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May 28, 2024, 06:05:52 AM

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Israel and British comedy

Started by lauraxsynthesis, November 10, 2023, 08:27:49 PM

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Buelligan

Quote from: Steve Faeces on February 14, 2024, 10:45:12 PMWhether or not he was in the IDF and is an appalling human being, he was there as a punter just like anyone else.

It sounds, from other audience members, like a situation that got out of hand and was dealt with poorly by the comedian rather than Paul Currie whipping up a crowd into an Antisemitic rally which is what Josh Howie, and other partial commentators who weren't there claimed happened.

Agreed.  I wasn't there but agreed.  And I would add, a six year member of Unit 8200 is not just some lad forced into the IDF.  These are a very different group whose raison d'être is to make life desperately frightening and miserable for their victims.  And six years of it is hardly an indication of reluctance.

Two wrongs and all that but it's important to consider the motivations, the previous, of all the actors in this or any, event.

lb99

Apart from that tweet, is there any evidence of that guy being a member of Unit 8200?

Buelligan

There are the images attached to the tweet.  Haven't looked into them or any other aspect yet, been mucking out stables since the crack.  But will certainly do that later today and report any further info, if you like.

lb99

I looked at the images but couldn't see any reference to Unit 8200.

I'm obviously pro a free Palestine and anti-Zionist, but I think we need to be careful about spreading uncorroborated information. That's the sort of thing Zionists do.

Buelligan

Yes, I agree, that's why I said I hadn't checked them yet. 

Still, lazybones' precis of the event (as a person who was present) and their question about why a person would pay for front row seats without knowing the content of the show (and their point that the show had played at that venue for several days before without incident) does lead one to consider why an online "proud zionist" with an apparent six year stint in the IDF, who now works for Google (so is quite capable of researching Currie - current show reviews, life history), would find themselves there, offended and then immediately contact the MSM (and get a voice).

Buelligan

Just reporting back to say I've found nothing more (apart from a couple of other similar tweets) - though, take a look at his linkedin - I won't link it here, doesn't seem quite fair but it's easy to find.  He doesn't like Dave Farina much and I wouldn't trust his opinions on comedy.

phantom_power

It was shitty behaviour to harangue an audience member but I don't know how they can say it is anti-Semitic if he didn't know they were Jewish or Israeli

Senior Baiano

Fucked up that Paul Curry done a pogrom

tribalfusion

It's pretty telling that the most chatter generated about Palestine and comedy in GB seems to be this Currie story.

I would think that after what you saw happen to Corbyn that you'd all have a sharper sense of things than this.

There's absolutely no way anyone serious can trust a single thing out of the mouth of someone who was in the IDF without hearing that the person renounced Zionism first.





Buelligan

I was thinking more about this.  It did occur, what would the reaction have been if Currie had only produced a Ukrainian flag.  If that man had been Russian and had told Currie/the world that he didn't like the show of racist solidarity with Ukraine?

Mobbd

Quote from: Buelligan on February 15, 2024, 04:25:40 PMI was thinking more about this.  It did occur, what would the reaction have been if Currie had only produced a Ukrainian flag.  If that man had been Russian and had told Currie/the world that he didn't like the show of racist solidarity with Ukraine?

I've been thinking more about it too.

If the guy really was a proper IDF scumbag as your digging would seem to suggest, we're lucky and so is Paul Currie. But how did Currie know any of that? I don't suppose he did. Maybe some communication passed between them that the rest of the audience didn't hear but if they guy had said something truly appalling Currie would have spoken up by now, no?

There may or may not have been claims of racism if it was just the Ukrainian flag and the audience member had been Russian. Though the way people regularly conflate Jews with Israel probably doesn't have a strong analogue with Russians and Russia. I'm not sure if it's really worth speculating tbh.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Buelligan on February 15, 2024, 10:03:40 AMtheir question about why a person would pay for front row seats without knowing the content of the show

This is obviously an enormously complex situation, but I think the above is extremely dubious, if possible I never want to know what a show is going to be about and always go in blind if I can, and over the past ten years have done so well over a couple of hundred times.

Buelligan

Surely part of that choice is the acceptance, if you go in totally blind, that you may not like what you see?

Mobbd

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on February 15, 2024, 07:59:23 PMThis is obviously an enormously complex situation, but I think the above is extremely dubious, if possible I never want to know what a show is going to be about and always go in blind if I can, and over the past ten years have done so well over a couple of hundred times.

I agree to be honest. Sometimes I just go to stuff.

lipsink

There's been just complete silence from other comedians about this as far as I can see? Is no one stepping up to show solidarity with Paul Currie? Perhaps because he's got a history of run ins with audience members in the past?

Or is everyone just shit scared it might damage their own careers?

Pink Gregory


Blinder Data

Quote from: Buelligan on February 15, 2024, 09:49:52 PMSurely part of that choice is the acceptance, if you go in totally blind, that you may not like what you see?

yes, and you might express that by not giving a standing ovation (which sounds like it was almost forced on the audience by the performer anyway).

if you are the performer, you should expect that some audience members won't like what you do.

but it is reasonable as an audience member to expect not to be shouted at and harangued out of the auditorium for saying you do not like the show or aspects of it when directly asked by the performer.

(the background of the guy and his pals in this moment is not relevant, as the performer didn't know that at the time)

Buelligan

IMO, the relevance goes, both ways, to motivation.  As you say, Currie (almost certainly) did not know the background of this man.  However, this man, almost certainly, had motivation to attack Currie for the content of his show.  Maybe even motivation to attend it with that intention.  We cannot know but we can treat the whole event with some scepticism.

What is the alternative?  Police comedy, Art, not by audiences not attending or not applauding but via outrage in the pages of the Daily Heil?

lipsink

#108
I've seen Paul Currie live a few times and he does get very annoyed and aggressive at people leaving or people not reacting the way he wants them to. He also went a bit overboard with shoving a rubber duck in people's faces for them to kiss if they refuse to kiss it. Don't think he does that bit anymore though.

Mobbd

Quote from: Buelligan on February 16, 2024, 11:02:43 AMHowever, this man, almost certainly, had motivation to attack Currie for the content of his show.

But he didn't attack Currie, Buellers. All eye witness accounts say Currie went to him.

I think the rightness or wrongness of this all depends on what the guy said to Currie that made him go bananas. If the guy said "they should die like dogs" then fine. But if he just said "I won't applaud that flag" or "I'm Israeli" then Currie's got a problem.

Buelligan

I should have been clearer.  I don't mean attack, like leap on him.  I mean attack like go out of his way to really smite Currie in the media.  I just don't see that as a normal response when being harangued by a comedian.  Sure, walk out if you want to.  Anything more, especially without evidence, is a bit much, IMO.


Mobbd

Quote from: Buelligan on February 16, 2024, 08:48:03 PMI should have been clearer.  I don't mean attack, like leap on him.  I mean attack like go out of his way to really smite Currie in the media.  I just don't see that as a normal response when being harangued by a comedian.  Sure, walk out if you want to.  Anything more, especially without evidence, is a bit much, IMO.



Ah, gotcha. My bad. x

Small Man Big Horse

#112
Quote from: Buelligan on February 15, 2024, 09:49:52 PMSurely part of that choice is the acceptance, if you go in totally blind, that you may not like what you see?

Of course, and there have been three occasions in the past year where everyone else was clapping and I refused to*. But if the performer then started interrogating me as to why I wasn't clapping I'd think it was really out of order.

Quote from: Buelligan on February 16, 2024, 11:02:43 AMWhat is the alternative?  Police comedy, Art, not by audiences not attending or not applauding but via outrage in the pages of the Daily Heil?

The alternative is for the artist not to demand an explanation as to why they weren't giving him a standing ovation. Fucking hell, it's not rocket science. And if Currie hadn't acted in the way he did why on earth do you think any newspaper would be covering the story?

I mean, I absolutely could be 100% wrong and maybe the guy in the audience deliberately went to see Currie's show with the intention of not applauding it at the end knowing that Currie would ask him why and he could say something racist and make Currie explode with fury. But phrasing it in the way that you did until we have a better understanding of what happened is fucking insane.

Quote from: lipsink on February 16, 2024, 08:10:16 AMThere's been just complete silence from other comedians about this as far as I can see? Is no one stepping up to show solidarity with Paul Currie? Perhaps because he's got a history of run ins with audience members in the past?

Or is everyone just shit scared it might damage their own careers?

A couple of days ago I got an instagram email suggesting I follow accounts that some of my friends do, and Currie's was one of them. The account was set to private but I clicked follow and he accepted me, and this was the most recent post at the time:



I haven't checked to see how many of the 2126 other people were comedians, or why it mentioned Jessica (as I currently don't follow her) but I'm guessing most comedians weren't in the room and so can't really express an opinion other than "I don't know what happened".
Edit: Ah, actually I do follow Jessica, so that'll be why.



*I'm very aware that makes me sound like an arsehole, and I might be one, I try not to be, but I can't say. But I hated the performances from Rosie Holt, the cast of Iannucci's Pandemonium and Joe Wilkinson so much that my brain wouldn't let me clap, and trust me, I've faked it countless times before.

Buelligan

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on February 17, 2024, 10:34:19 PMOf course, and there have been three occasions in the past year where everyone else was clapping and I refused to*. But if the performer then started interrogating me as to why I wasn't clapping I'd think it was really out of order.

You might think that, would you go to the papers about it?  And, at this terrible moment in history, when a genocide is being committed against the people, little children, of Palestine, would you make a huge fuss in the papers about your feelings being hurt, even if they were?

Everyone's entitled to feel a little upset (for not being understood, whatever, I feel a little upset about being called fucking insane).  Nevertheless, I find, obviously some don't, the idea that some London front-rower's feels get more column inches that the horrific deaths going on, is a bit more than out of order.  Again, if that lad had been Russian, outraged at Currie's waving of a Ukrainian flag, would we even be having this convo, we need to think about that.

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on February 17, 2024, 10:34:19 PMThe alternative is for the artist not to demand an explanation as to why they weren't giving him a standing ovation. Fucking hell, it's not rocket science. And if Currie hadn't acted in the way he did why on earth do you think any newspaper would be covering the story?

I mean, I absolutely could be 100% wrong and maybe the guy in the audience deliberately went to see Currie's show with the intention of not applauding it at the end knowing that Currie would ask him why and he could say something racist and make Currie explode with fury. But phrasing it in the way that you did until we have a better understanding of what happened is fucking insane.

I think the papers are motivated to cover this story in this way, in the same way as they are motivated to tell us about 40 beheaded babies or UNWRA being full of Hamas or any of the other bullshit they promote because their owners like it that way.  I don't think I'm fucking insane for viewing in that way.  Or alone.

Just to be clear, I carry no water for Currie, I hate to see Comedy and comedians being policed by papers like the Heil.  They have a bad enough effect on the rest of life.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Buelligan on February 18, 2024, 07:54:37 AMYou might think that, would you go to the papers about it?  And, at this terrible moment in history, when a genocide is being committed against the people, little children, of Palestine, would you make a huge fuss in the papers about your feelings being hurt, even if they were?

Everyone's entitled to feel a little upset (for not being understood, whatever, I feel a little upset about being called fucking insane).  Nevertheless, I find, obviously some don't, the idea that some London front-rower's feels get more column inches that the horrific deaths going on, is a bit more than out of order.  Again, if that lad had been Russian, outraged at Currie's waving of a Ukrainian flag, would we even be having this convo, we need to think about that.

I think the papers are motivated to cover this story in this way, in the same way as they are motivated to tell us about 40 beheaded babies or UNWRA being full of Hamas or any of the other bullshit they promote because their owners like it that way.  I don't think I'm fucking insane for viewing in that way.  Or alone.

Just to be clear, I carry no water for Currie, I hate to see Comedy and comedians being policed by papers like the Heil.  They have a bad enough effect on the rest of life.

You suggested the following:

QuoteIMO, the relevance goes, both ways, to motivation.  As you say, Currie (almost certainly) did not know the background of this man.  However, this man, almost certainly, had motivation to attack Currie for the content of his show.  Maybe even motivation to attend it with that intention.  We cannot know but we can treat the whole event with some scepticism.

And okay, it's not impossible - but the idea that an audience member deliberately went along to a show by a comedian who is not famous at all, where if he didn't go in blind the PR blurb explains he will be doing the show silently, and none of the reviews mention that he held up a flag from any country, just so that he could not clap at the end, and then Paul Currie would of course ask him why, and he could be very quietly racist (to the extent that none of the people in the room seem to know what he said) and anger him leaves me all but speechless.

So yeah, I mean "fucking insane" is too strong I guess, but I've read your post over and over again and the lowest I can go to is "absolutely mad".

And I wasn't calling you "fucking insane" about the newspaper coverage of the event or the genocide. That's being deliberately disingenuous.

tribalfusion

Once more, this has very little to do with Currie.

Israel is one of the most intensely ideological places on earth and someone like the guy in question is almost certainly not some random punter whose dainty feelings were legitimately wounded.

The fact that this is the only incident regarding British comedy and Palestine to gain any traction is the least surprising thing in the world.

And I really think that more of you should intuitively understand this.


Steve Faeces


In the LBC interview Liahav Eitan mentions that he does background checks routinely on club nights (and "almost any event") in case the DJ speaks about "Israeli occupation or something like that." If you're vetting a performance that is likely to be 99.9 per cent music why wouldn't you anything else?

It's at 2:05ish on the video. So he does vet things he goes to see normally. He says this isn't a very pleasant thing to hear as an Israeli. There's no right to not hear unpleasant things up to a point (also he claims any Ukrainian would have been upset with the juxtaposition of their flag and the Palestinian one which is a completely unevidenced claim.)

So non verbal show or not, he doesn't go in blind routinely to events. And I'd imagine part of that is checking social media, he himself mentions Instagram, and from Paul Currie's social media it's pretty clear where he stands. If a DJ saying something at the end of their set, also non verbal for most of it, is cause for concern then you'd think the same would apply here and he might give it a miss.

Was giving this guy the benefit of the doubt in some respect but his story keeps changing and is completely unsupported as far as I'm aware. Has one single person come forward to back up his original story as opposed to the many casting doubt on it? One single person who is not him or his friend. Because I'm pro-Palestine but if I saw two Israelis be hounded out by a whole crowd chanting "get out and ceasefire now" at them and that was led by the comedian I'd still be pretty pissed off and think that was a shitty thing to happen on a night out and speak out about it.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Steve Faeces on February 18, 2024, 01:07:00 PM

In the LBC interview Liahav Eitan mentions that he does background checks routinely on club nights (and "almost any event") in case the DJ speaks about "Israeli occupation or something like that." If you're vetting a performance that is likely to be 99.9 per cent music why wouldn't you anything else?

It's at 2:05ish on the video. So he does vet things he goes to see normally. He says this isn't a very pleasant thing to hear as an Israeli. There's no right to not hear unpleasant things up to a point (also he claims any Ukrainian would have been upset with the juxtaposition of their flag and the Palestinian one which is a completely unevidenced claim.)

So non verbal show or not, he doesn't go in blind routinely to events. And I'd imagine part of that is checking social media, he himself mentions Instagram, and from Paul Currie's social media it's pretty clear where he stands. If a DJ saying something at the end of their set, also non verbal for most of it, is cause for concern then you'd think the same would apply here and he might give it a miss.

Was giving this guy the benefit of the doubt in some respect but his story keeps changing and is completely unsupported as far as I'm aware. Has one single person come forward to back up his original story as opposed to the many casting doubt on it? One single person who is not him or his friend. Because I'm pro-Palestine but if I saw two Israelis be hounded out by a whole crowd chanting "get out and ceasefire now" at them and that was led by the comedian I'd still be pretty pissed off and think that was a shitty thing to happen on a night out and speak out about it.

See that I find interesting as it's actual evidence of Liahav Eitan revealing that the going in blind thing isn't possibly true, compared to the hearsay and conjecture that was polluting this thread beforehand.

jobotic

The man's been through hell and I'm glad he's found a sympathetic ear in GBNews, LBC and the entire British press.

lauraxsynthesis

I'd love a Russian come forward to say the were upset by the Ukrainian flag and to then get their fair hearing from Chortle,  GBNews, LBC and the entire British press. 

It's so weird to me that this happened the night after the Masli gig where 3 members of the audience mentioned the genocide in Gaza. And Masli and another audience member talked about their guilt at having Russian heritage. I would hope and perhaps expect that a London comedy audience is sympathetic to the Palestinians to the extent of not wanting them eliminated as a people and bombed to death in their tens of thousands. It's horrific that someone like Eitan, who I surmise probably does want the Palestinians eliminated asap, is trying to silence an attempt by a comedian to comment on this situation.

Also just want to mention that I'm not a bit surprised that Jews are afraid of persecution even when in a comedy audience and even if it's all in their head. I'm not saying the audience member(s) definitely didn't have reason to feel fear that night, but that being told your whole life that the society you live in is a danger to you is going to have consequences. I think it's particularly unkind to holocaust survivors in the UK that Zionists try to instill in them a fear for their safety that's disproportionate to reality. The whole business of pretending that a Labour government was going to reopen Auschwitz, for example. Stop terrorising Jews with lies ffs. 


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