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March 28, 2024, 02:57:37 PM

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Ricky Gervais: SuperNature

Started by Blue Jam, July 29, 2018, 02:09:02 PM

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Des Wigwam

Quote from: Stigdu on June 01, 2022, 08:15:37 AMYou posted this like it's a bad thing. That was absolutely hilarious! The little looks to camera remind me of Oliver Hardy. Brilliant.

It's not not funny - I chuckled at a couple of the bits and I quite like exasperated comedy - but (as Twonty says) from a critical pov that's just the two Ricky Gervais interview characters played by different people - they're not really characters in their own right. I'd like to be bitchy and say it's probably saved by having Merchant's input. If that were in Afterlife the Warwick Davies character would be played by Gervais and would triumph. Probably call her a cunt, too.

BritishHobo

Quote from: dumpster on June 01, 2022, 12:47:43 AMI read somewhere, maybe on here, how Ricky Gervais needs Stephen Merchant to hold him back.  This is demonstrated perfectly by the Princess Diana song from The Office.  In the David Brent movie you get a second verse, written by Gervais alone, but the song originated in the series written by both Gervais and Merchant.  The two verses are like different songs.  The first verse captures perfectly what you'd get if a terrible, amateur songwriter tried to write a song about Diana's death.  The second is jokes about aids.

Yeah the Brent movie shows a repeated misunderstanding of the character, and the songs especially. As you say, in The Office he's a loser who is trying to emulate what he understands popular music to be like in a very shallow way - and also he's someone who doesn't quite understand how to navigate political correctness during jokes in the office. Come the film, he's just obsessivsly singing about disabled people and non-white people and AIDS and orphans.

phes

It's odd that he's incapable of expressing genuine love or affection towards humans in ways other than teasing or being cruel, but he can manage this with dogs. What I'm saying is that is like to see someone do 70 minutes about Gervais torturing and fucking dogs

Blue Jam

Quote from: willbo on June 01, 2022, 08:31:47 AMI spent some time googling a couple of years ago trying to find out if he was a vegetarian. I think he's gone back and forth on it and is kind of vague on it.

I think he's said he couldn't go fully vegan because he likes cheese too much. Fair enough, can relate.

He also claimed the fish fingers he ate in the cafe scene in the first series of After Life were some kind of vegan substitute, and I remember him mocking the manufactured outrage over the Greggs vegan sausage roll ("Urrrrggghhh, there's no anus in this!" - which I actually found pretty funny) but then when he last presented the Golden Globes he did an interview where he made sure to knock the 100% plant-based menu for the pre-show dinner.

Weird that someone who has been outspoken about animal rights would do that, but I guess that's just him being cowardly again. He can't make jokes based on his sincere feelings about animal rights because his current audience wouldn't laugh.

Rich Uncle Skeleton


Joe Qunt


jobotic

I liked the bits about the elephants in Animals. Hated the bits where he pretended his mate said something at school which turned out to be exactly what we said at school.

Not that I'd watch it again. He's like Johnson, I can't stand his voice.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: jobotic on June 01, 2022, 10:03:28 AMI liked the bits about the elephants in Animals. Hated the bits where he pretended his mate said something at school which turned out to be exactly what we said at school.

I liked Animals and Politics when they came out (and I was 14 or so), but then I heard the XFM shows and realised he'd appropriated some of the funnier takes from Karl anyway. Also, the kind of schoolboy anecdotes you mentioned were discussed on the XFM shows but with him fully acknowledging their urban legend status, so it's a bit weird that he later tried to pass them off as genuine stories from his childhood in his stand-up. Proper end-of-pier beaviour there.


Replies From View

Quote from: The Giggling Bean on June 01, 2022, 07:50:02 AMThat's been my opinion of Gervais from day 1. He's the school bully who's got famous for never outgrowing his school bully persona. He's the sort of sly prick who'd be pretending to be friends with the younger, less confident kids whilst getting them to humiliate themselves. All the time he's nudging and winking to his gang of idiot mates.

From what very little I heard of the podcast he did with Marchant and Pilkington, it was exactly that. Obnoxiously howling and cackling at everything Pilkington said to demean him.

I did enjoy that show he made where he was in Gary Shandlings house though...probably not for the reason Gervais would hope though.

Did you ever see Taping Nigel?  Behind the scenes DVD extra (and it's sequel) in which he treats the editor of The Office and Extras as a toy for his own amusement.

Similar to how he treated Robin Ince but with substantially more physical contact.

Des Wigwam

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on June 01, 2022, 10:18:07 AManecdotes you mentioned were discussed on the XFM shows but with him fully acknowledging their urban legend status, so it's a bit weird that he later tried to pass them off as genuine stories from his childhood in his stand-up

I have waited almost 20 years to bitch about this with someone.

Quote from: Joe Qunt on June 01, 2022, 09:59:10 AMDon't know if anyone's seen this yet:

https://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2022/05/31/50888/the_office_gets_a_middle_eastern_remake

Have always wanted to know how these non-UK Office franchises worked out. Don't suppose there are any Cabbers who are native speakers or grounded enough in the culture enough to comment on them who have seen them.

Replies From View

Quote from: Stigdu on June 01, 2022, 08:15:37 AMYou posted this like it's a bad thing. That was absolutely hilarious! The little looks to camera remind me of Oliver Hardy. Brilliant.

You're saying that Ricky Gervais' fatness somehow came through in the performances of two people he directed.

Disgraceful.

Replies From View

Quote from: Des Wigwam on June 01, 2022, 08:39:31 AMIt's not not funny - I chuckled at a couple of the bits and I quite like exasperated comedy - but (as Twonty says) from a critical pov that's just the two Ricky Gervais interview characters played by different people - they're not really characters in their own right. I'd like to be bitchy and say it's probably saved by having Merchant's input. If that were in Afterlife the Warwick Davies character would be played by Gervais and would triumph. Probably call her a cunt, too.

What's especially distracting for me about Life's Too Short is the Brent impression that everyone's constantly doing.  Not just relatively subtle things like glances to the camera, but the actual vocal inflections that seem to be a result of him directing them or them copying him because they can't think of a better way, or something else I can't identify.  It happens in Derke as well - I haven't seen Afterlife so I can't comment on that - and it's interminable.

Replies From View

Quote from: Replies From View on June 01, 2022, 10:45:46 AMWhat's especially distracting for me about Life's Too Short is the Brent impression that everyone's constantly doing.  Not just relatively subtle things like glances to the camera, but the actual vocal inflections that seem to be a result of him directing them or them copying him because they can't think of a better way, or something else I can't identify.  It happens in Derke as well - I haven't seen Afterlife so I can't comment on that - and it's interminable.

Randomly selected example of the above:


Two David Brents, there.  Why?

dead-ced-dead

Quote from: Des Wigwam on June 01, 2022, 10:34:27 AMHave always wanted to know how these non-UK Office franchises worked out. Don't suppose there are any Cabbers who are native speakers or grounded enough in the culture enough to comment on them who have seen them.

The German version is probably the most successful after the UK and American versions, lasting 5 seasons, eight years, and having its own spin-off book and movie.

Although, there was a controversy surrounding plagiarism. Originally Gervais and Merchant weren't credited and only after the BBC threatened to sue did they put an "inspired by" credit.

I've never seen it though, so can't say how good or not it is.

Amazing to think there are almost 15 different international versions (including the original and the US).

Des Wigwam

Quote from: Replies From View on June 01, 2022, 10:45:46 AMthe actual vocal inflections that seem to be a result of him directing them or them copying him because they can't think of a better way

Phoneshop's Tom / New Man character suffers from this in the first few episodes. The character is almost painfully doing a Brent impression. When the credits roll you see that Gervais is script editor (or consultant - can't remember exactly how he's listed). I really like Phoneshop.

Thinking about that - he must have other script editing credits but him not being front and centre beggars belief these days.

scarecrow

Quote from: Des Wigwam on June 01, 2022, 11:13:29 AMThinking about that - he must have other script editing credits but him not being front and centre beggars belief these days.
The recent John Lydon comment is hilarious because Gervais has shown so little aptitude for direction. He directed every episode of Derek and After Life, yet there's no technical development made over the five seasons. It's inconceivable that he'd attempt something like Cemetery Junction now.

petril

Quote from: Des Wigwam on June 01, 2022, 11:13:29 AMPhoneshop's Tom / New Man character suffers from this in the first few episodes. The character is almost painfully doing a Brent impression. When the credits roll you see that Gervais is script editor (or consultant - can't remember exactly how he's listed). I really like Phoneshop.

Thinking about that - he must have other script editing credits but him not being front and centre beggars belief these days.

iirc his first sort of TV credit was being involved in picking the music and commissioning the theme tune to This Life

BritishHobo

Quote from: scarecrow on June 01, 2022, 12:05:52 PMThe recent John Lydon comment is hilarious because Gervais has shown so little aptitude for direction. He directed every episode of Derek and After Life, yet there's no technical development made over the five seasons. It's inconceivable that he'd attempt something like Cemetery Junction now.

I know it feels like the obvious thing to say, but Merchant's  Fighting With My Family and The Outlaws absolutely shit on Gervais' work in every aspect.

Merchant was on The One Show last night, and when asked why he gave all the characters in The Outlaws (including his own) equal screentime, he joked it's because he's not arrogant enough to think he should lead it.

I don't for a second think it was intended as a dig, but it did make me laugh. I also saw he was asked recently if he and Gervais would work together again, and he politely avoided answering the specific question, instead saying that comedy has moved on now and he doesn't think two white blokes would have much to say. Really shows the difference in sensibilities.

Martin Van Buren Stan

Quote from: BritishHobo on June 01, 2022, 12:18:05 PMI don't for a second think it was intended as a dig, but it did make me laugh. I also saw he was asked recently if he and Gervais would work together again, and he politely avoided answering the specific question, instead saying that comedy has moved on now and he doesn't think two white blokes would have much to say. Really shows the difference in sensibilities.

But one white bloke does? Merchant seems okay but that's just fucking bizarre, unless he was joking. If not it just seems like he's trying to hard to be woke and getting it badly wrong.

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: Martin Van Buren Stan on June 01, 2022, 12:33:53 PMBut one white bloke does? Merchant seems okay but that's just fucking bizarre, unless he was joking. If not it just seems like he's trying to hard to be woke and getting it badly wrong.

I guess his angle would be the fact that his outlaws series put lots of non white bloke types to the fore?

 I guess the decision for him now would be either to retire or to keep taking offers and try and make his writing and casting more inclusive, - can understand why some people would think the latter solution is not good enough, but fair fucks to him I say, outlaws and fighting with my family we're a worthy lean in that direction for me

BritishHobo

Yeah, I assumed it was referring to the style of comedy they did together - white blokes saying lots of sexist, racist, ableist stuff - which continues to be Gervais' sole party trick.

I can't imagine Gervais writing something like The Outlaws - the dynamic between Clare Perkins' activist and Darren Boyd's Daily Mail businessman, for example. Gervais' worldview is so narrow and limited that I don't think he's capable of even approaching writing something like that, giving such weight to other people's perspectives.

frajer

Quote from: BritishHobo on June 01, 2022, 12:49:16 PMI can't imagine Gervais writing something like The Outlaws - the dynamic between Clare Perkins' activist and Darren Boyd's Daily Mail businessman, for example. Gervais' worldview is so narrow and limited that I don't think he's capable of even approaching writing something like that, giving such weight to other people's perspectives.

The Outlaws is a great shout, I didn't out-and-out love the episodes I saw but I liked it and more importantly it clearly has the intelligence and warmth to show different viewpoints, and the conflict and co-operation that arises when different people are forced together.

Compare it to After Life, which is Gervais imagining what how mopey and cuntish he'd be if he was widowed and fills his time by bumping into an endless parade of annoying ciphers whose biggest crime is not thinking and acting like Ricky Gervais wants them to.

It would be fair to argue they are different shows trying to achieve different things, but they are both comedy dramas and I'd say are absolute miles apart in terms of ability.

Brundle-Fly

I remember finding this hilarious at the time because it seemed very audacious to ridicule Comic Relief in a Comic Relief sketch. Rewatching the sketch today, I still laughed at bits, but less heartily, as now it all comes over as rather mean spirited than subversive. Blue's dance turn should have been the punchline with a red-faced Ricky, but no, he has to have the last laugh with a cruel put down on one of the boy band that returns him to high status.


dead-ced-dead

Quote from: BritishHobo on June 01, 2022, 12:49:16 PMYeah, I assumed it was referring to the style of comedy they did together - white blokes saying lots of sexist, racist, ableist stuff - which continues to be Gervais' sole party trick.

I can't imagine Gervais writing something like The Outlaws - the dynamic between Clare Perkins' activist and Darren Boyd's Daily Mail businessman, for example. Gervais' worldview is so narrow and limited that I don't think he's capable of even approaching writing something like that, giving such weight to other people's perspectives.

If I have a problem with Merchant's writing is that it's too mechanically by-the-book. He adheres to every structural rule of screenwriting until it comes off like an exercise rather than something organic. If a plot line or object is set up or mentioned in episode one, you better believe it'll be wrapped up nicely by episode ten.

Fighting With My Family also has this, which holds it back from being truly great. Instead both Outlaws and FWMF are pretty good, showing flashes of future greatness.

THAT SAID, he still knows how to write a goddamn screenplay. If you wish that he wouldn't fret quite so hard at making sure that one line from episode 3 has a payoff by episode 8, Gervais' writing is basically masturbation on a page. There are no plotlines, structure, character arcs, three act structures, arcs or setup-and-payoff.

Stuff just happens in Gervais' scripts until it's time for the ending to happen. The Invention of Lying has this issue too.

The stuff that's overworked and overcooked in a Merchant screenplay is simply non-existent. Over the two, I know which I'd take.

Stigdu

He does make some odd acting choices, though. Couldn't believe it when I saw him in Logan. He was terribly mis-cast.

Dr Rock

Yeah not sure I appreciated him in JoJo Rabbit.

Joe Qunt

Quote from: Replies From View on June 01, 2022, 10:45:46 AMWhat's especially distracting for me about Life's Too Short is the Brent impression that everyone's constantly doing.  Not just relatively subtle things like glances to the camera, but the actual vocal inflections that seem to be a result of him directing them or them copying him because they can't think of a better way, or something else I can't identify.  It happens in Derke as well - I haven't seen Afterlife so I can't comment on that - and it's interminable.

If you've ever seen People Just Do Nothing, the guy who plays MC Grindah is essentially the world's worst Brent impersonator. It's painful.

Des Wigwam

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on June 01, 2022, 01:56:14 PMI remember finding this hilarious at the time because it seemed very audacious to ridicule Comic Relief in a Comic Relief sketch. Rewatching the sketch today, I still laughed at bits, but less heartily, as now it all comes over as rather mean spirited than subversive. Blue's dance turn should have been the punchline with a red-faced Ricky, but no, he has to have the last laugh with a cruel put down on one of the boy band that returns him to high status.


It's understandable that having seen the same joke for 20 years it's not going to raise a laugh (I did genuinely laugh at the sad piano music drive through the streets and at "put your cap on" and the lad from Blue discussing his move was funny) but the bit with Richard Curtis is horrible. And as you say the general tone is mean spirited - but admittedly hindsight might be colouring a lot of my reaction to it. I know Curtis knows what's going on and seems to be slightly smiling at times but he also looks very tired of it. Nice to hear Merchant behind the camera.

I find it very weird that he blends the character he plays on screen with the character he plays in real life - the loser and the winner. That alone doesn't make sense. It's still in-universe but Julie Walters as Mrs Overall / Bo Beaumont is how it's done.

The Giggling Bean

Quote from: Replies From View on June 01, 2022, 10:33:53 AMDid you ever see Taping Nigel?  Behind the scenes DVD extra (and it's sequel) in which he treats the editor of The Office and Extras as a toy for his own amusement.

Similar to how he treated Robin Ince but with substantially more physical contact.

I haven't seen it but I remember it being vigorously discussed here back in the day. I heard that he was pretty physically abusive in it but can't remember the specifics.