Started by Retinend, January 22, 2014, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: Petey Pate on January 22, 2014, 02:19:00 PMOn a personal level I'm not fussed with how music is labelled, all that fundamentally matters is whether I enjoy it or not.
QuoteAlso "classical" music has interacted with and borrowed from "mass culture" music on many occassions and vice versa. To give just one example of the latter, a significant amount of prog rock like Yes and Emerson Lake and Palmer (who had a big audience in the early '70s) was appropriating from dead composers. The different musical forms aren't that simply opposed to each other.
Quote from: Retinend on January 22, 2014, 02:19:30 PMI'm talking about those handful of huge media companies whose financial resources allow them to dominate public perception of popular music. In the same way that hollywood used to monopolize the world of film back in the 30s and 40s. This is the grain of truth in the idea that popular music is becoming increasingly derivative and unoriginal.
QuoteI think the analogy here between "writing music for the nobility" and "writing music for a film" is entirely linguistic. For example films scores can be divided into chunks like "building tension" "terror" "escape" "freedom" which are dictated by the images on screen. What chunks would "the nobility" impose? This is nonsense. The nobility and church were the musicians.
QuoteWhilst in Hamburg, Handel made the acquaintance of Prince Ferdinando de' Medici, son and heir of the Grand Duke of Tuscany, who invited Handel to visit Italy where he spent more than three years, in Florence, Rome, Naples and Venice. By 1706 he had reached Rome, where Marquis (later Prince) Francesco Ruspoli employed him as a household musician and where most of Handel's major Italian works were composed.
QuoteItaly was a great center of musical activity particularly during the first 20 years of the 1700s, and Handel was to meet and exchange ideas with many of the leading composers, musicians and nobility of the time - and not only Italians, for it was obligatory for every cultural and music-loving person of any rank or nobility to do the Grand European Tour which naturally included the main Italian cultural centers. Thus on his travels around Italy Handel also made a number of useful contacts including the Duke of Manchester, the English Ambassador, and most significantly Prince Ernst August of Hanover, brother of the Elector (later King George I of England) who pressed him to visit Hanover. The Prince may also have intimated the possibility of a post at the Hanoverian court, for when Handel left Italy early in 1710 it was for Hanover, where he was in fact appointed Capellmeister to the Elector, George Louis, who immediately packed him off on a twelve months' leave of absence to visit England. The Royal Houses of Britain and Germany had always been closely inter-related, and the Act of Settlement of 1701 which secured the Protestant succession to the Crown of England, had made Handel's Hanoverian employer George Louis' mother heiress-presumptive to the throne of Great Britain. Thus the Elector George Louis would have been anxious to have Handel spy out the land and report back to him on the London musical, social and political scene.During this first London visit, lasting eight months, Handel was favorably received at Queen Anne's court, though his eyes were largely set on Vanburgh's new opera house, the Queen's Theatre in the Haymarket. Rinaldo, the first Italian opera specially composed for London, was performed there in 1711 and was a sensational success. Returning only briefly to Hanover in 1711, Handel was back in London by 1712 when he was invited to produce an English Court Ode for Queen Anne's birthday. The Queen normally took little interest in her composers, being (according to the Duke of Manchester) ''too busy or too careless to listen to her own band, and had no thought of hearing and paying new players however great their genius or vast their skill''. It is surprising, therefore, that she granted Handel a pension of £200 a year for life.
Quote from: RetinendThe pre-film "soundtracks" you mention - what would those be?
Quote from: daf on January 22, 2014, 02:37:12 PMBeethoven's Symphony no. 6 ('The Pastoral Symphony') from 1808 sort of fits the pre film soundtrack idea - it's divided into five movements (the equivalent of a film scene).
Quote from: Johnny Yesno on January 22, 2014, 02:39:42 PMIt's not nonsense. Example:
Quote from: Retinend on January 22, 2014, 02:39:12 PMWho said they were "simply opposed"?
Quote from: Retinend on January 22, 2014, 02:39:12 PMThe program goes into this a little. I think it's apparent that the social history (such as the culture of music as a modern academic subject) does tell you why classical/popular divisions exist. Divisions which may not be absolute, but can't be hand-waved either.
Quote from: Retinend on January 22, 2014, 02:55:56 PMThere is no "jump - how high" relationship here.
Quote from: Johnny Yesno on January 22, 2014, 02:39:42 PMSure, but their output represents a decreasing proportion of all the popular music made.
QuoteIt's been a stuffed animal in a museum ever since.
Quote from: Johnny Yesno on January 22, 2014, 03:00:29 PMIf you like. That's not my understanding of patronage, though.
Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 22, 2014, 03:12:44 PMWhat about the err...live animals?
Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 22, 2014, 03:09:53 PMClassical music is still an enormous part of our contemporary culture as well, it infiltrates almost anything you would care to think about, and most people could easily whistle a few famous pieces to you, and listen to it without realising all the time, while simultaneously holding the view they don't enjoy listening to it very much.
Quote from: ZappaI find music of the classical period boring because it reminds me of 'painting by numbers'. There are certain things composers of that period were not allowed to do because they were considered to be outside the boundaries of the industrial regulations which determined whether the piece was a symphony, a sonata, or a whatever. All of the norms, as practiced during the olden days, came into being because the guys who paid the bills wanted the 'tunes' they were buying to 'sound a certain way'.
Quote from: Grass Mud Horse on January 22, 2014, 02:17:27 PMHere's an essay from a US conservative website that seems to conclude that it's possible to have a second great age, if only the kids of today would buck their ideas up: Can There Be Great Composers Anymore? It doesn't support my argument, but it's all debate innit.
Quote from: NoSleep on January 22, 2014, 03:49:37 PMNo... Frederick The Great wanted the wine that Bach provided in a certain shaped glass.
Quote from: Retinend on January 22, 2014, 03:43:23 PMBy that logic, Frederick the Great wrote "Musical Offering." Bach just painted the numbers.
Quote from: NoSleep on January 22, 2014, 03:15:07 PMYou mean the parrots?
Quote from: Retinend on January 22, 2014, 03:33:03 PMCuriously enough, they'll whistle Mozart and not Schönberg.
Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 22, 2014, 05:13:38 PMThis isn't aimed at you but the idea of 'dead' music is practically unhelpful and as a debating point and conceptually, infantile.
Quote from: NoSleep on January 22, 2014, 05:17:08 PMAnd nod off in droves at a concert of one of your choices of modern composer, Steve Reich, as I saw many of his fans do at a gig I was dragged along to. I've never seen so many people fall asleep during a concert.
Quote from: NoSleep on January 22, 2014, 05:27:26 PMFall asleep, apparently. The Future of Classical Music.
Page created in 0.119 seconds with 20 queries.