I wouldn't lump him in with Gamble, who without Ian Boldsworth simply comes across as a posh kid out of his depth.

AllisonSays

I watched the most recent one - Cold Lasagna etc etc - and agree with you that it was a well-crafted and thoughtful show, although there's still some resistance in me towards his style or his manner that I couldn't quite get past. But yeah, it was alright!

My antipathy towards the podcast is perhaps more towards the general, podcast-driven trend for comedians to become 'funny people who can just chat about whatever in a funny way', rather than people who write and perform material. But that's a bigger discussion for another thread, I suppose.

Sebastian Cobb

I agree that his 'working hard' amounts to volume, doing lots of things in a bit of a half-arsed manner.

Replies From View

Quote from: Mobbd on May 10, 2022, 09:46:36 AMI see what you mean but he only started out as a music journalist. That was his early career. He worked up to having his own show (for ages) on 6Music. Then they let him go and he was on cover duty. And then, after C&H, the work dried up. And now he's on commercial radio playing film sound tracks. That's a career decline in its own right but he was also pivoting from his DJ work into creating original comedy: he wrote sitcom scripts and had the podcast and worked up his own standup show while collaborating with Herring and Legge and Ince. And that's all behind him now. It really sucks. The pullback from comedy back into DJ work I believe was a loss of confidence due to what happened with Rich. As I say, this is all long-distance armchair psychology but it's my read nonetheless.

Same. I don't think it was about the Josie show at all. I think Collins didn't like the horror of increasingly being Rich's on-air punching bag (Herring always said that was the joke of C&H but it didn't have to be and it certainly wasn't built into the show's foundations) and Herring was irritated by Collins' occasional clumsiness around missing a joke or failing to 'Yes And' or talking over Herring's funny bits. I'd say that was all part of the Collins charm myself and nothing to fall out over and certainly nothing that warranted the levels of hostility Herring sometimes showed on air. That's where the simmering tensions came from in my view.

Herring rarely did "yes and" whenever it came to Collins' own efforts, it has to be said.  He'd steamroll over everything that wasn't one of his own streams of consciousness, which he'd expect Collins to swoon over.

The final episode of their podcast is such grim listening.  From Collins' protestations it's clear that he thought they were meeting up in private to have a water-under-the-bridge chat and work out between themselves whether they might be able to continue working together, but Herring announced he wouldn't be talking to Collins unless it was being recorded for the podcast.  And if Herring was joking about that last point, it's nevertheless what was going on, and Collins was tangibly very unhappy about the situation.

And Herring is using the podcast as an opportunity to get his own side of the story out, whilst ignoring everything Collins says and does.  It's reminiscent of Derek and Clive's most unpleasant exchanges where you knew it wasn't completely an act and Cook was drunk, probably feeling threatened by Moore's success and just being an arse.


This all said, Collins did come across as very entitled and needy in his RHLSTP, to the extent that I started wondering whether he had some kind of dependency on Herring when it came to the world of comedy.

Sebastian Cobb

Herring's 'woe is me' stories do make me feel sorry for him but I feel his complaining in public isn't great either. With Lee and Herring I concluded he probably did get the shitty end of the stick and that's quite conceivable that whilst Lee is funnier, Herring probably would be a better person to have as a mate but I'm not sure that's so true with the Collins aspect although I wonder if some of his behaviour was borne out of bitterness from the breakdown of his earlier double-act.

Pranet

There is a bully in Herring which came out with Andrew Collins. And he misunderstood what was good about them working together.

Twonty Gostelow

Quote from: Satchmo Distel on May 10, 2022, 02:29:02 PMCollins' first memoir is subtitled "My Difficult 80s" but then you read it and, as someone who genuinely did have a difficult 80s, know you've been conned by a book cover.

That was his second one.

QuoteMaconie's book covers are even worse of course. What kind of egomaniac lets a cover go out with a quote comparing him to Orwell without at least saying to the publisher, "Hang on folks, I'm good but I'm not that good"?

See also the cover of the Mark Radcliffe book that called Radcliffe 'the Michel de Montaigne of Manchester'. Ridiculous. He's from Bolton.

Bigfella

At 5 to 11 tonight, five minute interview with Herring on Radio 4 Extra.  This precedes an episode of Fist of Fun. 

Magnum Valentino


pigamus

Quote from: Pranet on May 10, 2022, 03:55:59 PMThere is a bully in Herring which came out with Andrew Collins. And he misunderstood what was good about them working together.

I always felt that was unfair. Herring is an overgrown child but he isn't a bully. It was more about Collins being odd and defensive and touchy to a silly degree. I mean you signed up to do a podcast with Richard Herring for fuck's sake, what did you expect?

typeforty

Oh gawd, we're not going to have the 'bullying' argument again, are we? There was enough of that on the Ian Boldsworth/Parapod thread...

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: Replies From View on May 10, 2022, 03:13:27 PMHave you seen any of Acaster's long-form solo shows?  They're well crafted and pretty funny, and certainly don't strike me as lazy.  I wouldn't lump him in with Gamble, who without Ian Boldsworth simply comes across as a posh kid out of his depth.

Yea I'd heard that about acaster, fair doos to him. But that cooking show really feels like being stuck on a bus with another universities' kayaking club

Nothing much to say about Herring other than that I don't think there's any harm in him.

More inspired to post by mention of Andrew Collins's third book Thats Me In The Corner. Haven't read either of the other two. I assume they're much better, or the third one would never have come to exist. It basically consists of a series of media engagements recounted in hypnotically tedious detail. To the point where you start to imagine the whole thing is an exercise in experimental art. Like John Cage's 433 but instead of sound, what's been removed is anything of any informational or entertainment value that might have motivated you to move from one sentence to another, apart from it being the only book in a holiday rental that wasn't written by either Sandi Toksvig or Clarkson (we haven't been back).
 
There is, as I recall, a whole chapter about writing links for a Clive James clip show. Without wanting to spoil the anecdote for those who haven't heard it, they write some links and Clive isn't sure about them (though he's very nice about it) so they have to do a second draft. That's it.

It's possible that Collins's enthusiasm for homeopathy led him to see how minute a quantity of worthwhile material he could get away with in a manuscript of several hundred pages.

Tony Tony Tony

Quote from: Twonty Gostelow on May 10, 2022, 04:21:05 PMThat was his second one.

See also the cover of the Mark Radcliffe book that called Radcliffe 'the Michel de Montaigne of Manchester'. Ridiculous. He's from Bolton.

Sorry for being pedantic (aside not sorry for being pedantic) but Bolton is in Greater Manchester so the quote stands at least geographically. Having said that they couldn't describe Ratcliffe as the Bard of Bolton as we all know that's Hovis Presley.

Replies From View

I saw Andrew Collins' RHLSTP live, and when Collins came onstage he looked like he was now made of Fimo.  I'm not sure whether that comes across on the video.

On the subject of him being boring, he does seem to have difficulty differentiating between anecdotes that are worth sharing or not.  For example, communicating to the live audience that there were once VHS tapes, and all the episodes of Friends would fill a whole shelf.  He seemed to think nobody else in the room would remember video cassettes and this fact would be entertaining enough information on its own.

Twonty Gostelow

Quote from: Tony Tony Tony on May 10, 2022, 09:58:16 PMSorry for being pedantic (aside not sorry for being pedantic) but Bolton is in Greater Manchester so the quote stands at least geographically. Having said that they couldn't describe Ratcliffe as the Bard of Bolton as we all know that's Hovis Presley.
It weren't in Greater Manchester when he were born though. Any road, I made the Montaigne quote up in the hope it would get repeated somewhere.

Ferris

Quote from: Wacky Homemade Badges on May 10, 2022, 09:56:33 PMIt's possible that Collins's enthusiasm for homeopathy led him to see how minute a quantity of worthwhile material he could get away with in a manuscript of several hundred pages.

Laughed at this.

Mister Six

Quote from: Twilkes on May 06, 2022, 09:43:58 PMI would love to see him get another full length live show off the ground and tour it but I honestly don't think he will, half of his blog is about his kids and they seem to be his world now. He interviewed his wife on RHLSTP online and they seem to get on really well, although if she was bitter about the lack of Ferrero Rocher up to that point she kept it hidden.

Good for him. If I could get paid for interviewing people and spend the rest of my time hanging about with my wife and kids (well, wife and dog, but still), I'd choose that over laboriously working up an Edinburgh show then touring it all over the country.

JamesTC

Quote from: Mobbd on May 09, 2022, 02:49:57 PMDo you really think that? I'd like to think it was something along those lines (though the more hostile chemistry of the later episodes, the second CD, and the BBC shows was never my favourite) but it felt to me like Collins was still genuinely real-life sore about the breakup and about the sacrifices he'd made for the relationship (i.e. looking unprofessional) that never paid off beyond a few years of fun and hijinks. It made me feel quite sad.

I listened to some of it last night and I can definitely see your perspective. I don't think he is sore so much as just reading Herring wrong. He both wants to slip back into the "Collings" persona, whilst at the same time retaining some level of dignity by asserting that Herring's successes do not bother him.

For what it is worth, I think he is being honest when Collins says that he no longer measures himself against Herring's success. It is just he doesn't realise that Herring isn't slipping into an old persona when he is mentioning that he has been on Pointless or stuff like that.

I do think the bit where Herring reveals that he was going to ask Collins to be his best man is really sad. After over 200 podcast episodes across the two shows, you do get a little invested in the two of them, and it is devastating to think of it ending the way it did. It is probably why I want to see the best in the reunion, and I do cherish those little moments that they both slip back into their old roles.

It reminds me of the silly times I've lost friends over something stupid. Or even just drifting apart from people on different paths.

I've just remembered the time from some random podcast episode that Herring was talking about having sex with all the actors from Doctor Who and debating in which order he would have sex with them. He pondered if you would do it based on height and started "Baker, Baker..." and they both said at the same time "...candlestick maker". That was a good bit.

Gurke and Hare



I've seen some of Collins' stand-up (I think it was at the Ted Chippington night) and it wasn't very good. Something about foot dancing - ie moving your feet inside your shoes when you're listening to music at the bus stop so that the other people won't know you're dancing. It fitted in with the dull thing as mentioned here in other contexts really.

Cold Meat Platter

Collins co-wrote the sitcom Grass with Simon Day which I really enjoyed.
Not really been that aware of his work otherwise, apart from the Herring stuff.

Pink Gregory

Quote from: Cold Meat Platter on May 11, 2022, 12:59:32 AMCollins co-wrote the sitcom Grass with Simon Day which I really enjoyed.
Not really been that aware of his work otherwise, apart from the Herring stuff.

Wasn't he involved with the early series of Not Going Out?

Lisa Jesusandmarychain

Stuart Maconie is from Wigan.

Andrew Collins did, indeed, have scriptwriting gigs for " Eastenders", " Not Going Out" and " Grass". Wonder what made him stop that particular area of employment?

For bonus points, who can tell me what Andrew Collins'very first TV appearance was? ( the clue is actually in the question)

willbo

Quote from: Wacky Homemade Badges on May 10, 2022, 09:56:33 PMNothing much to say about Herring other than that I don't think there's any harm in him.

More inspired to post by mention of Andrew Collins's third book Thats Me In The Corner. Haven't read either of the other two. I assume they're much better, or the third one would never have come to exist. It basically consists of a series of media engagements recounted in hypnotically tedious detail. To the point where you start to imagine the whole thing is an exercise in experimental art. Like John Cage's 433 but instead of sound, what's been removed is anything of any informational or entertainment value that might have motivated you to move from one sentence to another, apart from it being the only book in a holiday rental that wasn't written by either Sandi Toksvig or Clarkson (we haven't been back).
 
There is, as I recall, a whole chapter about writing links for a Clive James clip show. Without wanting to spoil the anecdote for those who haven't heard it, they write some links and Clive isn't sure about them (though he's very nice about it) so they have to do a second draft. That's it.

It's possible that Collins's enthusiasm for homeopathy led him to see how minute a quantity of worthwhile material he could get away with in a manuscript of several hundred pages.

I had his first book from a charity shop years ago and quite enjoyed it. It was basically just his funny memoir about a classic 70s UK childhood. I thought he came across as kind of intentionally slightly dull and ordinary. Stuff about goofy things his mum/dad said, him freaking out about the scary PSAs on TV, etc. But it was likable enough. Always meant to read the second which I think was about him at uni.

pigamus

Funny that someone as dull as Andrew Collins has written three whole volumes of autobiography - and Herring is supposed to be the egomaniac!

It was just never a relationship of equals, was it? For all his faults, Herring can be very funny, whereas Collins... is a nice bloke. And it's two people who just fundamentally don't understand each other so it was probably doomed from the start.

turnstyle

Once asked a member of staff at a provincial theatre if Herring would be able to come out and sign my FoF annual after a gig.

'Oh no, I wouldn't think he'd do anything like that'.

Hitler; worse than.

Lee on the other hand has been happy to have a chat at his merch stall whilst I've purchased one of his novelty snow globes. Salt of the earth that fella, salt of the eaaarth.

Also, I am pretty sure that Herring reads everything written about him online, so I'll say hello Richard, thanks for all the entertainment over the years mate. I don't really think you're worse than Hitler. Maybe one of the B-side Nazis, like Goering. Lend us a quid would you?