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A serial lawbreaking liar - Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson scandal thread 2

Started by Fambo Number Mive, April 19, 2022, 01:46:53 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Psybro

Quote from: Ferris on June 09, 2022, 10:07:08 PMAll seems very normal.



QuoteIn an interview with Sky News, asked if he was a good role model, she replied:

No, I don't think so. I wish he could be but he isn't and that is a bit sad.

I like Boris, I don't think he's a bad guy.

I don't know enough about what he's got up to but I do not think that he is a good role model for children.

Go on...

QuoteThe other day I saw a picture of him in the Metro and I looked at his hair and I thought - oh my goodness - we expect our children to have professional-looking hair.

Oh for FUCK'S SAKE

jobotic

I insist that my children have professional hair.

They are professional children, it's not a hobby.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Psybro on June 10, 2022, 12:05:23 PMGo on...

Oh for FUCK'S SAKE

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/may/22/uks-strictest-headmistress-fears-schools-will-stop-teaching-shakespeare


QuoteHer manifesto is based on 12 golden rules, which include: don't give children unsupervised access to the internet, teach them gratitude, keep your standards high, hold the line, and don't let them listen to grime or drill music because "that'll ruin their lives", she said.

"White middle-class people don't realise that, because their children can dip in and dip out and it's not an issue. Whereas your black kid in the inner city – it could literally destroy your life."

Thinking back to my time at school and Shakespeare I don't think I got much from it, mostly because the effort of untangling the prose left little room for processing any other deeper meaning and seeing how influential his work was. I know modern translations exist and I think perhaps focusing on that might actually help people to allow people to see beyond the archaic text. Of course reactionaries would oppose this and see it as dumbing down despite probably not understanding any more than I did.

Chollis


Butchers Blind



Blumf


Ferris

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on June 09, 2022, 11:09:11 PMI'd seen articles about her a few times and it just sounded she wanted to turn herself into a brand by copying the daycare owner of the Ayn Rand School for Tots, that she's been given a tsar position is horrific.

Yeah she's definitely doing this shit to become a media figure, maybe get a BBC job presenting something about schools or run as a tory MP.

That said, it's still pretty mindblowing that the person tasked with social mobility in the UK is telling working class kids to just forget it and become plumbers. And there's basically no push-back!

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Ferris on June 10, 2022, 01:29:06 PMThat said, it's still pretty mindblowing that the person tasked with social mobility in the UK is telling working class kids to just forget it and become plumbers. And there's basically no push-back!

It's even pretty mad when viewed through the bollocks Tory meritocracy lens isn't it? they love pointing out if a grocer's daughter could be PM then anyone can if they're good enough. I mean it's only used to have a chilling effect on lack of social mobility, but still.

Psybro

Why are we going to waste time with new grammar schools if people are already in their designated boxes?

Dex Sawash


gilbertharding

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on June 09, 2022, 11:09:11 PMI'd seen articles about her a few times and it just sounded she wanted to turn herself into a brand by copying the daycare owner of the Ayn Rand School for Tots, that she's been given a tsar position is horrific.

And you definitely can't criticise her because that would be racist.

TrenterPercenter


Posting this more for the incredible video title (and false advertising) but it is also quite good at pointing out how silly their desperate proposal to try and save Dear Leader actually is in reality.

pigamus

Quote from: gilbertharding on June 10, 2022, 02:41:28 PMAnd you definitely can't criticise her because that would be racist.

Ah... had I better delete that "Sideshow Birb" tweet then...

frajer

"Uncomfortable truths" indeed, state of that Birbalsingh bilge.

Welcome to "Know Your Place" by A. Hooray-Henry Dickhead.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on June 10, 2022, 12:19:27 PMhttps://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/may/22/uks-strictest-headmistress-fears-schools-will-stop-teaching-shakespeare


Thinking back to my time at school and Shakespeare I don't think I got much from it, mostly because the effort of untangling the prose left little room for processing any other deeper meaning and seeing how influential his work was. I know modern translations exist and I think perhaps focusing on that might actually help people to allow people to see beyond the archaic text. Of course reactionaries would oppose this and see it as dumbing down despite probably not understanding any more than I did.

I'm incredibly invested in the idea that canonical/classical literature should be available to poors and minorities, so shit like this makes me furious - it does more to devalue Shakespeare than any Americanisation or the worst YA "decolonise the curriculum" stuff you can fine online. Its taking great works and turning them into yardsticks to measure how cultured or integrated a student is. You can really see the contours of the ideology at work when you see Shakespeare or whatever used as an instrument of gatekeeping, but on the other side of the gate the attitude tends to be openly "fuck humanities, STEM forever" - the reading and promotion of classic works is not actually valued once its fulfilled its role as a turnstyle. When Tories and centrists bring up canonical works in regards to education standards, their ideal is Boris Johnson: someone who can parrot a few lines of Homer without even remembering the context or literal meaning, someone who can use obscure words for impact in an after dinner speech, rather than someone who can engage with a classical work and do something interesting with it or say something scholarly about it.

It's really about social division. I think a lot of the status around classic literature comes down to the fact you can't teach complicated or anachronistic texts in a big classroom. You can't even have a fruitful discussion or reading group about them with university educated adults if there's about twenty people there. Yet the best headmistress in Britain expects overworked English teachers to be able to teach Shakespeare to classes of thirty five or more.

I think most students who are become familiar with classic literature before they turn 19 either have a quiet room at home and a lot of free time or they're involved in weekend or after school activities. Having relatives or friends who can take the time to engage is irreplaceable, which is going to reenforce the class divide. On the other hand taking things outside of traditional classrooms is a great way to get minority and poor kids into literature, performing arts, aesthetics, philosophy, etc. because holy shit the interest is always there but austerity has ended all that. None of the stuff I attended as a teenager exists any more. And it can't exist because the physical locations aren't even accessible because they've been sold.

Video Game Fan 2000

and if you're really convinced about the universal value of canonical works then you wouldn't be worried that they'd evaporate off the face of earth in a single generation


monkfromhavana

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 10, 2022, 04:41:15 PMI'm incredibly invested in the idea that canonical/classical literature should be available to poors and minorities, so shit like this makes me furious - it does more to devalue Shakespeare than any Americanisation or the worst YA "decolonise the curriculum" stuff you can fine online. Its taking great works and turning them into yardsticks to measure how cultured or integrated a student is. You can really see the contours of the ideology at work when you see Shakespeare or whatever used as an instrument of gatekeeping, but on the other side of the gate the attitude tends to be openly "fuck humanities, STEM forever" - the reading and promotion of classic works is not actually valued once its fulfilled its role as a turnstyle. When Tories and centrists bring up canonical works in regards to education standards, their ideal is Boris Johnson: someone who can parrot a few lines of Homer without even remembering the context or literal meaning, someone who can use obscure words for impact in an after dinner speech, rather than someone who can engage with a classical work and do something interesting with it or say something scholarly about it.

It's really about social division. I think a lot of the status around classic literature comes down to the fact you can't teach complicated or anachronistic texts in a big classroom. You can't even have a fruitful discussion or reading group about them with university educated adults if there's about twenty people there. Yet the best headmistress in Britain expects overworked English teachers to be able to teach Shakespeare to classes of thirty five or more.

I think most students who are become familiar with classic literature before they turn 19 either have a quiet room at home and a lot of free time or they're involved in weekend or after school activities. Having relatives or friends who can take the time to engage is irreplaceable, which is going to reenforce the class divide. On the other hand taking things outside of traditional classrooms is a great way to get minority and poor kids into literature, performing arts, aesthetics, philosophy, etc. because holy shit the interest is always there but austerity has ended all that. None of the stuff I attended as a teenager exists any more. And it can't exist because the physical locations aren't even accessible because they've been sold.

Isn't this basically what they do with classical music as well. "Liking it" is seen as a signifier that you're above the riff-raff, even if you're active listening to it is whilst waving a Union Jack around at the proms.

Video Game Fan 2000

yes. and the total lack of interest and participation in classical and art music among the majority of people should be a cautionary tale to anyone whose concern about understanding and access to canonical literature is genuine and not just a soundbite for broadsheet shiteaters

I'd argue that classical music is more exclusionary as a form (and more exclusively european and male) than "the canon" (which contains work from the entire globe) as its a more recent invention and necessarily more institutional than literature. but even so "classical music" is the rightful property of everyone alive and ideally everyone should be able to understand Mozart if they feel understanding Mozart would contribute to their lives. even if the outcome is someone writing lots of books about how liking Mozart makes you a white supremacist, it belongs to them as much as anyone else

Sebastian Cobb

I think I learned more about classical music from some of the Lemmings compositions than school assemblies and music lessons.

olliebean

Honestly, teaching Shakespeare as literature is bullshit. It's not literature. It's intended to be performed and seen, not read. Teach it as drama.

bgmnts

To be fair, i'm assuming almost all of us with the slightest hint of inquisitiveness learnt infinitely more after or outside of school than actually at school. School's function isn't really to learn much beyond the basic's is it? Never felt that way anyway.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

I dunno. Isn't the point of getting your students to study a play or a novel to teach them how to analyse plot and themes and characters? Do they have to study a Shakespeare play (and its accompanying set of footnotes explaining what the words mean) to accomplish that? We studied Death of a Salesman and it's a great play, full of the evils of capitalism and generational trauma.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on June 10, 2022, 08:02:44 PMI dunno. Isn't the point of getting your students to study a play or a novel to teach them how to analyse plot and themes and characters? Do they have to study a Shakespeare play (and its accompanying set of footnotes explaining what the words mean) to accomplish that? We studied Death of a Salesman and it's a great play, full of the evils of capitalism and generational trauma.

Teaching students how to analyze structure and composition of fictional works is a much different thing, a different set of ideas and skill. A really effective way to do this is to take a recent or 20th century classic like Death of a Salesman or Of Mice and Man, and compare it to a piece of popular fiction. A really great teacher I knew used to show kids passages from a classic play, then play clips from Eastenders with similar themes to get the students engaged in how narrative is built in different contexts. If you've got the time, resources and a class small enough its a great way to do it.

With Shakespeare or other major canonical works, I think in general you're not really going to be talking about structure and composition but ideally giving students their first steps on the road to the big game like literary theory, aesthetics, how literature relates to other fields like philosophy (yay) and sociology (boo), historiography and the science of art etc. Of course its not necessary for everyone, I'd argue that the study of canonical works has a huge advantage for interdisciplinary education and research environments, which gives a much better prep to a world where different fields collide and, as the Americans like to say, intersect. Popular or contemporary fiction might have an advantage in teaching composition and writing skills, but its no replacement for teaching classics. If the goal is to teach "English" as both a language and a literary field its inexcusable not to have both available to everyone. Reading people like Michael Gove chime in about what should be on high school and university literature syllabi is a lot like reading someone chime in on teaching linguistic and being of the opinion that linguistics should only teach either written or spoken language, as if those two things were wholly seperate and didn't relate to each other.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 10, 2022, 08:42:08 PMTeaching students how to analyze structure and composition of fictional works is a much different thing, a different set of ideas and skill. A really effective way to do this is to take a recent or 20th century classic like Death of a Salesman or Of Mice and Man, and compare it to a piece of popular fiction. A really great teacher I knew used to show kids passages from a classic play, then play clips from Eastenders with similar themes to get the students engaged in how narrative is built in different contexts. If you've got the time, resources and a class small enough its a great way to do it.

With Shakespeare or other major canonical works, you're not really talking about structure and composition but ideally putting students on the road to the big game like literary theory, aesthetics, how literature relates to other fields like philosophy (yay) and sociology (boo), historiography and the science of art etc. I'd argue that the study of canonical works has a huge advantage for interdisciplinary education and research environments, which gives a much better prep to a world where different fields collide and, as the Americans like to say, intersect. Popular or contemporary fiction might have an advantage in teaching composition and writing skills, but its no replacement for teaching classics. If the goal is to teach "English" as both a language and a literary field its inexcusable not to have both available to everyone. Reading people like Michael Gove chime in about what should be on high school and university literature syllabi is a lot like reading someone chime in on teaching linguistic and being of the opinion that linguistics should only teach either written or spoken language, as if those two things were wholly seperate and didn't relate to each other.
Fair enough. That's why I'm not an English teacher.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on June 10, 2022, 08:43:38 PMFair enough. That's why I'm not an English teacher.

Me too. Too much emotional investment, hours of extra curricular work and then you're told that your class aren't allowed internet for budgetary reasons

kalowski

Quote from: Captain Z on June 07, 2022, 10:26:47 AMTwo watches, Jeremy? Two? That's insane.
No, no. Look. This watch business -- it doesn't really matter. The watches aren't important. A few friends call me Two Watches and that's all there is to it. I wish you'd ask me about the politics. Everybody talks about the watches. They've got it out of proportion -- I'm a politician. I'm going to get rid of the watches I'm fed up with it!


Then you'll be Jeremy 'No Watch' Hunt, eh?

Ferris

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on June 10, 2022, 06:13:17 PMI think I learned more about classical music from some of the Lemmings compositions than school assemblies and music lessons.

Genuinely couldn't tell you anything I learned about music from school, and I was (technically) a musician for a couple of years.

I have no qualifications in "music" (GCSEs, grades, A levels etc) at all and took it as a badge of pride after a while.

Sebastian Cobb

I remember the keyboards fed back to a console that allowed the teacher to monitor, and go ape-shit at us via microphone if we played any of the demo tracks (which is of course all anyone who doesn't know how to play a keyboard does when faced with one). Also people getting horrendous bollockings for sneaking up behind someone and twatting a pair of symbols behind them.