Judd Apatow retrospective

[Memorex MP3]

Sounds like his 125 minute long new lockdown comedy is a new low, which is impressive considering how self absorded and detached from reality This Is 40 was. Figured it'd be a good time to look back on his career, was he ever any good? what were his strengths? is he still capable of anything good or is he just long long gone at this stage?

Don't really know his earlier TV stuff (e.g. Ben Stiller Show) but I do tend to credit him for Freaks and Geeks being so great (very much as a producer; casting and building out the writing team) and he probably made Girls a lot better than it would've been without him. Love was an absolute disaster but I dunno how that could've been salvaged with Paul Rust there.

I've always thought the films he wrote were capable of being pretty funny in a limited way but almost always had an aspiration for worthiness which virtually guaranteed around the half way point they'd suddenly try to be serious and lose all humour, always running way longer than they should too. I do on the whole like a bunch of Apatow produced films but his instincts seemed to spread into a lot of these comedy films in general... On the whole it's hard to view him as anything other than a net negative and a major reason why comedy films don't seem to be capable of remaining funny for the bulk of their runtime anymore.



Anyways yeah, what Judd Apatow did you like at all? Can you remember a point where you soured on him (maybe Funny People) or warmed to him (maybe the Shandling doc)?

[Thomas]

A few months ago my partner and I stuck 40-Year-Old Virgin on. Never seen it before. Steve Carrell. Thought it might decent for Friday pizza + a laugh. Full shite, off after 15 minutes. I'm a completist, I rarely switch off. Just that sort of boyish teenage sleepover crap 'that you wouldn't get away with nowadays' (in reality, you just hope nobody would bother making it nowadays, because it's crap). I've never really got on with all that SNL cast, Paul Rudd improv, 'o-kaayyyyy, so that just happened' stuff.

I was loosely intrigued by The Bubble because Karen Gillan's in it, but then I learned it was a Judd vehicle and nah'd it off.

Best thing Judd's been involved in is Triumph the Insult Comic Dog's coverage of This Is 40.

[chutnut]

Love was great imo, I didn't manage to make it to the end of The King of Staten Island though

[checkoutgirl]

Anyways yeah, what Judd Apatow did you like at all?

As a director he's done very little any good that I can see which is surprising but it's because he has his name on loads of stuff he produced but didn't direct, and his produced films are much more well known. I'd say a good handful of films he's produced have been enjoyable, stuff like Talladega Nights, Anchorman, Stepbrothers, Bridesmaids was okay.

Freaks and Geeks is fantastic, top 50 comedies ever probably. And he directed and wrote a bunch of Larry Sanders which is heavily to his credit. He's basically a one man industry and he's inevitably done his fair share of shite.

He's not someone whose work or name attachment I'd ever keep an eye on but in fairness he's definitely had his moments. Is he a net gain? I don't like to judge it like that. If a producer does 9 terrible shows or films and 1 brilliant one just ignore the chaff and watch the good one. That's a positive.

Can he be blamed for comedy films being worse in general? It's a bit like blaming Stephen Merchant for the rise of docucomedy, maybe it was going that way anyway?

[QDRPHNC]

Out of the ones he's directed, I quite liked Knocked Up.

Yeah, after all the praise 40 Year Old Virgin got, I thought it was pretty lame. The chest-waxing scene was one of those where I wonder if I'm watching the same thing as other people, because all I heard was how funny it was and Steve Carrell's reactions were real, but to me he just seemed to be very obviously over-egging it, even though I'm sure the pain was genuine.

The movie bothered me on a deeper level too, because I know a 40 year old virgin, and a movie actually exploring issues of extreme shyness and introversion and low self esteem could have been really interesting, but no. Steve Carrell has hot women trying to have to sex with him quite frequently it seems, they just end up vomiting up his ass or falling of a building or something.

[famethrowa]

He just has to put his missus in everything he does (has she ever had a job anywhere else?) which is fair dos I guess, but do we need for the other characters to be given lines about how hot/brilliant/talented she is? More fictional than Star Wars.

[dead-ced-dead]

I think the frustrating thing with Judd Apatow's directorial output is that there is often a decent 90 minute movie hiding in the 2h 30 minute mass. I find this to be true of The 40 Year-Old Virgin, Knocked Up, Trainwreck and The King of Staten Island.

Cut out a lot of the improv focus on the romcom main plot and not the dudebro side characters, you've got a decent 7/10 movie there.

[phantom_power]

I quite enjoyed The Bubble. It is too long (obv), starts quite slowly and is a bit too broad in its Hollywood satire but the character stuff is pretty good and it gets better as it goes on until the ridiculous finale.

[madhair60]

I liked Knocked Up, Funny People and Love, but they're really staggeringly self-indulgent insider Hollywood shit and it is in no way surprising that people aren't prepared to put up with that.

[up_the_hampipe]

Genuinely love Knocked Up and Funny People. The 40 Year Old Virgin might not hold up that well, but there's still stuff in there I find hilarious. Trainwreck and The King of Staten Island were the point where the runtimes became a problem, but again there's pockets of funny scattered throughout.

I tried The Bubble and I couldn't believe this was written by someone with so many accomplished years in the business. I'll give it a proper go if it's supposed to get better, but if there's much more Karen Gillan attempting comedy then I'm not sure.

[McChesney Duntz]

He co-wrote Walk Hard, let us not forget.

[Memorex MP3]

The King of Staten Island

Jesus... 135 minutes of Pete Davidson...

I'd need to revisit it but Knocked Up was the most schizophrenic I thought, last hour or so almost laugh free. Think it was probably the peak of the more bro-y elements and maybe has aged a bit poorly since due to that.



The thing about the Bubble that blows my mind is that he even thought to do it; I'd've thought that kind of idea would've been viewed as beneath him a bit tbh, it's so crappy and has such a high risk of being actively repulsive to an audience at this point in time. To actively pursue with it seems like he must've been convinced it was going to be amazing.

[Better Midlands]

Freaks & Geeks was fantastic and I can still watch Superbad now and enjoy it the whole way through, introduced them both to my youngest daughter when she was about 12/13 (SB is one of her favourite comedy films to this day).

Undeclared was pretty good too IIRC, haven't rewatched since it was released though, I like Jay Baruchel - Man Seeking Woman was fun.

I was 40 when This Is 40 came out, it didn't speak to me.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Walk Hard alone should earn everyone involved a lifetime pass (to Whipsnade Zoo or something). Add that to Anchorman, Freaks and Geeks, Superbad etc. and I reckon he's got a pretty strong comedy legacy.

Trainwreck and King of Staten Island are the only ones he's directed that I've seen. I didn't like them as much as the other things, but they were still alright. I was surprised by how much I liked the latter, considering how tiresome and overexposed Pete Davidson seems to be.

[Better Midlands]

I watched KOSI too and thought it was alright, it's the only thing I've seen PD in and he was pretty decent, I can't really remember much about it now though.

[checkoutgirl]

I like Jay Baruchel

So you're his fan. Any time I've seen him in a film it's created pure bafflement as to why he has a career at all. He's like air, he's just there.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I watched KOSI too and thought it was alright, it's the only thing I've seen PD in and he was pretty decent, I can't really remember much about it now though.

It helps that he's basically playing himself, warts and all. That showed a surprising level of humility.

[curiousoranges]

I know a 40 year old virgin

His name is Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo.

[QDRPHNC]

His name is Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo.

I have a son I'm almost positive is mine.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

He also co-wrote You Don't Mess with the Zohan, which has a lot of good moments for an Adam Sandler vehicle.

I agree that he needs some self-discipline with the material he keeps in a film. A lot of the ad-libs he fights for would be better suited for a bonus feature on DVD or the end credits, and it makes the end result lose focus. And it makes him shoot everything with a lazy setup and unimaginative photography as he tries to maintain continuity.

Yet, the thing that made me realize that he had no Midas touch was Year One, which he produced. Totally abyssal comedy, made worse by being the final thing Harold Ramis ever directed.

[Mobius]

He did Larry Sanders and that lovely Larry Sanders documentary so he's alright.

[phantom_power]

such a high risk of being actively repulsive to an audience at this point in time

Why would it be respulsive?

[dissolute ocelot]

He's often hailed with introducing a bit more humanity to gross-out comedies, but the Farrelly brothers did something similar. He certainly had his own aesthetic, which was looser and a bit more true to life (although less so in 40 Year Old Virgin which is much broader and more traditional).

Knocked Up is pretty funny, despite criticisms of its view of women (I guess most comedies are mildly misogynistic or misandric or something). Funny People is quite interesting although not very funny, but it works well as a character study and gets good performances out of Adam Sandler and Seth Rogen. I enjoyed Trainwreck which he directed from Amy Schumer's script; it's probably more focused as a comedy than most of his own writing.

Freaks and Geeks is very good, obvs. Undeclared was an entertaining sitcom that's probably still underrated, a good mix of silliness and more human emotions, and Jay Baruchel is actually good in it (Charlie Humman on the other hand - I think everyone thought that was the worst English accent in TV history despite him actually being English).

In his achievements, he's produced a lot of good films, and worked with a lot of talented people, even if his biggest protege is probably Seth Rogen, whose career is itself hit and miss (mainly bong hits). He's also played a role in the careers of Lena Dunham, Pete Davidson, and James Franco, but is that his fault?

[sevendaughters]

I kept getting him confused with Joss Whedon and it is only now I look at his CV and realise they are very different.

Freaks and Geeks is great, but I think of it as Paul Feig's baby. He's also down the pecking order of importance on Larry Sanders too. The rest I dislike to differing degrees. Funny People was insider shit that went on way too long. I think he's accelerated the dumb comedy landscape, but he has hits and a good CV and some of the work exhibits a nudge and a wink. Ho, and indeed, hum. File alongside Lorne Michaels as Guys I Don't Get.

[Memorex MP3]

Why would it be respulsive?

Repulsive is a bit excessive, but who wants to watch a covid lockdown comedy right now? and how likely is it to misgauge the public mood between production and release

Freaks and Geeks is great, but I think of it as Paul Feig's baby.

It's a better narrative but I don't see it; Apatow was very involved from pretty early on and so much of what makes it work is down to the casting, which he was all over. Feig hasn't really shown any evidence of anything especially connected to Freaks and Geeks since either (unless I've missed it) whereas I'd say a lot of the weaker serious parts of some Apatow films seem to be aspiring towards the warmth of that show.

I tend to think Mike White was probably a more important element than he ever gets credit for, he's extremely talented at giving some level of humanity to absolute losers




Outside of Paul Rust in Love, I'd say he's been very good at casting in general, seems to have a good read for when someone is ready to lead a major film, finds decent roles for new people too.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

Freaks and Geeks was based on Paul Feig's childhood. He later wrote Kick Me, a book in the same tone.

And don't forget Jake Kasdan's involvement. He did a lot to define the style of the show.

But, even if he has these shortcomings as a writer and director, mostly self-indulgence, Apatow deserves a lot of credit for finding the cast or putting together the writers room. Just like he had done on The Ben Stiller Show and a few other things.

[Shaky]

Watched The Bubble last night and it's shockingly bad - thin characters, terrible execution of first-draft ideas, and stuffed with those jarring, unfunny semi-improv lines that always seem to revolve around actors saying "cock" and "balls" a lot. Excruciatingly embarrassing for all involved.

[mhmhmh]

As above, the Larry Sanders doc is top notch, it's on Amazon for 2.49 or something. He's on Bill Maher's podcast if you want to hear more from him.

[Famous Mortimer]

He's on Bill Maher's podcast

My parents could come back from the grave and tell stories about how much they loved me, and if they were doing it on Bill Maher's podcast I still wouldn't listen.