Death Hacks

[Zetetic]

My mother is going to die soon. Soon-ish. Probably months, possibly a couple of years.

Irrelevant causal route summary:

Spoiler alert

Cryptogenic ("Dunno exactly why") burnt out cirrhosis
Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease
Diabetes
Obesity
Not going to speculate further back than this

[close]

Given how I'm going to be at the time, I'm trying to get ahead of this with:
- Immediate aftermath document in draft (who you have to contact in terms of gov departments, businesses and with what information)
- Who I will need to tell, friends and family-wise, and draft lines
- Eulogy draft

Not fussed about will and probate shit; that'll be fine eventually. Will need estate to transfer the car to me (assuming I pass my test on Monday) ASAP.

How was it for you when your last remaining parent died? Anything you wished you known or sorted out ahead of time? Were there any surprisingly uplifting aspects? On the last one, keep them to yourself, I don't give a shit.

Also trying to sort out LPAs for the pre-dead bit, and establishing what's important to her (it's staying in her house, with cats) and trying to find what we need to enable that (i.e. at-home care). I'm doing better at not just looking away out of cowardice than with my father, a decade ago.

I don't know who's going to cut my hair. She does a better job than anyone else despite being half-blind and me ostensibly being an adult.

[Buelligan]

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this.  It's hard.  I was lucky in that my father was the surviving parent.  He was abusive, violent, all my life and I hadn't spoken to him or seen him in years.  Didn't even go to his funeral and I'd saved a beautiful red dress to wear to it forever.   Just walked away from the whole thing.

On the hair front, I have a friend who chops my hair but they only visit once every few years, hair is now shockingly long, have to loop it up, out of danger, when I'm dealing with the fire.  Maybe you could go long too but if you do, keep away from the fire.  I send you heartfelt solidarity. x

[imitationleather]

Sorry to hear about about Mother Zetetic x

[Terence Bowl]

- Immediate aftermath document in draft (who you have to contact in terms of gov departments, businesses and with what information)

Don't know if you're already aware but the government has a Tell Us Once service.
https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you-need-to-contact-and-tell-us-once

Basically you give them the relevant details and they then inform all the relevant departments, DSS, Council etc (unless you're in Northern Ireland).
I did it just over a year ago and it was relatively quick and painless.

[bgmnts]

Thata shite. Hope you're doing alright with it.

Dreading having to deal with that myself. Hope I die before my mum does to be honest.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Sorry, Zetetic.

I'm just looking back at the eulogy I did for my dad last year. Mum asked if I could do it 'because your brother feels these things more deeply than you do,' THANKS MUM (she's right though).

Five hundred words, shorter than that can feel a bit cursory, longer is hard to get through. I broke it down into:

INTRO: nice to see so many people turning up (he was very sociable so I knew there'd be a reasonable amount of people there).
A thing he told me once about his past which was wise.
A time he was lovely and understanding when I hadn't really expected it.
A nod to how much his friends meant to him through shared interests, but also family
How we all knew he was becoming ill but he still found some pleasures in life.
Thanks all for coming, pasties at the hotel in an hour.

I've just found the actual eulogy on my hard drive, so I'll put it up in case it's any help, tastes may vary etc.

Spoiler alert

A few years ago, my Dad asked if I could say a few words, when it was time for his funeral, and make people laugh.

I said 'No. That's too much pressure'. And yet here I am. Obviously, I said did Yes. He also asked if we could finish up with 'We Are The Champions' by Queen, so that's on the list.

It's lovely to see so many people here. A lot of you knew my Dad as a chiropodist, or a Mason, or someone who really liked jazz, but of course to me and (BROTHER) he was just 'Dad'. And to (GRANDCHILDREN) he was 'Grandad'.

I just want to talk about a couple of moments of him being a Dad. The first, when my brother and I were very young, he told us about being bullied at his secondary school in London. Some lad who was twice his size had been picking on him regularly and in the end, Dad had enough and challenged him to a boxing match in the school boxing gym.

So, I said Dad, did you win?

He said no, I got seven shades beaten out of me. But that guy never bothered me again. And that story genuinely made me look at the world in a different way. Also, I knew I wouldn't last a second in a school with a boxing ring in it, so I was impressed with that as well.

The other moment was when I was a lot older, in my mid-twenties, living in (SOMEWHERE) where I shared a flat with a friend who was also from (HOME TOWN). We were both running out of money, work wasn't going well and we had some awful neighbours and couldn't afford to move again to get away from them. I was feeling pretty miserable and phoned home.

Dad answered, so of course I said 'Is Mum home?' But she wasn't, so instead I told him the shine was coming off the whole living away from home experience. And he immediately said 'Do you want to come home for a bit until you've sorted yourself out? And I realised that yes, I did. And then my friend phoned her mum who said 'mmm, I think you should stick it out really.' And then I realised I'd won at Parents.

Dad had been diagnosed with Altzheimer's a little while back, and it was starting to show. Without Mum doing an amazing job looking after him, I think we all know the end would have come a lot sooner. But when it did come, he was still recognizably Dad, which is to say funny, kind and charming. He was very much an armchair-based Grandad, although he was willing to be taught how to do a raindance by (GRANDDAUGHTERS), as long as he didn't have to do the backwards bit. He loved his (DAUGHTERS IN LAW) and appreciated those friends who took him out to the jazz, or for meals.

And I know all those friends and family and everyone here today will miss him very much.

[close]

[flotemysost]

Nothing practical to add but I'm sorry you're going through this, Zetetic.

[Bentpitch]

My mum died less than two weeks ago. We've spent the last 2 weeks in NI sorting as much as possible. Funeral (service, then cremation) was this Monday just gone. Miss her terribly.

Her will was really short (divide it all 4 ways between the kids, give grandkids a bit of cash each). We've spent the last week sorting stuff ourself (closing accounts, moving others into our names, etc) before handing the big legal stuff off to the solicitors (House, estate in general, probate blah). They don't do Tell Us Once in Nortern Ireland so we've had to do each thing separately. Sent her driving licence to the wrong agency as a result (DVLA, should have been DVA in NI) but don't suppose that matters, it'll get cancelled eventually.

Wish we'd known her passwords. She didn't keep them anywhere. There are two laptops that we need into but there's no way to get into em. We have her ipad and phone and worked out their codes easy enough so still managed to sort a lot but yeah, they're a mystery for some stuff other people need.

Don't turn off the mobile phone service until you've sorted all the online accounts - 2-factor authentication is a bastard if they've added a phone number. We got a workaround but it was a faff and I was already feeling bad, ended up very distressed and crying over something really stupid that would never bother me normally.

Just keep all paper account stuff like statements, etc in one box. My mum was pretty good with that so it didn't take much sorting into what was relevant now.

You don't need to go through bereavement service depts for eg amazon or ebay if you have passwords. My mum was a bit of an online shopper. It's fine to just cancel the accounts as long as they have no debt in those accounts.

I did the eulogy this Monday just gone. Similar in structure to what Jack Shaftoe said.  It's actually available online as we streamed the service from the crematorium (normal now) but I think it'd be super weird to share it! I concentrated on feelings and examples of how and why my mum was great, on her feelings (eg about living without my dad who died 10 years ago) and her quirks. A shared laugh of recognition is a lovely comfort during a thing like this. I went all in on the emotions and didn't bother with biography as everyone there already knew her very well. Tried to remember to include something about everyone important to her whether family, friends or the community in general. Feels needy to say it went down well, but I got told by different people it really captured her so I was kinda proud of the job I did.

Now back home and just staring into space a lot.

[Dex Sawash]

Mother's passwords are things like 'dirt' because who would guess you would use something with a very mildly unpleasant connotation as a password. Reckon she is hiding something.

[canadagoose]

Sorry to hear about your mother, Zetetic. I don't really have much to add, but I have no idea what I'll do when my parents both go. I'm not good at getting rid of sentimental stuff. Most of it will probably end up in a storage unit at Fort Kinnaird.

[Zetetic]

I'm not good at getting rid of sentimental stuff. Most of it will probably end up in a storage unit at Fort Kinnaird.

Argh, dealing with the actual stuff seperate to probate is going to be nightmare. The house is packed to gunwales with things (which at the moment means I have no fucking space myself, and all my stuff is just on the few surfaces in my room here, including the floor, because there's nowhere else to put it), a small number of which diverse people are going to want and the vast majority of which is just mass.

(I, uh, do actually like, and love, my mother but I badly need to go home even if it's just for a few days. Drink with human people and not just cats. Maybe kiss one of them. Be able to buy a decent coffee. Be metropolitan scum. Not be drowning in the detritus of what feels like a couple of generations and 2-6 people, mostly deceased.)

[Zetetic]

Passwords are a good shout @Bentpitch.

Advice on eulogy length is extremely helpful @Jack Shaftoe - I can never do written work without word limits or something like that.

@Buelligan , I get dreadful split ends, and I think I look much better if I keep on top of these (much though my partner likes to pick them like the twin-apes we are).

Appreciate you highlighting the service @Terence Bowl - also got the Death Notification Service, finding pension details service, and what I need to post to who (but should pre-prep envelopes).

[checkoutgirl]

"Bog standard old woman. Are we burnin' or buryin'?"

[horse_renoir]

The 'Tell us Once" service is great, but be prepared for some things to slip through the net - you might get an unexpected fairly insensitive phonecall querying direct debits etc.

Getting passwords in advance is good, plus finding out who the actual service providers for the internet/energy etc are  (rather than waiting for letters/bills to turn up).

[Zetetic]

Good shout @horse_renoir on both counts.

I have access to the energy accounts, not least so I can keep the gas on whilst she still alive. (No, these aren't direct debits. No, there isn't a good reason for this.)

[pancreas]

Perfect.

My advice for giving any presentation of any material to any audience is:

  pick one good story;
  tell it very well;
  and then stop.

Because mostly people are fucking dreadful with all of clarity, purposefulness and concision.

You maybe could do something in sixty seconds that's spot on. Probably people would feel short-changed with less than 3 minutes. The main thing is that they mostly completely lose attention after 20 minutes, not because it's a long-breathed narrative that has to take that long, but because they're being peppered with a list of increasingly dull items. 'And then this other thing happened'.

I'd say my advice gives a sufficient set of criteria to give a good presentation, but not it's not a necessary set—e.g Jack put a great triptych of contrasting stories together in his speech. (It's mostly designed to get the point of concision across to rambling PhD students.)

[pancreas]

Spoiler alert

A few ...

[close]

Perfect.

My advice for giving any presentation of any material to any audience is:

  pick one good story;
  tell it very well;
  and then stop.

Because mostly people are fucking dreadful with all of clarity, purposefulness and concision—and stopping: just fucking stop; you just have to just do it. Just. Stop.

You maybe could do something in sixty seconds that's spot on. Probably people would feel short-changed with less than 3 minutes. The main thing is that they mostly completely lose attention after 20 minutes, not because it's a long-breathed narrative that has to take that long, but because they're being peppered with a list of increasingly dull items. 'And then this other thing happened'.

I'd say my advice gives a sufficient set of criteria to give a good presentation, but not it's not a necessary set—e.g Jack put a great triptych of contrasting stories together in his speech. (It's mostly designed to get the point of concision across to rambling PhD students.)

And I note that the posters on CaB do this automatically. Viz. Buelligan's Shameful Happiness thread. Some bang-on writing in there.


Lastly, solidarity Zetetic. Definitely you need to flee for a few days so get on with it.

[SetToStun]

I'm truly sorry you're having to prepare yourself for this, Zetetic. My father died very suddenly just over 10 years ago and none of us were ready for it. The one call service was a huge help (the person I spoke to was an enormously sympathetic and helpful Geordie bloke - weirdly the accent actually helped). One thing I would suggest when the time comes and you see the registrar is to get at least five copies of the death certificate - everyone you have to deal with will want a certified copy rather than a photocopy/scan and some organizations can be slow to return them which then shunts the next task back and so on.

The two things that really stand out in my memory are the bloke at the Inland Revenue who said we had to provide details of everything my dad had earned that tax year (he died three days into the new tax year) and the Indian chap at Vodafone who, when I called to cancel Dad's contract, finished the call by saying "don't think of your father as having died, he has just taken the next step on a path we must all walk many times". When I told my mum that bit she actually smiled, so that was a small ray of sunshine, at least.

[pancreas]

I do wonder if most of Asia is much better at dealing with death than most of Europe.

[greencalx]

Most of the admin side is fairly straightforward - but I second the thing about passwords. Although even knowing my mum's iCloud password, after some period of inactivity I needed to do a second-factor authentication, and with her mobile service terminated and second device no longer operational, I was stumped...

Do get the power of attorney set up as this simplifies things massively. If you're lucky it'll come through before she passes away. (It expires once they die though.) This will let you manage all financial affairs ahead of time, which means that if these are scattered across different providers you can get into one place. (With my in-laws we are currently looking at something like 20 different financial relationships to consolidate, which is a royal PITA posthumously.)

Apart from that, the process has been streamlined somewhat post-pandemic (at least, north of the border). The hospital emails the registrar, and the registry side of things can now probably be done over the phone. Take a look at the details that Tell Us Once asks for, and make sure you have access to that. Not all funeral directors are equal - for my mum and dad we used a traditional family firm who were excellent. We just used the hospital's default for my father-in-law, and there was a bunch of stuff they didn't do which created extra hassle and upset for my grieving wife, so we're going with a more-frills firm for her mother. (Depending on where you are in Devon I may be able to give you some pointers. I can also give some anti-advice re a SW firm of solicitors.)

Utilities are weird - British Gas put the account on hold after my mum passed away, meaning you don't have to pay anything until probate is granted. Although you can expect them to send threatening letters from time to time. Not sure if this is universal across all energy companies.

Insuring an occupied property is eyewateringly expensive. And even then you need someone to pop in from time to time. Get someone in to clean the windows and tidy the garden from time to time so it doesn't look like the place is derelict.

EDIT: If there's any possibility an inquest might be required, try and find out ahead of time, as this can drive coach and horses through your best-laid plans.

[Zetetic]

Do get the power of attorney set up as this simplifies things massively.

Finally getting this moving today.
(Insofar as getting donor and cert provider signatures done this afternoon, hopefully.)

Depending on where you are in Devon I may be able to give you some pointers. I can also give some anti-advice re a SW firm of solicitors.

Just south-east of Exeter - any pointers very welcome. DM if you'd prefer. Thanks @greencalx for the offer regardless.

Get someone in to clean the windows and tidy the garden from time to time so it doesn't look like the place is derelict.

Good points. Getting gardening setup now because I am lazy as fuck/unable to summon any sense of efficacy or point half-the-time for the Sisyphean tasks involved.

[Zetetic]

One thing I would suggest when the time comes and you see the registrar is to get at least five copies of the death certificate - everyone you have to deal with will want a certified copy rather than a photocopy/scan and some organizations can be slow to return them which then shunts the next task back and so on.

Understood.

[Zetetic]

Perfect.

My advice for giving any presentation of any material to any audience is:

  pick one good story;
  tell it very well;
  and then stop.

Yes, something very brief with a through-line would be good. Trying to work on something better than her watching the moon landings with her father sat on her parent's bedroom floor, contrasted with me and her watching the second plane hit the South Tower whilst stuck in a traffic jam near Stonehenge.

Probably something involving her doing 137 MPH in an Opel Monza 3.0 GSE at 3am on the M3, since she still seems extremely proud of this. (Before being overtaken by an Ford Sierra RS Cosworth, I believe, like she wasn't moving.)

I know, I know. I have time to work on it. Probably.

Lastly, solidarity Zetetic. Definitely you need to flee for a few days so get on with it.

What I think I really need is

Spoiler alert

someone that I had a soul-destroying crush on for years to bite the shit out of me on Saturday, and shamefully the thing that keeps tipping me over the age into balling my eyes out is the terror that I'm fucking the possiblity of that up, and feeling terrible that this what's occupying my mind rather than the suffering of my mother.

Edit: It's not the end of the world if I do fuck that up. Poor timing tbh.

[close]

[Terence Bowl]

One thing I would suggest when the time comes and you see the registrar is to get at least five copies of the death certificate - everyone you have to deal with will want a certified copy rather than a photocopy/scan and some organizations can be slow to return them which then shunts the next task back and so on.

As greencalx said things seemed to have changed a bit since covid. My dad died towards the end of 2020 when the pandemic was in full swing and everything was done either online or on the phone. When my mum died at the start of last year I found that nothing much had changed. I bought a couple of extra copies thinking I'd probably need them now things were back to normal but I didn't.

The bank just told me to take the death and probate certificates to the local branch where they scanned them and then emailed them to their head office and I emailed a scan in pdf format to a few other places and that was it. It wasn't a complicated estate though.

I don't know if it's the same everywhere in the UK but my local council give you one paper copy for free then charge £10 per additional copy for the first month then £15 per copy thereafter as they add a spurious 'search fee' as though someone is sent to rake through an end of Raiders type warehouse but I'm fairly sure that they're still just typing the reference number you've given them into a computer and hitting print.

[greencalx]

Yeah, my memory is of only having to send one hard copy death certificate - everyone else was happy with scans (although this was during lockdown, so maybe the rules were relaxed back then). Just conferred with my wife who tells me she's only needed to provide two hard copies, and both were sent back by return. So don't go overboard I reckon.

[Zetetic]

I have heard there's less of a need for a ton of certs these days, but for £30 or something I might as well get more rather than fewer.

Thanks for the DM @greencalx, lots of useful stuff there.

[SetToStun]

I'm glad to hear things are a bit easier with the certificates these days - I had always assumed it would be one of the last bits of bureaucracy to soften. Ten years ago it was a constant round of posting them out and waiting for them to come back again.

I admire you for getting things prepared in advance, @Zetetic - I know I should do the same for my mum (she's already sorted EPAs for me and my brother) but it's much, much easier to just kick it down the road than it is to deal with.

[Zetetic]

Finally getting this moving today.
(Insofar as getting donor and cert provider signatures done this afternoon, hopefully.)

Did this at least. First 8 signatures done. Something like 16 more to go.

[gilbertharding]

Sorry to hear your bad news Z.

Re LPA - what happened to us was: about 15 years ago my parents, very sensibly, put in place the arrangements with their solicitors for me and my siblings to be named as having lasting power of attorney for them. I remember signing a document and getting it witnessed and everything. Then, 10 years later, when we actually needed it (my mum went suddenly into hospital, leaving my dad literally sat in a chair at home all day waiting for the 3x daily care visit... then she died and my dad had to go into a home) WE DIDN'T, ACTUALLY, HAVE LPA.

Apparently there is (or was?) a second step, which the solicitor assured us they never usually take... so in order to get my dad's money to pay for the home he had to imminently enter, we had to get a solicitor around to the house to speak to him alone (note: he was fully aware of everything, but it would take him ages to get a sentence out) and have him sign something (he'd had several strokes, and his right hand was all fucked up from when he'd fallen and broken several bones).

All extremely, and unnecessarily, stressful for all concerned.

And then, for some reason I can't quite remember, we had to get him physically to his bank to sign something else. I wasn't there for that, but my brother and sister told me that was also ridiculously difficult too.

And then he also died, a few months afterwards.

The Tell Us Once service was fairly good (as in - we didn't notice anything occurring). I remember Virgin Media had a bereavement service which cancelled the broadband really well. Cancelling the Radio Times subscription was almost impossible. And the solicitors, who executed the wills, and sold the house, were completely useless. Slow, inefficient, uncommunicative.

[Zetetic]

Regarding cancellations of various services - I'm almost certainly going to have to live in the house for a bit, and I need to bear that in mind and if there's any messing about with the estate I'll need to do.

(Three cats for one thing, which we won't be able to redistribute straight-away - there are plans.)