Football Thread 23-24: Part 3: End of an Era - Auf Wiedersehen, Jürgen

[Senior Baiano]

he winds up getting blamed for England getting knocked out (see also Beckham, Phil Neville, Rooney/Ronaldo

Didn't the ones highlighted go from strength to strength after that and Man Utd win everything in sight? Sounds like it's just what the doctor ordered for both Mainoo and Manyoo

[The Culture Bunker]

Didn't the ones highlighted go from strength to strength after that and Man Utd win everything in sight? Sounds like it's just what the doctor ordered for both Mainoo and Manyoo

I think Ferguson being manager helped them a lot (alongside the team itself being successful). They knew he had their backs and he'd do anything possible to deflect the media. Right now, every day it's a different name being linked with replacing Ten Hag. It's such a mess that it's a lot easier for a player to be isolated. Add in the social media aspect too - though Beckham did have to deal with an effigy of him hanging from a lamppost, which was a bit much to say the least. 

[Inspector Norse]

Let's have a look at how some of the other contenders got on while Southgate's England were being SHIT WOKE AND USELESS shall we?

Spain lost at home to Colombia on Friday, then drew at home with Brazil. They conceded a goal after a goalkeeping howler.

Germany managed to beat the Netherlands 2-1 but not before conceding a goal after a defensive howler.

Portugal thrashed Sweden (who are crap at the moment) but then lost 2-0 at Slovenia, a team who in their last game were held by Andorra.

France got beat 2-0 at home by Germany on Saturday, conceding after 7 seconds. They did a bit better last night and held out until the 6th minute against Chile, eventually managing to win 3-2.

Belgium got a fortunate draw against England last night, having in their previous friendly been held by the Republic of Ireland, a team who have not won a game or even scored a goal since 2013.

Italy managed to win both their friendlies, against Venezuela and Ecuador, but they lost twice to England in the qualifying so must, by the usual logic, be absolute rubbish.

Croatia drew 0-0 with Tunisia then, for some reason, won it on a penalty shoot-out like they were all 10 years old and wanted to do pens after the game.

I think the main thing coming out of these friendlies is there is really no need, as if there were before, for Henderson to be anywhere near the squad any more.

I understand that Southgate likes having him there for his experience and influence and leadership. In which case just make him a coach and have done with it.

[Senior Baiano]

In summary, football is a land of contrasts

[BlodwynPig]

Hang on Ireland beat Gibraltar twice recently with a +7 goal difference

[phantom_power]

Ten Hag has been careful about managing his minutes, and it helps we're pretty much on a game a week due to being out of Europe early doors. I can believe Southgate would have subbed him earlier yesterday, but too many other players were being wasteful on the ball.

But still, ideally from my perspective he would have spent the Summer resting up and preparing for his first full season. As it is, now there's the risk something happens and he winds up getting blamed for England getting knocked out (see also Beckham, Phil Neville, Rooney/Ronaldo and Sancho/Rashford). All the hype that's now building up around him - it's the club who has to protect him, not England, as well as hope he's got the mentality to handle it.

I think this England squad seem a lot more friendly and supportive than ones of the past. I can believe if one of them fucks up then the rest will rally round them and make sure they don't suffer too much.

I think as much as, as a United fan, I want him to rest in the summer his ability is too undeniable for that to happen. He has an extraordinary ability to have several opposition players around him and still come out with the ball or make a good pass. He is very press-resistant and calm on the ball, which is a godsend given how panicked England can get. For a player so young he seems to always make the right choice, which is often the simple ball. Lots of young players breaking into a team or at international level feel the need to run around a lot, play killer balls and generally prove they are good enough. Mainoo, and Bellingham as well before him, seem to be happy to do what is needed and let the quality show through. It is pretty crazy that he is about four months into his first-team career and has already picked up a man of the match award for England

[Theoretical Dentist]

Croatia drew 0-0 with Tunisia then, for some reason, won it on a penalty shoot-out like they were all 10 years old and wanted to do pens after the game.

The shootout was because it wasn't a standalone friendly, it was part of a new competition called the FIFA Series which I mentioned earlier in the thread. Actually it's more complicated than that because most of the FIFA Series games didn't have shootouts even if they were drawn. Most of the four-team groups had a league format (albeit with each team only playing two of the three others in its group), but the group with Croatia and Tunisia was a four-team knockout cup, their match was one of the first-round matches (ie semi-finals), so they needed penalties to decide who would go through to the final. Looking at Wikipedia it appears the format difference was because that group was originally planned as a separate competition, the Winsunited Cup, but it was absorbed into the FIFA Series when its sponsorship fell through.

[BlodwynPig]

Do you think Kane might have a crack at the Winsunited Cup? or Newcastle?

[Memorex MP3]

Young talented players playing too many games seems kinda normal atm, Gavi had about 20 international games played at Mainoo's age, Bellingham was at least 10 games in, Lamine Yamal is 6 games in and is 2 years younger.

You'd need some kind of co-ordinated moves by clubs and countries to restrict the number of games.

[DrGreggles]

You'd need some kind of co-ordinated moves by clubs and countries to restrict the number of games.

Wenger was saying this 25 years ago, but everyone just hilariously called him "Arsene Whinger".
Players will be burnt out by their late 20s, and there will be people slagging their form off without considering why it has happened.

[jamiefairlie]

Wenger was saying this 25 years ago, but everyone just hilariously called him "Arsene Whinger".
Players will be burnt out by their late 20s, and there will be people slagging their form off without considering why it has happened.

They have minds and huge negotiating strength, they should tell club and country when they're going to play and when they should rest. They're rich enough to employ the best sports medicine people to optimize their long term future

[Memorex MP3]

On the international front you could probably easily implement a 12 month ban on being in underage teams if you get a senior call up. I dunno what kind of club equivalent you could do.

[DrGreggles]

Do the governing bodies still threaten to ban players for refusing to play internationals?

[Dr M1nx PhD]

Do any of our Man U posters know whether Brandon Williams has been as unlucky with injury as we've been told, or if his prolonged absence from his loan at Ipswich can be explained by his court appearance last week? The never ending knocks and setbacks he kept suffering did seem pretty weird.

[The Culture Bunker]

Do any of our Man U posters know whether Brandon Williams has been as unlucky with injury as we've been told, or if his prolonged absence from his loan at Ipswich can be explained by his court appearance last week? The never ending knocks and setbacks he kept suffering did seem pretty weird.

I had heard he'd been up to some mischief, but no real details. Real shame, as he looked a useful prospect when he broke through in 2019. Latest in a long line of defenders to have a run in the team, but then rapidly lose their way either due to injuries or the turnover in managers. See also: Cameron Borthwick-Jackson, Tim Fosu-Mensah and Axel Tuanzebe, though I see he's making his latest comeback down at Portman Road.

[Dr M1nx PhD]

I had heard he'd been up to some mischief, but no real details. Real shame, as he looked a useful prospect when he broke through in 2019. Latest in a long line of defenders to have a run in the team, but then rapidly lose their way either due to injuries or the turnover in managers. See also: Cameron Borthwick-Jackson, Tim Fosu-Mensah and Axel Tuanzebe, though I see he's making his latest comeback down at Portman Road.

Yeah, when he's played he's looked like he could be really good. But pretty much all of his appearances here were last autumn, and since then he's disappeared. We were told he's got a knock or had a setback in his recovery or that he's gone back to his parent club for treatment. Now it sounds like his head was elsewhere, given that the dangerous driving charges he was in court for on Friday date back to August.

Hopefully when the legals anre all settled he can get his career going again somewhere.

[jamiefairlie]

Spanish prosecutors want the ex-head of the country's football federation to be jailed for two-and-a-half years, after he kissed a female footballer against her will at Spain's World Cup victory.

I have mixed emotions on this. What he did was sexist and scummy and shite behaviour for sure but you see worse in every town on a Saturday night and there's no talk about those even being a crime that the police would take seriously.

At the same time there's more serious convicted sexual assault cases getting off without any kind of prison sentence.

It's a weird one and feels like there's political/opportunistic manoeuvring behind it rather than a desire for proportional punishment.

[shoulders]

Agreed, I'm not sure just how twisted you'd have to be to think that was in anyway proportionate.

[BlodwynPig]

Crushing to lopsided power dynamic. Jail the cunt

[shoulders]

Been on double-barrelled watch and noticed a few new ones in the U21s.

Do we have a full XI of janky ill-fitting surnames now?

Norton-Cuffey
Harwood-Bellis
Bynoe-Gittens
Hudson-Odoi
Fosu-Mensah
Iling-Junior
Walker-Peters
Ward-Prowse
De Cordova-Reid (plays for Jamaica but he's eligible)


Minds gone blank, please top up with more

[phantom_power]

They have minds and huge negotiating strength, they should tell club and country when they're going to play and when they should rest. They're rich enough to employ the best sports medicine people to optimize their long term future

Most players want to play though, and as often as they can. I don't think they are the best judges on how to manage their own bodies. I think one of the biggest issues with injuries this season is probably the fucking around done to accommodate the Qatar World Cup

[Hobo]

Been on double-barrelled watch and noticed a few new ones in the U21s.

Do we have a full XI of janky ill-fitting surnames now?

Norton-Cuffey
Harwood-Bellis
Bynoe-Gittens
Hudson-Odoi
Fosu-Mensah
Iling-Junior
Walker-Peters
Ward-Prowse
De Cordova-Reid (plays for Jamaica but he's eligible)


Minds gone blank, please top up with more

Just u21s?

Gibbs-White
Oxlaide-Chamberlain (is he still playing?
Alexander-Arnold
Loftus-Cheek

Or are they all too old.

[phantom_power]

The various Wright-Phillips lads

[Poobum]

Smith-Rowe
Maitland-Niles

[jamiefairlie]

Most players want to play though, and as often as they can. I don't think they are the best judges on how to manage their own bodies. I think one of the biggest issues with injuries this season is probably the fucking around done to accommodate the Qatar World Cup

That's why they need to be smart and hire experts who will manage their efforts. It's mad that with such a fragile asset as their health they and everyone else's is so cavalier with it.

[jamiefairlie]

It was a real trend in early 2000s so we'll see an uptick now. Do we have any results from when two double barrels marry each other?

[shoulders]

Yeah let's keep the barrels coming guys.

Kicked myself over forgetting Lotus-Cheek, the epitome of the English 10's footballer. An adonis who charges around not understanding that this must actually lead to something otherwise you're just a lump out of position who has done fuck all.

[Kankurette]

Dominic 'what is a goal' Calvert-Lewin
Fisayo Dele-Bashiru

[imitationleather]

Convinced these double barrel players are a conspiracy by Big Shirt to charge you more.

[Captain Z]

Jordan-Henderson