"‘Forgotten how to behave’: comics say audiences more abusive post-lockdown"

[sutin]

Surely the people who claim they don't realise why it's annoying for the guy stood in front of you to be scrolling through eBay are the same people who you see missing most of the gig because they're doing something very important on their phone

Nope. Unless his phone was the size of a tractor it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the gig at all. I'm looking at the stage, not his phone.

[jobotic]

Shame. You missed the chance to gazump him on a wonderful old pull rod.

[Zetetic]

@sutin , do you record none, some or all of your sexual encounters?

(I have a terrible episodic memory, but I can't be doing with documenting my life to make up for it. Mostly defer to my partner, and just have to accept that some of the time they'll deliberately or otherwise make up parts of my life, like supposedly showing them Armageddon (1998).)

[Replies From View]

Gonna go out on a limb here and say that whilst there's obviously a limit to what's acceptable - much the same as there's a limit to everything - I don't think it's that unreasonable or unusual for a generation of people living through the advent of incredible technology to feel compelled to use it to capture a little bit of the joy they're experiencing so they can look back on it with fondness or show their friends to share some semblance of the experience.

Semblance of a semblance, since the wonder of nature is no longer just for itself, it's for the dopamine hit of 15 acquaintances hitting 'like' on the short video they've filmed of the thing they were only able to half-experience.

The entire state of affairs is abysmal.

[Replies From View]

I'm jealous that you have such an awesome brain that you can store these wonderous things in there for the rest of your life and recall them vividly at will. I really am.

It's about living in the moment though, isn't it.  When you're dwelling on the preservation you're not experiencing it in the moment.  You're replacing the original wonder with the facsimile.  And you'll be able to look at it and remember the day you were engaged in archiving it.

If you doubt this, go out for a day without your phone and see how you experience things differently.

[Replies From View]

Nope. Unless his phone was the size of a tractor it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the gig at all. I'm looking at the stage, not his phone.

I'm calling bullshit on your experience and knowledge of this.  If it had happened to you, you'd know that we're talking about distracting rectangles of piercing light beaming out from all angles in your peripheral vision, effecting your ability to focus on the stage because your pupils adjust to the light and shrink accordingly, fucking it all up.

Nowhere is safe - I've been to classical concerts where it's happened.  Trying to focus on a pianist's fingers while someone in front of me tries their selfish hand at being a documentarian for 20 or more minutes at a time.  15 years ago people tried not to fidget during quiet music, out of fear their creaky chair would distract everyone.  There has been a cultural shift since then, with people increasingly treating shared spaces as extensions of their own living rooms:  I will chat, eat, fiddle with my phone as I please.  If it annoys you that's your own problem.

You would know this was annoying if you'd experienced it.

[Stoneage Dinosaurs]

While I agree that making a 10 minute video at a gig or whatever is taking the piss, I spent the first 20 or so years of my life living in the moment without a smartphone, and let me tell you, it was fucking rubbish

[Replies From View]

I think the ideal solution has to be the venue or artist filming the gig and then making it available fairly inexpensively to audience members who want a memento. This means everyone can be present at the gig without either filming it or being distracted by bright screens, while everyone who wants one gets a copy. But not every artist is going to agree to this (even though it has to be better than amateur footag being taken anyway) and not every audience member will want to part with the money.

The artist should get to choose the version of their music/comedy that is recorded for posterity, and this is exactly what happens when there are DVD releases and streamed versions of specific performances put out there on sites like NextUp.  Paying to see a live performance gives any audience the opportunity to buy a programme if they want, or further books/CDs/DVDs by the performer and support them.  I suppose if people want a memory of their brilliant day they could have an Alton Towers photo set-up where they can buy a photo of themselves sitting in the theatre, but I'm quite certain people aren't wanting to preserve memories, they're wanting to get 'likes' on an Instagram feed.

Taking it in good faith, an audience is nevertheless being unreasonable if they think they have a right to have their specific evening available for posterity.  If an artist doesn't want all those versions out there, it's up to them.  Part of the appeal of going to anything live is that you get what's not expected, it's not repeatable and you can't see it exactly like that ever again.  Knowing these things is what gives live performance the buzz it has.

It bugs me enormously how entitled audiences have become, possibly due to the shallow attention/engagement trained into people by social media apps.  People think they have a right to share shallow fragments of every aspects of their lives and will steamroll over everything and everyone to serve that right.  And they'll do it completely obliviously as well, completely astonished that people who have paid to be in a venue wouldn't want to become a background artist in a stranger's narcissistic soap opera.

[Brundle-Fly]

Great post Replies from View.

Quite often, a hazy memory of an event is better to cherish. Looking at old cameraphone footage could be rather like revisiting a beloved film after many years; it isn't nearly as good as you remember. I don't believe filming on cameraphones should be allowed at comedy gigs/ theatre / cinema/ Kate Bush concerts/ funerals/to play pranks on strangers in public spaces.

[Replies From View]

While I agree that making a 10 minute video at a gig or whatever is taking the piss, I spent the first 20 or so years of my life living in the moment without a smartphone, and let me tell you, it was fucking rubbish

Your own fault for sharpening the pencils before eating them.

[Autopsy Turvey]

It's tricky because although I would never dream of filming any bit of any stand-up performance, I wish to goodness there had been more of these bastards making nuisances of themselves with recording equipment at gigs in the old days. No recording seems to exist of Jack Douglas or Bill Maynard doing their variety turns, or of the early Comedy Store acts who didn't get on the Comic Strip LP, and I remember Phill Jupitus lamenting the fact that neither he nor anyone else thought to record his mid-90s Star Wars show, and he's forgotten most of it. I remember it being the best thing he ever did, which granted isn't saying much. So I do wish I'd recorded more comedy performances, albeit surreptitiously; the idea of waving your arm in the air and going 'look at me I am bootlegging your concert!' still seems horrifyingly cunty.

[Rizla]

I think the ideal solution has to be the venue or artist filming the gig and then making it available fairly inexpensively to audience members who want a memento.

Trouble is as soon as you're manufacturing any sort of record, be it physical or digital, you are obliged to pay mechanical royalties to the copyright holders, ie songwriters/authors. I guess it's possible to waive these if, say, the artist is also the copyright holder and is happy to sign away their rights, but then even a snippet of a cover version, samples or whatever, you could be in serious breach. This is also why you get youtube takedowns - by uploading someone else's IP you've technically "manufactured" something.

In the old days, unscrupulous types would often sneak recording equipment into gigs and make "bootleg" tapes or even vinyl records to be sold at markets, record fairs and even the odd devil-may-care record shop. Highly illegal but often very profitable. The law is still the same today, it's just that youtube etc has taken the place of the shop/fair/market.  Profit's still being made from illegal exploitation of intellectual property.

[The Guppy]

You can use your phone at a gig if you hide under your jacket like you're lighting a fag in a blizzard. If light escapes and hits someone's retina, you're a shit.

[Ron Maels Moustache]

Trouble is as soon as you're manufacturing any sort of record, be it physical or digital, you are obliged to pay mechanical royalties to the copyright holders, ie songwriters/authors. I guess it's possible to waive these if, say, the artist is also the copyright holder and is happy to sign away their rights, but then even a snippet of a cover version, samples or whatever, you could be in serious breach. This is also why you get youtube takedowns - by uploading someone else's IP you've technically "manufactured" something.

In the old days, unscrupulous types would often sneak recording equipment into gigs and make "bootleg" tapes or even vinyl records to be sold at markets, record fairs and even the odd devil-may-care record shop. Highly illegal but often very profitable. The law is still the same today, it's just that youtube etc has taken the place of the shop/fair/market.  Profit's still being made from illegal exploitation of intellectual property.

The intent of most bootleggers might've been to make a quick buck, but you can't deny many bootlegs are important records of live scenes gone by, especially for bands who had very few or no official live recordings. Smartphones at gigs can be a nuisance, but I'm not sure I understand the insistence that everything should only exist in the moment and you should always just be content with just memories, because I'm always grateful if someone has made the effort to record shows I would've loved to've seen but didn't get the chance.

Myself I try and make audio recordings of most gigs I go to, just for my own satisfaction really. If nothing else it's a nice reminder of all the bands I've seen, plus I've managed to capture a couple of performances that will likely never be repeated.

I think the presence of smartphones at gigs means most venues have given up about preventing bootlegging now, because everyone has a device in their pocket that can make a recording in any case. So someone bringing in a Zoom recorder doesn't make much odds in the scheme of things

[grainger]

The artist should get to choose the version of their music/comedy that is recorded for posterity

I totally agree, but that's a lost cause, I fear.

[Replies From View]

I totally agree, but that's a lost cause, I fear.

All we need are a few revolting, greasy stagehands around the sides, tucking confiscated smartphones between their buttocks until the end of every show.

[Rizla]

It's interesting that the question of morality as regards recording and filming gigs doesn't get a look in. Unless it's like the Grateful Dead, who encouraged amateur recording enthusiasts to the point of providing them a special area where the mix would sound best, it seems highly presumptuous to expect artists to not mind, especially since in the pre-iphone days you'd get chucked out, your equipment confiscated and possibly your thumbs fractured if you got caught. I wouldn't do it, any more than I'd wander round an art opening snapping away.

At my first (and, sadly, last) Rutles gig a couple of years ago, when the woman in front of me started filming with her massive phone/tablet from the first number, my brother just leaned over and told her to stop, to the general approval of all around. I think most folk are actually aware that it's really not on.

[Famous Mortimer]

Is the microphone of even a very good phone likely to record a show in anything like decent quality, though? @Ron Maels Moustache , I see your point but it's not like people sticking their phones up are Grateful Dead-style amateur archivists.

[Ron Maels Moustache]

Is the microphone of even a very good phone likely to record a show in anything like decent quality, though? @Ron Maels Moustache , I see your point but it's not like people sticking their phones up are Grateful Dead-style amateur archivists.

From experience a bog standard Samsung phone mic is fine for quieter gigs/smaller venues (which is mostly what I go to tbh) but for full volume rock gigs is not a lot of use, you really need something with an adjustable input volume (which is why I've recently upgraded to a Zoom.)

[Replies From View]

I think two strands here are red herrings:  'people are trying to preserve memories of a beloved event' and 'people are wanting to objectively archive a live event for the benefit of the future'.

By and large, neither of these are true.  When anyone lifts up a phone video camera during a live event, what they're doing is make-believing that they are a film-maker.  That moment becomes about their own framing of the performance and whatever they'll do (apply filters etc) before sharing it.  They are the centre of creativity within their own project, and their audience is their facebook or instagram feed.  This focus replaces the experience of losing oneself in the moment of enjoying live performance, as well as the memories of it they'll have.

[JaDanketies]

I might take a brief snap so my photo memories remind me I went to that gig. A few seconds. At an opportune time like if everyone has a lighter up.

I don't think I've shared them with anyone, and I've seen Gear

[Gurke and Hare]

By and large, neither of these are true.  When anyone lifts up a phone video camera during a live event, what they're doing is make-believing that they are a film-maker.  That moment becomes about their own framing of the performance and whatever they'll do (apply filters etc) before sharing it.  They are the centre of creativity within their own project, and their audience is their facebook or instagram feed.  This focus replaces the experience of losing oneself in the moment of enjoying live performance, as well as the memories of it they'll have.

Christ, you're being insufferably pompous in this thread.

[ishantbekeepingit]

Is it OK to make a recording when you're heckling someone?

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

As a person of not particularly impressive height, it's hard enough getting a good view of the stage at gigs without some great lummox holding their phone in the way.

It's no different to talking in the cinema, as far as I'm concerned.

[Phoenix Lazarus]

Is it OK to make a recording when you're heckling someone?

Yeah. It'll be a good warning of what a prat you are.

[Ron Maels Moustache]

I think two strands here are red herrings:  'people are trying to preserve memories of a beloved event' and 'people are wanting to objectively archive a live event for the benefit of the future'.

By and large, neither of these are true.  When anyone lifts up a phone video camera during a live event, what they're doing is make-believing that they are a film-maker.  That moment becomes about their own framing of the performance and whatever they'll do (apply filters etc) before sharing it.  They are the centre of creativity within their own project, and their audience is their facebook or instagram feed.  This focus replaces the experience of losing oneself in the moment of enjoying live performance, as well as the memories of it they'll have.

Yes, yes, but the general vibe I'm getting from this discussion is that some here believe the whole idea of recording a performance at all (as video or audio) is a step too far, which is the part I was objecting to, as I think there's plenty of cases of examples of such recordings having value. I'm not saying people who can't put their phones away for a whole gig aren't a problem.

[Replies From View]

Christ, you're being insufferably pompous in this thread.

Thanks for proving me wrong there; good one

[Replies From View]

I think there's plenty of cases of examples of such recordings having value.

Can you give an example?  I suppose there's the instance of a RHLSTP episode only existing because someone recorded it from their seat.  But by and large if a performer wants their event recorded they'll record it or arrange for it to be recorded as video and/or audio.  An infinite array of smart phone cameras peeping from every conceivable angle surely can't be how we make our next steps into the future.  It's bleak and horrible and I'm scared of change because I am old, so make it stop please.

[BritishHobo]

I do wonder how many of these videos end up sitting on someone's SD card, never to be watched. I went to a music gig the other week and my view was repeatedly blocked by a bloke holding up his phone to record fifteen seconds of random songs. What value is that going to be?

[Gurke and Hare]

Thanks for proving me wrong there; good one

Right back atcha.