Israel-Gaza Conflict III - This Time It's On-Topic

[Buelligan]

I think the world is having a breakdown.

Meanwhile - there are no churches or Christians in Gaza.  Yep.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

"there aren't any Christians because evil Muslims, I mean Hamas" fuck you. Fuck you.

[Buelligan]

And she starts the conversation with

I saw the reports this morning...

and ends with

Well, I don't know what happened, I don't know who was attacked, I didn't see the report.

Why do Israel even bother putting up these obvious bare-faced liars?  Can it be that they assume no one's listening?  If so, they're very wrong.

[Paul Calf]

It's a demonstration of power, like the stupid helmets worn by dictators' soldiers or the ridiculous goose-stepping march - they lie because they know that no-one in power dares to oppose or ridicule them, and they need you to know that.

[Blumf]

I think that's some of it, but it seems like a lot of Israeli spokespeople are believing their own bullshit. A desperate need for a justification for their oppression to clear their conscience.

See also US's mythologies regarding it's treatment of Native Americans, or Britain's treatment of Ireland.

[greenman]

I think a lot of it comes down to them being used to environments were they can get away with that degree of bullshit, were you can literally say anything which comes into your head and not have it questioned.

[Buelligan]

Impunity.  Is what it is.

Remember this?



And now there's this-



https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-18/ty-article/.premium/hundreds-of-gazans-arrested-during-war-held-blindfolded-and-handcuffed-at-israeli-base/0000018c-7ce6-de44-a9be-7df678fd0000

[Paul Calf]

I think a lot of it comes down to them being used to environments were they can get away with that degree of bullshit, were you can literally say anything which comes into your head and not have it questioned.

The people who appoint them to these jobs know very well how their bullshit is going to come across.

[greenman]

They give the impression to me of people used to giving melodramatic performative announcements rather than those used to being questioned.

[Kankurette]

"there aren't any Christians because evil Muslims, I mean Hamas" fuck you. Fuck you.

What is the Church of Nativity, what is Bethlehem, we just don't know

[Barry Admin]

I'm closing this thread for a day or two to get a break from the endless reports and drama.

Don't make a new one.

Don't post the content elsewhere on the forum.

Don't keep reporting the same people over and over to try and get them banned.

Do use the ignore function you all spent years asking for.

[Barry Admin]

Reopened. Please, if there's someone you really hate on here, just put them on ignore. Don't keep hovering over their posts to find stuff to try and get them banned for - a number of you do this.  It's not fair on me.

I don't have the time or energy for these constant fights and shit. Please please try harder.

All of you.

On both sides.

[Fry]

Saw Rishi getting all pissy during the liason committee when Alicia Kearns pushed him on the responsibility for the slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians. He confected this mock outrage that anyone would suggest Israel bares any fault for the deaths in Gaza.

Clearly Sunak is a right wing nutjob and a thoroughly terrible person, but there's something interesting in his reaction. A defensiveness that went beyond his normal thin-skinned reaction to questioning. This coming pretty close to the time where the Gov's official position seems to be edging closer to a call for a full ceasefire makes me wonder what's been in the security briefings he's received. Is it dawning on him how utterly unhinged the nation he's given full backing to is? Has he figured out that when this is over and the scale of destruction and it's long term consequences have become clear, his legacy will be tied to it forever? Or maybe he's just stressed because he's shit at his job and no one likes him.

[Mr_Simnock]

Saw Rishi getting all pissy during the liason committee when Alicia Kearns pushed him on the responsibility for the slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians. He confected this mock outrage that anyone would suggest Israel bares any fault for the deaths in Gaza.

Clearly Sunak is a right wing nutjob and a thoroughly terrible person, but there's something interesting in his reaction. A defensiveness that went beyond his normal thin-skinned reaction to questioning. This coming pretty close to the time where the Gov's official position seems to be edging closer to a call for a full ceasefire makes me wonder what's been in the security briefings he's received. Is it dawning on him how utterly unhinged the nation he's given full backing to is? Has he figured out that when this is over and the scale of destruction and it's long term consequences have become clear, his legacy will be tied to it forever? Or maybe he's just stressed because he's shit at his job and no one likes him.

I was surprised by the sudden call for a ceasefire from France and have wondered the same about them in suddenly realising what they are actually backing. I think this 'war' is the beginning of a slow end of israels impunity to do what it likes with Palestinians\west bank\gaza.

[greenman]

I'm guessing perhaps also a realisation they may be held liable for abetting war crimes.

[Buelligan]

Saw Rishi getting all pissy during the liason committee when Alicia Kearns pushed him on the responsibility for the slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians. He confected this mock outrage that anyone would suggest Israel bares any fault for the deaths in Gaza.

Clearly Sunak is a right wing nutjob and a thoroughly terrible person, but there's something interesting in his reaction. A defensiveness that went beyond his normal thin-skinned reaction to questioning. This coming pretty close to the time where the Gov's official position seems to be edging closer to a call for a full ceasefire makes me wonder what's been in the security briefings he's received. Is it dawning on him how utterly unhinged the nation he's given full backing to is? Has he figured out that when this is over and the scale of destruction and it's long term consequences have become clear, his legacy will be tied to it forever? Or maybe he's just stressed because he's shit at his job and no one likes him.

I think it may be something to do with the recent fall in inflation in the UK last month, it's down to something just over 3% (from memory).  That puts him well in the zone for standing in front of the electorate and telling them the tories can fix that shit and must be a relief for him given the success of the Rwanda debacle, the state of the economy recently and the general sense that Britain is fucked.

Obviously, the Houthi insurgency in the Red Sea in the last week or so will fuck that right up the arse.  So there's that, with an election coming soon and the tories eating each other.  Last thing he wants is increased prices for shit.

[Kankurette]

Saw Rishi getting all pissy during the liason committee when Alicia Kearns pushed him on the responsibility for the slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians. He confected this mock outrage that anyone would suggest Israel bares any fault for the deaths in Gaza.

Clearly Sunak is a right wing nutjob and a thoroughly terrible person, but there's something interesting in his reaction. A defensiveness that went beyond his normal thin-skinned reaction to questioning. This coming pretty close to the time where the Gov's official position seems to be edging closer to a call for a full ceasefire makes me wonder what's been in the security briefings he's received. Is it dawning on him how utterly unhinged the nation he's given full backing to is? Has he figured out that when this is over and the scale of destruction and it's long term consequences have become clear, his legacy will be tied to it forever? Or maybe he's just stressed because he's shit at his job and no one likes him.

I wonder if there's pressure within the party for him to call for a ceasefire.

[Paul Calf]

He's just having a quick round of phone calls to his donors to ask them how far he's allowed to go with the ceasefire thing. That's what they're all doing.

[Buelligan]

I just have to draw your attention to this, in case you haven't seen it.  Disturbing is a tiny word for something this big.

[RenegadeScrew]

I don't agree with everything he says, but a good lecture and better Q&A

[BlodwynPig]

Here's your answer: Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism.

[RenegadeScrew]

Here's your answer: Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism.

Cheers for yet another pointless snide remark.

[BlodwynPig]

Cheers for yet another pointless snide remark.

Just the facts. Don't waste time giving that hollow argument oxygen. Just a bit of advice.

[RenegadeScrew]

Just the facts. Don't waste time giving that hollow argument oxygen. Just a bit of advice.

I don't need your advice.  You looked at a video title then responded with your usual "here's your answer" shite.  Don't waste both our time responding to me with your holier-than-thou crap, just a bit of advice.

[BlodwynPig]

I don't need your advice.  You looked at a video title then responded with your usual "here's your answer" shite.  Don't waste both our time responding to me with your holier-than-thou crap, just a bit of advice.

What are you on about.

Anti zionism is not anti semitism.

Its a plain fact. No nuance. The incursion of nuance allows for racism. Senator Hawley.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

ah yeah why not get the thread locked again sure

nother toothless UN resolution passed anyway:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/22/un-security-council-passes-resolution-on-increased-gaza-aid-delivery

The United Nations Security Council has passed a resolution to boost humanitarian aid to Gaza, following several delays over the last week as the United States lobbied to weaken the language regarding calls for a ceasefire.

The resolution, which calls for steps "to create the conditions for a sustainable cessation of hostilities", passed on Friday with 13 votes in favour, none against, and the US and Russia abstaining.

The vote came amid international calls to bring the months-long conflict to an end, as Israeli forces pummel Gaza with one of the most destructive campaigns in modern history and humanitarian conditions in the besieged strip reach critical levels.

More than 90 percent of Gaza's 2.3 million residents have been displaced, and conditions under Israeli siege and bombardment have been described by UN officials as "hell on earth".

Intense negotiations took place over the last week, with other member states searching for language that would avoid US objections that have doomed previous resolutions on Gaza in the 15-member body, where the US is one of five countries that hold a veto.

The original draft called for "an urgent and sustainable cessation of hostilities" and gave the UN increased control over aid deliveries into Gaza. The adopted resolution opts for less equivocal language on a ceasefire and maintains Israel's control over all aid.

"This was tough, but we got there," US Ambassador to the UN Linda Thomas-Greenfield said following the vote.

While a trickle of aid trucks have delivered much-needed assistance to Gaza, aid groups say that truly addressing the strip's humanitarian crisis will not be possible as long as hostilities continue.

"The real problem is that the way Israel is conducting this offensive is creating massive obstacles to the distribution of humanitarian aid inside Gaza. An effective aid operation in Gaza requires security, staff who can work in safety, logistical capacity, and the resumption of commercial activity. These four elements do not exist," UN chief Antonio Guterres told reporters following the vote.

Before the vote, Russia proposed an amendment strengthening the language around a ceasefire, saying that the draft resolution had been "neutered" by the US.

"By signing off on this, the council would essentially be giving the Israeli armed forces complete freedom of movement for further clearing of the Gaza Strip," Russia's UN Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia told the council before the vote.

Thomas-Greenfield accused her Russian counterpart of hypocrisy, pointing to Russia's own destructive invasion of Ukraine that began in February 2022.

But the US has faced accusations of a double-standard over its position on Gaza, with critics saying that the US has spent months railing against Russia for violations of international law in Ukraine while providing Israel with weapons and diplomatic support, even as it faces similar accusations over its conduct in Gaza.

The US vetoed a UNSC resolution calling for a ceasefire earlier this month, and was one of the few dissenting votes when the UN General Assembly passed a ceasefire resolution by an overwhelming margin last week.

"The vast majority of Security Council members, and members of the General Assembly, all want a ceasefire, a complete halting of the bombardment of Gaza, in order to facilitate aid," Al Jazeera correspondent Gabriel Elizondo reported from UN headquarters.

Earlier this week, the UN called for an investigation into allegations of the killing of unarmed Palestinians by Israeli troops in the strip, and hospitals, UN schools, medical workers, mosques, and churches have also been targeted.

Israel has said that it is working to dismantle Hamas, the Palestinian armed group that governs Gaza and launched a deadly attack on southern Israel on October 7 that killed more than 1,000 people, most of them civilians, and took more than 240 captive.

More than 20,000 Palestinians, most of them women and children, have been killed since the current round of fighting began.

At this stage I'm pretty sure Hamas was counting on Israel to go full genocide just to expose the hypocrisy of the US and show the world what a pack of bloodthirsty cunts the Israeli government are. I'm not feeling particularly well-disposed towards Israel or Israelis right now.

[idunnosomename]

incredibly bald man celebrates 600 deaths at the core of Gaza City, sort of thing they consider Arab Muslims are obsessed with doing.



it's quite illustrative, actually. this guy was far too much of an hellbent wingnut Zionism apologist before 2019 to have any public profile, but since his digging up the "English irony" thing on Jeremy Corbyn he's got the top job in the rescued from bankruptcy Jewish newspaper no one buys. No one mainstream is echoing him on this though (because its a fucking awful war crime)

[Deano]

I don't agree with everything he says, but a good lecture and better Q&A

Would be good to summarize as I don't think on any of the threads yet that anyone has argued for anti-zionism actually being anti-Semitism

[Kankurette]

It isn't, but it is used as an excuse for antisemitism. Like people who think Holocaust denial is somehow helping Palestinians.

[buttgammon]

incredibly bald man celebrates 600 deaths at the core of Gaza City, sort of thing they consider Arab Muslims are obsessed with doing.



it's quite illustrative, actually. this guy was far too much of an hellbent wingnut Zionism apologist before 2019 to have any public profile, but since his digging up the "English irony" thing on Jeremy Corbyn he's got the top job in the rescued from bankruptcy Jewish newspaper no one buys. No one mainstream is echoing him on this though (because its a fucking awful war crime)

It doesn't take much imagination to think of another violent extremist saying something similar about a similar atrocity and getting arrested for it.