Post Beatles Beatles relationships

[kngen]

My sense is that Yoko didn't pull that kind of stunt especially frequently, and John wasn't part of it.  In fact he seems fairly irritated by it himself in that moment, as he's engaging in Beatletalk with the band and she's screaming for attention like it's bring your daughter into work day or something.  "What do you want?!"

This too, of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9kgu71d81U

Probably happened enough - or stuff like it - to know that bringing her along to the session was a bad idea. I love my wife dearly, but I wouldn't have her in 10 miles of a rehearsal let along a studio session, even if she promised to sit in the control room and not raise a peep. Fucks with the band's dynamic too much - even on a subconscious level.

Like gilbertharding, I was - and this was inculcated by my hippy parents - of the mind that criticism of Yoko was purely misogynistic. A lot of it really was, but she does genuinely seem like an awful person, and I can't help feel like John weaponised that given his naturally antagonistic nature and his fairly shitty attitudes to his bandmates towards the end. Just a hunch though - I'm a total dilettante when it comes to this kind of analysis of their final days as a band, as fascinating as it is.

[Sin Agog]

Part of the reason I find George's Extra Texture album fascinating is because it's a work by someone who is so clearly bitter, depressed, angry and utterly defeated whereas the entirety of his subsequent work seems like the work of someone who has resolved to put less of themselves in their art. From 33 & 1/3 onwards he hides behind professionalism and tasteful slide guitar licks

No joke at all, but I think that bloody garden of his robbed us of that painfully earnest side of his. He transferred all his demons into his landscape features.

[Replies From View]

This too, of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9kgu71d81U

Probably happened enough - or stuff like it - to know that bringing her along to the session was a bad idea. I love my wife dearly, but I wouldn't have her in 10 miles of a rehearsal let along a studio session, even if she promised to sit in the control room and not raise a peep. Fucks with the band's dynamic too much - even on a subconscious level.

Like gilbertharding, I was - and this was inculcated by my hippy parents - of the mind that criticism of Yoko was purely misogynistic. A lot of it really was, but she does genuinely seem like an awful person, and I can't help feel like John weaponised that given his naturally antagonistic nature and his fairly shitty attitudes to his bandmates towards the end. Just a hunch though - I'm a total dilettante when it comes to this kind of analysis of their final days as a band, as fascinating as it is.

I think John was weakened through the Yoko Beatles period through drugs and allowed himself to be led by Yoko; I don't think he even had the drive to weaponise her against the group, more a lack of impulse to stop her sabotaging things.  As he later came back together with himself in the mid 70s, he recognised that during the 1968-73 period he was lost and confused, particularly after the Beatles split, and recognised that his early 70s attacks on Paul were actually self-hatred that he was directing outwards.

What is Yoko beyond some kind of screaming, frustrated toddler.  MY JOHN IS OVER THERE WITH SOMEONE WHO ISN'T ME, THEREFORE:  WHAHAHAHAAUURRRURUURRRURRURUUURRRRURURURR.  GOOD, NOW THE OTHER PERSON HAS GONE AWAY AND I HAVE JOHN ALL TO MYSELF.

I'll happily be told that she was more than that, but that's all I can see and hear.  I can't be doing with her.

[a duncandisorderly]

This too, of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9kgu71d81U

fuck's sake woman, shut the fucking fuck UP. jesus!

[Sin Agog]

As to Yoko, I've spoken to her in person once. Perhaps Julian reminded her of both Kyoko and John, and she didn't want to reopen those wounds?  She's never been in a relationship since John, and is still clearly madly in love with the guy.  Maybe, socially, she is a melange of autistic, narcissistic and solipsistic, and her attempts at imitating the cheeky chappies might seem pretty laboured, but she is also a beacon to a lot of causes and people.  I really do love the woman.

Her first husband Toshi Ichiyanagi was a bonafide genius in my opinion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOhVVGuQreI / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8j7w7emvOk). The old artworld in Japan was one peopled by the landed nobility.  It's almost like an extra rung on the Indian caste system, and people born into it have a certain kind of myopic attitude where the entire world besides the artistic vangard may as well not exist.  This is where 'John Lennon's Excrusive Gloupie' (actual newspaper headline) was coming from. The Beatles weren't a big deal to her. She was a grown woman who'd already lived a full life.  I don't think her innovations in the Fluxus movement should be discounted outright. I get that from the outside, the pretensions and affectations of this type of artist might make them come across like a load of chancers indulging themselves.  'Avant garde a clue' to quote Harrison.  But people like Yoko really do offer so many people who'd otherwise drown in utilitarianism a glimpse of a richer, less sensible world.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I think part of the reason for John and Yoko's mutual attraction is that they were both at a similar stage of arrested development. They both seemed like extremely vulnerable people at that time. Two people with fraught early lives that imbued them with a mixture of insecurity, arrogance, narcissism and brilliance. They both had growing up to do, and had careers that had incubated them from having to do that

[lipsink]

I'd never really considered it before, but I can't help but feel John was using Yoko to antagonise the others as a kind of power-play. I suppose I thought he was blind to her more obnoxious habits, but having your missus in the recording room screeching over the mic while you're setting up? Total piss take.

I read David Quantick's book on the White Album recently and apparently Yoko also gave lots of unsolicited criticism of McCartney's songs. I bet that went down well.

[chveik]

This too, of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9kgu71d81U

haha, she's really great. does anyone genuinely enjoy the self indulgent blues rock they're playing or do they just want to hate her?

[Sin Agog]

As to more John & Yoko projects that I think eclipsed the solo material, their work with David Peel producing and playing on The Pope Smokes Dope LP is so great.  Love that album endlessly.  There's a fantastic clip of them playing on the David Frost show: https://youtu.be/gIotyodXO-8

[a duncandisorderly]

haha, she's really great. does anyone genuinely enjoy the self indulgent blues rock they're playing or do they just want to hate her?

hate her, no. but her interjection there is astonishing & it's questionable whether it was appropriate. even if you're tired of the cliched bollocks r&r retread. amusing most of all is berry's reaction & the way the backing band just sort of power through it like seasoned professionals.

[Sin Agog]

haha, she's really great. does anyone genuinely enjoy the self indulgent blues rock they're playing or do they just want to hate her?

Seriously.  Her interference came during pop music's biggest act of regression.  Going from Technicolor and Vistavision pysche music to Daguerreotype white man blues rock.  Yammer all you like through that grim noise.

[a duncandisorderly]

Seriously.  Her interference came during pop music's biggest act of regression.  Going from Technicolor and Vistavision pysche music to Daguerreotype white man blues rock.  Yammer all you like through that grim noise.

I get that, but she was hardly being constructive here-

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/68911122415/january-10th-1969-twickenham-film-studios

[Nowhere Man]

Seriously.  Her interference came during pop music's biggest act of regression.  Going from Technicolor and Vistavision pysche music to Daguerreotype white man blues rock.  Yammer all you like through that grim noise.

But the video in question features a song written and performed by Chuck Berry, who was quite notably a black man.

[grassbath]

I think part of the reason for John and Yoko's mutual attraction is that they were both at a similar stage of arrested development. They both seemed like extremely vulnerable people at that time. Two people with fraught early lives that imbued them with a mixture of insecurity, arrogance, narcissism and brilliance. They both had growing up to do, and had careers that had incubated them from having to do that

Interesting point, and I'd argue the same is true of Lennon and McCartney.

Speaking of Yoko and her interference, I've always had a kind of horrified fascination with the hate-jam that she, John, Paul and Ringo launched into after George walked out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsnzEl-LMEU

For a start it's a mean fucking riff, but madder is Ringo thrashing like a madman and looking like if he wasn't at a drum kit he'd be strangling someone instead ('I don't drum like that as a rule'), John looking only at Yoko while she screams his name, and Paul, looking utterly depressed and defeated, rubbing his bass on the amp for feedback. Look at that thousand-yard stare at the start of the video - when have you seen him look like that before or since?

[kngen]

haha, she's really great. does anyone genuinely enjoy the self indulgent blues rock they're playing or do they just want to hate her?

By the looks of it, her husband was quite enjoying himself - you'd think that would count for something.

[a duncandisorderly]

Interesting point, and I'd argue the same is true of Lennon and McCartney.

Speaking of Yoko and her interference, I've always had a kind of horrified fascination with the hate-jam that she, John, Paul and Ringo launched into after George walked out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsnzEl-LMEU

For a start it's a mean fucking riff, but madder is Ringo thrashing like a madman and looking like if he wasn't at a drum kit he'd be strangling someone instead ('I don't drum like that as a rule'), John looking only at Yoko while she screams his name, and Paul, looking utterly depressed and defeated, rubbing his bass on the amp for feedback. Look at that thousand-yard stare at the start of the video - when have you seen him look like that before or since?

I've listened to a lot of faust, neu!, sonic youth, branca, can... even gigged with damo a couple of times.... that was fucking horrible.

I need to wash my ears out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_LiEjIMhoc

[massive bereavement]

She's never been in a relationship since John

Sam Havadtoy until 2001.

I rank her above anybody associated with The Beatles, including the fab four themselves, those first two albums are incredible. When she's calling John over from discussing a replacement, she's basically saying "Hey! I'm the replacement, quit talking and let's get back to playing", she sat on George's cushion to belt that one out. She could steal my biscuits and set up a bed in my recording studio anytime.

[Sin Agog]

Ah, didn't know thay.  Filthy harlot.

I should say Approximately Infinite Universe is alright in its own way, too.  She's not sending us postcards from the edge anymore, but there are some nice bits of proto-New Wave on there like Move On Fast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUcUaPlUzFs. Big Star also lifted the piano melody wholesale from Mrs Lennon for Holocaust.  But yeah, those first two albums are a wonderful creative apogee.  I can get a bit defensive as she's always been a bit of a litmus test for me, which is childish I know.  I can see myself dancing all over that video of her Glastonbury set with Yo La Tengo backing her at Glastonbury a few years ago.  One of my favourite moments.

I was a freaky sideshow attraction of a kid who could recite any Beatles lyric by heart, and would happily gab away about Cry For a Shadow, but Yoko broke the carapace and I love her for that.  Women genuinely do get judged by a whole different set of criteria.  She may as well actually be the Neo-Nazi in The Rutles for all the shite thrown her way.  Some youtube comment sections seem like an excuse to break out all the pent-up aggression and resentment they've ever felt in their lives because it's just Yoko innit.  Guess in that way she successfully brought primal scream therapy to the masses.

[Bennett Brauer]

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/53462054296/january-13th-1969-twickenham-studios-london

& look at that last line from lennon- "We – there's no way we could have translated it to him, to say... you know."

having finally said, out loud, what each of them brought to the process of creating a lennon/mccartney song, clearing the air, they remember poor george.

I'm not sure McCartney's actually saying mongrel in that clip, but that's probably one for Twitter to sort out some time.

[Bennett Brauer]

I read David Quantick's book on the White Album recently and apparently Yoko also gave lots of unsolicited criticism of McCartney's songs. I bet that went down well.

Quantick still holds a torch for her - he thinks she's a genius.

[biggytitbo]

This might be a good trivia question, but are the beatles the only band where all 4 members had at least one solo number one? There must be others, especially ones with two members, but with four?

[Satchmo Distel]

It's unique to The Beatles. However, Ringo never had a solo #1 in the UK but had a couple in the US.

[a duncandisorderly]

This might be a good trivia question, but are the beatles the only band where all 4 members had at least one solo number one? There must be others, especially ones with two members, but with four?

almost certainly.
the next nearest, in terms of having successful solo careers & a strong team of songwriters would be genesis.
I don't think either hackett or banks have had number one singles though.

[a duncandisorderly]

john & george seemed to have patched things up by the time they were working on this; can't help feeling that macca was the thing niggling both of them. yoko still interfering- trying to tell spector how to use a mic, ffs, but still.... better...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV5z_btMbuQ

[Sin Agog]

john & george seemed to have patched things up by the time they were working on this; can't help feeling that macca was the thing niggling both of them. yoko still interfering- trying to tell spector how to use a mic, ffs, but still.... better...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV5z_btMbuQ

Can't watch youtube on this broken old ipad, but I'm assuming that's a clip from Imagine.  If I recall correctly, what Yoko was describing sounded awfully similar to what became post-punk.

Fascinating scene in that movie of a completely fried, far-gone fan turning up at John's door as if he had the answer to whatever it was he was looking for, and John inviting him in for cereal and heartfelt, down-home advice.  He could be a snidey get, but that compassionate side was just as close to the surface.

[nedthemumbler]

With a film crew around aye.  Bit like whenever it is noted how lovely and down to earth celebrities are on talk shows or whatever.  They are well aware of the millions of viewers, its not much to be polite and modest for a bit.

Makes it all the more astonishing that sometimes some do still end up demonstrating their super-cuntishness on air.


Sorry, not a John bash, I love his work dearly, but he was a bit more complicated a man than his messiah image post 1980 would suggest.

[a duncandisorderly]

well, yeah, all that, but what I was noticing was that george seemed completely comfortable.

[kidsick5000]

Fascinating scene in that movie of a completely fried, far-gone fan turning up at John's door as if he had the answer to whatever it was he was looking for, and John inviting him in for cereal and heartfelt, down-home advice.  He could be a snidey get, but that compassionate side was just as close to the surface.

I've always loved that scene. Having to break it to the fried fan that "Boy, you got to carry that weight" was Paul.

Has that guy ever come forward?

[massive bereavement]

It wasn't uncommon for Lennon to chat to fans who turned up on his doorstep, there's a lot of photo's out there of him posing in front of his door. Some would get invited in or even given a lift back into London with him in his rolls. There was one fan who ended up in the audience of John and George's appearance on the David Frost talking about the Maharishi after cold calling one evening.

[Sin Agog]

I've always loved that scene. Having to break it to the fried fan that "Boy, you got to carry that weight" was Paul.

Has that guy ever come forward?

Not sure, but I just remembered reading that the same fellow from the movie also disturbed the recording of the Dick Cavett show at one point, asking some long, bizarre, and unanswerable question from the audience. Some eerie foreshadowing there.