Fourth Jab

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Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but, if stocks are available, why aren't governments moving towards fourth jabs by now? Surely it would drastically help prevent any big new variant from kicking off too badly, and would enable everyone to get back to normality faster. I know Israel have started the process there, and it feels obvious that we are going to need one anyway so why not get moving? And then immediately begin the planning for a fifth one. Is it that the scientists can't guarantee its safety, or is it purely a resources issue, or is it something else? I'm probably being UNBELIEVABLY DENSE.

[beanheadmcginty]

Jab fatigue? I know they're not particularly troublesome to endure, but surely even the most enthusiastic fan of vaccinations will get a bit bored by the prospect of 4 or 5 of the same old jabs? If it turns out to be necessary then I think they'd need some sort of reboot/rebrand to keep things a bit tasty.

[bgmnts]

Haven't even had my third yet!

[olliebean]

I've seen a suggestion that due to the way the immune system works, having too many vaccines against the same thing in too short a time can lead to them being less effective, and this may be why booster protection against infection is wearing off more quickly. Long-term, if boosters continue to be required, once a year seems to be about the right amount. Barring a new variant that is more severe than Omicron and sufficiently evasive of current immunity that it needs a new vaccine, and apart from clinically vulnerable people for whom the initial course was 3 jabs, I'd be surprised if a fourth jab is offered until next autumn/winter.

[gilbertharding]

Yeah, whenever I've heard 4th jabs discussed by people who know about this stuff, they've been saying that the 4th jab, when it comes, will be against a new variant, whatever that is (like some of us get a flu jab every year against what they hope that year's strain will be).

The same people have dismissed (eg) Israel's 4th Jab programme as 'jumping the gun'.

Note -  I last listened to anyone on this subject before xmas. This might have changed.

The feeling was that Omicron will have blown out by spring, if not before. The next wave won't be until next winter, so the next phase of vaccine should be preparing for that. But now is too soon.

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Haven't even had my third yet!

Weirdly hubristic.

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Jab fatigue? I know they're not particularly troublesome to endure, but surely even the most enthusiastic fan of vaccinations will get a bit bored by the prospect of 4 or 5 of the same old jabs? If it turns out to be necessary then I think they'd need some sort of reboot/rebrand to keep things a bit tasty.

Fatigue in the sense of having to deal with the anti-vax idiots on social media(and in some parts of the mainstream media) or that the public would be hesitant?

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I've seen a suggestion that due to the way the immune system works, having too many vaccines against the same thing in too short a time can lead to them being less effective, and this may be why booster protection against infection is wearing off more quickly. Long-term, if boosters continue to be required, once a year seems to be about the right amount. Barring a new variant that is more severe than Omicron and sufficiently evasive of current immunity that it needs a new vaccine, and apart from clinically vulnerable people for whom the initial course was 3 jabs, I'd be surprised if a fourth jab is offered until next autumn/winter.

So it's basically because it wouldn't be of enough use against a new variant that might emerge tomorrow? In which case, assuming that a new variant is pretty likely, do you think they are/should be planning a 4th jab now?

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Yeah, whenever I've heard 4th jabs discussed by people who know about this stuff, they've been saying that the 4th jab, when it comes, will be against a new variant, whatever that is (like some of us get a flu jab every year against what they hope that year's strain will be).

The same people have dismissed (eg) Israel's 4th Jab programme as 'jumping the gun'.

Note -  I last listened to anyone on this subject before xmas. This might have changed.

The feeling was that Omicron will have blown out by spring, if not before. The next wave won't be until next winter, so the next phase of vaccine should be preparing for that. But now is too soon.

I thought I heard that the booster was only properly effective for about ten weeks. Is that not the case?

[bgmnts]

Weirdly hubristic.

Ha.

Well now I'm a bit concerned why I haven't had my third yet, had to delay it in December due to my grandad passing but I think I'm getting it in February. So I hope I won't need a fourth jab straight after.

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If it's any help I got my booster dates wrong and turned up a month early and they gave me it anyway. I didn't even have to explain myself. There's also loads of drop-in centres. I'm probably telling you things you already know but I'm saying them just in case....

[gilbertharding]

I thought I heard that the booster was only properly effective for about ten weeks. Is that not the case?

I think that the booster 'starts to lose effectiveness after 10 weeks' isn't quite the same as (and I'm not saying this is what you've said - but I've heard it said) 'it stops working after 10 weeks'.

I had my 3rd jab in early December, so I've got about half a month of full strength protection.

But in 10 weeks it will be spring, when cases will probably start to fall naturally. And in 10 weeks Omicron will have gone.

The hypothetical 4th jab you're talking about will most likely have a) worn off by the time the next wave comes in late autumn and b) not be effective anyway because it'll be a new variant no-one knows what it is yet.

Is what I've gleaned from listening to experts. I wish I could remember who it was - they were on Radio 4 when we were driving to the in-laws for xmas.

[olliebean]

To be clear, it's the protection against infection that significantly wanes after 10 weeks. Protection against severe illness seems to be holding up a lot better.

[Crenners]

There will be no jab for Ebola-19

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Thanks for all your responses, lads. This is a very knowledgeable place.

[superthunderstingcar]

I've had a fourth jab. Go team CEV!

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I've had a fourth jab. Go team CEV!

You lucky cunt.