American Fiction (2023)

[Pink Gregory]

can anyone tell me about this?  Just came up on my Facebook feed, mainly interested because I absolutely fell in love with Jeffrey Wright in the French Dispatch and Asteroid City, would like to see more

[Blinder Data]

what i can tell you is that it is quite good. i laughed a bit. certainly the best jeffrey wright performance i've seen. the whole cast was great - the family scenes were my favourite.

it was pleasingly old-school, nicely paced, good characterisation. i was not a fan of the

Spoiler alert

ending(s), which felt like it was having its cake and eating it. it reminded me of 'i may destroy you' - don't show me a multitude of meta endings, just bloody pick one! end the film properly!

[close]

it could've been funnier, meaner and neater. otherwise i would say it's a solid 7/10 film.

[surreal]

Goddam my timing:  https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=105428.0

BarryAdmin can we get these merged please?

[surreal]

What I said in the other thread:

I enjoyed it a lot, despite it being very American-issues-centric.  Actually great performances across the board, not just Jeffrey Wright, a terrific cast. 

I was surprised that the main focus of the trailer for once was not the main thrust of the movie,

Spoiler alert

it is very much a family drama with the book stuff only being scattered throughout the film.  I think this is possibly the point though - that the book is what white people think black people's lives are like while being shown what is actually a very ordinary and common lived experience for almost everyone.

[close]

Very funny at times, well written but with a very odd and probably divisive last 10 minutes to wrap up.

I was surprised that Issa Rae got the "with" credit, when she was hardly in it and the other women in it were FAR more deserving.  Have I missed her being the current big thing?

8.9/10 (-0.1 for the odd ending)

Recommended.

[Sebastian Cobb]

what i can tell you is that it is quite good. i laughed a bit. certainly the best jeffrey wright performance i've seen. the whole cast was great - the family scenes were my favourite.

it was pleasingly old-school, nicely paced, good characterisation. i was not a fan of the

Spoiler alert

ending(s), which felt like it was having its cake and eating it. it reminded me of 'i may destroy you' - don't show me a multitude of meta endings, just bloody pick one! end the film properly!

[close]

it could've been funnier, meaner and neater. otherwise i would say it's a solid 7/10 film.

Agree with this.

[Mobius]

ah cool i've just seen this is now "available"

looking forward to checking it out

[Small Man Big Horse]

I've not seen this but I'm really looking forward to doing so over the weekend, if only because I really enjoyed Percival Everett's novel I Am Not Sidney Poitier.

[lipsink]

I enjoyed this and half of it is the film that it was advertised as. The other half is

Spoiler alert

an incredibly sad and sometimes bleak portrait of a family in free fall and of a self loathing man who pushes everyone away.

[close]

Forgive my ignorance of novels by black writers but I'd assumed that we'd had a lot more complicated and nuanced black representation at least in film and TV in the last few years (that doesn't fall into your typical drugs and gangster stuff): Moonlight, I May Destroy You, If Beale Street Could Talk, Sorry To Bother You, Hidden Figures, Get Out?

[Mister Six]

The novel it's based on came out in 2001, so maybe that part hasn't aged so well.

Although even with the more recent strides cinema has taken, I've seen complaints that there are still a lot of white gatekeepers holding the money bags, and so there's pressure to pitch a certain concept of "black film" - of all the stuff you've mentioned, I think I May Destroy You is the only one that isn't centrally about race and the oppression of black people? And that's British.

Likewise last year's lovely UK film Rye Lane, which is a black romcom where the characters' race informs their environment and lives, but there's no part of it that's about racism or social oppression or the kind of thing that's central to so many black American films.

So maybe now there's less hunger for stuff about "da streetz" and that kind of thing, but - ironically, as evinced by American Fiction itself - black American creators are still being funneled by white-controlled media pressures towards pitching a certain kind of "black film", one that has to in some way address inequalities of race in American society.

Maybe I'm just misinformed or ill-informed, but it's hard to imagine the US mainstream system making much room for black-created, black-starring movies like Rye Lane (OK, it had a white co-writer) that just show black people living their lives in situations that don't intersect with direct opppression.

Jordan Peele's managed to put out a couple of films that steer away from that (Us being about the class divide and Nope about wild animals in entertainment) but Get Out bought him a lot of goodwill and confidence, and you'll still see Americans applying a racial interpretation to the films.

I guess there's Tyler Perry, but he's basically his own industry at this point.

[Herbert Ashe]

I was initially a bit irked by the multiple endings as a bit of have cake and eat it moment, but the novel had that in the sense that fuck is included as part of the narrative so I'm inclined to take it as a nod to the compromises of having your book adapted as a film or something.

Anyway decent film, funny, can even forgive it for being yet another fucking example of the American THING title format. (no other country does this anywhere near as much, right?)

[Sebastian Cobb]

The novel it's based on came out in 2001, so maybe that part hasn't aged so well.

Although even with the more recent strides cinema has taken, I've seen complaints that there are still a lot of white gatekeepers holding the money bags, and so there's pressure to pitch a certain concept of "black film" - of all the stuff you've mentioned, I think I May Destroy You is the only one that isn't centrally about race and the oppression of black people? And that's British.

Likewise last year's lovely UK film Rye Lane, which is a black romcom where the characters' race informs their environment and lives, but there's no part of it that's about racism or social oppression or the kind of thing that's central to so many black American films.

So maybe now there's less hunger for stuff about "da streetz" and that kind of thing, but - ironically, as evinced by American Fiction itself - black American creators are still being funneled by white-controlled media pressures towards pitching a certain kind of "black film", one that has to in some way address inequalities of race in American society.

Maybe I'm just misinformed or ill-informed, but it's hard to imagine the US mainstream system making much room for black-created, black-starring movies like Rye Lane (OK, it had a white co-writer) that just show black people living their lives in situations that don't intersect with direct opppression.

Jordan Peele's managed to put out a couple of films that steer away from that (Us being about the class divide and Nope about wild animals in entertainment) but Get Out bought him a lot of goodwill and confidence, and you'll still see Americans applying a racial interpretation to the films.

I guess there's Tyler Perry, but he's basically his own industry at this point.

One that sort of springs to mind is the 70's film Claudine which is kind of a love story. There's some social commentary, the fact these people are poor is because they're black to some extent, and one of Claudine's kids is a militant spelling it out in places, but it feels like a film that was made for a wide audience without really caring how white libs feel about it

[Mister Six]

Although even with the more recent strides cinema has taken, I've seen complaints that there are still a lot of white gatekeepers holding the money bags, and so there's pressure to pitch a certain concept of "black film"

Just to clarify, I mean "a certain type of 'black film' that white people recognise as 'black' and are happy to support".

I'll wager there are a fair few black creators out there who just want to make the next Star Wars or Fast the Furious or whatever, but are stymied by white producers saying, "Why don't you pitch us a black film?"

[Small Man Big Horse]

I really loved this, I thought Wright was superb, the family aspect was really beautifully written and the book part was fascinating. 9/10

[13 schoolyards]

I enjoyed this and half of it is the film that it was advertised as. The other half is

Spoiler alert

an incredibly sad and sometimes bleak portrait of a family in free fall and of a self loathing man who pushes everyone away.

[close]

It's interesting how how half the movie's a funny takedown of creatives being forced by economic and social pressures into pandering to a marketing category & the other half is spoilered above - so all the marketing for this only focuses on the first side of the film just in case you missed the point about how commercial art is still being funneled into easy marketing niches

[Mobius]

I thought this was quite brilliant to be honest, some funny bits and the family/emotional bits were really well done. I enjoyed the ending and the "meta" commentary of the movie. A really good film

[flotemysost]

Saw this earlier; I'm not unfamiliar with the staggering whiteness and deeply ingrained classism of the publishing industry (albeit in the UK, but there's def parallels) and the frequent shortcomings of self-congratulatory diversity schemes, so I figured a cynical skewering of all that might be interesting.

However like surreal I was surprised (not in a bad way!) that the heart of it is actually

Spoiler alert

a family drama, with some genuinely touching moments

[close]

; I'm just not sure if the two stylistic "personalities" married together all that well for me.

Spoiler alert

But maybe that's the point ahhhh

[close]

Agree re: the "old school" feel - there were several scenes where the dialogue sounded borderline clunky to me and the "satire" a bit on-the-nose obvious, but then maybe I've just got used to a more naturalistic style; the quickfire wisecracking definitely felt very 90s/early 00s. (I did enjoy

Spoiler alert

the bleeding-heart judging panel declaring that Black voices need to be listened to, after steamrollering over the opinions of the two Black people in the room - not exactly subtle, but this kinda shit 100% happens IRL)

[close]

And likewise found the ending a bit of a smart-arsed cop-out. Still enjoyed it though; thought Jeffrey Wright's hangdog eye-rolling was perfectly pitched and the rest of the cast were great too, I was gutted that

Spoiler alert

Tracee Ellis Ross' character was killed off so abruptly

[close]

[El Unicornio, mang]

I enjoyed this although agree that at times it was very on the nose. But it was one of those films where the character interaction was the main draw and that was excellent throughout. Don't think I've seen Wright give a bad performance.

Weirdly the thing it reminded me the most of was Nathan Barley, Jeffrey Wright being like NB's Dan character who can't believe the idiots around him who lap up vacuous trendy rubbish, but ends up being sucked into it himself.

[convulsivespace]

I heard the director Cord Jefferson interviewed on Roger Deakins' podcast and it made me excited to see this. He explains his affinity for the novel based on his own experiences in the journalism industry, and I was also rooting for him as an inexperienced director launched into adapting and directing something he felt so strongly about

Unfortunately the movie itself fell flat for me. Like others, I didn't realize it was mostly going to be a family drama rather than a pointed satire. Excellent performances all around, but the family stuff just wasn't very interesting or well executed imo. There were even a few scenes that gave me Project Greenlight amateurish vibes, albeit with great actors.

I liked the publishing industry stuff, but there wasn't enough of it and with what was there it almost felt like they were pulling their punches. Maybe it was just introducing ambiguity, but the later scenes with Issa Rae stuck me as watering down the point. I just wish it had been an angrier (and funnier) movie taking aim at the entire concept of race, which is what I was expecting.

Absolutely loved the ending though with the meta pullback. That and the scene with Keith David were my favourite parts. It ended on a high note and made me want to rewatch the movie at some point. My understanding is that the novel has an experimental style and I think exploring that more throughout the movie would have worked better.

[Armin Meiwes]

Can't believe the positive response this film got tbh, I thought it was incredibly corny and contrived.

[Mister Six]

I thought this was about 95% really good but the 5% at the end was so bad that it completely shat the bed and tainted the preceding film.

Spoiler alert

First off, I didn't like the meta aspect with the multiple endings. It felt incongruent, like a sudden swerve into a completely different kind of storytelling to what we'd had up to that point, and also like Cord Jefferson couldn't really decide what the ending should be so copped out and threw them all in. I felt the same way about a very different film from this year, Orion and the Dark, where Charlie Kaufmann's meta flourish seemed like an excuse for rote plotting rather than something integral to the meaning and purpose of the film.

[close]

But the bigger thing was

Spoiler alert

just how badly it copped out when Jeffrey Wright met Issa Rae at the book panel. He's right! She's a privileged woman exploiting the stories of actual poor black people for her own financial gain because she knows that white editors and white audiences lap it up. She's knowingly promoting and exploiting black stereotypes, and harming perceptions of black people in America!

And I wouldn't have a problem with it if that were it - she just thinks he's moaning about nothing, or she knows what she's doing but she doesn't care. But then they have to make it sound like she won, so she drops a shitty little Twitter one-liner about internalised antiblackness on him (something that's not really shown to be part of his character outside of him having predominantly dated white women) and the scene ends as though she's actually refuted his claims.

If anything, the popularity of Fuck ought to rattle her, because it shows that her audience is a bunch of credulous idiots who'll lap up anything. It doesn't matter that she meticulously researches her books: it all feeds the same monster.

But the film doesn't seem willing to go that far. And I don't know what the motivation behind that is, except possibly just cowardice. Easier to get that Oscar if you don't make anyone feel uncomfortable. And people won't feel uncomfortable if you direct all the criticism at the white cartoon characters and the suddenly "self-hating black man" protagonist.

[close]

However like surreal I was surprised (not in a bad way!) that the heart of it is actually

Spoiler alert

a family drama, with some genuinely touching moments

[close]

; I'm just not sure if the two stylistic "personalities" married together all that well for me.

Yeah, that didn't quite work for me either, although it was less of a dealbreaker than the stuff above.

Spoiler alert

The satirical side felt like it was taking place in a bigger, sitcommier universe to the family drama side of things (where the world was populated by actual people), and that they barely crossed over with one another added to that. Felt like two very good, but different films chop-shopped together.

[close]

[EOLAN]

Enjoyed it. Maybe one of the few that didn't mind the nature of how the film ended at all. Enjoyed the satirical absurdity of certain aspects of it.

[flotemysost]

But the bigger thing was

Spoiler alert

just how badly it copped out when Jeffrey Wright met Issa Rae at the book panel. He's right! She's a privileged woman exploiting the stories of actual poor black people for her own financial gain because she knows that white editors and white audiences lap it up. She's knowingly promoting and exploiting black stereotypes, and harming perceptions of black people in America!

And I wouldn't have a problem with it if that were it - she just thinks he's moaning about nothing, or she knows what she's doing but she doesn't care. But then they have to make it sound like she won, so she drops a shitty little Twitter one-liner about internalised antiblackness on him (something that's not really shown to be part of his character outside of him having predominantly dated white women) and the scene ends as though she's actually refuted his claims.

If anything, the popularity of Fuck ought to rattle her, because it shows that her audience is a bunch of credulous idiots who'll lap up anything. It doesn't matter that she meticulously researches her books: it all feeds the same monster.

But the film doesn't seem willing to go that far. And I don't know what the motivation behind that is, except possibly just cowardice. Easier to get that Oscar if you don't make anyone feel uncomfortable. And people won't feel uncomfortable if you direct all the criticism at the white cartoon characters and the suddenly "self-hating black man" protagonist.

[close]

Yeah, there did seem to be a bit of a turnaround in that

Spoiler alert

you're initially sort of invited to ridicule her blatant cashing-in on a fabricated, commercially appealing Black narrative,

[close]

but then later on it kinda seemed like

Spoiler alert

the two authors are unwittingly united, by dint of being the minority in a overwhelmingly white environment/industry which has decided it knows what's best for championing Black voices.

[close]

Have definitely heard quite a few people's experiences of the latter type scenario playing out IRL, so it's possible this was deliberate, I guess; but agree it felt like the initial strength of the message got watered down (or at least muddled) throughout.

[dissolute ocelot]

I enjoyed it a lot, it was far funnier than I expected (I have very low expectations for that sort of acclaimed film).

It is maybe slightly dated - Push by Sapphire was 1996. And it does slightly pull its punches with Sintara Golden's novel - there seemed several ways that could go but it never really proved how sincere or cynical she was.

But I also liked the way Monk doesn't seem entirely aware of the racism he faces as he insists race doesn't interest him, which maybe explains why he can't wrap everything up neatly.

So full of rich characters and detail. I loved things like the caricatures of the other writers on the judging panel. And the family was great.

Also, now free on Amazon Prime if you have no morals or principles.

[thugler]

I enjoyed it a lot, it was far funnier than I expected (I have very low expectations for that sort of acclaimed film).

It is maybe slightly dated - Push by Sapphire was 1996. And it does slightly pull its punches with Sintara Golden's novel - there seemed several ways that could go but it never really proved how sincere or cynical she was.

But I also liked the way Monk doesn't seem entirely aware of the racism he faces as he insists race doesn't interest him, which maybe explains why he can't wrap everything up neatly.

So full of rich characters and detail. I loved things like the caricatures of the other writers on the judging panel. And the family was great.

Also, now free on Amazon Prime if you have no morals or principles.

Saw this tonight in a small cinema. Really enjoyed it. Knew absolutely nothing about it and hadn't even really heard of it before.

I thought the pulling of the punches when it came to the Sintara Golden novel was an attempt to point out that Monk wasn't quite correct to write it off as an entirely cynical piece of work, even if it was written to appeal to a certain audience. For a start he didn't actually read it before forming his opinion. Like you said about him not being entirely aware of the racism he faces, he's just not right about everything like he's made out to be earlier on in the film, starting with him falling out with his girlfriend he's shown to be a flawed and damaged person, even if he is making a good point with his fake novel.

[Ferris]

Stay away from me-eee