Star Wars presents: The Middle-Aged Obi-Wan Kenobi Chronicles

[phantom_power]

Why doesn't Obi Wan remember R2D2 in New Hope?

We don't know he doesn't. He could just be pretending so Luke doesn't twig about them having some prior relationship. Also, all blue R2 units look the same. Sorry if that comes across as racist but it's true. I can't be racist anyway. My mum is R5D4

[Mr_Simnock]

All kenobi says in a new hope is he doesnt remember owning a droid and yes there are countless R2 units in the galaxy so could be a copy of the one he used decades ago

[phantom_power]

A New Hope is a continuity shit show anyway because it was made before Lucas nailed down the history properly. They are doing well to have it make any sense at all

[idunnosomename]

Remember Luke and Leia were not even siblings when it was made. That Lucas insisted on keeping the droids prominent in the prequels was a choice he didnt have to make. It's all very contrived when you think about it. If you didnt have "the force" to wave it away itd be pretty hopeless

[bgmnts]

We don't know he doesn't. He could just be pretending so Luke doesn't twig about them having some prior relationship. Also, all blue R2 units look the same. Sorry if that comes across as racist but it's true. I can't be racist anyway. My mum is R5D4

Sly Obi Wan fucker.

Just shows in the first film that Lucas' claims it was all planned out and shit is utter bollocks, they had no clue.

[prelektric]

Thank you. I've watched too many of these things now to actually listen to any of the exposition. I tend to zone out as they usually create more plot holes rather than getting rid of them.

No problem, I do get what you are saying though! Forcing things in there with a crowbar in an attempt to "fix" something that probably doesn't need fixing seems to happen a lot, but at least in this instance, it makes total sense to me - and I'm struggling to come up with a better compelling reason for Obi-Wan to break his solitude.

[curiousoranges]

Why doesn't Obi Wan remember R2D2 in New Hope?

When you consider how fast he ages physically, between this and ONH, he probably has rapidly advancing dementia.

[prelektric]

Sly Obi Wan fucker.

Just shows in the first film that Lucas' claims it was all planned out and shit is utter bollocks, they had no clue.

Don't want to get too much into this lest it drags the thread off topic - but yeah. I consider myself a fan, but those claims have always been a pile of Bantha poo-doo.

Star Wars has always been just a fun action-adventure yarn with some exceptional world building and appealing characters, and the OT has a lot of sentimental nostalgic value to me - I just enjoy it for what it is, warts and all. (And there has always been warts from the start - some pretty big and ugly lookin').

If I want extremely tightly plotted movies/TV with stellar acting and dialogue, there's plenty other things out there that fit that bill better. If current Star Wars was all of those things, the usual crowd will be out in droves screaming "It doesn't feel like Star Wars!". Because of course it wouldn't, it's based on Saturday Morning TV serials from 40's/50's. "Space Opera" on a grand scale.

I also think (regardless of what a very vocal contingent of "fandom" think) the people at "Disney owned" Lucasfilm really DO care about the franchise. Do they get it right all the time? No, of course not, there's been some big mis-steps along the way but I'm happy we're getting all this live action TV stuff, it provides a nice bit of easy escapism for me set in a universe I enjoy. If anyone had said merely 15 years ago, I'd be getting a TV show set during this period with Obi-Wan I'd have rolled my eyes and scoffed.

Anyway, all that aside, looking forward to tomorrow's episode :)

[prelektric]

Why doesn't Obi Wan remember R2D2 in New Hope?

We don't know he doesn't. He could just be pretending so Luke doesn't twig about them having some prior relationship

Simply this. Obviously this wasn't an issue at the time in 1977, but it's reasonable to assume that everything we learned about Obi-Wan later in the OT would tell us that he's not being entirely honest with Luke at that stage, about a great many things - from a certain point of view...

Indeed Owen's animosity towards Ben so far in this series tells a lot about his resistance to "Ben" getting anywhere near Luke. Actually, should give a shout out to Joel Edgerton here, he wasn't given an awful lot to do as Owen 20 years ago, but here, he's bloody great, almost upstaging Ewan in certain scenes. Great job.

[stonkers]

Remember Luke and Leia were not even siblings when it was made.

They're not even siblings in Empire Strikes Back.

OBI: "That boy is our last hope."
YODA: "No, there is another."

Meant to refer to someone else entirely, not Leia. Obviously Obi Wan would know about Leia, even without taking this show into account, and it's also not really referenced again in Return of the Jedi.

Unless they retcon it and Yoda was actually talking about Asohka Tano or Grogu or something.

[prelektric]

Not sure about Obi Wan looking out for Young Luke, having an arrangement with Uncle Owen that he will be trained. It's not inherently bad but I prefer the idea that Luke went to Obi Wan of his own volition, resourcefully seeking out an old Jedi off his own bat.

Have you watched Star Wars* recently? Owen will absolutely NOT allow that to happen, he's doing the right thing and keeping Luke away from him. His stance in the opening episode of this series is, it would seem, unswerving - he deeply mistrusts Obi-Wan, he's having none of it. And he always kept to that stance.

The random two droids turning up with the message, and ending up on their moisture farm 9 years later changed everything. The Force moves in mysterious ways...

"That wizard's just a crazy old man", Owen pleading to Luke to NOT pursue the mystery he's found himself embroiled in.

Luke met Obi-Wan by "accident" because R2 buggered off for a stroll. Luke has no real choice but to join old Ben after finding Owen and Beru had been cruelly incinerated by the Imperial troops, who were in search of the droids they had unwittingly been sold by the Jawas. They were also incinerated. (Jawas are little bastards, but they didn't deserve that)

It's a pretty fucking dark opening, that movie, when you think about it...

ETA: A dear friend of mine wrote a haiku that utterly slayed me first time I read it. With his permission, I share it with you now:

Aunt Beru, you smiled
Whilst cooking nice food for Luke
You were roasted, too.

*^{I refuse to call it "A New Hope". It is called "Star Wars". Harmy's Despecialised Editions forever}

[prelektric]

Meant to refer to someone else entirely, not Leia. Obviously Obi Wan would know about Leia, even without taking this show into account, and it's also not really referenced again in Return of the Jedi.

Who could it have been though? You can't just mention "another" right before the climax of your middle part of a trilogy, not enough time to introduce anyone as potentially important as that and make it meaningful.

And then there's that scene at the end of ESB where Luke reaches out to Leia while desperately hanging off the base of Cloud City, and she hears him, thus enabling his rescue... (cue magnificent John Williams moment)

Who the fuck knows - just enjoy if you can.

Is there a general SW thread where we can discuss this? Getting a bit off topic

[bgmnts]

The only thing that remained consistent in Star Wars was Chewie's moustache.

[prelektric]

The only thing that remained consistent in Star Wars was Chewie's moustache.

I'm reasonably sure there's an entire "Wookiepedia" article about Wookie moustaches, their form, their status, and as a measure of how many young Wookies they have sired. Or something.

Obviously Obi Wan would know about Leia, even without taking this show into account, and it's also not really referenced again in Return of the Jedi.

Sorry but back to this again: From ROTJ:

YODA: There is... another... Skywalker... (carks it)

(10 Minutes Later - in comedy Latin America speak, because funny apparently)

LUKE: Yoda spoke of another...

BEN: The other he spoke of was your twin sister

LUKE: But I have no sister?

BEN: Hmph, I kept this shit from you because I was selfish and we still haven't learned our lesson and want to use her as a backup just in case you can't do what we need you to do.

LUKE: Leia! Leia is my sister!

BEN: Yeah whatever, you need to face Vader. Don't kill him though, cos that's what that California Raisin of an Emperor would love you to do, because Sith shit.

LUKE: What "Sith shit"

BEN: It's complicated. Stop being a twat, go out there, and just do your thing. Might work out, we don't know.

LUKE: Well, cheers for that...

[bgmnts]

From ROTJ:

YODA: There is... another... Skywalker... (carks it)

(10 Minutes Later - in comedy Latin America speak, because funny apparently)

LUKE: Yoda spoke of another...

BEN: The other he spoke of was your twin sister

LUKE: But I have no sister?

BEN: Hmph, I kept this shit from you because I was selfish and we still haven't learned our lesson and want to use her as a backup just in case you can't do what we need you to do.

LUKE: Leia! Leia is my sister!

BEN: Yeah whatever, you need to face Vader. Don't kill him though, cos that's what that Californian Raisin of an Emperor would love you to do, because Sith shit.

LUKE: What "Sith shit"

BEN: It's complicated. Stop being a twat, go out there, and just do your thing. Might work out, we don't know.

LUKE: Well, cheers for that...

Man, these leaked George Lucas first drafts are eye opening!

[prelektric]

Man, these leaked George Lucas first drafts are eye opening!

You don't know the half of it!

Anyway, sorry everyone, this got a bit out of hand - promise to keep to topic from here on in.

[stonkers]

Who could it have been though? You can't just mention "another" right before the climax of your middle part of a trilogy, not enough time to introduce anyone as potentially important as that and make it meaningful.

I can't remember who the "another" was meant to be - possibly because George hadn't decided either - but it's definitely not meant to be Leia. Bear in mind this is the movie where Luke and Leia have a full on mouth to mouth smooch.

When I say it doesn't really come up again, what I mean is while ROTJ reveals Leia is Luke's sister, the idea of training her as a Jedi is barely mentioned.

[Dr Rock]

If Luke dies and the Empire remains in power, presumably she can be trained up by, er, someone.

[Dr Rock]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

Genetic sexual attraction is a concept in which a strong sexual attraction may develop between close blood relatives who first meet as adults.

also

There is no evidence for genetic sexual attraction being an actual phenomenon

[prelektric]

I can't remember who the "another" was meant to be - possibly because George hadn't decided either - but it's definitely not meant to be Leia. Bear in mind this is the movie where Luke and Leia have a full on mouth to mouth smooch.

When I say it doesn't really come up again, what I mean is while ROTJ reveals Leia is Luke's sister, the idea of training her as a Jedi is barely mentioned.

Yeah, it's a bit of a mess really. But it's what we have to work with. That's Star Wars for you.

[Butchers Blind]

I always thought the 'another' was meant to be Darth Vader as he offs wrinkly bastard at the end of RotJ.

[bgmnts]

Holy shit!

Spoiler alert

Evil bastard Vader bringing some life into this!

[close]

[curiousoranges]

Episode 3 was:

Spoiler alert

My least favourite one. The Darth Vader stuff was anyway. "You should have killed me when you had the chance."

[close]

[Malcy]

Thought it was out Fridays?

[Malcy]

Then again it was originally slated to be released May the 25th.

[stonkers]

They held it off to premier at Star Wars Celebration on the Friday, it's on Wednesdays for the rest of the episodes.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

I can't remember who the "another" was meant to be - possibly because George hadn't decided either - but it's definitely not meant to be Leia. Bear in mind this is the movie where Luke and Leia have a full on mouth to mouth smooch.

When I say it doesn't really come up again, what I mean is while ROTJ reveals Leia is Luke's sister, the idea of training her as a Jedi is barely mentioned.

The original plans for Episode VI were discussed in length by Gary Kurtz, the producer on SW and ESB. There was supposed to be a big battle on the Wookie planet (not in Ewoksland). Luke would have faced Vader, ultimately winning (and probably bringing him back to the light side before he died). Han Solo would have died, causing a mourning Leia to take a back seat and go far away to animate the resistance there. The Emperor wasn't supposed to be properly introduced at that point. Luke was supposed to hear about a sister of his, which was to be introduced in Episode VII, after a hiatus of a few years, with Leia also returning at some point in this trilogy, until the Emperor was defeated for good in IX.

In that way, Episode VI would have been quite bittersweet, even more than ESB, leaving also a huge cliffhanger (and removing two of the biggest characters). On one (uncut) hand, especially after Kurtz (who had a darker streak) left and he was busy with the divorce, Lucas wanted to be done with SW as quickly as possible and assumed he shouldn't dilute Luke's story in four more films (which is why the nine episodes thing was quietly reduced to six). On the other hand, he realized that the most powerful thing in the trilogy was Vader's redemption arc and decided to focus on it.

Also, they had briefly talked about Episodes I-III. They wanted Episode I to be about the foundation of the Jedi order, thousands of years before. The rise and fall of Anakin  would have been developed in one or two episodes at most.

[Malcy]

That was great.

Spoiler alert

Vader just force neck snapping the kid who ran outside without a second thought.

[close]

Really enjoyed it.

Couldn't place the voice of Freck. Thought it was Seth Rogen at first but was

Spoiler alert

Zach Braff. James Earl Jones as Vader was a surprise. I thought they had a soundalike.

[close]

Also, does Indira Varma age? Wasn't sure it was her at first as she looks exactly like she did in Torchwood 16 years ago!

[prelektric]

Um... blimey.

Wasn't expecting that so soon - but it's only 6 episodes, and I'm sure there's more to come.

Spoiler alert

The Vader stuff was what I hoped it would be. He's utterly sadistic and ruthless. Probably why he's put some stock in Reva - peas in a pod in some ways.

Vader dragging Obi-Wan into the flames - fuck me, but he's still toying with him. It's become a cat and mouse game now Obi-Wan is out there in the open. I've seen others say "why doesn't Vader just go through the flames to deal with it" but I don't think Vader wants to deal with it right there at that point - he wants Obi-Wan to suffer, for as long as possible. They will meet again before this is over.

Young Leia continues to impress, her "diplomatic" skills were starting to show here, even over Ben at one point - but he's enormously distracted right now, understandably so, so his cover almost slips in that moment.

Stormtrooper being sliced in half by that laser gate - niiiiice!

[close]

This is working exceptionally well for me, it's paced nicely I feel, and Ewan is just getting better as this goes along, he has some lovely moments in this episode.

EDIT: - I hear that Moses Ingram is getting the usual hatred from extraordinarily shit people - that shit has to stop - these people are not SW fans, they are just cowards and cunts of the worst kind. I hope Moses won't be cowed by this bullshit and stands her ground. Fuck those cunts. Makes me so angry. Sorry.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

So when

Spoiler alert

Vader was knocking Obi-Wan around and dragging him through fire, was he still but the learner? I'm not all that precious about "the canon", but this really does seem to make a nonsense of the established storyline.

Was that actually James Earl Jones, or a deep fake voice thing? He sounded a lot younger than he did in Rogue One.

Speaking of: I feel like showing him murdering children was a very pointed response to the slavering fanboy reception that his scene at the end of Rogue One received. He's a not a badass, he's a monster.

[close]

Has Obi shut himself off from the Force to avoid detection? He seems very reluctant to use his Jedi powers when they would be very helpful. Is part of his arc going to be learning that it's safer to do a quick mind trick rather than shoot his way out of trouble?

I hear that Moses Ingram is getting the usual hatred from extraordinarily shit people - that shit has to stop - these people are not SW fans, they are just cowards and cunts of the worst kind. I hope Moses won't be cowed by this bullshit and stands her ground. Fuck those cunts. Makes me so angry. Sorry.

The bigwigs, including McGregor have at least spoken out against the abuse, which is more than Kelly Marie Tran got, as far as I'm aware. Fucking horrible and senseless nonetheless.