Manchester...so much to answer for

[dr beat]

I think the extent to which The Beatles became such a phenomenon (down perhaps to them being in the right place in time in terms of where pop music was evolving) took the pressure off Liverpool bands ever since.  Bands could be whatever they wanted to be, no point worrying about matching The Beatles because, who could? So you get all sorts of artists, from the Real Thing, the Eric's scene, Frankie, The Las etc.  And Atomic Kitten.

Manchester bands have maybe tried to go close but never got quite there, mainly because as I say The Beatles phenomenon is of historical circumstance, at least to an extent. 

When Oasis first emerged, I was genuinely struck that an affectedly Manchester band sincerely namechecked The Beatles, Manchester bands didn't do that at all.  And also because in 1993 The Beatles were out of fashion, and it seemed just a totally obvious influence.  Like a Michelin starred chef being asked what their favourite ingredient was and them saying water.

[Sebastian Cobb]

The Manc swagger present in the likes of oasis et al seems to have caused a feedback loop of unwarranted self-importance imo.

[dr beat]

In other news I'm in a pub in Edinburgh right now.  Party of Yorkshire blokes in (inevitably they had to mention it within 30 seconds of entering the establishment, do they have to remind themselves?)

They are discussing famous pop bands from Yorkshire.  They could only think of The Kaiser Chiefs and The Arctic Monkeys and have resorted to Googling.  They were genuinely shocked to find out that The Human League and Soft Cell are their brethren.  Dont dare tell em about Pulp.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Tell them not to forget about the Bad Boy Chiller Crew.

[dr beat]

Oh the other one they had heard of was Black Lace.

[idunnosomename]

I think the extent to which The Beatles became such a phenomenon (down perhaps to them being in the right place in time in terms of where pop music was evolving) took the pressure off Liverpool bands ever since.  Bands could be whatever they wanted to be, no point worrying about matching The Beatles because, who could? So you get all sorts of artists, from the Real Thing, the Eric's scene, Frankie, The Las etc.  And Atomic Kitten.

Dont forget Carcass

[Famous Mortimer]

In other news I'm in a pub in Edinburgh right now.  Party of Yorkshire blokes in (inevitably they had to mention it within 30 seconds of entering the establishment, do they have to remind themselves?)

They are discussing famous pop bands from Yorkshire.  They could only think of The Kaiser Chiefs and The Arctic Monkeys and have resorted to Googling.  They were genuinely shocked to find out that The Human League and Soft Cell are their brethren.  Dont dare tell em about Pulp.

Or Cabaret Voltaire

[The Culture Bunker]

When Oasis first emerged, I was genuinely struck that an affectedly Manchester band sincerely namechecked The Beatles, Manchester bands didn't do that at all.  And also because in 1993 The Beatles were out of fashion, and it seemed just a totally obvious influence.  Like a Michelin starred chef being asked what their favourite ingredient was and them saying water.

What confused me, and still does, is that Oasis sound nothing like the Beatles in any way and yet journos were so quick to draw a straight line between them. As I said on the #1s thread, I always go back to my dad's initial assessment of them: "a crap version of Slade". I pick up more of a vague Beatles tinge in the Stone Roses and Smiths than Oasis.

It was interesting reading Will Sergeant's memoir recently that he recalled others would tease him about his huge love of a lot of the Manchester bands around in the late 70s. Julian Cope gave him kudos for clicking onto Joy Division early doors. It never seemed to be returned, maybe the Manchester bands felt superior for staying on the indies, Buzzcocks and Magazine aside.

[dr beat]

Dont forget Carcass

Them too. Also The Reynolds Girls.

[Darles Chickens]

What confused me, and still does, is that Oasis sound nothing like the Beatles in any way and yet journos were so quick to draw a straight line between them.

Their cover of I Am The Walrus sounds a little bit like a Beatles song though.

[shiftwork2]

Blame Northside.

[the science eel]

I pick up more of a vague Beatles tinge in the Stone Roses and Smiths than Oasis.

Yeah, me too. Very much so.

I don't remember it being pointed out much at the time, if at all. The NME said the Smiths were 'our Beatles' now and again, but that was more to do with cultural impact than sonic similarities.

[The Culture Bunker]

Their cover of I Am The Walrus sounds a little bit like a Beatles song though.

Well, the words are the same, and the chord sequences are bastardised into basic barre-form to suit their limited abilities, but when it comes to original material, I don't see it all.

[grainger]

What confused me, and still does, is that Oasis sound nothing like the Beatles in any way and yet journos were so quick to draw a straight line between them.

Yes! A guitar band could scarcely sound less like the Beatles. It just shows how gullible most music journalists are (were?) - Oasis said they liked the Beatles, the journalists liked them, and so - hey presto - Oasis sound like the Beatles.

[Pauline Walnuts]

And they did get done for plagiarising the Ruttles, there is that I guess.

[Jockice]

Tell them not to forget about the Bad Boy Chiller Crew.

Or the Fuck City Shitters.

[purlieu]

Glad I'm not the only one baffled by the Oasis/Beatles thing. Other than the odd reference and Liam clearly wanting to be John, there's no real musical link, is there? Layers of barre chord guitars, five minute songs, lyrics built from cliches and working class optimism, a cocky swagger and little interest in experimenting or expanding their sound.

[Key]

Musically not that similar, theres a way with the vocal melodies, chord changes and basslines thats vaguely Beatlesy on the early stuff.

The lyrics are the worst offender though, with lots of for-the-sake-of-it Beatles references. Stuff like 'Let There Be Love' strikes me as Noel lazily rehashing 'All You Need Is Love'. The fisher price psychedelia of Shakermaker.

[Kankurette]

In other news I'm in a pub in Edinburgh right now.  Party of Yorkshire blokes in (inevitably they had to mention it within 30 seconds of entering the establishment, do they have to remind themselves?)

They are discussing famous pop bands from Yorkshire.  They could only think of The Kaiser Chiefs and The Arctic Monkeys and have resorted to Googling.  They were genuinely shocked to find out that The Human League and Soft Cell are their brethren.  Dont dare tell em about Pulp.

Or Cabaret Voltaire and The All Seeing I.

[Mr Banlon]

The Manc swagger present in the likes of oasis et al seems to have caused a feedback loop of unwarranted self-importance imo.

Quite the swagger : https://uk.yahoo.com/news/noel-gallagher-claridges-heating-090606956.html

[jobotic]

In other news I'm in a pub in Edinburgh right now.  Party of Yorkshire blokes in (inevitably they had to mention it within 30 seconds of entering the establishment, do they have to remind themselves?)

They are discussing famous pop bands from Yorkshire.  They could only think of The Kaiser Chiefs and The Arctic Monkeys and have resorted to Googling.  They were genuinely shocked to find out that The Human League and Soft Cell are their brethren.  Dont dare tell em about Pulp.

Hope you sang Fat Lad Exam Failure by Bogshed right in their faces.

[Ray Travez]

Why doesn't MC Tunes get a little quote?

I was at school with MC Tunes. I know it's not the subject of the thread, but no-one else of note (no pun intended) went to my school, so I have to grab any opportunity to mention it.

[Kankurette]

Quite the swagger : https://uk.yahoo.com/news/noel-gallagher-claridges-heating-090606956.html

Neol's gone full Partridge.

[kalowski]

I was at school with MC Tunes. I know it's not the subject of the thread, but no-one else of note (no pun intended) went to my school, so I have to grab any opportunity to mention it.

I went to school with DJ Mr Scruff. Also not the subject of the thread.

[Catalogue of ills]

Sheffield has been reduced to a bottle of Henderson's Relish, so count yourselves lucky.

[jamiefairlie]

I went to school with Adrian Chreechan,

Anyone else gone to school with someone not the subject of this, or indeed any, thread?

[the science eel]

Francis Dunnery

[Bernice]

I think one of the three songs that Oasis kept recycling is a boring version of the Beatles' Rain, so there is that.

If anything, I find Manchester is more insistent on it's musical legacy than Liverpool, these days. I think the Beatles have receded so far into history that the 'Beatles museum' jibe has genuinely come to pass - the Beatles shit is there in the city, it's an important thing that happened long ago, you can do a museum of it. Whereas it feels like Manchester's now is more invested in its musical legacy.

Both are terrifically needy cities: Liverpool in a 'I'm alright aren't I? Tell me I'm good' sort of way; Manchester in more of a swaggering bravado covering up for insecurity sort of way. Maybe all the large, non-London English cities have it to some degree, a complex bought on by the dominance of the capital.

[The Culture Bunker]

I suppose any swagger/arrogance from Manchester in the past was at least merited by the bands around - Joy Division and Buzzcocks in late 70s, New Order in 80s into Happy Mondays/Stone Roses than Oasis. The locals could have some vicarious glory from all that, but it's been a long old time since any band from round here really cut into the culture in a big way (though I stand to be corrected) - so there's only the previous generations' glories to mine.

And I'd say even Manchester City are not despised in a way United used to be - the old slogan of "hated, adored, never ignored" doesn't really apply to City as it seems other fans just shrug and say "well, yeah, you have all those billions so you should be winning every game".

Perhaps cities without this kind of baggage don't have the same neediness: people from, say, Sunderland, Hull or Preston may be able to confirm.

[purlieu]

Maybe all the large, non-London English cities have it to some degree, a complex bought on by the dominance of the capital.

I dunno, Birmingham just seems to get on with it.