Doctor Who - Series 14, part 2: RTD's time has come (again)

[Jerzy Bondov]

Having trudged through God knows how many prestige BBC dramas, I disagree. Tonight's episode didn't subscribe to that grammar, it looked quite like Moffat era Doctor Who. Which isn't a step backwards, as I happen to think Doctor Who's cinematography was at its richest in those days.

I agree, it was written and acted 100% in the RTD1 mould but you could tell Talalay was back. I will say I didn't like the trial scene though

[Endicott]

TARDIS interior opinion -

Spoiler alert

it's Matt Smith's but with less than half the charm and all the eccentricity removed

[close]

Surely it's an obvious and more direct reference to the original Tardis interior?

I quite enjoyed Tennant running around it, enjoying the reference in character.

[Cerys]

Sixteen-year-old offspring threw phone across the room in response to how Rose's gender identity was presented.  I can't say I blame him.

[Jack Shaftoe]

How was it done? I couldn't get more than a minute into it, sadly, something about RTD's writing never sits well with me.

[Toki]

Surely it's an obvious and more direct reference to the original Tardis interior?

I quite enjoyed Tennant running around it, enjoying the reference in character.

I enjoyed Tenant throughout, I just found the interior too bare for its size I guess. I get the retro-ness of it, I just don't think it's enough for me. Maybe it'll be coffee stained for the rest of the run.

[Two Headed Sex Beast]

That was stupid and fun and had a lot of heart, I really enjoyed it. I'm mainly a Moffat era fan so it's not that I have any particular RTD nostalgia, I just had a good time. The gender stuff was a little heavy handed in parts but I think that's ok, maybe it needs to be said loud and clear. And it is a kids' show after all. It's nice to think some young person could be feeling a little better about themselves after seeing that tonight.

By contrast, I saw The Woman Who Fell to Earth in the cinema back when it premiered (I'm outside the UK) and I left it feeling absolutely dejected. But this episode put a smile on my face and made me feel like Doccy Who is BACK

[gotmilk]

Sixteen-year-old offspring threw phone across the room in response to how Rose's gender identity was presented.  I can't say I blame him.

It was embarrassing. And the explanation of how Donna was able to survive because she and her daughter are women and can therefore let things go was somehow even worse. Felt like one of those desperate attempts by Moffat to appear progressive after being criticised as sexist - lines like "Stop thinking, you're a man, it looks weird" and "Thank god I'm not male, so much ego!" Just weird and unfunny. They can both write good female characters, why not simply rely on that rather than employ all these forced and heavy-handed quips?

[Two Headed Sex Beast]

I enjoyed Tenant throughout, I just found the interior too bare for its size I guess. I get the retro-ness of it, I just don't think it's enough for me. Maybe it'll be coffee stained for the rest of the run.

I do like a TARDIS that feels more like a home than a spaceship. Capaldi's was perfect with homey touches like the bookcases. But this one was ok, I like the bigger scale and the retro feeling.

[Cerys]

How was it done? I couldn't get more than a minute into it, sadly, something about RTD's writing never sits well with me.

Deadnamed within minutes of first appearing, then okay representation of Donna and Sylvia 'dealing' with having a transwoman in the family - but then using that same transwoman's 'non-binary' state as a deus ex machina.  Not impressed.

[Midas]

I found the implication she was trans as a consequence of the meta-crisis really strange and unnecessary

[Jack Shaftoe]

Deadnamed within minutes of first appearing, then okay representation of Donna and Sylvia 'dealing' with having a transwoman in the family - but then using that same transwoman's 'non-binary' state as a deus ex machina.  Not impressed.

Ohhhh, okay, cheers. Yeah, sounds like good intentions but a bit othering, which is kind of what I'd expected.

[Blinder Data]

that was RTD all over. big silly fun that did what it needed to do. after the chibnall era it's enough for now to know that doctor who is at least entertaining

cons:
- some dodgy as fuck CGI (e.g. when the lady in the wheelchair blew up the wall)
- Rose's performance :( didn't quite have the chops for it
- the explanation at the end needed loads more set-up and hints at the start. felt totally rushed
- handwavey explanation of simply letting go of doctor-donna when that's been driving the whole plot is RTD at his worst
- some of the jokes and dialogue didn't quite land

I quite liked the new TARDIS interior. it's not cosy or dusty as would be my preference, but it's fucking massive and looks the part

(was is it just me who saw the fingers flicking switches during the climax and thought ncuti would make an appearance? disappointed I was wrong)

looking forward to next week's doctor who! what a rare feeling :)

Sixteen-year-old offspring threw phone across the room in response to how Rose's gender identity was presented.  I can't say I blame him.

out of excitement? anger? would be interesting to hear his thoughts

[Cerys]

Extreme annoyance.  He feels that RTD didn't write Rose as a realistic trans character at all.

[Ambient Sheep]

Right, so as I said earlier:

I loved it!  The magic is back!!

I think one major telling-point for me is that I was riveted throughout.  Didn't even glance at my phone or tablet, I couldn't take my eyes off the screen.  It's been a long time since Doctor Who did that to me, hell it's vanishingly rare that anything grabs my internet-ruined attention span for that long these days. The hour just flew by – only looked at the clock once, and was astonished to see that 45 minutes had already passed.

The fact that – loved it or hated it – nobody posted in this thread until five minutes before it finished says a fuck of a lot too.


Pros:

Apart from it being generally brilliant, in particular:

Liked the new title sequence, and the opening theme music was pretty good too, Murray's done a lot worse with it in the past.  Closing theme less so; although it's lovely to have the Middle Eight, the wacky piano bits near the end of the whole thing felt OTT, and although I didn't even hear the Rolf Harris panting on my real telly, it's very distracting on the laptop's iPlayer.

The "Oh, catch up!" to the psychic paper really made me laugh.

The Meep was incredibly well realised.

Loved the new TARDIS!  Must have cost a bomb.  I suppose it could be a little cold, but hopefully the variable lighting will help with that.

Oddly, given the complaints from others in this thread, I had virtually no problem with the sound mix at all this time round, on my bog-standard ten-years-old LG dumb TV's internal speakers.  Doubly weird given how much trouble I used to have back in the day; I was going to mention this specifically even before I read others' comments.  I even quite liked Murray's score... what's wrong with me?!

Lovely to have a behind-the-scenes show back, and it was a great watch!


Cons:

Yeah, the cracks sealing up again, especially including sucking the fire back in again, was silly.  Classic bit of RTD stupidness there, but I'll forgive him that given everything else.

Likewise, some of the technobabble during the ship sabotaging (e.g. "vindicate the cyberline", "shatterfry the positrons") was a wee bit over the top.

I don't understand how Donna knew it was the Doctor's second time round for this face – surely she'd just assume he was still #10?  Likewise she seemed to know that his previous incarnation had been a woman.  How?  I don't buy that it was because she'd become DoctorDonna again; she would still have had to gain the knowledge from somewhere.

I refuse to believe that one cup of coffee into the TARDIS console could do that much damage.

And... well I hesitate to write this, but the "Binary" "Nonbinary" "Male..." "...and female" "And neither. And more." stuff at around 47 minutes in seemed VERY heavy-handed on first Tx.  Watching back on iPlayer, not so much though.  Maybe just me, but I do wonder how many arseholes turned it off at that point, whereas without it they might have been left to gently ponder things.  Then again, I guess the way things were resolved meant it had to be spelt out to some degree.

Also, the picture seems very dark on iPlayer, whereas on my actual TV it was fine.  Maybe that's just my laptop.

Finally, I'm a bit concerned how this Tennant/Tate mini-series might affect Gatwa's turn.  It's been so great, so lovely to have them back, that it feels awful to know we only have two more instalments.  Hopefully he'll make it his own and it'll soon overshadow these three eps.


But the main thing?  After (Time) Lord knows how many years, I'm finally excited to watch next week's...

[Ambient Sheep]

Sixteen-year-old offspring threw phone across the room in response to how Rose's gender identity was presented.  I can't say I blame him.

Extreme annoyance.  He feels that RTD didn't write Rose as a realistic trans character at all.

Am really sorry to hear that. :-(

I found the implication she was trans as a consequence of the meta-crisis really strange and unnecessary

Hmmmm, you might have a point there.  I dunno.

[Bad Ambassador]

It was fine, hamstrung for me by never really taking to Tennant or Tate. The pro-trans stuff was good to hear, but it was very clunkily handled. The production as a whole was strong, though, and I can't single out anything I particularly disliked, apart from the resolution to the metacrisis, which was almost impossible to follow.

Oh, and the new console room is too big and sterile, like the inside of a golf ball. The theme is appalling, the worst they've ever had.

[BritishHobo]

The stuff at the end was definitely heavy-handed. As was the pronoun bit with the Meep; it feels like the recently-female Doctor (with his psychic paper still referring to him as a woman) would be pretty switched on about this stuff. I did love the scene with Sylvia though, because I've loved her so much on the rewatch, and it's really beautiful to see her finally getting it right. Not just in trying her best for Rose, but also in finally coming through for Donna, and supporting her; with food and, more importantly, without criticism.

[Endicott]

I don't understand how Donna knew it was the Doctor's second time round for this face – surely she'd just assume he was still #10?  Likewise she seemed to know that his previous incarnation had been a woman.  How?  I don't buy that it was because she'd become DoctorDonna again; she would still have had to gain the knowledge from somewhere.

I think I wave that away by assuming that 'timelord energy' thing she did included some kind of update.  Bit of a stretch?

[Midas]

What did we think about the magic wand being able to build floating screens and force fields then

[Psybro]

I was just watching Hell Bent the other night and gor blimey he was willing to murder Donna to save London but would fracture the continuum to keep Clara alive?  What a simp.

[Ambient Sheep]

I did love the scene with Sylvia though, because I've loved her so much on the rewatch, and it's really beautiful to see her finally getting it right. Not just in trying her best for Rose, but also in finally coming through for Donna, and supporting her; with food and, more importantly, without criticism.

Yes, this is a great point.

I think I wave that away by assuming that 'timelord energy' thing she did included some kind of update.  Bit of a stretch?

Yeah, I assume that's what we're meant to think, but it's FAR too much of a stretch IMHO.  After all, although we've seen that Time Lords can sense other Time Lords' presence, we've never seen that they get a full historical update on them!

What did we think about the magic wand being able to build floating screens and force fields then

I rather liked it, tbh, but the latter in particular ain't 'alf gonna create some plotholes when he doesn't use it every week!

(Unless of course, he does... or he loses the increasingly-inaccurately-named "sonic", or that bit of it breaks...)

[Catalogue Trousers]

Handwave away the big problem has always been RTD's solution, so fair enough on that point.

Which still doesn't stop it being SHITE.

But: Tennant was pleasantly decent, the new Tardis interior lovely, and Beep? Beep was just fantastic. 7.5/10.

[Catalogue Trousers]

It was just a bit of admittedly rather forced wackiness.

Felt more like a tribute to Tom doing the same in Stones Of Blood.

[gotmilk]

I think I might have enjoyed the Meep more if the turn from cute to evil was handled a bit differently. Maybe instead of a complete personality shift it could have retained the same demeanour but just started doing and saying increasing horrible things. Rather than hiding its true self it could just be a total sociopath, cute on the surface but completely evil underneath. I don't know, think that would have been more darkly comic.

[Rev+]

What did we think about the magic wand being able to build floating screens and force fields then

That really can't last, can it?  Ncuti will give it a shot and be like 'ah, the last sonic was so much better'.

[Catalogue Trousers]

I think I might have enjoyed the Meep more if the turn from cute to evil was handled a bit differently. Maybe instead of a complete personality shift it could have retained the same demeanour but just started doing and saying increasing horrible things. Rather than hiding its true self it could just be a total sociopath, cute on the surface but completely evil underneath. I don't know, think that would have been more darkly comic.

In other words, pretty much how Beep was handled in the original comic strip.

[Alberon]

Finally got to see it as I've been out today.

It's obviously set out like RTD's first episode in that the threat is secondary to the companion's story. The Meep had more to do than the Nestene Consciousness did back in 'Rose' though. The costume, CGI and voice for the Meep was very good.

The new Rose though did fall a bit flat in places which was a real shame. Made the bit at the end where Donna bemoans her daughter's lack of acting ability a bit awkward. The trans representation by RTD wasn't well handled. The revelations at the end were... well... shit. The mocking of the male Doctor for not working out how to solve the metacrisis problem veered into sexist anti-male territory and I was surprised RTD was responsible for that.

Can't help but note that Rose is a toymaker.

The character development of Donna's mother was great to see, especially having seen where she was in series 4 recently on the rewatch thread.

David Tennant acts like he never left and is effortlessly the Doctor right from the start. The sonic screwdriver's new ability seems a bit dangerous from a storytelling perspective, though the defensive screens seem to take a while to draw which should stop them from being too much of a Deus ex Machina week after week.

The new TARDIS harks back to the classic original, and it is a bit bare. There are mentions of a jukebox being in Gatwa's version so it sounds like it won't stay empty for long. I do like it though.

So RTD starts in the right place with a fun, action packed romp. Next week seems to have him showing another side of Doctor Who.

[JesusAndYourBush]

Deadnamed within minutes of first appearing, then okay representation of Donna and Sylvia 'dealing' with having a transwoman in the family - but then using that same transwoman's 'non-binary' state as a deus ex machina.  Not impressed.

I must have not noticed that. I had no idea she was trans until the clunky scene near the end.  Maybe it'd been mentioned beforehand (in threads and pre-season leakage) but I'd not read anything whatsoever about the new episodes.  If anything it probably made the scene even more clunky than if I'd read all the spoilery pre-series discussion.

That vile Rolf Harris panting over the end music was disgusting.

And they really didn't want us to hear it did they? First one voiceover, then a second one, just let me hear the theme ffs... on second thoughts maybe the voiceover was the right choice.


And did the Tardis console look simpler, more like the one from Classic Who or was that just wishful thinking?

And am I the only one who'd love an "Am I bovvered Doctor?" sketch for Comic Relief?

[Catalogue Trousers]

And am I the only one who'd love an "Am I bovvered Doctor?" sketch for Comic Relief?

Yes. Yes, you are.

[Ambient Sheep]

I must have not noticed that. I had no idea she was trans until the clunky scene near the end.  Maybe it'd been mentioned beforehand (in threads and pre-season leakage)...

It was mentioned a few months ago that they'd cast a trans person in a trans role, but I must admit I'd forgotten all about it until it was spelt out in tonight's episode.

Just checked on iPlayer, you'll want to rewatch

08:36 to 08:54 and
09:30 to 10:45 (10:03 to 10:21 in particular).

And they really didn't want us to hear it did they? First one voiceover, then a second one, just let me hear the theme ffs...

Yeah, that was annoying, especially the second voiceover.

Come to think of it, that's probably why I couldn't hear Rolf Harris huffing and puffing away in the background on my TV, only when I replayed it on iPlayer on my laptop.

And did the Tardis console look simpler, more like the one from Classic Who or was that just wishful thinking?

No, I felt that too.

And am I the only one who'd love an "Am I bovvered Doctor?" sketch for Comic Relief?

Yes. Yes, you are.

Oh I dunno.  I really enjoyed it last time round, but not sure it would bear a repeat.