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March 28, 2024, 09:38:44 PM

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Ricky Gervais: SuperNature

Started by Blue Jam, July 29, 2018, 02:09:02 PM

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Replies From View

Quote from: Martin Van Buren Stan on June 02, 2022, 11:29:01 PMThe bit where he confronts Gervais about being uncomfortable around Jewish people seems uncalled for. It's mad that they included it but not Ricky's reply (if there was one).

I don't think it was uncalled for, in the sense that it came from Gervais in a statement that was itself unprovoked.  My memory of it is as follows:

Without Shandling first making any comment about Jewish comedy or being Jewish, Gervais suddenly offered the comment (and I am paraphrasing):  "When I spoke to Larry David, he said that Jewish humour is 'a lot of complaining'."  Gervais then performed that laugh he does when he and his company are in agreement - like he gets something and so does the other person, and they're sharing in the funny thing Gervais has said.  Except Shandling wasn't in on this.  He hadn't provoked Gervais' choice of this topic, he wasn't agreeing with Gervais' right to claim this as his territory.  One thing for Larry David to make that remark himself, but it's not Gervais' story to tell.  Why was Gervais retelling this story as a precursor to prod Shandling into discussing Jewishness or Jewish humour?

Essentially:  "Do you agree with Larry David that Jewish comedy is 'a lot of complaining'?" when he should have allowed the conversation with Shandling to emerge organically and be entirely about Shandling's own priorities and self-identification, rather than Gervais' whims and assumptions about what those would be.

It was off from Gervais, and it did indeed suggest some form of discomfort.  Not antisemitism, but a desire to make Jewish humour a subject of discussion and treat it as his trademark 'awkward humour' when it's not his place to do so.  Incredibly misguided, and again more fuel to the entire fire that he's just out of his depth most of the time when it comes to understanding boundaries and what taboos are fair game for comedy.

Menu

Quote from: checkoutgirl on June 02, 2022, 11:20:21 PMGervais was really feeling his oats after getting on like old pals with Larry David and David Guest and was probably thinking "watch and learn son, watch and learn" going into this interview. And then just hits a brick wall with Shanders.

Heh. Pride cometh before a fall.

David Guest?


Menu

#963
That was one of the strangest, and most irritating, bits of television I've ever seen.

Anyway I've realised Checkoutgirl means CHRISTOPHER Guest.

Twonty Gostelow

Quote from: Replies From View on June 02, 2022, 10:41:05 PMIt's been a long time since I've seen it, but my memory is that Shandling was transparently dumbfounded at Gervais' childishly basic take on 'uncomfortable' humour.

Haven't seen it in years either but I think there was a point when Shandling challenged him (or at least brought the subject up) about the insensitivity in Extras of Gervais's character dressed as a Nazi soldier laughing at someone with cerebral palsy (played by Francesca Martinez (who has CP)), given the Nazis' T4 programme that euthanised disabled people.
Hard to tell if Gervais was aware of the implications or not at the time.

Ferris

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 02, 2022, 10:19:17 PMYeah, it probably is just a bit of improvised shtick. That sudden frosty silence is a good piece of radio, though. Dead air at its best.

If it's the same moment I'm thinking of, you can hear Merchant say "yeah I'm just not in the mood..." before the music fully cuts in.

Menu

Quote from: Ferris on June 03, 2022, 02:36:05 AMIf it's the same moment I'm thinking of, you can hear Merchant say "yeah I'm just not in the mood..." before the music fully cuts in.

He does say something inaudible right at the end but I'm still pretty sure it's still part of the fun. Gervais is doing his turning-a-switch-on-and-off-while-Les-Dennis-gets-his-cock-out fumbling schtick. I don't think he'd be doing that in an actual tense moment.

That said, I'd be interested to hear the next bit.....

Ferris

Sounded genuine enough to me, and I have to question the comedic value of it. Who'd get a chuckle out of that? Plus the preceding silence is palpably frosty.

Who knows? I'd be surprised if it was some overly-clever meta-humour for the benefit of a tiny audience though.

QDRPHNC

That Shandling interview was like watching a Zen master toying with a student.

mr. logic

I have been rewatching Larry Sanders. It is typical to talk about the U.K. Office as an exception to the Gervais rule, which I subscribe to- it's very good. However, Sanders even compared to The Office is just a level above in its observance of how humans interact- it's beyond Gervais by miles and miles. And it suggests that Shandling, as well as his writers, are peerless in studying human intentions- which is why I suspect our Ricky got such short shrift in that interview there

mr. logic

I mean, Gervais is basically Hank isn't he

Replies From View

Quote from: Menu on June 03, 2022, 02:52:28 AMHe does say something inaudible right at the end but I'm still pretty sure it's still part of the fun. Gervais is doing his turning-a-switch-on-and-off-while-Les-Dennis-gets-his-cock-out fumbling schtick. I don't think he'd be doing that in an actual tense moment.

Yes there are some ruffling paper noises too which are just for awkward sound effects, and what Merchant mumbles at the end is part of the performance as well.

Very interesting that people are taking it at face value, though.  I never knew anyone would, but I've always heard it in the context of the entire episode rather than a clip.

Barry Admin

Quote from: mr. logic on June 03, 2022, 04:41:33 AMI have been rewatching Larry Sanders. It is typical to talk about the U.K. Office as an exception to the Gervais rule, which I subscribe to- it's very good. However, Sanders even compared to The Office is just a level above in its observance of how humans interact- it's beyond Gervais by miles and miles. And it suggests that Shandling, as well as his writers, are peerless in studying human intentions- which is why I suspect our Ricky got such short shrift in that interview there

There's a bit in the Shandling interview where he is remarking to Gervais about the nature of fame. He says that the result of your work is not who you are, and you can't get caught up in it, and that those who are famous and yet still want more are generally not the funniest people.

This is shortly after Gervais did one of his tedious "ironic" mentions of the amount of awards he wins.

Anyway, Shandling just nails him with that whole analysis. He smirks and makes it very clear he is talking specifically about Gervais the whole time. And he was absolutely right.  Gervais has always had this desperate desire to be famous - with no real love for the art of comedy - and it's been to the detriment of his art.

Here's Shandling's explanation:

https://youtu.be/PJthU3_CuiM

I could be wrong, but just get the sense that he's backtracking here, for some reason.

Replies From View

It's fair enough that he didn't want to manifest as a cunty responder to everyone favourite tubby funster.

Quote from: Ferris on June 03, 2022, 02:36:05 AMIf it's the same moment I'm thinking of, you can hear Merchant say "yeah I'm just not in the mood..." before the music fully cuts in.

Think it might be "just... it's not... I'm not... I'm not an invalid... 🎶take me out🎶".

GoblinAhFuckScary

enjoyed that interview. god gervais is SUCH a cunt

Barry Admin

Quote from: neov1974 on June 02, 2022, 08:00:55 PMthe thing with Gervais is how empowered he has been by the wider world

Any and all of Merchant, Pilkington, Davis, cast of the Office etc etc etc would have been insane not to ride the wave that Gervias found himself on.

I don't think any of it really reflects badly on themselves, Merchant (particularly) and Pilkington managed to stay on the surfboard and ride it home, everyone who came later can be forgiven for having realised that there's gold in them thar hills too, and Gervais is this bizarre and horrific passport to it.

The problem here is that it really diminishes the importance of Merchant, or indeed Pilkington. And we know that Merchant clearly brought the pathos and reeled in Gervais' worse instincts, whereas Pilkington provided Gervais with material that he's now spent twenty years regurgitating. Gervais just wanted more and more fame, while simultaneously projecting that onto Susan Boyle, Kim Kardashian, reality TV stars in general etc. It was obviously Gervais who made the second series of Extras so nauseatingly full of auto-fellatio, and the more fame and control he attained, the worse their actual comedy became.

What people tend to forget now is that David Brent wasn't even the big breakthrough part of The Office... Tim and Dawn were.

phes

Quote from: Barry Admin on June 03, 2022, 08:25:48 AMquote author=Barry Admin link=msg=4936618 date=1654241148]
What people tend to forget now is that David Brent wasn't even the big breakthrough part of The Office... Tim and Dawn were.

Anyone who remembers the UK Office in context is in a tiny fraction of his current fanbase. And he's spent 20 years rewriting history with his misunderstanding of the show and erasing of absolutely all former colleagues' contribution to his success

DigForVictory

I think Gervais and Merchant already started to rewrite and rebrand Brent as soon as the first series DVD when they were making the documentary for it. In that, they talk about how Brent isn't nasty and doesn't mean any harm he's just a buffoon.

Where as if you actually watch the first series Brent really is horrible and fairly nasty. He's bad tempered, thin skinned and arrogant and sexist and racist.

It's all hilarious , I think The Office series 1 in particular is close to perfect, but it's interesting how the rewriting began almost immediately.

Des Wigwam

Quote from: phes on June 03, 2022, 08:32:30 AMAnyone who remembers the UK Office in context is in a tiny fraction of his current fanbase. And he's spent 20 years rewriting history with his misunderstanding of the show and erasing of absolutely all former colleagues' contribution to his success

I keep meaning to learn a bit more about graph databases so an interesting use case might be the cast of The Office (UK) with edges as who has worked with whom (in different capacities). Be interesting to see the connections.

Sorry for ruining this thread and all of CaB with this post.

the science eel

Quote from: Barry Admin on June 02, 2022, 11:21:12 PMYou don't know that for sure, and we shouldn't be presuming new posters are trolls just because they like Gervais, or whatever. There should be more diversity of opinion on here, not less.

I agree completely, but it's really quite shocking to me sometimes to see how people who dare challenge the CaB consensus are dealt with, or just ignored altogether.

And there IS a CaB consensus around many things - it's unhealthy and often it's tiresome.

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: Des Wigwam on June 03, 2022, 09:26:51 AMI keep meaning to learn a bit more about graph databases so an interesting use case might be the cast of The Office (UK) with edges as who has worked with whom (in different capacities). Be interesting to see the connections.

Sorry for ruining this thread and all of CaB with this post.

I don't know, this reads like one of the most CAB posts I've ever read

idunnosomename

When hes getting off on the wrong foot with Shandling, he very deliberately touches him on the upper arm. I fucking hate it when jerks do that and had the exact same "don't touch me" reflex he did when I watched it. Gervais acts like a fucking ape throughout, poking and baring his teeth and his shrieking cackle. I wouldve chased him out of my house with a broom before he shat on my carpet.

TommyTurnips

Quote from: Barry Admin on June 03, 2022, 07:35:28 AMThere's a bit in the Shandling interview where he is remarking to Gervais about the nature of fame. He says that the result of your work is not who you are, and you can't get caught up in it, and that those who are famous and yet still want more are generally not the funniest people.

This is shortly after Gervais did one of his tedious "ironic" mentions of the amount of awards he wins.

Anyway, Shandling just nails him with that whole analysis. He smirks and makes it very clear he is talking specifically about Gervais the whole time. And he was absolutely right.  Gervais has always had this desperate desire to be famous - with no real love for the art of comedy - and it's been to the detriment of his art.

That might explain the laziness of the modern Gervais output such as your Derek's, your Afterlife's and your Netflix specials and it might be Gervais true talent. To create something that is not too shoddy to be universally panned but not so good that it is a great work of art, he has to hit that sweet spot where he is lazy enough to not put in too much effort but has to be good enough to get noticed by enough people who don't know better in order to keep the fame machine working. If this is the case, and the word IF is doing a lot of work here, then this might be the true genius of Ricky Gervais.

Barry Admin

Quote from: TommyTurnips on June 03, 2022, 12:02:43 PMThat might explain the laziness of the modern Gervais output such as your Derek's, your Afterlife's and your Netflix specials and it might be Gervais true talent. To create something that is not too shoddy to be universally panned but not so good that it is a great work of art, he has to hit that sweet spot where he is lazy enough to not put in too much effort but has to be good enough to get noticed by enough people who don't know better in order to keep the fame machine working. If this is the case, and the word IF is doing a lot of work here, then this might be the true genius of Ricky Gervais.

Yeah, agreed. He's always excelled at marketing himself, that's his actual skill.

Extras became all about "the legacy", and using the actual show to build him up as some kind of comedy legend, which was largely done by shitting on eveyone else as being inferior. He would start banging on about how edgy he was and that kind of thing. Also told a lot of bullshit lies about how he wanted small audiences to love their stuff, and that they weren't interested in having mass appeal.

This is around the time he started comparing his shows to Seinfeld and Larry Sanders, and would evoke Laurel and Hardy. Then he claimed that he and Merchant would move into drama and write "the British version of The Sopranos." LOL.

It was all about marketing and creating a kind of aspirational image, which people have bought into. Really, he's just bland and anodyne - comedys answer to Coldplay or Razorlight or whoever. His fans love to buy into the idea that he's an edgy, subversive comic, though.


grainger

Quote from: DigForVictory on June 03, 2022, 08:52:07 AMIn that, they talk about how Brent isn't nasty and doesn't mean any harm he's just a buffoon.

Where as if you actually watch the first series Brent really is horrible and fairly nasty. He's bad tempered, thin skinned and arrogant and sexist and racist.

And a lot of people (Youtube commenters, yes, I know) take the "Brent is OK really, he just wants to be accepted") line as fact. Gervais' BS seems to have stuck.

Menu

Quote from: Replies From View on June 03, 2022, 06:46:46 AMYes there are some ruffling paper noises too which are just for awkward sound effects, and what Merchant mumbles at the end is part of the performance as well.

Very interesting that people are taking it at face value, though.  I never knew anyone would, but I've always heard it in the context of the entire episode rather than a clip.

Oooh do you remember what happens in the next bit?

Menu

Quote from: DigForVictory on June 03, 2022, 08:52:07 AMI think Gervais and Merchant already started to rewrite and rebrand Brent as soon as the first series DVD when they were making the documentary for it. In that, they talk about how Brent isn't nasty and doesn't mean any harm he's just a buffoon.

Where as if you actually watch the first series Brent really is horrible and fairly nasty. He's bad tempered, thin skinned and arrogant and sexist and racist.

It's all hilarious , I think The Office series 1 in particular is close to perfect, but it's interesting how the rewriting began almost immediately.

Brent is definitely nasty - but no more so than anyone else on the show. I remember Parky introducing Gervais onto his chatshow by saying RG played "The Office monster David Brent" - and maybe it was that kind of description the writers were pushing back on. Brent's not a monster, he's just a frustrated narcissist who wants to be on the telly. I think the genius of the character is partly that it was prophetic of what the next two decades would spawn in terms of vain reality show celebs etc.