Four Lions - Your SPOILERY Reviews

[Neil]

Right, Bradford screenings tomorrow, so we're going to need somewhere to discuss the flim without worrying about those who haven't yet seen it.  Please continue to use the existing 'British Screenings' thread for discussion about forthcoming screenings, and post up any further interviews and press reviews there.  This one is strictly for people who have seen Four Lions.

[sirhenry]

The morning after, one line seems to be standing out for me:
"Only one sheep was blown up in the making of this film"

That moment in the film was absolutely perfectly executed, with loads of physical humour ("squat jogging") to get the audience laughing, followed by the characters manically laughing and shouting and the audience being carried along with it, then BOOM! and the whole auditorium took a sharp intake of breath. It felt as if everyone suddenly thought 'Shit! This isn't just a comedy' at the same moment. And then picking it up again to have everyone laughing within a minute. A very impressively-written script.

[niat]

The line that really tickled me was "Fuck Mini Babybels", said by Waj a beat after Omar had completed a rant about western consumerist culture.

The moment sirhenry mentioned above was very well handled, and there was a real collective gasp at that point. The tone of the film seemed to change at this point, but very subtly, as it didn't take long for the banter to resume. The realisation of the seriousness of the situation hit at that point and the tragic path they had chosen was set.

[JPA]

I thought it was fantastic, it's been a long time since a film made me laugh out loud as hard and as often as Four Lions did, I was almost in tears at a couple of points. I think being in a room full of people who were clearly loving every minute of it obviously helped, but this started off at a great pace and it pretty much sustained that level throughout, something which many comedy films fail to do.

That 'fuck Mini Babybel' line really really got me too, I couldn't stop laughing at it. I kept remembering more bits on the way home on the train and laughing to myself - it felt so gag-heavy to me, I really hope it does well.

Someone in the other thread said they could see similarities with TTOI with some of the insults being traded, I also got a Peep Show feeling from some of the arguments - I'm a big fan of 'comedy bickering' done well and this had it in spades.

[Entropy Balsmalch]

The Mini-BBs bit was a highlight for me too.

There was so many laugh out loud moments I'm not going to put them all up here.

But can I also say, I thought the scene in the hospital when he's pretending to be a doctor was incredibly moving and wonderfully underplayed.

In fact, the wife as a character and an actor was incredible. Not an easy part to play or write at all, but just perfectly judged.

Oh, and I would well bang her.

[Entropy Balsmalch]

Second screening was weird, as my seat was still right at the back-center, but on the right-hand aisle this time.  Jesse Armstrong came down and sat on the step next to me, then Sam Bain, and then eventually Morris himself ended up sitting right beside me on the floor.  Very weird.  I didn't want to spend much time staring at them, but it seemed (from my peripheral vision) that Morris couldn't really stick either seeing it again, or just experiencing much of people's real-time reactions.  So he got up after the first 10 minutes or so, and then Bain and Armstrong followed suit shortly after.

I've moved this quote from Neil into here as my point is going to be slightly spoilery...

It's a shame about the Q&A being led by a twat as I really wanted to ask how they think the deaths went down?

In the first Q&A Morris said he thought the film took death very seriously - but clearly some of the deaths were very funny.

I wanted to know did the laughs fall when they expected on these events or not? And did they write/direct any for laughs? Did the laughs feel to them like laughs at the death or out of shock?

[JPA]

Was Morris doing the voiceover on the news report at the end? I started off thinking it might be him, but wasn't sure as it went along.

'Women have started talking back. People are playing stringed instruments.'

'Has your dad ever bought a Jaffa orange? Then he's a Jew'

'Rubber Dinghy Rapids'

'I'll get this' *picks up knife* 'and run over him with a tractor'

That stuff about the head/elbow confusion - 'there was a hinge'

The squat-jogging.

'Who was on the phone?'

The Wookie getting sniped.

Gah, there was so much good stuff in this, I just keep remembering more and more bits. Need to see it again as I'm sure I was laughing over parts of it. Only bearable use of Dancing In The Moonlight ever?

[Edley]

"The report clearly states that the right man was shot but the wrong man exploded."

[weekender]

^ Plus the subsequent shot of Alex McQueen hiding behind a desk.

Couple of points from me:

1. The audience

I'm a cinema snob, and I hated the audience for laughing too loudly at times (it's no wonder many of you missed the "Fuck Mini Babybel" line, which was brilliantly delivered), especially at some of the deaths.  For me, I'm thinking that one of the things that balanced the film out so well was the fine line between comedy and tragedy, and I think the audience last night were TOO easily pleased, and were going to laugh whatever happened.  This is not because the film is unfunny - far from it - but I think some people approach films with a determination that they're going to enjoy them and laugh regardless, rather than appreciating the full content.  Which of course you can't get from one viewing of a film.  However, when you're laughing that loudly, you've already missed many of the moments that I'm trying to appreciate you fucking cunts.  It is for this reason that I have developed a silent laugh at the cinema, and why quite so many of you can't do the same is beyond me, you fucking ignorant bastards.

2. The reason

I might be wrong on this, but it's taken as read that they're already in this terrorist cell, isn't it?  I think they missed a trick there - especially with Omar.  There were a number of occasions when I think a couple of minutes of background to all of the main character's situations would have added a more 'human' dimension to the film, especially when Omar is dealing with his wife and kid.  When Omar is talking to his kid about Simba the lion there's probably some very subtle stuff there that deserves a couple of viewings, and there probably could have been with the other 'Lions' too.

In general though, it really is a fucking good film.  Maybe I'm nitpicking a bit, maybe I've missed parts that other people have picked up on.  It's one of those things, I guess, that Morris has done so well in the past -full of "That's hilarious, what the fuck?" - moments that I need to see it at least a few times again to fully appreciate it.

[Entropy Balsmalch]

Oh, another line popped up in my head tonight which got one of the biggest laughs...

"He's gone all red and is hiding under the pirate hat...."

[CollaterlySisters]

... I hated the audience for laughing too loudly at times... especially at some of the deaths..

Too bloody right. I found the deaths to be shocking, (including the ones which you expect) & hated the 'it's all part of the joke' attitude of some viewers.

Aaaanyway, back to the comedy: the whole 'They're not rabbits, they're chickens' dialogue had me in stitches. A brilliant lead in to the following orders scenario.

[JPA]

Oh, another line popped up in my head tonight which got one of the biggest laughs...

"He's gone all red and is hiding under the pirate hat...."

I'd forgotten about the Party Puffin business, the little on screen animation was great. Regarding the laughter, it was loud around where I sat, but I couldn't say it was forced and there was plenty of stuff that did genuinely make me laugh out loud - and no-one should have to apologise for reacting that way to an out an out comedy surely.
I'd say that the people on here certainly tend to be quite discerning anyway, and in fact would be more disappointed than most had the film failed to deliver. One point though actually where I would agree with your 'easily pleased' comment would be the Rocket Launcher sequence, for me that was absolutely telegraphed, and you could clearly even see markings on the weapon itself that indicated it was the wrong way round.

Too bloody right. I found the deaths to be shocking, (including the ones which you expect) & hated the 'it's all part of the joke' attitude of some viewers.

A couple are particularly played for laughs though surely - squat jogging into the sheep, and Barry being given the Heimlich Manoeuvre. I think a lot of the laughs that surrounded these moments were down to that release after something shocks you, sirhenry's description above is quite an accurate summary I think.

[weekender]

and no-one should have to apologise for reacting that way to an out an out comedy surely.

My point is that we don't know what this film is until we've seen it.  Is it an out and out comedy?  How do you know?

in fact would be more disappointed than most had the film failed to deliver.

To deliver on what?

That's another point, I think that some people had already decided what the film was going to deliver to them.  Being a Morris project I accept that I had high hopes, but until I've actually seen the thing I'm not going to comment on anything like that.

[JPA]

My point is that we don't know what this film is until we've seen it.  Is it an out and out comedy?  How do you know?

People were reacting as they were seeing it - is it fair to say that they were only doing so because they were predisposed to? I'd say it does lean towards being an out an out comedy yes, though obviously there are satirical elements and moments of pathos, the gag-rate leads me to that conclusion.

To deliver on what?

Being funny.

That's my point, I think that some people had already decided what the film was going to deliver to them.  Being a Morris project I accept that I had high hopes, but until I've actually seen the thing I'm not going to comment on anything like that

Some people perhaps. I think a lot of people here had high hopes for it, but wouldn't have been the least bit surpised had it been a massive letdown given the quality of his last few projects.

[Jumble Cashback]

At the risk of debating a slightly futile point, I think that the deaths were not exclusively designed to be funny, but that some were definitely designed with a laugh in mind.  The first one is staged perfectly to produce a laugh, and the audience's laughter (at least in the screening I attended) seemed instinctive, reacting to the suddenness and comical timing of it, rather than as a 'I laugh at edgy comedy 'cause I'm uncompromising that way' type of thing.  The last death, while still conveying tragedy was obviously supposed to be at least partly funny.  Why else would they have had the call-back of him walking into Boots?  But the hostage situation death was a lot more tragic because of the character's personal conflict.

Anyway, I'm not pretending I know the exact intentions of the film-maker, but I think there was definitely a mixture of comedy and drama surrounding the deaths and, to be fair, the whole film.

Oh and the 'just because I'm a p**i, you assume it was real' bit was great too.

[Gavin]

I hated the audience for laughing too loudly at times...

Which showing were you at? I didn't notice this at the 8.30p.m. showing.

Maybe we should scan our tickets in and recreate the audience. I was there with a Chinese woman and a couple of long hairs.

The reason that I found out about the Bradford showing is that my colleague is a friend of one of the crew. He was there for the second showing although not seated with me and my plus three. I cannot go into any detail here as I have not spoken to him about the film since we saw it but my friend Kerry who was also there said he was expressing reservations about the characters and tone. He is a Muslim.

Are they any Muslims on this board who were there? I'm interested in that perspective. Almost the last thing that Morris said in the second Q&A was how easy it is to understand religious devotion despite not being religious. I'm not sure I believe him.

[Neil]

The last death, while still conveying tragedy was obviously supposed to be at least partly funny.  Why else would they have had the call-back of him walking into Boots?

It's a call-back to the notion of blowing up a Boots (as suggested by Fessal right at the start), but the actual store he runs into isn't even a Boots, it's some shitty, generic cosmetics store.  Brilliant moment, very bleak, but I can't decide if there was anything slightly positive in there.  Gut instinct is no, it's a futile, stupid death, which is underlined by the fact that the stupidest one in the group had suggested it.  There's this small part of me, though, that wonders if Omar ran in there because Fessal had suggested it, and Omar wanted to honour him in a way.  I really want to see this for a third time, already, because there's so much to decode in there, and I'm not concinved I fully followed all the things that were going on when the marathon goes tits up. 

I love the ambiguity, in general, that's ALWAYS what I'm after, and there's zero spoon-feeding in Four Lions.  It's brilliant the way the world just kind of...exists.  It's there, and the characters are so well-rounded and performed that they don't need long, laborious set-ups.  Similarily, the marathon gets one reference, I think, and then just naturally becomes part of the narrative.  There's no Hollywood-style fretting over setting things up ahead of time, they have this clearly-defined universe that's so well thought-out that they whip you straight into it without wasting any precious time.

I know apex was particularly impressed with Omar's wife, and I'd agree with that - the support of his wife and child is an incredible dynamic, and I love how it is mirrored and referenced through Omar's relationship with Waj.  While discussing the wife with apexjazz, it finally clicked that, blimey, she works in a hospital! 

The group dynamics are just a joy, really.  That's what it's all about, the power struggle between Barry and Omar, and the way they all relate to each other.  I was glad Ambient Sheep pointed out that Barry is actually a full-on caucasian convert (and I'm glad this wasn't spoon-fed to the audience - his name alone should have tipped me off, and probably would have eventually.)  Barry must have been the one who had the Islamic music on, so seeing him sitting fuming when the Muslims all turned it off and stuck on Toploader was an absolute joy. 

Loved it.  LOVED IT.

[Neil]

'You thought it was really going to explode just beause I'm a muslim!'

Loved that line to bits.

That moment in the film was absolutely perfectly executed, with loads of physical humour ("squat jogging") to get the audience laughing, followed by the characters manically laughing and shouting and the audience being carried along with it, then BOOM! and the whole auditorium took a sharp intake of breath. It felt as if everyone suddenly thought 'Shit! This isn't just a comedy' at the same moment. And then picking it up again to have everyone laughing within a minute. A very impressively-written script.

During the first screening, I can remember an incredible amount of tension when Fessal is about to explode.  That was edge-of-the-seat stuff for me, you knew it was coming, you just didn't know when or how. 

Morris homaged Cook during the first Q+A, by the way.  Perhaps someone can remind me here, my memory needs a little prompt in general due to all the travelling and new faces.  I think Riz was talking about the amount of research that went into Four Lions, and he said something like "it was just research, research, research"  and Morris said something like "yes, research research research, the three R's!"

[sirhenry]

There's this small part of me, though, that wonders if Omar ran in there because Fessal had suggested it, and Omar wanted to honour him in a way.

That was certainly my feeling, though I'm not sure about honouring Fessal. It felt to me as if Omar, on realising that everything had gone wrong, lost any idea of a meaningful/politically powerful death and just went with the Boots idea as the only one left (made more pathetic by it not even being Boots).

The more I think of the film the more impressed I am with the acting - the speed with which we sympathised with the main characters despite their aims and stupidity was mainly down to the actors. And the hospital scene was perfectly underplayed, and left me with the feeling that there could have been an entire film/play written about Omar's family relationships.

[Neil]

The more I think of the film the more impressed I am with the acting - the speed with which we sympathised with the main characters despite their aims and stupidity was mainly down to the actors. And the hospital scene was perfectly underplayed, and left me with the feeling that there could have been an entire film/play written about Omar's family relationships.

Absolutely in agreement, the casting here was much, much better than in Nathan Barley.  Barley was massively hamstrung by the lack of talent - how did someone like Spencer Brown, for instance, even get through the door? 

Bain and Armstrong's strength and experience with character comedy obviously really helped too.  I'm intrigued to know what Simon Blackwell's input was, as I don't recall him being mentioned during either of the Q+A's.

[amputeeporn]

It's so good.

I noticed a Muslim friend of mine posted the trailer on facebook in an affectionate way, and everyone who commented on it did so either positively or thoughtfully. It's a film and story that was dying to be made, I'm just glad it has been, and even more so that Morris is behind it.

There's no reason it shouldn't be massive, and it would be so heartening not to see an 'outcry' response to compare with the Stewart Lee Christian thing.

With this, SL's Comedy Vehicle, In The Loop and TTOI - are we seeing a British comedy fightback? Hope Morris doesn't dissapear again for years now.

[vrailaine]

With this, SL's Comedy Vehicle, In The Loop and TTOI - are we seeing a British comedy fightback?

I'd like to see some younger faces added to the mix.

[amputeeporn]

I'd like to see some younger faces added to the mix.

It's a fair point. Those are our best who've taken a bit of a breather and come back strong. Is comedy any like the current music industry? Unless you get an instant hit or some notoriety, you're dropped and there is no development. Arrive fully formed (or substandard) or not at all.

It's a concern I have more and more lately, that people (and performers) are expected to show up at the door of whatever it is they do on their first day as experts in it. It's an internet logic of being-able-to-google-things applied to almost all parts of life, which is silly.

[vrailaine]

I dunno... at the moment, it's kinda leading to younger people at comedy type things trying to be pretty generic, or at least the ones who are succeeding cos it's easier to be a fully formed product when they're doing something unadventurous or whatever.

I think this is just people adjusting to the new environment of the internet world and all, hopefully over the next ten years it'll sort itself out.

[CollaterlySisters]

Are they any Muslims on this board who were there? I'm interested in that perspective.

I'm not, but there were a couple of representatives from a Muslim group speaking to Mr Morris before me (they introduced themselves to him as such) & they were congratulating him & shaking hands, they seemed very pleased with the film, & also the prayer room (he asked them if it had been set up properly).

[ApexJazz]

It was a pleasure meeting the CookdandBombers in Bradford, I wish I could have met all that attended. For those who haven't seen Four Lions yet, proceed no further (don't watch the trailers either).
I'll be very surprised if there's a better comedy film this year. Fast paced and gripping with wonderfully drawn characters, the two hours fly past in a blink of the eye. This movie reminds us that Chris Morris is one of the most exciting British talents working in any medium today, whatever frustrations at how torpid his output.
The scenes in Pakistan could be a movie unto itself (when was the last good comedy in a war zone? aside from The Hurt Locker) Between the back biting, pettiness, power plays, and explosions, Four Lions tantalizingly skims the surface of many issues: The secularization of those who oppose secularization, the large cultural abyss between western and eastern Muslims, police forces being just as blundering as the terrorists, etc. The film sidesteps addressing the religious basis of the cell's jihad by portraying them not being seriously religious. In fact, it interestingly shows the devotional contrast between Omar and his scholar brother. Omar is ironically the more modern of the two. By far, the most unsettling element of the movie, far above the random acts of violence, is Omar's wife. Shown to be intelligent, a hospital worker, impatient with exclusionary treatment of women, and yet steadfast in support of her husband's jihad. Morris had the intelligence not to dwell on her, she lingers in the air of Omar's final scenes. Morris retains a powerful ambiguity, you want to understand her and her story more. I left the movie haunted by her character and what she represents.
But the film doesn't carry a 'heaviness'. It is unambiguously a comedy. There's scene after scene of classic double-act comedy, old-fashioned in the best sense. The humour is so loose and plentiful, with splendid moments of physical comedy (was there ever a comedy as stiff as Nathan Barley?), and Thick Of It-like florid insults. But unlike The Thick Of It, the characters are never at the mercy of the lines. Morris' direction and editing is superb, lots of visual flair but none of the self conscious gimmickry of previous work. Here the style serves the actors, and what actors!
The movie's triumph is the casting. Their interactions are wildly funny, so engaging and human that it made it all the more shocking when the film coldly disposes of them. The actors are mostly new faces to me, and all the more exciting for it. Riz Ahmed as Omar was perfect. The conflict in his eyes, the desperation when getting in over his head, his exasperation playing straight-man to the most interesting Idiots in recent cinema, Riz added a natural poignancy. The film would have lost its center of gravity with a leading actor of lesser presence. For the first half of the movie, Nigel Lindsay eats up the screen. Arsher Ali as the young weekend militant, uncertain about his destiny in life was excellent. Adeel Akhtar's gentle bumbler hanging around the edges of the action was lovable. Kayvan Novak's performance was hilarious as Omar's brother, the eager follower with a juvenile enthusiasm for jihad. This character had the risk of degenerating into a simpleton stereotype, but saved by his nicely characterized confusions.
It was a gracious gesture to hold the premiere in Bradford at the media museum (home to the world's shortest red carpet). The Q&A was not deeply illuminating, but was absorbing because of how interesting Chris Morris himself is. He has the look and manner of a middle-class sovversivo, but with a rare intellect to back it up.  The unusualness of his thought process and how he articulates things would fascinate any audience, but Kayvan Novak almost stole the evening with his German actor riff. The producers were justifiably proud of their involvement with this picture, the actors didn't look so sure.
The audience couldn't have been more enthusiastic. Like Weekender, I'm a miserable bastard: my section of the auditorium were a little too eager to laugh it up. The correct attitude no doubt, but I missed snatches of dialogue and lines. Also I hate other people's enjoyment.
A movie that makes you laugh is more memorable than fifty worthy dramas about the struggles of being Muslim in Britain. I hope Four Lions will be a huge breakthrough for British-Asian talent. The press reaction to the movie is predictable. The more fake controversy they can generate, the better for the film's success. Be very curious to read reactions from the British-Asian communities. Muslims shouldn't find offense from the movie, but that doesn't mean they won't.
This wouldn't be Cookdandbombd unless we discuss some of the movie's flaws. Julia Davis' cartoon jarred, as if she walked in from another movie. Still troubling is the inconsistency of Nigel Lindsay's character (who couldn't have been better as the Anglo-Muslim militant, with all the passion of the converted)after the cell's power shift to Omar. He's such a strong actor that it isn't completely convincing when he goes from being sharp-as-a-tack to thick-as-a-kaaba-stone. My last complaint is the 3D glasses didn't seem to work.

[Danger Man]

Be very curious to read reactions from the British-Asian communities.

As a child of somebody who came to the UK in the 1960's as part of the great wave of Asian immigration I'm not sure I can pretend to be 'British-Asian' but my wife did comment that there were a couple of times during the movie where I was laughing at lines that nobody else seemed to be laughing at. So I suppose I could say that CM certainly did his research.

The scenes with the wife and child were very well done but I'd have been interested to see what the 'four lions' parents thought about their children. I suppose the 'pious brother' covered that area to a degree, but there could have been some mileage in trying to explain why some third-generation immigrants have not only failed to settle in their adopted homeland but have reacted so violently against it in a manner which their parents and grandparents could never have dreamed of.

But that's just nit-picking on my part. The more I think about it this is a very good movie, albeit a very conventional one.

[JPA]

'We know a lot more than you think' *holds up Weetabix*

Some interesting points Apex. I too wasn't all that keen on Davies' appearance and thought it felt a little out of place.

With regards to Barry, isn't he just one of those classic comedy characters who appear or like to think of themselves as intelligent when surrounded by idiots, but in fact are also stupid without being aware of it?

[koeman]

My favourite line was one of Barry's:

I'm the secret Jihadi. They seek him here, they seek him there, but he's not there, he's in a club blowing up your slag sister.

made me laugh like a drain.

[dfurnell]

'We know a lot more than you think' *holds up Weetabix*

On second viewing the Weetabix line I found one of the funniest and oddly most sinister parts of the film.

That and the line about Fathers 4 Justice linking up with the Real IRA. I think I was the only person who laughed at that in Nottingham! Maybe most of the students in the audience thought it should be forbidden to laugh at the IRA..... just in case.