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March 28, 2024, 12:41:02 PM

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Northern Ireland politics

Started by Fambo Number Mive, May 13, 2022, 09:46:20 AM

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Fambo Number Mive

Am I correct that the DUP is preventing the Stormont parliament from meeting because they don't like part of a Brexit deal that they voted for? What did they think would happen with Northern Ireland when they supported Brexit?

The UK government seem committed to renegotiating the NI Protocol but why did they not try and raise concerns before they signed the Brexit deal? The right wing media tell us that Johnson got us a wonderful Brexit deal and than part of the deal must be changed.

Given that the EU don't want to change the NI Protocol, what is the way forward for Northern Ireland? Will the DUP's actions make reunification more likely? I don't know much about politics in Northern Ireland so would be interested to know more.


dissolute ocelot

People talk about Irish Unification, but why would Ireland want half a million Orange assholes? What would they do with them? Set up some kind of theme park or tribal reservation? Ship them over to Coatbridge to work in the distribution centres and prehistoric theme parks of Lanarkshire?

The Unionists have done the "not forming a government" trick so many times, they can't really believe it'll work. Another few years direct rule from London isn't going to make things better for the Orangemen. Tories only care about the DUP when they need their votes. I guess there's a risk the Unionists will increase the setting fire to things, but even then they'll mainly be setting fire to Unionist things.

Realistically all I see happening is more fudges over border protocols and the Tories quietly compromising with the EU, while the DUP throw toys out of their pram until they have no more toys left (and then throw faeces until their assholes are empty).

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on May 13, 2022, 12:21:19 PMPeople talk about Irish Unification, but why would Ireland want half a million Orange assholes? What would they do with them? Set up some kind of theme park or tribal reservation? Ship them over to Coatbridge to work in the distribution centres and prehistoric theme parks of Lanarkshire?
Realistically we would have to afford them some special minority status, allow them to opt out of learning Irish in schools, change our national anthem and probably change the laws about voting to accommodate the ones who refuse dual citizenship and insist on remaining British.

bgmnts

I feel like that is the only reasonable solution, absorb it all back but allow them generous time to emigrate or assimilate them and afford them protected status maybe.


monkfromhavana

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on May 13, 2022, 12:36:35 PMRealistically we would have to afford them some special minority status, allow them to opt out of learning Irish in schools, change our national anthem and probably change the laws about voting to accommodate the ones who refuse dual citizenship and insist on remaining British.

Send them all to Rwanda for processing.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on May 13, 2022, 12:21:19 PMPeople talk about Irish Unification, but why would Ireland want half a million Orange assholes? What would they do with them? Set up some kind of theme park or tribal reservation? Ship them over to Coatbridge to work in the distribution centres and prehistoric theme parks of Lanarkshire?
Keep making the UK shitter until even the most stubborn orange guys relent seems to be the solution at the minute.

Fambo Number Mive

On a tangent but this genius was in the audience on Question Time talking about the Irish border last night:

https://twitter.com/KeejayOV3/status/1524876154829688832

Is this a rare sighting of Legend Gary on television?


Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on May 13, 2022, 03:05:49 PMOn a tangent but this genius was in the audience on Question Time talking about the Irish border last night:

https://twitter.com/KeejayOV3/status/1524876154829688832

Is this a rare sighting of Legend Gary on television?



There was a great one on QT a while back where someone appeared to have come up with the idea of Irish reunification in their own little vacuum of ignorance, they even managed to use the phrase 'the island of Ireland' which I think they believed they'd coined as well, so smug despite knowing so little about the world around them.

Edit:
https://twitter.com/irishunity/status/1185219629439946756?lang=en-GB

Fambo Number Mive

The bloke also got to have the last question, asking if they all expected Starmar to be fined as he canvassed for the Durham PCC. Given PCCs don't make decisions on such matters, it was a daft thing to say.

Comedian Geoff Norcott was one of the panalists on Question Time incidentally.

Sebastian Cobb

That moustache bloke sounds like he's the kind of guy who phones up talk radio and uses phrases like "we're supposed to be GREAT Britain not rubbish Britain!"

Wonderful Butternut

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on May 13, 2022, 03:05:49 PMOn a tangent but this genius was in the audience on Question Time talking about the Irish border last night:

https://twitter.com/KeejayOV3/status/1524876154829688832

Is this a rare sighting of Legend Gary on television?

It's like he has no idea that the last 24 years have happened up there.


To answer the OP, yes the DUP effectively are now opposed to what they helped create. Btw, literally everyone told them that something like this was a possibility. Their argument is that they didn't want the Northern Ireland protocol, which is technically true. But they did help create it by supporting Brexit (the only party in NI to do so. Not even the UUP and PUP were this stupid), then propping up Theresa May's government following the 2017 General Election, then kicking up and refusing to support her Brexit deal, and helping her get ousted in favour of Floppy Hair. Who then made an 'oven ready' deal that they like even less.

The only reason Jonno hasn't told them to fuck off is because he can use it as leverage with the EU. It's not that he actually cares about Unionism.

Being perfectly blunt, and this should be caveated by noting I think the DUP are the worst pieces of shit in English speaking politics, so I'm not exactly unbiased here, I think they'd have come up with some other reason not to co-operate with power sharing with a Nationalist First Minister had they not had the Protocol.

Their behaviour during the "Cash for Ash" controversy just demonstrated that they still think Northern Ireland is for Unionists to govern without any question or real accountability. Not to mention things like suddenly deciding Ulster Scots had to be a language just to interfere with the Irish language Act and abusing the Petition of Concern mechanism to block marriage equality legislation. They'd bring back the B-Specials if they could.

Imo power sharing with the DUP and Sinn Fein as majority parties worked solely because, miracle of miracles, Ian Paisley Sr. and Martin McGuiness actually got on well with each other and managed to work through problems with their respective parties. Those two retired from politics (and are now dead), and the DUP do not have someone who commands the same respect in their ranks as Paisley did.

Unfortunately, I do not currently have a solution to this that doesn't involve fascism.

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on May 13, 2022, 12:36:35 PMRealistically we would have to afford them some special minority status, allow them to opt out of learning Irish in schools, change our national anthem and probably change the laws about voting to accommodate the ones who refuse dual citizenship and insist on remaining British.

If this does happen and they get to keep The Twelfth, then we keep our National Anthem.

pigamus

I hope the EU stand firm, but will they?

ProvanFan


Fambo Number Mive

I read somewhere (I think it was the BBC) that the Assembly still costs the NI public money even when it is not meeting.

Apparently Johnson is visiting Northern Ireland on Monday.

Is it correct that the assembly has to be part unionist? Given the UUP are critical of the DUP's behaviour over the Assembly, could the Alliance (I know the party is not unionist) and the UUP form a pact and replace the DUP on the Assembly?

danwho9

Quote from: ProvanFan on May 13, 2022, 06:16:38 PM

Gerry is shaking in the boots he doesn't wear when trampolining naked with his dog.

Wonderful Butternut

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on May 14, 2022, 10:49:47 AMI read somewhere (I think it was the BBC) that the Assembly still costs the NI public money even when it is not meeting.

Apparently Johnson is visiting Northern Ireland on Monday.

Is it correct that the assembly has to be part unionist? Given the UUP are critical of the DUP's behaviour over the Assembly, could the Alliance (I know the party is not unionist) and the UUP form a pact and replace the DUP on the Assembly?

Yes, the entire point of the Assembly is that it's always part Unionist and part Nationalist, and they co-operate to form a government, so both Nationalists and Unionists are making decisions.

When Northern Ireland had devolved government with simple majority politics between 1921 and 1972, the Unionists gerrymandered the shit out of the constituencies so their roughly 60/40 majority (at the time) became an 80/20 in parliament, and then treated Nationalists like shit. Eventually a combination of the IRA going around blowing shit up over it, plus white people marching for their Civil Rights on the news became a bit much for Britain and they had to step in and rule it directly. Then we all spent 20+ years trying to figure out what to do next until we got the Good Friday Agreement. Which Brexit is danger of completely fucking up, and BoJo will blame the EU. And people will lap it up. GG Tories.

Given that the DUP are the largest Unionist party, I'm 99% certain they have to be involved and it is not possible to sideline them, because that defeats the entire purpose of the power sharing. A larger portion of the Unionist community voted for them than any other party, therefore they have to be in the system to represent Unionism, even if they are horrible, backwards bastards. Just as it wouldn't be possible to sideline Sinn Fein if they refused to co-operate with power sharing.

I don't know what happens if a non-aligned party (ie. Alliance) become the largest party, btw.

bgmnts

Just saw an interview on sky news with Michelle O'Neill and fucking hell she was a cut above the absolute shambles that is British leadership.

bgmnts

Random question but I had to watch a little intro video into the troubles for my uni course and the narrator and talking heads referred to every unionist as "Protestants". Obviously the religious divide is part of the political divide I presume but were/are there absolutely no Catholic unionists or Protestant republicans/nationalists at all?

EOLAN

Obviously there is a very high correlation between both, but yes there would be Catholic Unionists and Protestant Nationalists.

These wiki pages give an overview of some.
Also, in the wider history, Protestant Republicans/Nationalists were usually key leaders in Ireland's battle for independence, both politically and militarily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Irish_nationalists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_unionist

touchingcloth

Why do the orange ones love Britain so much anyway? It's an absolute turd of a country. "Lads, I've got a great idea: let's go all in on that country that doesn't really care about us and is filled with royal nonces". What?

bgmnts

Quote from: EOLAN on May 22, 2022, 10:40:10 AMObviously there is a very high correlation between both, but yes there would be Catholic Unionists and Protestant Nationalists.

These wiki pages give an overview of some.
Also, in the wider history, Protestant Republicans/Nationalists were usually key leaders in Ireland's battle for independence, both politically and militarily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Irish_nationalists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_unionist

Yeah had a quick look at that some interesting figures, I just wonder what is more important, the shared religious/cultural things or the political goals. I have never met an Irish person who has personally known either.

Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: touchingcloth on May 22, 2022, 12:56:12 PMWhy do the orange ones love Britain so much anyway? It's an absolute turd of a country. "Lads, I've got a great idea: let's go all in on that country that doesn't really care about us and is filled with royal nonces". What?

I guess that is tied up with the question "why do the DUP/Orange Order fear being part of the Republic of Ireland so much?" Personally it would seem much more fun being part of the ROI than Britain.

petril

the only difference would be being a minority that the rest of the country is actually aware of

Wonderful Butternut

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on May 22, 2022, 04:52:50 PMI guess that is tied up with the question "why do the DUP/Orange Order fear being part of the Republic of Ireland so much?" Personally it would seem much more fun being part of the ROI than Britain.

In addition to cultural reasons, there was legit reasons around the influence of the Catholic Church and the economic benefits of remaining as part of Britain at the time of Partition in the 1920s.

At this stage they're just clinging on to it as they have nothing else left since they're not allowed beat up the Tadghs whenever they get uppity anymore.

Fambo Number Mive

I see a speaker has not been elected at Stormont after the DUP refused to vote in favour, further delaying the executive.

Feels like the DUP are holding politics in Northern Ireland hostage unless they get the changes they want to the Brexit deal they voted for back in 2019. Talk about wanting to have their cake and eat it.


touchingcloth

I've recently binged on Derry Girls and rewatched The Commitments. I think that's me up to speed now, unless I need to listen to The Spirit of Man or anything?

touchingcloth

What is it with us Brits and partitions behind us anyway? Was there a particular reason we did an India and a Pakistan an an Ireland and a Northern Ireland rather than just, say, fucking off? It's like kicking someone out of the pub, but before they leave they encourage the whites into the tap room and the blacks into the bit with the snooker table.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: touchingcloth on May 30, 2022, 03:16:07 PMWhat is it with us Brits and partitions behind us anyway? Was there a particular reason we did an India and a Pakistan an an Ireland and a Northern Ireland rather than just, say, fucking off? It's like kicking someone out of the pub, but before they leave they encourage the whites into the tap room and the blacks into the bit with the snooker table.
In the case of Northern Ireland, that was the most industrialised bit.