Latin Jazz

[Derek Trucks]

I notice we don't have a thread about this, nor some great names such as Stan Getz, Tom Jobim or Joao & Bebel GIlberto.  
Perfect music for a sunny evening, and not yet been sabotaged by the Cullums of this world.  Anyone else a fan?  Or does it veer too much towards "easy listening" for your taste?

[falafel]

I like it. In a passing fashion. I bought 'Sounds From The Verve Hi-Fi', compiled by Thievery Corporation, which no doubt is a bit of a cop-out, but it has some lovely stuff on it. I'm a big fan of Astrud Gilberto myself - there's more to her than that fucking Ipanema song...

[little pianist]

Seems like your talking about bossa nova specifically which is, as I understand it, an 'easy listening' derivative of Samba.

"Latin Jazz" encompasses a huge range of styles. It's important to distinguish between the two types, Afro-cuban (salsa, merengue, cuban son etc) and brazilian (samba, bossa nova etc)
There's some examples here:
(sorry the links are a bit crap)

salsa
cuban
calypso - listen to 'fungii mama'

wiki - latin jazz
sound samples
this is good too

[Derek Trucks]

Thanks for the info LP.

Yes, the examples I gave were all bossa-ish, but I do like the other stuff as well.  A few years back I got a Brazillian Beats compilation on Mr. Bongo and it blew me away.

[Gazeuse]

I think it's important not to confuse latin music with latin jazz music.

Salsa music is out and out dance music. Although it has similarities to jazz (Improvised solos and harmonic complexity) the style of playing is very different ie. the piano featuring quadruple octave solos and the trumpet squealing in a very high register. However (To my mind, at least) it doesn't become latin jazz until solid jazz elements are included (eg. the latin tinged music of Dizzy Gillespie, Chucho Valdes and Irakire, some Weather Report and the Getz mentioned above).

I used to be into the London salsa scene and would regularly go to The Bass Clef in Hoxton for their Friday latin night...They used to have fantastic bands like Robin Jones King Salsa and visiting American bands like Oscar Hernandez's Carabali. I even used to dance...Imagine that!!! In fact, you didn't really need to dance, because you'd be squeezed in so tightly that you were propelled upwards and downwards bu the people next to you. They were hot, sweaty and fantastic gigs.

I consider myself very lucky to have seen Celia Cruz con Titi Puente y su orquestra at the Hammersmith Palais (Both people and venue sadly gone now). Watching 'El Rey Del Mambo' Tito spin the sticks around his head while thrashing out machine gun rolls on the timbales was a real thrill.

The most recent salsa show I went to was Ruben Blades And The Spanish Harlem Orchestra (Directed by Oscar Hernandez). That was a fantastic night at The Festival Hall. The crowd were mostly latinos and all of the audience were highly excited and kept breaking into clapping the clave rhythm.

Salsa rhythms are really interesting. The clave (Dotted quaver, dotted quaver, crotchet, quaver, crotchet) is the most noticable, with congas and timbales playing across them. The bass is slightly disjointed and anticipates the beat...In fact the only person playing on the beat is the cowbell which plays straight fours with the occasional fill throughout. The whole just fits together perfectly.

Samba is another rhythm which gets me going...Occasionally on the south bank, you'll find a sama 'school' of drummers bashing away producing an electrifying sound.

All of those, I'd class as pure dance music, but Jesus "Chucho" Valdes and Irakire are a different animal. Chucho is very much a jazz pianist, but can also shake the house with typical salsa playing with monotunas etc...

I'll stop now.

[Sam]

The clave (Dotted quaver, dotted quaver, crotchet, quaver, crotchet)

I thought a clave was crotchet, quaver rest, quaver, crotchet rest, crotchet for the first bar and then crotchet rest, two crotchets and another crotchet rest for the second (son clave) with a rumba clave being almost the same except in the first bar instead of a crotchet on the fourth beat it's a quaver rest and a quaver?

[little pianist]

Yes to gaz's post, except that i think the boundary between what is and isn't jazz is always a very fluid one. (Improvisation over a groove is enough me. If that groove is based on some kind of clave pattern (6/8, 2/2, whatever), then it's latin jazz. )

but anyway....
In case there are any musicians out there wanting to get their teeth into some of the salsa/cuban stuff, the top two books here give you a good start:

http://www.rebecamauleon.com/publications.html
get them from //www.jazzwise.co.uk

[little pianist]

http://www.formedia.ca/rhythms/1clave.html

[Gazeuse]

The clave (Dotted quaver, dotted quaver, crotchet, quaver, crotchet)

I thought a clave was crotchet, quaver rest, quaver, crotchet rest, crotchet for the first bar and then crotchet rest, two crotchets and another crotchet rest for the second (son clave) with a rumba clave being almost the same except in the first bar instead of a crotchet on the fourth beat it's a quaver rest and a quaver?

Well, I'm doing the same thing but at double speed and without the rests. Your way is more precise and I should've put it that way but my brain is a bit addled from too much work!!!

You're right about the rumba clave btw. It's also interesting to note that the two bars switch round in some cases too.

[little pianist]

It's also interesting to note that the two bars switch round in some cases too.

Not sure about that. It's very rare and only at the break between different sections of a song (usually by the last phrase having an odd number of bars so the clave just keeps going). The important point is that all the rhythm section (congas, timbales, bongos, maracas, clave, piano, bass) have their own rhythmic pattern based around the clave. So all these instruments have to be synochronised, or "in clave", either forward or backward.

[Gazeuse]

I've heard this happen may a time and for quite long stretches. It's noted as 2-3 son clave on your link above.

[little pianist]

I've heard this happen may a time and for quite long stretches. It's noted as 2-3 son clave on your link above.

Ah I see, my mistake. I thought you meant switching from 3-2(forward) to 2-3(backwards) (or vice versa) in the middle of a song, which is rare. 2-3 is actually much more common in my experience, especially with cuban son/salsa music.