Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season

[NoSleep]

Spoiler alert

That was tense, but amazingly stupid. It's like it had a guest writer from another universe.
 Certain key characters suddenly stop acting like themselves, in service of getting chunks of plot in place.  They've not left themselves enough room to wrap this up.
 

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Spoiler alert

Be interested to know who acted out of character, because it seemed (to me) to follow some tenuous but logical threads to their conclusion/resolution.

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[Gulftastic]

Spoiler alert

A bit relieved that Lalo died from the initial shots. I was almost screaming 'double tap, Gustavo, DOUBLE TAP!!'.

So what was it he planted in the superlab to help him beat Lalo?'

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[druss]

Won't go so far to say that it jumped the shark but it's as close as it has gotten to it.

Spoiler alert

Lalo's plan was stupid because clearly Gus and Mike would be very suspect about what was happening and wouldn't do anything erratic. Except they did because the plot needed them to.

And obviously with a gun pointed at Gus and with victory in sight, Lalo wouldn't do an idiot Bond villain move. Except he did, because we know that Gus survives (taking all tension out of the situation) so that was the only thing that could happen.

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Quite annoyed after such a big build up, worst episode of the season for me.

[Mobbd]

I enjoyed it. I'll read everyone's criticisms of stupid plotting here with an open mind but I'll confess that my dumbbell detector didn't go off at all. I thought it was terrific.

Spoiler alert

I like that Lalo and Howard are in the foundations now, that they were there all along when we were watching Walt and Gale cook.

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I also like that from Mike's perspective,

Spoiler alert

Jimmy and Kimmy are basically the new Kettlemans. Haha.

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[buttgammon]

Spoiler alert

I like that Lalo and Howard are in the foundations now, that they were there all along when we were watching Walt and Gale cook.

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I also like that from Mike's perspective,

Spoiler alert

Jimmy and Kimmy are basically the new Kettlemans. Haha.

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Yes on both of those points!

Spoiler alert

I'll have a think about Gus and Mike but didn't find Lalo acting out of character. He was obviously a very smart and cunning operator who didn't live up to his usual standards there but the way he kept recording and talking when anyone else would've just shot Gus in the head reflected a real character flaw he has; as ever, in this universe, people make their own downfall, often because of sheer hubris. It was inevitable his luck was going to run out at some point but admittedly, I didn't expect it to be like that.

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[selectivememory]

Spoiler alert

I guess Lalo's plan did come together a little too conveniently, as there were so many moving parts he had to bank on going his way. Gus coming to the lab with minimal security seems a bit of a stretch now having seen the whole episode, but I didn't really question it while I was watching it, and I was pretty riveted throughout.

Could see Lalo's end coming a mile off since we already saw Fring plant the gun ages ago, but still, pretty satisfying on the whole. The whole Howard situation is desperately sad though. Poor fucker.

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[NoSleep]

Spoiler alert

Lalo's plan was stupid because clearly Gus and Mike would be very suspect about what was happening and wouldn't do anything erratic. Except they did because the plot needed them to.

And obviously with a gun pointed at Gus and with victory in sight, Lalo wouldn't do an idiot Bond villain move. Except he did, because we know that Gus survives (taking all tension out of the situation) so that was the only thing that could happen.

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Extra spoilery:

Spoiler alert

Lalo was clearly assuming he was sending Kim to her death, not knowing her relationship with Mike or knowing that Jimmy & Kim's apartment was usually guarded (as that was merely a coincidence that allowed Lalo easy access, arising from his phone call to Hector that sent the troops running to protect Gus). There was never a chance that Kim was going to gun down Gus at his doorstep, given the above; just a further distraction while Lalo inspected the launderette (which Gus guessed).
The bond-ism was to make his ass-licking film, which rung true enough (and he still had to prove Gus was a traitor). The real bond villains were his boss (Don Eladio) and Gus.

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[Mobbd]

I think it's fair game to post without spoiler tags now, so don't read unless you've watched it.

On the day of broadcast? Doesn't bother me any but I think we should continue to tag if we ever tag.

[selectivememory]

I'll edit my post then. But I don't know why anyone would come into this thread before seeing the latest episode after it's been broadcast.

[NoSleep]

Inadvertently?

[selectivememory]

I guess. Never mind anyway. Edited my post so it's not an issue.

[up_the_hampipe]

Spoiler alert

Lalo fell for the ol' distraction monologue. Rookie mistake. RIP ya goof!

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Great episode though. Went by way too quickly.

I'll admit I was fooled at first when

Spoiler alert

Jimmy suggested sending Kim. I thought he went into self-preservation mode and that would be the breaking point of their relationship. But they were actually willing to die and kill for each other. Aww!

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[Old Nehamkin]

Agree with selectivememory. Never understood why there should be a need to cover everything in spoiler tags after a new episode has been officially released in a thread specifically marked for discussion of the latest season of the show. Makes the thread needlessly awkward to read.

*Discussion of 608 follows for any weirdos clicking into this thread without having watched it:

I thought this one had some tense and fun moments but I dunno, as a resolution to the Gus/Lalo conflict it all felt a bit contrived and inelegant. Feels like the writers backed themselves into a bit of a corner by making Lalo such a prominent character while also wanting to keep his storyline in a hermetically sealed bubble that doesn't upset the existing Breaking Bad canon but I still think they should've been able to come up with a conclusion for his character that was a bit smarter and more impactful. As it is his role in the show has ended up feeling like a bit of a shaggy-dog sideshow. I feel like Tony Dalton deserved a bit better, honestly. The moments in this ep where Jimmy formulates his cry of "it wasn't me, it was Ignacio!" and where Mike non-explicitly reassures Jimmy that Lalo is taken care of felt like the writers trying to check off the remaining ambiguous points about Jimmy's relationship with Lalo in a bit too much of a neat and workmanlike way.

[NoSleep]

As it is his role in the show has ended up feeling like a bit of a shaggy-dog sideshow.

It always had to be, as we know he is just a name-drop in BB. What were the show makers meant to do, given Dalton's brilliant portrayal, other than run with it? That said, Nacho and Lalo are mere appetisers before the disappearance of Kim.

[Old Nehamkin]

It always had to be, as we know he is just a name-drop in BB. What were the show makers meant to do, given Dalton's brilliant portrayal, other than run with it? That said, Nacho and Lalo are mere appetisers before the disappearance of Kim.

I don't know, really. But my gut feeling is that they could have found a way to conclude his arc that would have coloured or enriched the BB/BCS universe in a more fundamental, surprising way. Having him just end up as another Salamanca who Gus checked off his list without it really affecting the greater scheme of things just feels a bit limp for how much build-up the character has had - although I'd maybe feel less disappointed if that final confrontation was just a bit less contrived.

[NoSleep]

Given both Lalo and Gus have been shown to have OCD traits it was bound to be contrived.

[Weeping Prophet]

The unplanned break didn't help. Things that should've been on the tip of everyone's memory had slipped away, in a show that expects you to remember everything anyway.

[lankyguy95]

How had Lalo worked out the exact timing that Gus's "bald gringo gets here with the cavalry"?

Gus, Mike and Lalo having superhero perception except for when the plot needed them not to made the episode a bit clunky. I agree with Old Nehamkin on it being a slightly disappointing way for Lalo to go out. Not a bad episode but I don't know...there seems to be a lot more clunky plotting this season that I don't remember being the case in the first five seasons.

[up_the_hampipe]

How had Lalo worked out the exact timing that Gus's "bald gringo gets here with the cavalry"?

He set up Jimmy's apartment as the ruse and presumably knew the amount of time it would take to get from there to the laundromat, so he'd have enough time to show Don Eladio the lab. He didn't anticipate Gus turning up, though, at least that's what he said.

The end with Lalo went about how I expected. I always thought he served as a way to ultimately show that Gus is one step ahead. Sure, Lalo was very smart and had them on the ropes, but he's still a Salamanca thwarted by his hubris and you should never underestimate the Chicken Man.

[lankyguy95]

He set up Jimmy's apartment as the ruse and presumably knew the amount of time it would take to get from there to the laundromat, so he'd have enough time to show Don Eladio the lab. He didn't anticipate Gus turning up, though, at least that's what he said.

But that requires him to know that they would definitely go to Jimmy's, at a specific time, and then realise at a particular moment that Lalo wasn't there and he'd therefore be at the laundromat, even though they're not aware he knows the location of the lab(?), and then travel there at just the right speed for Lalo to be correct.

I guess Lalo could have been wrong about it – we never find out – but it appeared to me like the writers trying to contrive Lalo basically being a superhuman genius about something he couldn't possibly have known or had any certainty of.

Unless I've missed something key.

[Weeping Prophet]

But that requires him to know that they would definitely go to Jimmy's, at a specific time, and then realise at a particular moment that Lalo wasn't there and he'd therefore be at the laundromat, even though they're not aware he knows the location of the lab(?), and then travel there at just the right speed for Lalo to be correct.

I've only watched it once, but no, Lalo wouldn't have to know any of that. He's throwing every possible red herring at Gus to allow him access to the lab. He sees Gus arrive without Mike, and can infer that Mike is the one calling him.

[MigraineBoy]

The one thing I didn't like was the pre-credits teaser.

It showed going in Howard's death was going to be fixed as a suicide & then we have Mike explain it exactly as we'd seen.  In comparison to earlier eps having stuff like the paperweight being cast & molded or the desert rain falling on the broken glass, it seemed very on-the-nose.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

I dunno, it all worked for me. His plan was about getting evidence of the lab to Eladio after all. That's why he said would have preferred to help Don Eladio skin him alive or whatever. He just didn't think Gus would figure him out. And the Bond villain "let him do a speech instead of just shooting him" thing worked for me too. Pride comes before a fall and all that. Ego is ultimately what did for Walt, Hank, Jack and Gus, among others. It's a running theme. It's also why Gus impulsively going to the lab worked for me because we already know from BB that his hatred for Salamancas trumps his usual cautiousness.

[NoSleep]

He set up Jimmy's apartment as the ruse and presumably knew the amount of time it would take to get from there to the laundromat, so he'd have enough time to show Don Eladio the lab. He didn't anticipate Gus turning up, though, at least that's what he said.

The end with Lalo went about how I expected. I always thought he served as a way to ultimately show that Gus is one step ahead. Sure, Lalo was very smart and had them on the ropes, but he's still a Salamanca thwarted by his hubris and you should never underestimate the Chicken Man.

Jimmy's place is a red herring and a complete coincidence (that it happens to be unprotected due to Lalo's attempts to rally Gus' troops away from the launderette) . Lalo doesn't know Jimmy's (and Kim's) relationship with Gus or Mike; Kim is being sent to (allegedly) kill somebody who he assumes neither of them know. The "set-up" is Kim turning up at a stranger's house and shooting whoever opens the door (which is supposed to distract Mike and his henchmen; instead, it alerts them; well, eventually).

[NoSleep]

I liked Gus' surprise that Jimmy had changed Lalo's mind.

[Mr. Ssmsslth]

I thought this one had some tense and fun moments but I dunno, as a resolution to the Gus/Lalo conflict it all felt a bit contrived and inelegant. Feels like the writers backed themselves into a bit of a corner by making Lalo such a prominent character while also wanting to keep his storyline in a hermetically sealed bubble that doesn't upset the existing Breaking Bad canon but I still think they should've been able to come up with a conclusion for his character that was a bit smarter and more impactful. As it is his role in the show has ended up feeling like a bit of a shaggy-dog sideshow. I feel like Tony Dalton deserved a bit better, honestly. The moments in this ep where Jimmy formulates his cry of "it wasn't me, it was Ignacio!" and where Mike non-explicitly reassures Jimmy that Lalo is taken care of felt like the writers trying to check off the remaining ambiguous points about Jimmy's relationship with Lalo in a bit too much of a neat and workmanlike way.

Completely agree with all of this. Nonetheless, the first half was pretty great and Rhea Seehorn in particular was excellent, I found, even though she didn't really have that much screen time.

[lankyguy95]

I've only watched it once, but no, Lalo wouldn't have to know any of that. He's throwing every possible red herring at Gus to allow him access to the lab. He sees Gus arrive without Mike, and can infer that Mike is the one calling him.

I think it's just the gun pointing at Gus (and shooting him) that is why he complies with Lalo, rather than Lalo counting down the time it'll take for Mike and co to arrive. Hence why Lalo continued referencing it inside the lab. Whether he was blagging a little or not, I think it was most likely just a way for the writers to create a countdown to the final action. Lalo gives Gus one final minute, Gus delivers his spiel to the camera, Lalo lets him finish, announces "You're done" but for some reason gives him another five seconds. It's not terrible but it is a bit bad Bond villain, as someone said earlier.

Completely agree with all of this. Nonetheless, the first half was pretty great and Rhea Seehorn in particular was excellent, I found, even though she didn't really have that much screen time.

She plays distress really well.

[billyandthecloneasaurus]

Inadvertently?

Unlikely

[Weeping Prophet]

It's my fault for reading fan speculation but a lot of people predicted that

Spoiler alert

Lalo would be buried in the lab. I'm not sure anyone predicted that Hank would be buried there with him.

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[NoSleep]

It's my fault for reading fan speculation but a lot of people predicted that

Spoiler alert

Lalo would be buried in the lab. I'm not sure anyone predicted that Hank would be buried there with him.

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That's seriously going to screw with the BB timeline.