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March 29, 2024, 01:25:12 PM

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Ricky Gervais: SuperNature

Started by Blue Jam, July 29, 2018, 02:09:02 PM

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Replies From View

Quote from: frajer on May 30, 2022, 08:11:31 AMAm I a desiccated irrelevant jeans man?

No, it's the sixth formers who are wrong.

You can count your arsecheeks that it were to become 'common sense' to mock rich men who wear too much jeanage, he'd be the biggest fucking snowflake about it.

Pdine

Sorry if it's already been mentioned but this furore reminds me of how puzzling Gervais' own sense of humour is on that 'Talking Funny' special he put together with Seinfeld, Rock and CK. CK talks about how he finds really 'stupid' humour funny, and gives this example:

https://youtu.be/OKY6BGcx37k?t=1820

Gervais initially insists that you could only laugh at that 'ironically', but to me that's always seemed to me like him deploying a learned tactic, like he's not quite grasped what laughing ironically means but he knows you should say that's what you're doing if you sense you're laughing at something offensive.

Replies From View

There's an incredible disingenuity as well behind the argument "you can be cancelled now for saying something ten years ago that wasn't offensive when you said it".

It wasn't deemed 'offensive' ten years ago because we were arguably less aware/enlightened about the situations of those specific minorities, you knob.  It doesn't mean you weren't being a bully back then or delivering those arguments without a cruel intent.  It just means the spotlight wasn't going to be on you so easily, and that's also probably why you did it.  Plus you evidently still hold those views now, while the rest of us are trying to move on.  That's the thing - it's not like everyone is suddenly flawless, but there can be an intention by everyone to move in a certain direction and not feel personally affronted that actually you'd still quite like to be a cunt if that's ok.

Since it's apparently fine to erect strawmen:  "It was different times back then; then all of a sudden it became 'not on' to grope a young woman on a train and everyone had a phone camera to catch you out, and everything in the world became unfair.  Lol I'm being ironic though amirite lads"

Replies From View

Quote from: checkoutgirl on May 29, 2022, 12:22:16 PMIf people who like Gervais's stuff have substantial explanations for why they do then that's worthwhile and interesting and gets a debate going.

It's just funny to watch a fat man struggle.


IRONY LOLOLOLOLOL

Pdine

Quote from: Replies From View on May 30, 2022, 09:39:06 AMThere's an incredible disingenuity as well behind the argument "you can be cancelled now for saying something ten years ago that wasn't offensive when you said it".

It wasn't deemed 'offensive' ten years ago because we were arguably less aware/enlightened about the situations of those specific minorities, you knob.  It doesn't mean you weren't being a bully back then or delivering those arguments without a cruel intent.  It just means the spotlight wasn't going to be on you so easily, and that's also probably why you did it.  Plus you evidently still hold those views now, while the rest of us are trying to move on.  That's the thing - it's not like everyone is suddenly flawless, but there can be an intention by everyone to move in a certain direction and not feel personally affronted that actually you'd still quite like to be a cunt if that's ok.

Since it's apparently fine to erect strawmen:  "It was different times back then; then all of a sudden it became 'not on' to grope a young woman on a train and everyone had a phone camera to catch you out, and everything in the world became unfair.  Lol I'm being ironic though amirite lads"

He's definitely trying to imply that boundaries to humour are arbitrary and move unpredictably, and I think it's fair to say that he intends that as a damning criticism. I agree that he's wrong, but at the same time I do think that although you can tell in advance what's likely to become beyond the pale, you can't necessarily know when it will happen. I'm not a vegetarian but I'm aware that morally I probably should be, and I'm convinced that a time will come when today's casual acceptance of animal slaughter will look seriously repugnant. How long will that take, though? How long will easy jokes about cows being dinner or getting nervous around chefs be funny? It's really hard to say.

Dr Rock

I know it's a few pages back and there was a link to something on twitter I think that I never clicked, but regarding whether Gervais was parodying people saying you shouldn't misgender Chris Chan, even if he did rape his mother, is there any evidence Gervaise has heard of Chris Chan? I bet he hasn't.

Replies From View

Just want to remind everyone that Gervais literally says "It doesn't hurt anyone because it's just words" in this.  Not as an ironic joke, but as a explanation of why it's ok for someone in his position to bash minorities 'for comic effect' to people who just think it's ok to bash minorities.

RicoMNKN

"you can be cancelled now for saying stealing something ten twenty years ago that wasn't offensive when you Stewart Lee said it".

Barry Admin

Quote from: Dr Rock on May 30, 2022, 10:08:46 AMI know it's a few pages back and there was a link to something on twitter I think that I never clicked, but regarding whether Gervais was parodying people saying you shouldn't misgender Chris Chan, even if he did rape his mother, is there any evidence Gervaise has heard of Chris Chan? I bet he hasn't.

Why does that matter?

People have asserted that it's wrong to misgender someone just because they've committed a crime, and that is most commonly a bone of contention when it's someone like Yaniv, Karen White or Chris Chan - i.e. people who are considered to be abusive fakers.

That's obviously what Gervais is referencing.


JaDanketies

I don't think it's complicated or controversial. It's not okay to 'only be bigoted towards shitheads'. It's not okay to 'only use the n-word for criminals', for instance. You're demonstrating to other members of the same minority group that you still think slurs about them, and that you're only not being bigoted about them because they're 'one of the good ones'. But if they take the wrong step, they'll be a n*gger too!

Dr Rock

Quote from: JaDanketies on May 30, 2022, 11:19:18 AMI don't think it's complicated or controversial. It's not okay to 'only be bigoted towards shitheads'. It's not okay to 'only use the n-word for criminals', for instance. You're demonstrating to other members of the same minority group that you still think slurs about them, and that you're only not being bigoted about them because they're 'one of the good ones'. But if they take the wrong step, they'll be a n*gger too!

To be clear, I completely agree.

QDRPHNC

Ironic the sixth form common rooms thing, since that is about the depth of Gervais' thinking, whether it's atheism, irony, jokes being just words, "nature", "science", or solo sitcom writing.

I only learned about chris chan relatively recently, but aren't they a special case? I read that he was autistic and the victim of a long, slow, internet bullying campaign that involved people pretending to be their friend and planting seeds like "Oh, you might be trans" or whatever, and seeing how far they could push it?

frajer

Quote from: QDRPHNC on May 30, 2022, 11:48:21 AMIronic the sixth form common rooms thing, since that is about the depth of Gervais' thinking, whether it's atheism, irony, jokes being just words, "nature", "science", or solo sitcom writing.

Gervais' own psuedo-intellectual musing on what goes into his jokes really is amazing. Whenever I hear him pontificating yet again about why it's fine to make jokes about minority groups, and that he sets out to offend everyone so that's what makes it fair, it really does remind me that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

C_Larence

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on May 30, 2022, 12:32:28 PMI only learned about chris chan relatively recently, but aren't they a special case? I read that he was autistic and the victim of a long, slow, internet bullying campaign that involved people pretending to be their friend and planting seeds like "Oh, you might be trans" or whatever, and seeing how far they could push it?

Yeah, using Chris Chan as a case study about anything outside of maybe cyber bullying is a waste of time.

JaDanketies

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on May 30, 2022, 12:32:28 PMI only learned about chris chan relatively recently, but aren't they a special case? I read that he was autistic and the victim of a long, slow, internet bullying campaign that involved people pretending to be their friend and planting seeds like "Oh, you might be trans" or whatever, and seeing how far they could push it?

some girl got doxxed and a load of other bad stuff about her came out after she allegedly encouraged Chris Chan to rape their mother, too; she was the one who leaked the info. People hated her for 'breaking the internet's favourite toy'

Rich Uncle Skeleton

Quote from: frajer on May 30, 2022, 12:41:43 PMGervais' own psuedo-intellectual musing on what goes into his jokes really is amazing. Whenever I hear him pontificating yet again about why it's fine to make jokes about minority groups, and that he sets out to offend everyone so that's what makes it fair, it really does remind me that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

it's pretty impressive the amount of chin-stroking he does concerning his own stand up. (not to mention the serious overthinking he does on that Talking Funny programme) But when you actually see some of this Telling It Like It Is material it's such hack rubbish that I, and probably a lot of people here, have already seen deservedly crash and burn at open mics.


Des Wigwam

Should have realised that the one line I thought had potential (although he bungles it and uses it the wrong way round and fucks it basically) also exists almost verbatim on the internet. Not saying it's lifted directly just that it exists almost verbatim in a readily accessible place.

I do feel like I am turning into a critic version of Ricky Gervais - trotting out 10-15 year old observations of his material and the character that's presented to the world as true and without irony or veneer, and making the same points over and over again - and seemingly as frustrated with him as he is with the world although I don't think he is frustrated with it I just think it's a very lucrative niche he's carved and won't move away from.

Fascinating man but it's a real shame now that he's actively a bad thing for the world rather than a curiosity.

Ricky Gervais Diana Memorial Dance - Hi Google Crawler

Replies From View

Quote from: frajer on May 30, 2022, 12:41:43 PMGervais' own psuedo-intellectual musing on what goes into his jokes really is amazing. Whenever I hear him pontificating yet again about why it's fine to make jokes about minority groups, and that he sets out to offend everyone so that's what makes it fair, it really does remind me that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

And it's not so much knowledge, either, as a rhythm that he copied off Stewart Lee and stuffed his own content into.

QDRPHNC

The more I think about it, the more true it seems that his intellectual curiosity sort of ended around early adulthood - mentally, if not physically.

You think about Derke and Afterlife - an 18-year-old's idea of how a care home works, or a newspaper, or how relationships work, or how grief works, etc. And not only that, but he still has that adolescent air about him, that he has now figured out that religion is bad, say, and we all need to be informed of this.

Blue Jam

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on May 30, 2022, 01:06:15 PMhttps://youtu.be/tCIkSRE1vjE?t=509



John Lydon has gone all MAGA hat of late though, still not a bit of praise I'd be proud of.

frajer

Quote from: QDRPHNC on May 30, 2022, 02:06:18 PMThe more I think about it, the more true it seems that his intellectual curiosity sort of ended around early adulthood - mentally, if not physically.

You think about Derke and Afterlife - an 18-year-old's idea of how a care home works, or a newspaper, or how relationships work, or how grief works, etc. And not only that, but he still has that adolescent air about him, that he has now figured out that religion is bad, say, and we all need to be informed of this.

Yeah the manufactured awestruck way he presents such simplistic ideas (Being Kind is Good, Animals Should be Cared For), as if he's just been struck by a lightning bolt of clarity, is deeply childish.

And he never develops the ideas further than the abstract. For all he touts his atheism (I know, surprised me too, but he is!) he's got hugely simple ideas about morality that never explore what would actually cause or inspire people to be kind, or otherwise.

None of which would especially irritate, if he didn't always bang on about the intellectual wells he draws from to create his two-dimensional characters, or offer wilfully basic jokes about sex/ gender/ politics/ whatever the fuck happens to float across his brain and think "that'll be good for 2 minutes of material."

Replies From View

His "debunk of the supernatural" in this show amounted to him saying "I don't think there are any ghosts" and a tired bit about ghost hunting programmes broadcast in the 90s.  I did think the development of the idea into Attenborough finding fuck all everywhere would be decent if it was the second stage of something bigger, but it was actually the final stage of it - he stopped it there and apparently that was the depth needed to name the entire show after it.



Ferris


willbo

and just who is Ryan Coogan? Huh? Has he ever presented the Globes?

Thosworth

Quote from: Ferris on May 30, 2022, 04:25:05 PMGervaisHighFiveDenied.gif

Love how YouTube's new popularity graph shows an Everestian peak at that point in the film, including some twinkly stars and 'Most replayed' when you hover

Ferris

It is a superb moment. He even does the gervais laugh (after he sees CK go for it) to show how "among his peers" he really is.

What an absolute herbert.