Why do Americans say 'British' when they mean 'English'?

[Kankurette]

Not American, but there was a woman on Come Dine With Me who thought Finland was in Iceland and Portugal was in Spain. Nobody tell RONALADO. I mean, they don't even speak the same fucking language but no, she kept insisting that Portugal was in Spain and would not be told otherwise.

[jamiefairlie]

They say "Briddish", acshully.

They also say "Scoddish", especially Scots who move there.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

They also say "Scoddish", especially Scots who move there.

Leave Creg Ferguson alone!!

[Zetetic]

You'd think the one country that would get it right would be the United States though since their setup isn't all that different.

It's quite different - actual federalism is unimaginable to Westminster and most of England, and federal states aren't dominated by single constituents in the way that England dominates the UK.

(Compare the US, Germany, Yugoslavia, the Soviet Union, Russia,...)

[jamiefairlie]

Do French and Scottish football fans bond over hating England or are the French arsed cigs about us?

To an extent yes. All over Europe you tend to get a different reaction once they know you're Scottish.

On the American British/English thing, many of them think Britain is just England and that Scotland is not in Britain but in some vague netherworld they can't quite place, but not Britain because that is London and Downton Abbey.

[jamiefairlie]

It's quite different - actual federalism is unimaginable to Westminster and most of England, and federal states aren't dominated by single constituents in the way that England dominates the UK.

(Compare the US, Germany, Yugoslavia, the Soviet Union, Russia,...)

Also Canada.

[jamiefairlie]

I think saying British is generally better, because it covers all of the isles. I don't think I'd refer to someone from the ROI or their accent as "British", but it's the best shorthand we have for talking about people from the UK regardless of which home nation they're from, which is more than you can say for whoever decided to badge our Olympic sides as Team GB. Would I refer to someone from Gibraltar or the Falklands as a Brit? Thankfully I never have to deal with those people.

The American thing is an odd sort of hypercorrection. I don't think any Brit would have given the name "Wee Britain" to that scene in Arrested Development, nor would they refer to black people in general as "African American". There are other oddities in how they either don't know how to think of us or can't hear the difference between our accents that you see in things like Mrs Doubtfire being described as British, probably supposed to be English specifically, but portrayed with a Scotch accent.

" I don't think I'd refer to someone from the ROI or their accent as "British"

You could probably do with firming up that commitment a fair bit. They also prefer "Ireland" I believe.

[touchingcloth]

" I don't think I'd refer to someone from the ROI or their accent as "British"

You could probably do with firming up that commitment a fair bit. They also prefer "Ireland" I believe.

I meant it in the sense that you can technically see Ireland as British due to being part of the British Isles, but that's very much an atypical usage given that British tends to mean UK (cf. "American" to mean the USA in many contexts, because UK-ish and USA-ish don't work every well, and people resort to things like "North American" if they want to include Canada and/or Mexico, or "from the Americas" if they're talking about the continent as a whole).

[Zetetic]

I think XCOM 2 has Irish soldiers use "UK English"-tagged voicepacks which seems fairly conclusive.

Edit: Also India.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

Do French and Scottish football fans bond over hating England or are the French arsed cigs about us?

depends whether you're in brittany or marseilles i bet

[Midas]

If you want a picture of the future, imagine--keep calm and carry on, milk in first, cobs/baps/rolls, jam-cream-scone, london 2012, harry potter and the verybritishprolapse--stamping on a human face - for ever.

[Dex Sawash]

Has anyone mentioned that it's probably down to many of us being pig shit thick? That'll be it most likely.

[Buelligan]

I see you cannot read.

[Stoneage Dinosaurs]

Do Americans in general have any concept of the Welsh at all? My ignorant perception of American attitudes towards Briddish things is that they believe the English to be TOODLE PIP TEA AND CRICKET or GOR BLIMEY GUVNAH, the Scottish to be FREEEEEDOM OCH AYE CAPTAIN THE NOO and the Irish to be FIDDLE DEE DEE LEPRECHAUNS AND DRUNKENNESS, but I've never heard a Welsh stereotype out of an American mouth. The only time I've seen US media even acknowledge Wales's existence is the episode of Archer that's set there, and iirc that was entirely based on a bunch of stuff Matthew Rhys educated Adam Reed about on a bus journey

[Video Game Fan 2000]

i loved meeting/hearing americans in midwales because they fucking loved it, it instantly turns them in the positive stereotype of a yank with a camera round their necks going AHH GEE, I DIDNT KNOW Y'ALL HAD ALL THIS HISTORY AND NATURE HERE and talking about b&b fry ups like they were miracles of engineering YOU HAVE A GOOD NOW, I LOVE YOUR COUNTRY

[Video Game Fan 2000]

remember being on the train from birmingham while this massive santa claus looking guy with stanley kubricks steadicam dangling around his neck used asking an old couple if there was a wetherspoons in aberystwyth as an opportunity to regale the entire carriage with the biblical epic that was his holiday in wales where he meet the nicest people on earth and saw the most beautiful things man has ever seen and ate profound, soul transfiguring fry ups assembled like swiss watches by old lady geniuses in b&bs saying all this awe-struck HOO-WHEE and DANG ALL IT MAN and WELL, GOLLY GEE shit in between each detail slapping his knees like he was doing a lederhosen dance on the generation game. he kept leaning back and saying "well isn't that just great" with total ted danson sincerity

people say "they should have sent a poet" but this time they actually did and i was [checks english to american dictionary] "here for it"

[ros vulgaris]

A lot of Brits don't even realise the Republic of Ireland is indepedent, so you know.

[TheAssassin]

"English" comes from a root meaning "narrow" (via a peninsula in eastern Schleswig-Holstein whence the Anglii came) and "British" is unclear but most plausibly means "painted" (like Pict; it was originally Pritannica or ancient Greek Pretannike before the Romans messed it up.) And of course "Albion" means "white" (allegedly for the chalk cliffs), but "Alba" is used in Irish and Scots Gaelic to refer to Scotland.

So is England more narrow, painted, or white?

British comes from gaelic, Dumbarton comes from Dùn Breatann, Fort of the British.

[TheAssassin]

A lot of Brits don't even realise Ireland is indepedent, so you know.

Is it?  The whole of Ireland?

[Buelligan]

Do Americans in general have any concept of the Welsh at all? My ignorant perception of American attitudes towards Briddish things is that they believe the English to be TOODLE PIP TEA AND CRICKET or GOR BLIMEY GUVNAH, the Scottish to be FREEEEEDOM OCH AYE CAPTAIN THE NOO and the Irish to be FIDDLE DEE DEE LEPRECHAUNS AND DRUNKENNESS, but I've never heard a Welsh stereotype out of an American mouth. The only time I've seen US media even acknowledge Wales's existence is the episode of Archer that's set there, and iirc that was entirely based on a bunch of stuff Matthew Rhys educated Adam Reed about on a bus journey

I give you Mr Kobyashi, the archetypal American's Welsh person -

[Noodle Lizard]

I think this is ok isn't it? Actually shows quite a good level of appreciation that not everybody with a 'British' accent is from England. I wouldn't expect your average American to recognise the difference between regional UK accents any more than I would expect myself to detect the difference between, say, Ohio and Arizona accents.

That's exactly it, it's erring on the side of caution, especially when faced with a thick Geordie or Liverpudlian accent. The UK has a ridiculous amount of regional accents for its size, and frankly most Americans have no real reason to care too much about distinguishing between them - why would they spend time learning this in school?

I'm English, but my family is Welsh and Irish. Fine being called a Brit.

[Buelligan]

I don't hate being called a Brit.  Not really.  English though, no. 

Really prefer no one to mention it or mention anyone's nationality, it's like calling someone a blonde or a bit old/young or any other thing that's slightly weird to talk about unless absolutely necessary.

That bald-headed man off the telly.

[Kankurette]

Do Americans in general have any concept of the Welsh at all? My ignorant perception of American attitudes towards Briddish things is that they believe the English to be TOODLE PIP TEA AND CRICKET or GOR BLIMEY GUVNAH, the Scottish to be FREEEEEDOM OCH AYE CAPTAIN THE NOO and the Irish to be FIDDLE DEE DEE LEPRECHAUNS AND DRUNKENNESS, but I've never heard a Welsh stereotype out of an American mouth. The only time I've seen US media even acknowledge Wales's existence is the episode of Archer that's set there, and iirc that was entirely based on a bunch of stuff Matthew Rhys educated Adam Reed about on a bus journey

They don't even get sheep shagging jokes. In the US, it's the Scots who fuck sheep.

[bgmnts]

Gedda fuck outta heeere you goddamn Briddish limey asshole.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

I don't know whether to refer to English people as British or shove them up my ass

[Theoretical Dentist]

British comes from gaelic, Dumbarton comes from Dùn Breatann, Fort of the British.

It's more like parallel development leading to similar words for Britain in English and Gaelic than one language getting it from the other.

English Britain is thought to derive from a Common Brittonic root reconstructed as *Prɨdėn, via Ancient Greek, Latin and Anglo-Norman. Common Brittonic was the ancestor of the Brittonic languages spoken in Great Britain, and names derived from the same root exist in the modern descendants of Common Brittonic – Welsh (Prydain), Cornish (Breten) and Breton (Breizh, but it's more complicated because on its own it refers to Brittany, with Breizh-Veur directly translating to 'Great Britain' and meaning the same; conversely in Cornish, as far as I can tell, Breten on its own means Britain and Brittany is Breten Vyghan or Breten Vlan, meaning 'Little Britain').

In Old Irish Bretain, derived from Latin Brittōnēs, is the word for Britons (people from Britain). This is the root of the word for Britain (the island) in the modern Goidelic languages Irish (Breatain) and Scottish Gaelic (a' Bhreatainn). It's also the root of Manx Bretyn which on its own means Wales, and appears in Yn Vretyn Vooar which means Great Britain and directly translates as 'the Great Wales' or 'the Great Britain'; Yn Vretyn Veg ('the Small Wales' or 'the Small Britain') is a synonym for Vretyn, whereas Brittany (which is what 'Small Britain' equivalents in other languages refer to) is Britaan, which I guess may be a more recent borrowing although I couldn't find any etymological information.

So English, Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx all have terms for Britain that derive from Common Brittonic via Latin, and the Brittonic languages Welsh, Cornish and Breton have terms derived more directly from Common Brittonic, reflecting the fact that words with this root were used in Britain before Gaelic arrived in Scotland.

[Mr Vegetables]

I mean, speaking as a Scottish person, Scotland's status is pretty unusual. We have our own legal system and also we don't; we have our own national identity and call ourselves a country while also having been heavily involved in the British Empire, because we are part of the British State.

This is all contested and confusing even in actual Scotland. I'm not surprised people thousands of miles away get confused. We are two different things simultaneously in a world which feels increasingly uncomfortable with ambiguities; identity here sometimes revolves around picking one.

But just like Britain might see the Republic of Ireland as foreign and not foreign at the same time, we probably are British and not British at the same time— words being a confusing mess that suggest way too many things at once. The idea that any of this is simple and can be resolved with a dictionary is more naive than what the Americans are doing: their confusion at least shows they can see there is something confusing here, while the title of this thread cannot

[spaghetamine]

because their mouths are stuffed full of dollar bills and miniature skateboards

[madhair60]

WHITE BRITISH? I'M ENGLISH MATE. WHITE ENGLISH

[spaghetamine]

WHITE BRITISH? I'M ENGLISH MATE. WHITE ENGLISH

A bloke I work with refuses to identify as British because he doesn't want anything to do with "those people" by which he means the Scottish, Welsh and Irish. The same guy once said he can't be bothered to cook because all food apparently tastes the same and that winning the lottery would be pointless once you'd bought everything you wanted and it'd mainly involve a lot of sitting around. I'd love to know what the inside of his brain is like.